Stealthycat
Footballguy
see above - almost all Democrats sill believe Kavanaugh is guilty - and what was the Senate vote? 50-48 ? Only 1 Democrat voted for , all the others against.
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Democrats Done Grappling - Credible rape Allegation Propels Fairfax to run for Governor (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jon_mx
- Start date
The Commish
Footballguy
so...you're assertion is we are ALL one accusation away from complete ruin. That's simply not true....not even close. Kavanaugh is proof of that.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
so you believe Kavanaugh is innocent right? that Ford either flat out lied or is misremembering?
because there is 0 evidence and 0 facts supporting her accusation - there already is far more facts here with Fairfax and Tyson right ?
that's my point - the accusation alone has 1/2 this country believing Kavanaugh did what Ford said and they'll not be convinced otherwise and if it wasn't for a slight Senate margin, yes ....... Kavanaugh would have lost everything to a baseless, factless accusation.
The Narrator
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
see above
part of me wishes everyone who doesn't understand false accusations would be falsely accused of misconduct tomorrow - to live it isn't something you can pen to paper and people not understanding it tells me they've never been a victim of false accusations before.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
none of this matters to the comment you made that all men are one accusation away from ruin. It's not true. You keep trying to change the subject though.
The Commish
Footballguy
sure it is....I can give you my story if you like, but it should be a different thread....you let me know
sho nuff
Footballguy
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The Narrator
Footballguy
It must be some other Lt Governor from Virginia whose face is on the front page of cnn.com right now then
GoBirds
Footballguy
I thought you were kidding.....no sign on it and the AG story is buried under 8 other articles including air traffic controllers that called in sick during the shutdown. What a joke.
Dickies
Footballguy
The top 6 stories on the mobile site are all about this scandal.I thought you were kidding.....no sign on it and the AG story is buried under 8 other articles including air traffic controllers that called in sick during the shutdown. What a joke.
The General
Footballguy
It's all over CNN. Just checked Fox and it has similar coverage. Less that I saw really.
Not that it really matters but Kavanaugh was testifying for a SC seat in front of Congress for a lifetime appointment. Kind of a bigger story.
Not that it really matters but Kavanaugh was testifying for a SC seat in front of Congress for a lifetime appointment. Kind of a bigger story.
It seemed to be the top story on the networks. It is being covered. We are talking about the top three people in the state, so it should be a big story. CNN seemed to be in disbelief that the governor has not resigned yet. I think the only one in danger is Fairfax. The PC stuff will blow over. A rape charge from someone with zero motive will not.
The General
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
A joke is believing one lie and then repeating it.I thought you were kidding.....no sign on it and the AG story is buried under 8 other articles including air traffic controllers that called in sick during the shutdown. What a joke.
GoBirds
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Address the post, not the poster and I have done what was needed by the challenge and continue to do so. As I have proven, your statement wasn’t true. There was nothing in his challenge about telling the truth.
Try addressing the substance of the lost rather than taking bogus pot shots at me.
GoBirds
Footballguy
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sho nuff
Footballguy
I will move in just fine...but I will not be told to not respond, I will not be told not to point out that you repeated something that was shown not to be true (lod’s CNN post which my link clearly showed was wrong).
Yiubthem also made comments about a challenge that were not true and Id direct you to that topic if you wish to see what was actually said.
And you can ignore me anytime you want.
I want to question the idea that Ford’s inability to remember the exact time and place of her encounter, while the Fairfax accuser did name the time and place of her encounter, means that the Fairfax accuser’s story is the more credible of the two. I don’t think that’s true. One thing liars frequently do is invent precise details to flesh out their stories. Saying “I don’t remember all the details” does not necessarily detract from someone’s credibility, in my view, and providing lots of details does not necessarily add to it.
After watching Ford’s testimony and reading the Fairfax accuser’s letter, I assign an extremely low probability to the notion that either one was lying. In both cases, it’s possible that there was a misunderstanding or a misinterpreted (or missed) signal or something else along those lines. But outright lying seems extremely unlikely to me. If I had to place a bet on which one is more likely to be lying, I guess I’d bet on the Fairfax accuser simply because I haven’t had the benefit of getting to see her testimony — her body language, intonation, cadence, etc. On all of those points, I give Dr. Ford very high marks while I must give the Fairfax accuser an incomplete.
That’s not to say that I don’t find her accusation credible. I do. I believe her. But I don’t find her more credible than Dr. Ford.
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parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Something like this would be a better example of what you are talking about...
Q: Where did this happen?
A: At the hyatt regency. I know it was the hyatt regency because I remember saying to my friend before that how much I was looking forward to staying at the hyatt regency and when I went to prom we were supposed to go to a party at the hyatt regency but I didn't go because we broke up during the dance so it was definitely at the hyatt regency.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
How much money has Bill Clinton made on the speaking circuit since leaving the White House?
You must have watched for 12 seconds. It's been on all morning. As it was yesterday as well. My hunch is that you didn't watch at all. Just thought you were being clever but turned out you were just horribly wrong. Again.
And our current president has 20 accusers. It all comes down to how much his supporters care.
bigbottom
Footballguy
And Trump has something like 15 women who have come forward with accusations against him. He ascended to become leader of the free world.
Edit: too slow on the trigger.
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The Commish
Footballguy
Well BESIDES all that guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
oy vey
oy vey
timschochet
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Weren't you just lecturing people last night about the personal stuff with other posters?
timschochet
Footballguy
That wasn’t a personal remark. I don’t know anything about stealthycat personally. His arguments are consistently simplistic and awful.
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
I have to grapple with scrapple every single time I make some for the wife and I. Its very hard to cut it thin enough to fry it to a golden brown crisp.
Now I understand your disconnect.
As can I. In fact there's a thread around here somewhere from 2007 in which I discuss my ordeal at great length.sure it is....I can give you my story if you like, but it should be a different thread....you let me know
Some folks are just so damn ignorant. I wonder what it's like to live in that kind of bubble.
bigbottom
Footballguy
While we can dispute the assertion that an accusation is certain to destroy the life of the accused, his overall point is still well taken. When such accusations are made, we need be careful to avoid a rush to judgment and an immediate demand for retribution and punishment. While certainly not common, false accusations do occur for a variety of reasons.
And for what it’s worth, Stealthycat is taking his position with respect to an accused Democratic official, so it’s not like he’s being a political partisan on the issue.
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timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
In cultural terms, conservatives tend to defend the accused man in these situations. Not always true (Bill Clinton being the most famous outlier) but mostly true
The Commish
Footballguy
I don't disagree with any of this. What I disagree with is the labeling of statements like "Man, if this is true then he should go" as immediate demand for retribution and punishment. It's not that. It's a qualified statement dependent on future information/outcomes. That mislabeling is done frequently around here.
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bigbottom
Footballguy
bigbottom
Footballguy
That is true as well. But I do think that a number of posters after reading her statement do believe her, and do think he should step down. I’m one of them. And I think SC’s posts caused me to take a pause and consider my own biases on this issue, and for that I appreciate his contributions.
And given the circumstances, it is highly unlikely that we will ever have a definite outcome on the “if true” qualifier.
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Sure....this is a process and contrary to popular belief just because one is incapable of changing their mind once made (even in the face of new information) doesn't mean they get to assign that trait to people who can change their minds based on information presented. These opinions you and I have are based on the information we have right now. Should something come about that drastically changes what we know, we will adapt our opinions. That's how it should work and us holding the opinion should not be an issue and it's certainly not in the vein that stealthycat is trying to frame it. It's pretty clear that he doesn't change his mind once it's made up. He doesn't get to project that character flaw onto the rest of us when making his arguments..
To your point of bias. Mine was challenged and shown in college and even though I went through what I went through, I am still comfortable having the "bias" of giving the woman the benefit of the doubt. Well over 95% of the time, it's on the guy and I approach each of these situations understanding that. That doesn't mean that in the cases where the 5% is true, I still side with the woman. I don't. I adapt my position.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Well, you made a generalization that, culturally speaking, Republicans tend to defend the accused man in these cases. I'm not so sure that is the case when it comes to prominent political figures. Of the four examples (Clinton, Conyers, Franken, Weiner), you provided one example of one Republican defending one of the four men. I don't find that terribly persuasive. If your generalization has merit, most Republicans would have been defending all four of these men. In any event, SC's posts, whatever issue you might have with them, actually cut against political partisanship, which was my point.
Not really sure how much credit you give a guy for prioritizing his misogyny over his partisan hackery.
He's one of the few Trump supporters who haven't either run off in shame or decided to simply post 'Was Trump found guilty of collusion yet?'. Sometimes it's enlightening to get a peak into the other side's mindset. I agree that, at times, it seems like he must be trolling, but at least he offers discussion.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Thing is every case is different. It always depends on the facts. Hypothetically someone could defend one of these men and then support the accuser of another. It should entirely depend on the facts. Who could legitimately defend Weiner? It's impossible. I don't think any Dems were, his mayoral campaign died almost immediately. There are ways to defend Clinton (well we know that because people did, some still do). People defended Franken based on the nature and timing of the pics. It's really a matter of the facts. I don't think 'believe the woman always' or 'always protect the accused by citing due process' are real philosophies, it's dogma. The thing with Kavanaugh was an anomaly because all the liberals wanted him down and all the conservatives wanted him confirmed. I respect bofe sides but something is askew there, obviously the political impact was huge and that was what was at play there.
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
I'm probably much more connected to sexual assault situations/victimization and false accusations than anyone here is.
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The Commish
Footballguy
Is this a contest of some sort? I only have one situation that I was part of. You win? I don't know what you're saying here
As I said before, I am happy to discuss it in another thread...go for it.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
By the same token, we also need to be mindful that it's reasonable to put that person on "pause", especially politically. We don't need to promote/advance - we need to take the accusations seriously and assume accusers are telling the truth, as we usually would with any other crime.
Of course, that doesn't mean the accuser is telling the truth or even that what the accuser believes is objectively true. But it should be undertaken seriously.
Edit: While I'm aware that some people were calling for Kavanaugh to be removed from the bench, by and large people were saying "keep him on the appellate court, just don't make him a member of the SCOTUS until we have real answers, if they can be found or, barring that, don't promote him if there's even a reasonable chance he's a rapist."
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