barackdhouse
Footballguy
I'm definitely talking myself into him in the early mid 2nd. If there isn't some great value that drops out of the 1st.
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RB Devin Singletary, NYG (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
battlestar
Footballguy
I say do it if you can, I got him at 2.3 in a 14 team super flex and am pumped to see what he can do. Kind of a luxury pick for me so can be patient to see if he takes over toward the end of the year into next year. Really like the fit and surroundings with two backs he’s been compared to to learn from and work with.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
I'm not comparing them as players, but just looked at the first couple pages of another back's thread and thought it was worth revisiting our ability to scout rb talent as a community.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Which brings me back to the enigma that is devin singletary. Bell's 3 cone drill was about half a second faster than singletary and he was 25 pounds heavier. Maybe we should have been wowed by Bell's combine stats. Maybe we should hate singletary's.
Or maybe bell succeeded because he's patient and has great vision, which are traits Singletary definitely showed in college, and a big part of why Beane drafted him.
I don't think singletary has Bell's upside, but maybe Mccoy's is attainable? Or maybe he's another paul perkins, elusive in college, but lacking the power to succeed in the nfl without good blocking.
Or maybe bell succeeded because he's patient and has great vision, which are traits Singletary definitely showed in college, and a big part of why Beane drafted him.
I don't think singletary has Bell's upside, but maybe Mccoy's is attainable? Or maybe he's another paul perkins, elusive in college, but lacking the power to succeed in the nfl without good blocking.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Pretty much this. Many, myself included, should have taken what Bell did that offseason more seriously. Maybe we would have seen this coming. I was stuck on the tape and the tape was very ordinary. Singletary's kinda the opposite. Bell's able to use his patience as an asset because of his physical traits. It's a thin line though. If you don't have those traits then you're going to get swallowed up before going anywhere.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Bell ran a 4.6 40. His 3 cone was very good at 6.75 but after cutting weight for the combine people expected him to improve his 40.
Singletary probably tried to add weight for the combine, at 5 foot 7 and a half inches, weighing in at 199 lbs would have hurt his stock more than a slow 40. He didn't get a chance to improve at his pro day because he got hurt on his first 40 attempt. So he may be "better than his numbers" in that sense.
MAC_32
Footballguy
A 4.6 40 at his size is fine. That's all testing should be. Confirming he's not below certain thresh holds. "People" over rate the 40 - always have, always will. Take note of the extremes, but anything in between may not mean nothing but damn close to it. In Bell's case, the 3 cone is where I messed up.
bostonfred
Footballguy
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/devonta-freeman?id=2543583
Devonta Freeman is considered a comp but even that may be optimistic.
Freeman
40 YARD DASH: 4.58 SEC
VERTICAL JUMP: 31.5 INCH
BROAD JUMP: 118.0 INCH
3 CONE DRILL: 7.11 SEC
20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.26 SEC
Singletary
Combine Results
40 Yard Dash 4.66 (unofficial)
Bench Press 15 REPS
Vertical Jump 35.0
Broad Jump 117.0
3 Cone Drill 7.32
20 Yd Shuttle 4.4
They're almost identical in size - about 3 lbs and half an inch in official measurements. Stylistically they're similar but freeman played on a much better team and was a better receiver coming out. Singletary has some receiving but his offensive line was horrendous. Both struggled at times against top competition. Singletary averaged 4 yards a carry against oklahoma but if you watch the cut up that's about 5 ypc more than he should have had.
Devonta Freeman is considered a comp but even that may be optimistic.
Freeman
40 YARD DASH: 4.58 SEC
VERTICAL JUMP: 31.5 INCH
BROAD JUMP: 118.0 INCH
3 CONE DRILL: 7.11 SEC
20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.26 SEC
Singletary
Combine Results
40 Yard Dash 4.66 (unofficial)
Bench Press 15 REPS
Vertical Jump 35.0
Broad Jump 117.0
3 Cone Drill 7.32
20 Yd Shuttle 4.4
They're almost identical in size - about 3 lbs and half an inch in official measurements. Stylistically they're similar but freeman played on a much better team and was a better receiver coming out. Singletary has some receiving but his offensive line was horrendous. Both struggled at times against top competition. Singletary averaged 4 yards a carry against oklahoma but if you watch the cut up that's about 5 ypc more than he should have had.
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
That 3 cone is downright awful.....
bostonfred
Footballguy
Exactly. So how do you reconcile that 3 cone with this?
https://youtu.be/kOBVfak4vk8
Maybe he just sucks at track, or had a bad combine because he'd been trying to add weight or something. It's not like his tape looks good because of his good blocking, but maybe it's the poor defense?
Here he is against Oklahoma this year. He looked credible considering they lost 63 to 14. 18 carries for 69 yards and a touchdown. He had a couple decent runs and one very good one that was all him.
https://youtu.be/9d-wizYrtOc
But his combine absolutely blew.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Bell was somewhat unique because he looked like a totally different player between his rookie year and 2nd season in the NFL. For those saying Bell looked slow on tape, he looked slow in the NFL too....as a rookie.
I like Singletary but the jump Bell made, even stylistically, between his rookie year and 2nd season is something many of us hadn't really seen before, and not something to rely on.
Just feel it needs to be put out there in clear terms for everyone, this man was drafted to start next year. 3rd round pick, Gore on a 1 year, McCoy on his last year, Yeldon only leaves 250k dead money next year and cutting him opens cap. He has to seize the opportunity and perform but I love his film, his balance during his cuts and after contact is incredible. People need to know, the Bills RB room is out the door after this season and this is NOT a muddy situation at all, it is a great one
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Snagged him at 2.05.....so im on board....i won this league last year so i can be patient and wait one year while they clean out gore n mccoy....yeldon ....
EthnicFury
Footballguy
There’s so much technique involved in running these drills well, outside of complete disaster level numbers I tend to take note of great performances but somewhat discount mediocre ones if they don’t match up with on-field performance. I’m not sure he has jets but he looks like he can string some mean cuts together so I’m less worried about the 3 cone
saintfool
Dead sexy
i was drafting at 1.10 in my 16 team dynasty league. he was okay-to-good value for me. i needed a RB, for sure, but wasn't paying much of a premium to grab him a little early.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree with this mostly.
However you could see signs of Bell using elusiveness in colllege, he was even criticized for it in some draftnik write ups of him as a prospect.
His coaches at Michigan and some of these draftniks wanted Bell to be more of a power RB when naturally he runs better trying to make defenders miss.
Bell had an injury as a rookie and still played at a higher weight that year. He dropped 15 lbs and became much quicker as a result of it his 2nd season.
Tomlin and the Steelers deserve credit for having Bell do that.
As far as Bells 3 cone I did think that was an impressive number as I focus on that a lot (less now than I used to) so it was a huge positive, but we hadn't seen Bell play that way at the lower weight yet, and I do think it helped him a lot.
As for Singletarys 3 cone being low I dont think it's a big deal. Dalvin Cook had a poor 3 cone time too.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Not sure I've ever seen a 3rd round pedigree RB drafted behind two old RBs in a weak draft class fall so far...some years these guys go late 1st. Remember how high Johnathon Franklin was sometimes going in 2013 despite being drafted to the same team that took Eddie Lacy higher?
His combine has people really sleeping. Usually a guy with his pedigree, situation, and fun highlights would be a popular reach at some point in every league. Stockpile him now and sell later.
His combine has people really sleeping. Usually a guy with his pedigree, situation, and fun highlights would be a popular reach at some point in every league. Stockpile him now and sell later.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Man, his combine was really, really, really bad...
https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/devin-singletary
https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/devin-singletary
bostonfred
Footballguy
It really was. I think part of it is that he sucks at track though. Try pausing this after his first and second steps.
https://youtu.be/EhlKQ121dNY
He's still on his third step at the 1.00 second mark. It takes him almost 7 full steps and about 1.7 seconds to cross ten yards. He finishes the whole 40 in about 19 and a half steps. It's supposed to take about 17.
Now watch this play.
https://cdn.herosports.com/upload/files/2018/08/devin-singletary-3.gif
It's like a totally different player. Look how much quicker those steps look. You can see the clock. He probably runs about 14 or 15 yards in this clip while changing direction with pads on in 2 seconds - you can see the clock change from 21 to 20 at the very start of the gif and from 19 to 18 as he crosses the goal line.
More importantly, look at him from the 12 to the 2, because he's slowing up as he crosses the goal line. He clearly finishes that in under 2 full seconds - you can see it on the game clock. That's 10 yards if he's going in a straight line but he's not - he changes directions twice. He covers it in the same number of steps that it took him without pads, when he's running in a straight line. And it's not like he has built up speed - he starts the clip running inside then turns almost 90 degrees to cut around that mass of defenders.
That's not to say this is a great example of track speed. It isn't. He's not really flying upfield in this clip, he's just going fast enough to make the play. But he seems to play faster than his 40 time.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Damn he looked good tonight… I wish she was on my radar before I started my dynasty draft.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Wasn't impressed. Cumbersome, sluggish, and slow.
Elevencents
Footballguy
It’s funny how multiple people can watch the same game and come up with polar opposite opinions. Not saying I disagree, I didn’t even see the game, but just based off of other comments I’ve seen. Hell, even in this thread
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
nice breakdown
3 touch highlights including a screen pass
he only posted 9-27 & 3-21, in fairness to @cloppbeast he must have gotten stuffed a few times, I haven’t watched the rewind or All 22.
3 touch highlights including a screen pass
he only posted 9-27 & 3-21, in fairness to @cloppbeast he must have gotten stuffed a few times, I haven’t watched the rewind or All 22.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
12 touches, 3 of them were good. I'd call them decent, actually, nothing amazing. He didn't make any defender miss or gain many yards after contact.
Maybe I'm being overly critical after watching Montgomery, who was pretty impressive. I don't think Singletary compares at all.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I linked to a play where he made yards after contact AND then made a defender miss.
He bounced after off a O lineman being blocked into him (balance) and tore through a hit by #45 coming from the other side (shows good ball security), and makes #57 completely whiff.
YPA is a largely meaningless out of context. Instead we should focus on vision, balance and decisiveness of cuts. This guy has a nice assortment of tools in his tool belt.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
I stand corrected. That little spin move thing allowed him past the LB providing him an extra yard or two. So that's 1 defender miss instead of 0.
I think at this point we agree to disagree for the moment, wait for the next game to reassess.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Fair enough, pretty small sample size. Great opportunity for him if he shows well the next few weeks, but first half of the third game (e.g., non-JV action) might be a good indicator.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
The other thing worth noting is that 7 of his 12 touches came on an 8 play stretch, including 6 in a row. So, you know he was pretty gassed on some of those.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Singletary definitely got yards after contact and he definitely made defenders miss in college.
The fact that he did both in his first NFL game is meaningful to me, because it answers the first question - will those skills translate to the NFL.
I also like that he had a couple big catches and that he converted both a third and 1 and a third and 10. That's good when we're trying to predict his opportunity.
The valid concerns that still aren't answered are
- will he ever get a chance to start? I don't want a third down back
- doing this against second string defenders is great but can he do it against real NFL defenses that scheme for him (and with the bills starting line, which is already dinged up)
- it's great that he can spin out of that tackle but does he have the speed to turn those into big plays?
- at his size, can he survive a heavy workload while fighting for every yard? (And will the coaches let him try?)
Those are questions we can't answer yet. But i think we have answered the question of whether his style translates and i think that's a clear yes so far.
The fact that he did both in his first NFL game is meaningful to me, because it answers the first question - will those skills translate to the NFL.
I also like that he had a couple big catches and that he converted both a third and 1 and a third and 10. That's good when we're trying to predict his opportunity.
The valid concerns that still aren't answered are
- will he ever get a chance to start? I don't want a third down back
- doing this against second string defenders is great but can he do it against real NFL defenses that scheme for him (and with the bills starting line, which is already dinged up)
- it's great that he can spin out of that tackle but does he have the speed to turn those into big plays?
- at his size, can he survive a heavy workload while fighting for every yard? (And will the coaches let him try?)
Those are questions we can't answer yet. But i think we have answered the question of whether his style translates and i think that's a clear yes so far.
I was offered Phillip Lindsay straight up last night. I declined and said I’m holding out for a 2020 1st, which I was then offered in a 3 way but it was from the most stacked team in the league so I, again, declined. Would’ve taken a 1st from any other team in the league though. Would rather take the ride and try to cash in later than take such a low pick
Preseason game 1 showed some of the bad with the good, overall though, I liked what he showed and his usage was nice. They definitely showed that there is a world where they see the offense running through Singletary. The pass catching was also a welcome surprise. Him being pulled at the goal was definitely a conditioning thing. Maybe he’ll get more of a shot next week against the 1s with Allen and show us a little more
Preseason game 1 showed some of the bad with the good, overall though, I liked what he showed and his usage was nice. They definitely showed that there is a world where they see the offense running through Singletary. The pass catching was also a welcome surprise. Him being pulled at the goal was definitely a conditioning thing. Maybe he’ll get more of a shot next week against the 1s with Allen and show us a little more
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Wow, he is arguably not a first in this years crap draft. Any 2020 first in what is projected to be stacked draft seems like robbery. Hope it works out for you.
ETA: FBGs cumulative rookie rankings have him as the 21st overall pick in this draft with the very highest of the 7 staffers ranking at 16. A 2020 first is a great offer if you buy what they are selling.
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I think by the end of the preseason that he will be a 2019 1st round consensus. I drafted him with a flip to a 2020 1st in mind. At the time I was planning on packaging him with a 2nd after he showed for a 1st but he’s caught on so hard that I don’t think I will need to. Every league I’m in, there’s one guy (other than me) who is absolutely salivating over Singletary. I know a 1st is above market value right now but I have had guys way over offering from the moment I picked him so I’m going to stick to my guns.
Not a damn soul is interested except for the guy whose 1st will be bottom 2.
I really thought about it but I think I can do better than that barring an injury. For additional perspective, I was offered two 2020 2nds for Singletary 5 minutes after drafting him in the second. I think I’m spot on in wanting more because the owners who want him on their team are rabid
jm192
Footballguy
I’m honestly really down on Lindsay, but surprised group think has gotten to the point Singletary is valued more.
