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The new Red Scare (1 Viewer)

ren hoek

ren hoek

Footballguy
[Formerly "A New McCarthyism"]

I probably should have started this thread 2 years ago.  This is just getting ridiculous.  

NBC News @NBCNews

The Russian propaganda machine that tried to influence the 2016 US election is now promoting the presidential aspirations of 2020 Democratic candidate Tulsi Gabbard.

 
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Mark Ames @MarkAmesExiled

In which free USA media becomes the mirror image of the very worst of Kremlin TV “black pr”. You don’t even need to threaten American hacks’ lives to get them to run this shameless mccarthyist garbage

Holy ####, this NBC piece actually cites New Knowledge—who were just busted by NYTimes planting fake Russian bots on behalf of Democratic Party operatives—as experts who caught Russian bots working for Tulsi. These sleazebags aren’t even trying

 
Adam H. Johnson @adamjohnsonNYC

shockingly irresponsible for NBC to use New Knowledge as an expert on Russian social media bots without noting New Knowledge was caught running fake "Russian bots" in the 2017 Alabama Senate race. (v @MarkAmesExiled)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/russia-s-propaganda-machine-discovers-2020-democratic-candidate-tulsi-gabbard-n964261

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/alabama-facebook-new-knowledge-jonathon-morgan/

this shadowy, partisan group funded by a billionaire that was just caught making fake Russian bots that created dozens of false positive stories about Russians backing a candidate in 2017 they, it turns out, werent actually backing is here to say who said bots are backing in 2019

one would think being caught running fake fake accounts that generated dozens of false news stories would undermine a groups credibility in determining what accounts were & weren't fake but the editorial standards of Russiagate social media stories is basically nonexistent

New Knowledge's funder, Reid Hoffman, was previously caught running fake, "rightwing" (& v sexist) ads on FB praising Tulsi under a group called "Right Call". Media never picked up on it being Russian but its another example of false positives from Hoffman

Hoffman and New Knowledge are open dirty tricksters and there's ample evidence they run fake fake accounts to inflate or manufacture what "Russian" bots support and don't support. There's no effort on the part of NBC and others to actually verify any of this. Totally mindless.

Apologies here's a non-paywalled link showing Hoffman funded the bizarre Gabbard ads https://elink.thedailybeast.com/view/5b34286f9c625f43e708d74b8odge.b5/7afa918d

 
Here's the Glenn Greenwald article ren will inevitably link to or quote from:

Link

We know Glenn Greenwald is hardly a reliable voice in these matters, but I read his rant anyway. New Knowledge only pops up in the closing paragraphs of the NBC story, yet he focuses his outrage almost exclusively on them (while grossly mischaracterizing the content of the NYTimes article he himself linked.) It was interesting and new to me, though, and I'm glad to have read it. The actual accounting of RT, Sputnik, and other Russian propaganda outlets' coverage of Gabbard, as well as the observations made by Stamos and Clint Watts, somehow went without mention by Greenwald.

 
ren hoek said:
Mark Ames @MarkAmesExiled

In which free USA media becomes the mirror image of the very worst of Kremlin TV “black pr”. You don’t even need to threaten American hacks’ lives to get them to run this shameless mccarthyist garbage

Holy ####, this NBC piece actually cites New Knowledge—who were just busted by NYTimes planting fake Russian bots on behalf of Democratic Party operatives—as experts who caught Russian bots working for Tulsi. These sleazebags aren’t even trying
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That still doesn't explain how this is McCarthyism or McCarthyist.

 
timschochet said:
I love how Ren seems to always cite shadowy, disreputable sources in order to prove that the people he is attacking are shadowy and disreputable. 
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Just because you don’t know who they are doesn’t make them shadowy or disreputable.  

 
ren hoek said:
New Knowledge was caught running fake "Russian bots" in the 2017 Alabama Senate race
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This is actually misreporting in its own right. New Knowledge's executive (Morgan) was involved, not New Knowledge itself. It's actually in the snip that the tweeter references but he doesn't even bother to read it.

 
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ren hoek said:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/russia-s-propaganda-machine-discovers-2020-democratic-candidate-tulsi-gabbard-n964261
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An NBC News analysis of the main English-language news sites employed by Russia in its 2016 election meddling shows Rep. Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii, who is set to make her formal announcement Saturday, has become a favorite of the sites Moscow used when it interfered in 2016.

Several experts who track websites and social media linked to the Kremlin have also seen what they believe may be the first stirrings of an upcoming Russian campaign of support for Gabbard.

Since Gabbard announced her intention to run on Jan. 11, there have been at least 20 Gabbard stories on three major Moscow-based English-language websites affiliated with or supportive of the Russian government: RT, the Russian-owned TV outlet; Sputnik News, a radio outlet; and Russia Insider, a blog that experts say closely follows the Kremlin line. The CIA has called RT and Sputnik part of "Russia's state-run propaganda machine."

All three sites celebrated Gabbard's announcement, defended her positions on Russia and her 2017 meeting with Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad, and attacked those who have suggested she is a pawn for Moscow. The coverage devoted to Gabbard, both in news and commentary, exceeds that afforded to any of the declared or rumored Democratic candidates despite Gabbard's lack of voter recognition.

Gabbard was mentioned on the three sites about twice as often as two of the best known Democratic possibilities for 2020, Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders, each with 10 stories. Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren had fewer. In each case, the other contenders were treated more critically than Gabbard, with headlines like "'Don't Run': Vermont Paper Begs Bernie Sanders Not to Seek US Presidency in 2020" and "Sexist much? Biden blames 'conservative blonde woman' for shutdown, 'forgets' Ann Coulter's name."
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Interesting.

 
It kinds of makes sense to me, Gabbard is probably the worst Democratic candidate running, but she still has appeal to some leftists who ignore (or like) her crazy stuff. She could be used as a wedge for them to try and convince more left voters to stay home on election day (like they tried to do with Bernie Sanders in 2016) to help Trump, plus she would gladly hand them Syria and such if she does end up winning. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
This is actually misreporting in its own right. New Knowledge's executive (Morgan) was involved, not New Knowledge itself. It's actually in the snip that the tweeter references but he doesn't even bother to read it.
Click to expand...
That’s who New Knowledge is.  The people that run New Knowledge.  It’s not a physical thing in the world that exists.  

Whatever you think of Gabbard, there’s clearly a conflict of interest here.  Pretending New Knowledge magically works outside the whims of Jonathan Morgan when he puts on his NK CEO hat is silly.  

 
ren hoek said:
That’s who New Knowledge is.  The people that run New Knowledge.  It’s not a physical thing in the world that exists.  

Whatever you think of Gabbard, there’s clearly a conflict of interest here.  Pretending New Knowledge magically works outside the whims of Jonathan Morgan when he puts on his NK CEO hat is silly.  
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A corporation and a person in the corporation are two separate things.

- eta - It’s just a point about the journalism here. Just be accurate, your point about potential conflict still applies.

 
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One of the reasons I find this so amusing is because Tulsi Gabbard has no chance. She would have no chance if the Russians helped her, and she would have no chance if the Russians did not help her. She's a non-entity in the race.

 
The main focus of Russian influence in the past few years has been Trump and his campaign associates.

Several high profile members of his campaign and close associates have been indicted, and some plead guilty, for lying about associations/conversations with Russia.

Our intelligence community was united behind the analysis that Russia was meddling in our 2016 election with the intent to support Trump and hurt Hillary.

Each new piece of information we get from Mueller's investigation further shows how much interaction there was between Trump's campaign, as well as lies to cover up that interaction.

So you have the intelligence community, former leaders of the FBI/CIA and other intelligence agencies, and Mueller's findings all combining to point at a Trump administration/campaign that had dealings with Russia that at best they don't want to admit to, even to the FBI, even under penalty of jail.

And at the extreme outliers, you have some folks publishing stories tying various folks to Russian propaganda.

How is this a huge pattern showing a deliberate and coordinated focused attempt to smear people for political gain, orchestrated by a small group of people or person?

It's nothing like McCarthyism.  Folks are falsely tied to various things all the time, or accurately tied.  The main area of Russia focus is on Trump and folks tied to him and the 2016 campaign.

 
huthut said:
It kinds of makes sense to me, Gabbard is probably the worst Democratic candidate running, but she still has appeal to some leftists who ignore (or like) her crazy stuff. She could be used as a wedge for them to try and convince more left voters to stay home on election day (like they tried to do with Bernie Sanders in 2016) to help Trump, plus she would gladly hand them Syria and such if she does end up winning. 
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What better way to help the other party than to help the opposition candidate with the least chance of winning?

 
ren hoek said:
I probably should have started this thread 2 years ago.  This is just getting ridiculous.  

NBC News @NBCNews

The Russian propaganda machine that tried to influence the 2016 US election is now promoting the presidential aspirations of 2020 Democratic candidate Tulsi Gabbard.
Click to expand...
I have you on ignore.

I went out of my way to read your post.

I won't make the same mistake again.

You are now in the same group as tim.

 
Henry Ford said:
You should compare all the people found guilty in a court of law because of Joseph McCarthy with the current investigations.  It would really show everyone.
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It's ok.  I know Hillary supporters have a vested interest in pretending this isn't a thing.  

 
Well, I shouldn't say Hillary supporters.  But I get why people who've indulged this fairy tale for 2 years want to pretend it hasn't had any blowback on US discourse.  

 
ren hoek said:
It's ok.  I know Hillary supporters have a vested interest in pretending this isn't a thing.  
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You're aware that I actually posted a series of very long explanations of why Hillary Clinton should be arrested and removed from the campaign in 2016, right?  Including statutory bases for that?

 
ren hoek said:
Well, I shouldn't say Hillary supporters.  But I get why people who've indulged this fairy tale for 2 years want to pretend it hasn't had any blowback on US discourse.  
Click to expand...
And I understand why people who tied their entire fantasy of intellectual superiority over the rest of this country to the concept that it's all a fairy tale now can't see past their own noses into reality.

 
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