What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Observation and a Challenge for jon_mx and sho nuff (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Disclaimer.

I came down with a virus or flu last night and I feel like walking dead.

This is more forward than I usually post. I'm not sure if it's me just feeling terrible or what, but I hit a break point this morning with the forum and don't feel like I can stay quiet. And I don't want to pick on two people in particular, but I'm not sure any other way to do this.

@jon_mx and @sho nuff are two of our most prolific posters. I believe you're smart and capable and have something to say. 

I'd guess they spend at least a couple of hours a day thinking about and typing on the forum.

That's a LOT of effort to invest. 

I don't want this to be mean, but it's also my observation about 99.9% of the effort gets zero return. Because it seems like just about everything both you guys post is whining and complaining and making accusations and calling anything you disagree with blatant falsehoods. In fact, I think one could make the case your writing actually has a negative return as the never-ending "you're a troll - no YOU'RE a troll" makes the forum worse. 

Here's the thing. I don' t think it has to be this way.

And I'm wondering if you realize how much time effort and energy you're investing and getting zero return. 

I did this the other day when the Dude asked about relocating to TN and there was a guy who called Memphis a dump and then got offended when someone told him he was whining and I got involved and I wasted a good 15 minutes on him. Zero was added to the board by me. 

You two guys do this for hours a day every day. 

And again, I don't think it has to be this way. We've all seen you make real points. Clearly, you have talent to express your point. And you seem like good guys. I'd like to challenge you to stop wasting your efforts here.

I'd like to challenge you two to go a month and post positive stuff on issues with ZERO commenting on other posters. No, "they said this, they were unfair to me here, they were a troll here". I'd challenge you to pick an issue maybe not in your normal comfort zone and discuss it.

I'll pick some. 

Jon - I'd challenge you to start a thread discussing some gun control ideas we think could work and move forward with.

Sho - I'd challenge you to start a thread discussing reasonable ways to enforce border security between Mexico and the US.

Secondly, I'd challenge you both to do some real-life things with your time that think are important. Work in a soup kitchen. Advocate for voter registration. Attend a zoning meeting. Whatever. Just something that is NOT the never-ending back and forth complaining you're doing here.

What do you two say? 

Forum, what do you say?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I’ll be honest here - I think both guys are decent posters and contributed over the years but all they seem interested in doing nowadays is arguing.  I put them both on ignore because it’s tiresome reading all the arguing.  I’d love to see some actual debate and I’d take them off ignore.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
moleculo said:
Sometimes I think the argument is the point.
Click to expand...
I think you may be right. I'd be interested to hear from them.

I will say if it is their point, I hate to see people put that much time into something so unproductive. I realize full well I'm not the judge of how they spend their time. But I just hate to see effort go to waste there.

 
It is a politics forum.   I think it is what it is.   Has anyone actually changed their minds over something someone has posted in here?   I think it is ok to ask. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
And I'd ask you guys - am I off base being put off by the constant complaining and back and forth?
Click to expand...
NO!

You read my post that if you say anything remotely positive you are labeled a Trumper and things implode from there.  I am not a Trumper but at times I do see good things...I want to see good things in this country no matter who is POTUS.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joe, you're not off base at all in being irritated. We (everyone here in the PF) all know the impact the back and forth has. And I'd certainly believe that FFA and SP people shy away from entering the PF after reading a couple threads and (likely) seeing those two go at it mucking up every thread's readability.

And the thing is, I know these two have more to offer. I've hung out in the game threads all throughout these playoffs in the SP, and even in the FFA, and I actually find myself agreeing and laughing a lot with Sho posts. It's just a matter of being able to pull it back and staying in control while discussing politics. Somehow politics all make us go a little looney.

 
moleculo said:
I have.   My transformation from conservative to...I don't know, I hate to think of myself as liberal, was in large part because I found the liberal arguments more compelling.
Click to expand...
I have had the exact same conversion.  I'm not suddenly a liberal, but I did make the mental break with the conservative side to the point that now I feel free.  No longer a prisoner of my own dogma.

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
It is a politics forum.   I think it is what it is.   Has anyone actually changed their minds over something someone has posted in here?   I think it is ok to ask. 
Click to expand...
Not so much big changes in overall beliefs, but there are a few posters here sometimes post things I don't agree with, but I respect them enough to educate myself and see if I need to re-evaluate. e.g., mt, bigbottom, fish, henry, bueno loljk

 
Largely a lurker. I think this a great place for news and hot takes from smart people on both sides of any given debate.

That said I have both these posters (who may well be intelligent people) on ignore for exactly the reasons described in the OP.

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
It is a politics forum.   I think it is what it is.   Has anyone actually changed their minds over something someone has posted in here?   I think it is ok to ask. 
Click to expand...
I've changed my stance on a few issues over the years but I get why you asked the question.  It seems like the guys that post 1000 times in every thread are the ones that aren't going to ever budge on a stance and are just there to argue and push their beliefs on everyone else.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
I've changed my stance on a few issues over the years but I get why you asked the question.  It seems like the guys that post 1000 times in every thread are the ones that aren't going to ever budge on a stance and are just there to argue and push their beliefs on everyone else.
Click to expand...
I don’t think this is true of everybody. I post a lot and I change my mind a lot. I don’t think I’m unique. 

I have fun with jon mx and whining but he’s a good dude. So is Sho Nuff. As far as I’m concerned, the challenge perhaps shouldn’t be to them but instead to the multitude of other posters who seem to follow them around from thread to thread and complain about them and sometimes even report them. I mean what the heck is the point? 

We’re all here for the fun of discussion and debate right? I think some of you guys take this place way too seriously. Hope you feel better Joe. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
Forum, what do you say?
Click to expand...
I think Jon and Sho actually have a fair amount in common on the issues. If you read Jon’s posts when he talks of Trump it’s largely very critical. I’m not sure I understand why he can’t find common ground with many of the posters he’s criticizing here. I think a good exercise would be just to find points to agree on, comment on the issue (and the software permits that) and ignore the rest.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joe Bryant said:
And I'd ask you guys - am I off base being put off by the constant complaining and back and forth?
Click to expand...
I treat it as I do most posts that bring no value - I ignore and move on.  

I understand the :wall:  that must go on if you are reading and following some of the arguments back and forth - I have kids, so I understand the constant back and forth. 

But, here, I am looking to be informed and/or entertained - when a post does neither, its easy to move on.  And, as a neutral observer - I don't get put-off since I have nothing invested in the conversation.

 
timschochet said:
As far as I’m concerned, the challenge perhaps shouldn’t be to them but instead to the multitude of other posters who seem to follow them around from thread to thread and complain about them and sometimes even report them. I mean what the heck is the point? 
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:

blame the victims schtick getting old.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I think Jon and Sho actually have a fair amount in common on the issues. If you read Jon’s posts when he talks of Trump it’s largely very critical. I’m not sure I understand why he can’t find common ground with many of the posters he’s criticizing here. I think a good exercise would be just to find points to agree on, comment on the issue (and the software permits that) and ignore the rest.
Click to expand...
Jon has many posts that start out fine and should be good talking points..then the full blown swarm goes on attack and it goes right in the crapper fast.

 
Da Guru said:
Jon has many posts that start out fine and should be good talking points..then the full blown swarm goes on attack and it goes right in the crapper fast.
Click to expand...
It goes both ways, to the extent it's a problem for the forum, then just respond to his substantive points with substantive points and vice versa.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
I've changed my stance on a few issues over the years but I get why you asked the question.  It seems like the guys that post 1000 times in every thread are the ones that aren't going to ever budge on a stance and are just there to argue and push their beliefs on everyone else.
Click to expand...
There are a few things that come to mind with this post.

First - I think you are correct, and not alone.  I don't think many people are going to change minds here - either their own, or someone else.

Second - an internet forum is generally a poor place to have those kind of arguments/conversations.  The format simply does not lend itself to the kind of open and frank give and takes that would help change minds - too many people involved, and too many agendas.

Third - I can't say that I have never changed my mind here - but I am quite certain that if it happened, it was not a result of being told how wrong I was.  I think those arguments are futile.  

Fourth - I can't speak for anyone else, but I suspect very few people are here to have their minds changed - the nature of the posts is such that most are of the "My side is right, you are wrong" variety.  We talk of an "echo chamber" and I think that is what most people really want - on either side - they want that affirmation in the numbers of supporting posters.  It makes you feel good when a lot of people agree with you.

Fifth - in terms of changing minds - the best posters, without naming them, are ones who provide thought-provoking posts and/or links to legitimate sources.  There are a number of posters who fit in this category.  I try to read as many of the links that I can - but I do prioritize links by certain posters.  Telling me I am an idiot is not going to make me change my mind - telling me to read a neutral article on a subject will get me to read the content with an open mind.

 
Joe Bryant said:
Disclaimer.

I came down with a virus or flu last night and I feel like walking dead.

This is more forward than I usually post. I'm not sure if it's me just feeling terrible or what, but I hit a break point this morning with the forum and don't feel like I can stay quiet. And I don't want to pick on two people in particular, but I'm not sure any other way to do this.

@jon_mx and @sho nuff are two of our most prolific posters. I believe you're smart and capable and have something to say. 

I'd guess they spend at least a couple of hours a day thinking about and typing on the forum.

That's a LOT of effort to invest. 

I don't want this to be mean, but it's also my observation about 99.9% of the effort gets zero return. Because it seems like just about everything both you guys post is whining and complaining and making accusations and calling anything you disagree with blatant falsehoods. In fact, I think one could make the case your writing actually has a negative return as the never-ending "you're a troll - no YOU'RE a troll" makes the forum worse. 

Here's the thing. I don' t think it has to be this way.

And I'm wondering if you realize how much time effort and energy you're investing and getting zero return. 

I did this the other day when the Dude asked about relocating to TN and there was a guy who called Memphis a dump and then got offended when someone told him he was whining and I got involved and I wasted a good 15 minutes on him. Zero was added to the board by me. 

You two guys do this for hours a day every day. 

And again, I don't think it has to be this way. We've all seen you make real points. Clearly, you have talent to express your point. And you seem like good guys. I'd like to challenge you to stop wasting your efforts here.

I'd like to challenge you two to go a month and post positive stuff on issues with ZERO commenting on other posters. No, "they said this, they were unfair to me here, they were a troll here". I'd challenge you to pick an issue maybe not in your normal comfort zone and discuss it.

I'll pick some. 

Jon - I'd challenge you to start a thread discussing some gun control ideas we think could work and move forward with.

Sho - I'd challenge you to start a thread discussing reasonable ways to enforce border security between Mexico and the US.

Secondly, I'd challenge you both to do some real-life things with your time that think are important. Work in a soup kitchen. Advocate for voter registration. Attend a zoning meeting. Whatever. Just something that is NOT the never-ending back and forth complaining you're doing here.

What do you two say? 

Forum, what do you say?
Click to expand...
You’re blatantly wrong...😄  maybe sno nuff and Jon are the same person?..  that would blow everyone’s mind..

hope you feel better..

 
Sinn Fein said:
There are a few things that come to mind with this post.

First - I think you are correct, and not alone.  I don't think many people are going to change minds here - either their own, or someone else.

Second - an internet forum is generally a poor place to have those kind of arguments/conversations.  The format simply does not lend itself to the kind of open and frank give and takes that would help change minds - too many people involved, and too many agendas.

Third - I can't say that I have never changed my mind here - but I am quite certain that if it happened, it was not a result of being told how wrong I was.  I think those arguments are futile.  

Fourth - I can't speak for anyone else, but I suspect very few people are here to have their minds changed - the nature of the posts is such that most are of the "My side is right, you are wrong" variety.  We talk of an "echo chamber" and I think that is what most people really want - on either side - they want that affirmation in the numbers of supporting posters.  It makes you feel good when a lot of people agree with you.

Fifth - in terms of changing minds - the best posters, without naming them, are ones who provide thought-provoking posts and/or links to legitimate sources.  There are a number of posters who fit in this category.  I try to read as many of the links that I can - but I do prioritize links by certain posters.  Telling me I am an idiot is not going to make me change my mind - telling me to read a neutral article on a subject will get me to read the content with an open mind.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree with most of this.   :thumbup:

 
Da Guru said:
Jon has many posts that start out fine and should be good talking points..then the full blown swarm goes on attack and it goes right in the crapper fast.
Click to expand...


SaintsInDome2006 said:
It goes both ways, to the extent it's a problem for the forum, then just respond to his substantive points with substantive points and vice versa.
Click to expand...
Sure it goes both ways, but you know the current makeup of this forum and I have yet to find a good way to deal with the swarm.  

 
jon_mx said:
Sure it goes both ways, but you know the current makeup of this forum and I have yet to find a good way to deal with the swarm.  
Click to expand...
 When a victim stumbles on a forum that houses a Swarm and disturbs it with a message that runs counter to its prevailing ideology, the Swarm will erupt without warning. Taken one at a time the irrelevant, often mindless attacks by individuals in a Swarm can be crushed or easily brushed aside, but because of the sheer volume of the assault even the strongest Warriors must yield. WARNING: Only those who are highly skilled in Swarm management techniques should attempt to wade into a Swarm hive. Protective clothing will not prevent even a seasoned  Warrior from getting a few stings.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
jon_mx said:
Sure it goes both ways, but you know the current makeup of this forum and I have yet to find a good way to deal with the swarm.  




 
Click to expand...
I gave you one. Start a thread posting about common sense gun control and make yourself a rule that under no circumstances, will you complain about the other posters or the forum here. Like you just did above.

 
Joe Bryant said:
I gave you one. Start a thread posting about common sense gun control and make yourself a rule that under no circumstances, will you complain about the other posters or the forum here. Like you just did above.
Click to expand...
I still say there's a decent chance this is all just jon playing us. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
Disclaimer.

I came down with a virus or flu last night and I feel like walking dead.

This is more forward than I usually post. I'm not sure if it's me just feeling terrible or what, but I hit a break point this morning with the forum and don't feel like I can stay quiet. And I don't want to pick on two people in particular, but I'm not sure any other way to do this.

@jon_mx and @sho nuff are two of our most prolific posters. I believe you're smart and capable and have something to say. 

I'd guess they spend at least a couple of hours a day thinking about and typing on the forum.

That's a LOT of effort to invest. 

I don't want this to be mean, but it's also my observation about 99.9% of the effort gets zero return. Because it seems like just about everything both you guys post is whining and complaining and making accusations and calling anything you disagree with blatant falsehoods. In fact, I think one could make the case your writing actually has a negative return as the never-ending "you're a troll - no YOU'RE a troll" makes the forum worse. 

Here's the thing. I don' t think it has to be this way.

And I'm wondering if you realize how much time effort and energy you're investing and getting zero return. 

I did this the other day when the Dude asked about relocating to TN and there was a guy who called Memphis a dump and then got offended when someone told him he was whining and I got involved and I wasted a good 15 minutes on him. Zero was added to the board by me. 

You two guys do this for hours a day every day. 

And again, I don't think it has to be this way. We've all seen you make real points. Clearly, you have talent to express your point. And you seem like good guys. I'd like to challenge you to stop wasting your efforts here.

I'd like to challenge you two to go a month and post positive stuff on issues with ZERO commenting on other posters. No, "they said this, they were unfair to me here, they were a troll here". I'd challenge you to pick an issue maybe not in your normal comfort zone and discuss it.

I'll pick some. 

Jon - I'd challenge you to start a thread discussing some gun control ideas we think could work and move forward with.

Sho - I'd challenge you to start a thread discussing reasonable ways to enforce border security between Mexico and the US.

Secondly, I'd challenge you both to do some real-life things with your time that think are important. Work in a soup kitchen. Advocate for voter registration. Attend a zoning meeting. Whatever. Just something that is NOT the never-ending back and forth complaining you're doing here.

What do you two say? 

Forum, what do you say?
Click to expand...
I believe we have already accepted one challenge.

I will start the thread you asked for...as to what I do real in my life...I would say its a bit over the line trying to push that and single out people as you don't know what we already do in our lives.  Im very involved in my daughter's school and with both son and daughter's boy scouts and girls scouts (when Im not taxi for my son in his winter drum line)...as well as various activities through the church.  I get what you are trying to do...but maybe that is a challenge for everyone rather than singling out two people who may not get along.

I have no problem saying be nicer...I have no problem starting such a thread...and I will definitely follow the challenge from the other thread with the falsehood thing.  I did post that a lot and have already scaled back.  I still contend some check and balance was needed to people making what appeared to be false claims and repeatedly doing so after the truth had been shown...but I get how annoying it can be...so fine...its done.

 
KarmaPolice said:
I have changed my stances on a few things from posts and ideas in here.  

Why would people engage in a political discussion if their mind is 100% made up? 
Click to expand...
I too have learned quite a bit by reading things that post here.  It helps because people do come from a different point of view and read different sources allowing me to read things I may have missed elsewhere.

 
These guys just can't help themselves.  They're convinced they can change people's minds despite significant evidence to the contrary.  Ultimately they just need to 'let it go' and get comfortable with the other(s) who don't see it their way.  

This goes beyond the two singled out here.  Why many of us respond to people like Noonan as though we've got the magic point that will make things click is beyond reason.  

 
Snorkelson said:
Hmm the guys that post non stop aren’t chiming in? Maybe I should see if their threads are started...
Click to expand...
Sorry, its Sunday morning...I was making my family breakfast, making sure my kids were ready and attending Sunday service....then making sure all carpool plans for 2 different schools and mutliple activities were covered among multiple families.  The joy of having a middle schooler and high schooler who do lots of stuff.

 
sho nuff said:
I believe we have already accepted one challenge.

I will start the thread you asked for...as to what I do real in my life...I would say its a bit over the line trying to push that and single out people as you don't know what we already do in our lives.  Im very involved in my daughter's school and with both son and daughter's boy scouts and girls scouts (when Im not taxi for my son in his winter drum line)...as well as various activities through the church.  I get what you are trying to do...but maybe that is a challenge for everyone rather than singling out two people who may not get along.

I have no problem saying be nicer...I have no problem starting such a thread...and I will definitely follow the challenge from the other thread with the falsehood thing.  I did post that a lot and have already scaled back.  I still contend some check and balance was needed to people making what appeared to be false claims and repeatedly doing so after the truth had been shown...but I get how annoying it can be...so fine...its done.
Click to expand...
Cool. Thanks. And for sure, no idea what you're currently doing in real life. I would challenge you to take some of the energy spent here going back and forth with the arguing non stop into something productive in  real life. Add to too what you're already doing. 

Thanks.

And I'm sorry if this sounded mean. I just think you guys have potential and I hate to see so much time invested in something that returns nearly nothing. Thanks.

 
Captain Cranks said:
These guys just can't help themselves.  They're convinced they can change people's minds despite significant evidence to the contrary.  Ultimately they just need to 'let it go' and get comfortable with the other(s) who don't see it their way.  

This goes beyond the two singled out here.  Why many of us respond to people like Noonan as though we've got the magic point that will make things click is beyond reason.  
Click to expand...
One of my flaws...is I do tend to take people at their words.  When they post here, I have always fallen for what many call fishing...and responded.  I do enjoy the debate...I enjoy posting my side and doing my best to support it.  I do also have a problem with the lies (part of what fuels my distaste for this president over others...is the repeating things that have shown to been lies and continuing to do it...that is where the blatant falsehood thing has come from).

 
Joe Bryant said:
Cool. Thanks. And for sure, no idea what you're currently doing in real life. I would challenge you to take some of the energy spent here going back and forth with the arguing non stop into something productive in  real life. Add to too what you're already doing. 

Thanks.

And I'm sorry if this sounded mean. I just think you guys have potential and I hate to see so much time invested in something that returns nearly nothing. Thanks.
Click to expand...
I don't think it sounds mean...I get the style and snark can rub many the wrong way.

I think my energy is spent elsewhere...when Im hear its more relaxing and blowing off steam moreso than really using energy.

 
sho nuff said:
One of my flaws...is I do tend to take people at their words.  When they post here, I have always fallen for what many call fishing...and responded.  I do enjoy the debate...I enjoy posting my side and doing my best to support it.  I do also have a problem with the lies (part of what fuels my distaste for this president over others...is the repeating things that have shown to been lies and continuing to do it...that is where the blatant falsehood thing has come from).




1
Click to expand...
This was likely a bad idea on my part.

 
Joe Bryant said:
This was likely a bad idea on my part.
Click to expand...
No...as I said...I am pushing that back...Im saying this is a problem I have had...its something that annoys me in a way (as I have often said, I don't take the board personally and stuff like that...I don't get all bent out of shape or actually upset...its a place to blow off steam)...but that is something I have let it irk me a bit more than it should.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Joe Bryant
Please Read - Big Change For The Forum - Asking For Your Grace - Forum Offline 8/1
2
Replies
73
Views
2K
eoMMan
E
Memphis Foundry
  • Locked
  • Sticky
The Politics Forum Is CLOSED.
Replies
0
Views
3K
Memphis Foundry
Memphis Foundry
Joe Bryant
Your Response Speech To President Biden's State Of The Union
Replies
0
Views
216
Joe Bryant
Joe Bryant

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top