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Hamilton Tiger Cats 37 Buffalo Bills 21.... (1 Viewer)

Z

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
....that was in 1961.

I'm thinking that is the only time a CFL team beat a USA team, might be one more. 

Yes the leagues (NFL also) did play some preseason games back in the day.

In at least one game it was CFL rules the first half/USA rules the second half.  Loved to have seen that. Not sure what field they played on.

I was checking out the career of Terry Metcalf, we see a three season..........nothing....then Redskins, that got me thinking, then I remembered he did play a few seasons of CFL ball. Which reminded me of that above.

Funny thing about that Bills thing, was the greatest player they had in those AFL years was a former CFL star....Cookie Gilchrist...the first 1000 yard rusher in AFL history.

Can't talk CFL and not mention George Reed, he was their Jim Brown, still is actually from an historical perspective.  He was out of Washington State where he did little. Totally different situation in the CFL.  How he stayed in the CFL all those years?  The NFL had to have come calling.

Getting back to Metcalf, he had over a dozen runs of 50 yards or longer over 8000 yards rushing/receiving,, over 4000 yards returning kicks, and over50TD's. Held at least three NFL records. Yet, no Hall of Fame.

I do wonder how the CFL champs would fare vs an Alabama, a Clemson, hell.....pre Mayfield Browns.

George Reed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ept6okXOO58

Terry Metcalf (worth another look)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMddevnDyb0

The amazing Pinball Clemons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fATfScdWdnc

Gizmo Williams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngO4n6miSgY

 
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My favorite line on fantasy projects about a college team beating the worst NFL team or a top CFL team is every starter or key back up going to play on the NFL team or CFL.  Usually I can point out a few spots on the college team where guys can't make an NFL practice squad or quit football after college. On the pro teams every player would at least be key backup on the college team.  So no Alabama couldn't beat a woeful NFL team or a top notch CFL team.

 
Also the AFL in general wasn't as good as the NFL as many journeyman NFL players went on to star in AFL and the salary gap between the CFL and the AFL/NFL wasn't as extreme in that era as it is now.

 
Csonka4life said:
My favorite line on fantasy projects about a college team beating the worst NFL team or a top CFL team is every starter or key back up going to play on the NFL team or CFL.  Usually I can point out a few spots on the college team where guys can't make an NFL practice squad or quit football after college. On the pro teams every player would at least be key backup on the college team.  So no Alabama couldn't beat a woeful NFL team or a top notch CFL team.
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Trust me, Alabama would destroy the best CFL team if they played American rules. 

 
If the CFL players trained for 4 down football, I doubt it, for the reasons I stated before.  Every CFL player was an all conference player, one weakness is the import ratio, but Alabama has guys who can't play football beyond the low minor league beer league level.  How many Alabama Saban era lineman have been total busts, Trent Richardson has found his level and its a productive CFL player.  The Alabama field goal kicker alone would be weak spot if the game was tight.

 
The Saints have drafted two good D-linemen in recent years, Akeem Hicks and David Onyemata, out of Canadian college programs. I’m guessing a few other teams have as well.

But there haven’t been many CFL players who have made it in the CFL before ever going to the NFL, the only ones I can think of are Warren Moon and Joe Theisman. Even Flutie Orange finally played some time in the NFL. Vince Feragamo made it to the Super Bowl But he want exactly a very good QB. Eugene Goodlow played for a while with the Saints but then returned to  the CFL. I dunno, seems like there should be more.

 
Csonka4life said:
If the CFL players trained for 4 down football, I doubt it, for the reasons I stated before.  Every CFL player was an all conference player, one weakness is the import ratio, but Alabama has guys who can't play football beyond the low minor league beer league level.  How many Alabama Saban era lineman have been total busts, Trent Richardson has found his level and its a productive CFL player.  The Alabama field goal kicker alone would be weak spot if the game was tight.
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And what about the strongest players?  How many players from Alabama are good enough to MAKE an NFL roster?  Probably 15? (12 were drafted last year, and that's just the draft eligible players... more would be if there were no rules) How many from the top CFL team?  Probably 0.  The players up here are really not even in the same discussion as NFL players.  It's literally every CFL all-stars dream to be good enough to even ride the bench in the NFL.

 
Csonka4life said:
My favorite line on fantasy projects about a college team beating the worst NFL team or a top CFL team is every starter or key back up going to play on the NFL team or CFL.  Usually I can point out a few spots on the college team where guys can't make an NFL practice squad or quit football after college. On the pro teams every player would at least be key backup on the college team.  So no Alabama couldn't beat a woeful NFL team or a top notch CFL team.
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I do have doubts Bama could hang with any NFL team  but not so sure about a  CFL team.  Why you so confident there?

 
Csonka4life said:
Also the AFL in general wasn't as good as the NFL as many journeyman NFL players went on to star in AFL and the salary gap between the CFL and the AFL/NFL wasn't as extreme in that era as it is now.
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An AFL All Star team even in 60 could have  been competitive in the NFL.  The HUGE difference was depth.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
The Saints have drafted two good D-linemen in recent years, Akeem Hicks and David Onyemata, out of Canadian college programs. I’m guessing a few other teams have as well.

But there haven’t been many CFL players who have made it in the CFL before ever going to the NFL, the only ones I can think of are Warren Moon and Joe Theisman. Even Flutie Orange finally played some time in the NFL. Vince Feragamo made it to the Super Bowl But he want exactly a very good QB. Eugene Goodlow played for a while with the Saints but then returned to  the CFL. I dunno, seems like there should be more.
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Joe Horn who came to the Saints a former CFLer.

Niner QB Jeff Gatcia started out in Canada.

Rocket Ismail, first stop CFL.

Hall of Fame fullback John Henry Johnson started out in the CFL, but only played one season.

Been a few others.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
The whole game was CFL rules, it was played in Hamilton.
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Wasn't talking about that game.

Here it is...

It wasn’t until August 12th, 1950 that the two leagues came together again, this time in Ottawa, as the Rough Riders hosted the New York Giants. The game was played with two sets of rules, Canadian in the first half, American in the second. Unfortunately for the 11,000 home fans, the Giants rolled the Rough Riders, cruising to a 27-6 victory.

 
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I have always thought one of the really dumb things the NFL does is the combine. Why they go that route is a total..?  You have to love contact, love the game, make sacrifices to play the game. I'd want guys who follow the game, can talk football.  Guys who ...."sorry baby, but not tonight, need my rest, big game tomorrow"....yep, dedication, that's serious dedication.

Way too much is put into numbers, size, speed, jumping. Not enought into want, need, care about the game.

Zeno...who was Jerry Rice?

Kid....the greatest WR ever, a legend.

This is good,

Zeno...who was Jerry Rice?
 

Kid....ah...well...hmm?

Not good.

Started thinking about the kinds of players the CFL gets.

 
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Deamon said:
And what about the strongest players?  How many players from Alabama are good enough to MAKE an NFL roster?  Probably 15? (12 were drafted last year, and that's just the draft eligible players... more would be if there were no rules) How many from the top CFL team?  Probably 0.  The players up here are really not even in the same discussion as NFL players.  It's literally every CFL all-stars dream to be good enough to even ride the bench in the NFL.
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Alabama will usually have 25ish 30ish players at all times who will be drafted, meaning non starters now waiting their turn.

 
One of those football mysteries.....Andrew Hopkins.

While at Stephen F. Austin College in Texas he ran the 100 yards sprint 9.2, the WR....9.1.

CFL achievements

Andy Hopkins was a three-time Eastern All-Star and twice cracked the magical 1,000-yard mark in rushing in his five-year CFL career. Hopkins broke into the CFL with Hamilton in 1973 and lead the East in rushing with 1223 yards to get his first East All-Star honor. In 1974, Hopkins fell just short of the 1,000-yard club as his average carry took a plunge from 5.5 down to 4.1 but his 943 yards and 42 receptions earned him his second Eastern All-Star award. Injuries limited Hopkins to just 463 yards in 8 games in 1975. Hopkins joined the Montreal Alouttes in 1976 and bounced back for his second 1,000 yards season with 1075 yards and a career high 43 pass receptions to capture his third Eastern All-Star award. In 1975, Hopkins appeared in only 5 games and had 218 yards rushing. Hopkins finished his career with 3922 yards rushing.

CFL All Time Rushing List (Hamilton Tiger-Cats)

CFL Most Rushing Yards-Season (Andy Hopkins, RB);

CFL All Time Rusher (1,000 yard rushers) 1976

CFL All Time All Stars (Montreal Alouettes) Andy Hopkins; 1976

CFL Record Single Season Rushing (Andy Hopkins) 1973

CFL Record Career Carries; 552 (Andy Hopkins); 1973

CFL Record Single Season Carries; 232 (Andy Hopkins) 1973 &1974

He did get a look by the Oilers, but...????  That was before his CFL days.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
The Saints have drafted two good D-linemen in recent years, Akeem Hicks and David Onyemata, out of Canadian college programs. I’m guessing a few other teams have as well.

But there haven’t been many CFL players who have made it in the CFL before ever going to the NFL, the only ones I can think of are Warren Moon and Joe Theisman. Even Flutie Orange finally played some time in the NFL. Vince Feragamo made it to the Super Bowl But he want exactly a very good QB. Eugene Goodlow played for a while with the Saints but then returned to  the CFL. I dunno, seems like there should be more.
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Cameron Wake?

 
ZenoRazon said:
One of those football mysteries.....Andrew Hopkins.

While at Stephen F. Austin College in Texas he ran the 100 yards sprint 9.2, the WR....9.1.

CFL achievements

Andy Hopkins was a three-time Eastern All-Star and twice cracked the magical 1,000-yard mark in rushing in his five-year CFL career. Hopkins broke into the CFL with Hamilton in 1973 and lead the East in rushing with 1223 yards to get his first East All-Star honor. In 1974, Hopkins fell just short of the 1,000-yard club as his average carry took a plunge from 5.5 down to 4.1 but his 943 yards and 42 receptions earned him his second Eastern All-Star award. Injuries limited Hopkins to just 463 yards in 8 games in 1975. Hopkins joined the Montreal Alouttes in 1976 and bounced back for his second 1,000 yards season with 1075 yards and a career high 43 pass receptions to capture his third Eastern All-Star award. In 1975, Hopkins appeared in only 5 games and had 218 yards rushing. Hopkins finished his career with 3922 yards rushing.

CFL All Time Rushing List (Hamilton Tiger-Cats)

CFL Most Rushing Yards-Season (Andy Hopkins, RB);

CFL All Time Rusher (1,000 yard rushers) 1976

CFL All Time All Stars (Montreal Alouettes) Andy Hopkins; 1976

CFL Record Single Season Rushing (Andy Hopkins) 1973

CFL Record Career Carries; 552 (Andy Hopkins); 1973

CFL Record Single Season Carries; 232 (Andy Hopkins) 1973 &1974

He did get a look by the Oilers, but...????  That was before his CFL days.
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Again, because CFL players aren't near as good as NFL.  The BEST player in the CFL would LOVE to be the WORST player in the NFL.  What are you missing here... competition is a joke in the CFL.

 
ZenoRazon said:
Alabama will usually have 25ish 30ish players at all times who will be drafted, meaning non starters now waiting their turn.
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Exactly.  And how many members of the best team in the CFL would be drafted?  0... MAYBE 1.

So yes, Alabama's current team having 25-30 NFL caliber players to the Stampeders' 0-1 is a MASSIVE difference.  Even if they're not matured and peaked yet, that number is far too staggering to ignore.

 
Deamon said:
Again, because CFL players aren't near as good as NFL.  The BEST player in the CFL would LOVE to be the WORST player in the NFL.  What are you missing here... competition is a joke in the CFL.
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Did you miss...

Not sure about destroy, but can see something very competitive.

???

I can see Bama on a par with any CFL team.

 
ZenoRazon said:
Did you miss...

Not sure about destroy, but can see something very competitive.

???

I can see Bama on a par with any CFL team.
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The fact that you are saying 'competitive' or 'on par' is the issue.  Bama would destroy the best cfl team.  They have 30 NFL caliber players on their current squad.  Stampeders have 1.  That is not "on par".

Trust me, I've been to many CFL games... the talent level isn't even close.  Bama would embarrass the Grey Cup Champions if they played American rules.  The rules are incredibly different.

 
Deamon said:
The fact that you are saying 'competitive' or 'on par' is the issue.  Bama would destroy the best cfl team.  They have 30 NFL caliber players on their current squad.  Stampeders have 1.  That is not "on par".

Trust me, I've been to many CFL games... the talent level isn't even close.  Bama would embarrass the Grey Cup Champions if they played American rules.  The rules are incredibly different.
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And the CFL team has grown men with far more experience. That can't be ignored,  Alabama has kids, talented and all but still kids

I've also seen a lot of CFL games there is nothing that has Bama beating up/destroying the CFL Best.

You are misunderstanding that 30 NFLers for a Bama team.  Only about 8-10 actually playing this season the others are sitting on benchs waiting their turn in the future.

 
ZenoRazon said:
And the CFL team has grown men with far more experience. That can't be ignored,  Alabama has kids, talented and all but still kids

I've also seen a lot of CFL games there is nothing that has Bama beating up/destroying the CFL Best.

You are misunderstanding that 30 NFLers for a Bama team.  Only about 8-10 actually playing this season the others are sitting on benchs waiting their turn in the future.
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I didn't ignore the grown men aspect.. in fact I brought it up.  If you just took the Calgary Stampeders, and took them all back to their college days and put that team against Bama, it would be something like a 80-10 final score... no?  A college team made fully of players who won't play in the NFL... I'd assume it would be quite the beat down.

Given the fact that they are grown men, and some have more strength than the college kids, I'd bridge that 70 point spread down in half to 30.  That's not competitive.

 
Deamon said:
I didn't ignore the grown men aspect.. in fact I brought it up.  If you just took the Calgary Stampeders, and took them all back to their college days and put that team against Bama, it would be something like a 80-10 final score... no?  A college team made fully of players who won't play in the NFL... I'd assume it would be quite the beat down.

Given the fact that they are grown men, and some have more strength than the college kids, I'd bridge that 70 point spread down in half to 30.  That's not competitive.
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Now you are asking me to do some serious homework, something very time consuming, I'll pass on that.

Bottom line is this...

College All Star teams have beaten the NFL Champions before, actually happened a couple times.  CFL teams have beaten AFL/NFL teams before, small schools have beaten powerhouse NCAA teams before.

An all black Tennessee HS played a whole season never allowing any opponet across the 50 yard line.

A team of pro athletes who have age/experience on their side are going to take a "massive whipping" from some college kids.....nay~~~~

 
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ZenoRazon said:
Now you are asking me to do some serious homework, something very time consuming, I'll pass on that.

Bottom line is this...

Colege All Star teams have beaten the NFL Champions before, actually happened a couple times.  CFL teams have beaten AFL/NFL teams before, small schools have beaten powerhouse NCAA teams before.

An all black Tennessee HS played a whole season never allowing any opponet across the 50 yard line.

A team of pro athletes who have age/experience on their side are going to take a "massive whipping" from some college kids.....nay~~~~
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I know you're caught up in the ancient history of the game, but things are different now.  Contracts are huge, scout teams are more in depth and good players don't fall through the cracks as much.  I'm assuming a lot more CFL games are watched by talent scouts now than they were 50 years ago.  Now, if a cfl player is good enough to even SNIFF an nfl roster, he goes.  The talent up here is very bad.

 
Deamon said:
I know you're caught up in the ancient history of the game, but things are different now.  Contracts are huge, scout teams are more in depth and good players don't fall through the cracks as much.  I'm assuming a lot more CFL games are watched by talent scouts now than they were 50 years ago.  Now, if a cfl player is good enough to even SNIFF an nfl roster, he goes.  The talent up here is very bad.
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I've been here with you, I know todays pro football, I know how it works....AND....the history.

Who has peaked out at 22?  My 28 year old self would have kicked my 22 year old self up and down the street.  A bunch of 22 year olds vs guys pushing 30 with a family, bills, is going to be intimidated by some kids? Come on man. 

A 28 year old has been playing football for how long compared to a kid still in college?

YES a Bama team has speed, size but let's not get carried away here.  They will be less experienced, noway near as mean. CFLers go up against grown men week in and week out that can't be said about Alabama.

I;m not going to agree with you that .....hell Bama would kill them, a wipe out....I don't see that at all.  I can see a 32-22ish type game.

Have a big bad college kid walk into a bar thinking he's big and bad,   trust me, that won't last long.

 
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Lol Canadian rules is so different 
 

ANY NCAA team would get completely destroyed, it wouldn’t even be close at Canadian rules

ricky williams 1,000 yard rusher before and after CFL, completely useless in Canada dead last in yards per carry.

Not only would an NCAA team not win at Canadian rules neither would an NFL team

the one yard line of scrimmage in the CFL is VASTLY different than the one foot line of scrimmage for those big sumo wrestler linemen that get 40 second breaks in between, CFLs 20 second play clock on a larger field would kind of put all those NFL linemen on oxygen masks by the 4th quarter

NCAA would be a complete blowout, half of every CFL team is Canadian and many of them make offence over NCAA players, like Andrew Harris one, the leagues by far best running back, killing guys from NCAA every season and he never even playee NCAA, he played Canadian Junior Football and he schools NCAA guys every week

and btw the AFL is basically the AFC 

also this was the ONLY game that used CFL rules all game. The rest were hybrid rules that heavily favored american riles ball also i mean Bears even at that at 8-6 could barely squeake out of the Canadian half against 4-7-1 Montreal, was 9-7 Chicago in the Canadian half but Montreal scored the only TD and they were a dead last CFL team lol youd think going by whats said in here that Bears wouldve destroyed even at CFL rules but they couldn’t even score a TD against a DEAD LAST CFL TEAM THAT WAS 4-7-1

anytime bring an NFL team up and any CFL team will wipe the floor with the super bowl champions at Canadian rules, won’t even be close

 
vanhalendlrband said:
anytime bring an NFL team up and any CFL team will wipe the floor with the super bowl champions at Canadian rules, won’t even be close
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This is ridiculous.  The Chiefs would absolutely Demolish the BC Lions even at Canadian rules.  The fact that you think the BC Lions would wipe the floor with the Chiefs is madness.  It doesn't matter the rules, the players are SO much bigger and stronger.  Let's see ANY db guard Tyreke Hill when he gets a RUNNING START.  A CFL D-line (fully made of guys who only dream of making an NFL roster one day) would have zero time to get to Mahomes and he would just fling the ball all over the oversized field like it was a playground game.

You join FBG and your first post is bumping a year old thread on the CFL.. did you purposely come looking for CFL threads?  Not even sure how you found this one just scrolling 10 pages deep for your first fbg post.   Pretty sure you play in the CFL :P

 
ZenoRazon said:
I'm thinking that is the only time a CFL team beat a USA team, might be one more. 
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You are correct sir - Winnipeg Blue Bombers beat the Columbus Bullies in '41. Was a three game series, and not clear if all games were played by CFL or NFL rules but at least one game -- the one the Bombers won -- was by CFL rules.

Deamon said:
Trust me, Alabama would destroy the best CFL team if they played American rules. 
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vanhalendlrband said:
ANY NCAA team would get completely destroyed, it wouldn’t even be close at Canadian rules
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Man the absolutism in here is off the charts, and little off-putting IMO. 

There are a lot of variables at play. Because of the rule set, teams are built differently in terms of personnel and makeup. And rules that the game is played by matters -- if played by CFL rules, some of the best CFL teams would give even NFL teams some fits. At the college level, more so.

Another point about rules and team make-up -- there are particular rules in play in the CFL about ensuring that a percentage of players are Canadian (I think it's 21 guys out of 44 dressed and 46 overall) -- that alone is going to dilute the talent pool out of the gate.

NCAA not only benefits from an extraordinarily rich national high school program network, but both high school and college programs look for the best of the best internationally. If you are a football stud in Canada in high school with aspiration for the pros, you aren't staying in the Great White North, you are going to the US for school -- even high school -- to up your chances of being recruited by college programs and scouted by the NFL.

I think the point about size/age between US college and CFL also may come into play -- likely much less so at the top tier Div 1 schools -- but you see guys coming into the NFL and gaining mass all the time. I don't have the research or data to back me up, but assume that's because a body between the ages of 17-21 are physiologically different than guys who are 22+ (avg age in the CFL in 2015 was 27). Logically, if college players could add mass at 19/20, they would be doing it at the college level to up chances of getting to the pros.

Probably tons of other variables to think through, but I'm usually a long poster and this post is already

It's an interesting debate, but I think it's fair to say that:

  • The best CFL teams would have a better chance at beating the worst NFL team regardless of rules
  • The best NFL team would have zero problem crushing a CFL team, regardless of rules
  • A CFL team has a better chance at beating even a top tier NCAA program, more so if the game is played by CFL rules
  • A top tier college team would have a better chance at beating a CFL team if played by college/NFL rules
I couldn't even start to place probabilities on these however.

 
Anyone want to assign pointspeads?  CFL rules/field, NCAA rules/field, NFL rules/field.  Current champ of each.

All on neutral site somewhere in Australia.

 
Great. Is Zeno back? Missed that guy and all his rambling, borderline psychotic ramblings about track and sports history ephemera of interest to few but him. 

 
rockaction said:
Great. Is Zeno back? Missed that guy and all his rambling, borderline psychotic ramblings about track and sports history ephemera of interest to few but him. 
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Nope luckily he hasn't caught wind of this thread getting bumped.  Unless the old man forgot his password and created vanhalenguy just to come and say some more things in this thread.  Quite possible.

 
Leroy Hoard said:
Anyone want to assign pointspeads?  CFL rules/field, NCAA rules/field, NFL rules/field.  Current champ of each.

All on neutral site somewhere in Australia.
Click to expand...
CFL Field/Rules:  Winnipeg @ Kansas City -31
NFL Field/Rules:  Winnipeg @ Kansas City -55
CFL Field/Rules:  Winnipeg @ LSU - 14
NFL Field/Rules:  Winnipeg @ LSU - 22

Let's say each team dresses 45 players (avg between CFL and NFL)
KC Players that are good enough to currently play in the NFL= 45
LSU players that are good enough to currently play in the NFL= 20 (14 drafted this year and let's say 6 of the under-age players would have been drafted if they were allowed this year)
CFL players that are good enough to currently play in the NFL= 0

I don't think CFL rules really favour them that much.  Not sure if anyone knows the full CFL rules, but can you even IMAGINE Tyreke Hill getting a full RUNNING START as the DB has to stand still before the snap?  I don't even know how any CFL team would remotely stop that.  The OL would completely maul the D-line and you'd have Mahomes with 5-10 seconds to find speedy WR's/TE's that had running starts on slower/smaller DB's that aren't even good enough for an NFL practice squad.  It would be ugly.
 

 
Bracie Smathers said:
He said he was an older gent and he hasn't posted since last June so hope he's doing OK.
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He did say that, and I empathized and sympathized with him a lot at first, but his presentation was so far off as to have me disbelieve his backstory. And I don't do that lightly on the internet. I generally believe there's stuff we can never account for that is indeed truth and earnestness. He just didn't seem to have those qualities, let's just say.

 
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rockaction said:
He did say that, and I empathized and sympathized with him a lot at first, but his presentation was so far off as to have me disbelieve his backstory.
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I had many go-rounds with him in the Kyler Murray thread where... well he said he would come back to admit he was wrong about Kyler since he felt he would bust. 

I tend to take people at face value so I wasn't looking for holes in his backstory so I hope he's OK.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
I had many go-rounds with him in the Kyler Murray thread where... well he said he would come back to admit he was wrong about Kyler since he felt he would bust. 

I tend to take people at face value so I wasn't looking for holes in his backstory so I hope he's OK.
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Yeah, I hope whoever it is is okay, actually.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
He said he was an older gent and he hasn't posted since last June so hope he's doing OK.
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Agreed.   Doesn't take away from the fact he was one of the more annoying posters I've encountered here.  More than half the threads on page 1 would be his threads about stuff no one else would care about discussing.  When I get older and can retire I hope I can find better hobbies than spending 75% of my time on the internet.  

 
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