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Democrats Done Grappling - Credible rape Allegation Propels Fairfax to run for Governor (1 Viewer)

J

jon_mx

Footballguy
Democrats grapple with Fairfax assault accusation in #MeToo era

February 5, 2019 at 6:49 PM

The day after Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax (D) denied allegations of sexual misconduct, Democrats grappled with how to respond without betraying a rising star in their party or abandoning victims in the #MeToo era.

Nearly all Democrats at the state and federal level swiftly called for Gov. Ralph Northam to resign over a racist photo from his 1984 yearbook that became public Friday.

But lawmakers and party officials interviewed took a more circumspect approach to the allegation against Fairfax, which surfaced Monday, just three days later.

Although Democrats at the state and national level have been quick to say women should be believed and that all allegations should be investigated, they say they are resisting a rush to judgment.

Unlike claims of assault against Supreme Court Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh, former senator Al Franken (D-Minn.), former congressman John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.) and others, Virginia Democrats privately note the accuser in the Fairfax case has not yet offered evidence she says corroborates her claim.

The dilemma shows the trouble they have enforcing a policy of zero tolerance.

“I have so many different things going through my head right now,” said Monique Alcala, chair of the state Democratic Party’s Latino caucus and a Fairfax supporter since he first made a splash in state politics by nearly winning the 2013 Democratic primary for attorney general.

“I could be totally wrong on this, but I just don’t buy it,” Alcala said, referring to the accusations, in which a woman said Fairfax sexually assaulted her in Boston in 2004.

________________

The biggest difference is the party of the one being accused.  Fairfax's accuser has been identified as Vanessa Tyson, an associate professor of politics at Scripps College in Claremont, California.  A far more credible claim and somehow the Washington Post inexcusably killed the story last year.   

 
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jon_mx said:
A far more credible claim and somehow the Washington Post inexcusably  killed the story last year.   
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1. A far more credible claim than what? Based on what? 

2. The Post gave their reason: they couldn’t corroborate the story. Why do you find that inexescusable? 

 
parasaurolophus said:
Maybe instead of this being a negative, perhaps this could be the case that puts things back into reasonable territory. 
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IMHO, this is a slam dunk compared to Kavanaugh where there was a much bigger political angle.  This lady is almost certainly a Democrat and was not in cahoots with politicians.  

 
timschochet said:
2. The Post gave their reason: they couldn’t corroborate the story. Why do you find that inexescusable? 
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Come on Tim, we all know if this were an (R) they would have blared this to the moon.  At least they kind of made amends tonight by dropping the boom on Liz Warren.

Correction, it appears Warren and WP colluded to get the story out before one of the Democrat clowns could spring it on her in hopes it got lost in tonight’s SOTU shuffle.  So WP is still awful.

 
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timschochet said:
1. A far more credible claim than what? Based on what? 

2. The Post gave their reason: they couldn’t corroborate the story. Why do you find that inexescusable? 
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1.  There was a huge political angle in the Kavanaugh case where the biggest hot button issue ever of abortion rights is possibly in the balance.  The fact she was in cahoots with top democrat law makers raised huge flags of the political nature of it.   15 years vs. 35 years is big as far as accurately being able to recall facts, but even 15 is a bit suspect.   I would bet the farm this lady is a Democrat and has no political angle.

2.  Ford's story lacked any corroboration that the two were even together and any specifics of the date or exact location, but we were suppose to believe her.   Hell, this story we know they had sex.   That right there corroborates major portions of the story. 

 
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OrtonToOlsen said:
Hey, I really like the idea that you think you are interesting.  Glad that you’re on this board.
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When a joke is actually funny, listeners don't mind the disruption because there is a payoff: humor. Without the humor, listeners may become annoyed at the lame crack.
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Some thoughts for you.

 
The Z Machine said:
If the claim is credible, he should go.

Enough with the men behaving badly.  I've never assaulted anyone, and I want my representatives not to have done so either.
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Agreed. We should start with the POTUS

 
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OrtonToOlsen said:
Hey, I really like the idea that you think you are interesting.  Glad that you’re on this board.
Click to expand...
You really come across poorly with comments like this. Just really yucky. 

 
“It’s good to see that the newspaper has found a renewed interest in the standard of proof it abandoned entirely when it broke the story of similar allegations of sexual misconduct leveled last year against Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh. Recall that it was the Post that first got Christine Blasey Ford to go on the record with her allegations,” wrote the Washington Examiner’s Becket Adams.

“It’s fine if the Post passed on the Fairfax story because of a genuine lack of evidence. And there definitely doesn’t appear to be that much to go on, other than the word of a single accuser,” Adams added. “But it’s hard to see the Post’s decision to spike her story as anything but politically biased considering how the paper gorged itself on nearly every flimsy and fantastic allegation hurled in Kavanaugh’s direction, no matter how ridiculous, again with no evidence to back any of it up.”
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It is interesting to see the complete lack of interest in this story from posters on this forum who are always so 'concerned' with women when it favors liberalism.  A very credible allegation of rape against a very prominent person who is probably about to become governor.  This is as about as credible of a claim as there can possibly be in sexual assault cases.  

 
jon_mx said:
It is interesting to see the complete lack of interest in this story from posters on this forum who are always so 'concerned' with women when it favors liberalism.  A very credible allegation of rape against a very prominent person who is probably about to become governor.  This is as about as credible of a claim as there can possibly be in sexual assault cases.  
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I hate that you turned into a troll.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I hate that you turned into a troll.
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LOL, Troll?  Really.....Most of the posts including this one to be trollish.  Mostly deflections.  One post by Z-Machine at least says he should go, but it is caveted with the 'if the claim is credible'.  This is far more credible than the Kavanaugh claim as it lacks any political motivation.  Not a single poster really sympathizes with this vicitim while Ford was declared a hero.  

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
jon_mx said:
It is interesting to see the complete lack of interest in this story from posters on this forum who are always so 'concerned' with women when it favors liberalism.  A very credible allegation of rape against a very prominent person who is probably about to become governor.  This is as about as credible of a claim as there can possibly be in sexual assault cases.  
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I hate that you turned into a troll.
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Yeah, I am not sure the point of this thread given the fact there is an 18 page thread already dedicated to the issues VA is facing including this very topic.  

Then there's the problem of comparing the reactions of Democrats in the Kavanaugh thread to the reactions of the Democrats in the VA thread and seeing they are basically taking the same approach in both.

Then there's the problem of posting an unsourced article saying the Dems are struggling with how to handle these sorts of things all while listing instances where they didn't have a problem at all.  It can't be FoxNews as they'd never acknowledge the Dems handled anything the right way, so there's that.

Then there's the problem of this being "about as credible of a claim as there can possibly be"  Personally, I am at the point of wait and see as I was in the Kavanaugh thread but this guy's gonna have to prove his innocence to me.  I generally tend to believe the women initially, and yes, that's burned me in the past.

I say 2/10 with a general lack of effort and heart.

 
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The Commish said:
Yeah, I am not sure the point of this thread given the fact there is an 18 page thread already dedicated to the issues VA is facing including this very topic.  

Then there's the problem of comparing the reactions of Democrats in the Kavanaugh thread to the reactions of the Democrats in the VA thread and seeing they are basically taking the same approach in both.

Then there's the problem of posting an unsourced article saying the Dems are struggling with how to handle these sorts of things all while listing instances where they didn't have a problem at all.

Then there's the problem of this being "about as credible of a claim as there can possibly be"  Personally, I am at the point of wait and see as I was in the Kavanaugh thread but this guy's gonna have to prove his innocence to me.  I generally tend to believe the women initially, and yes, that's burned me in the past.

I say 2/10 with a general lack of effort and heart.
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:lol:   You guys are too much.  

1.  The other thread is about a different person and a yearbook photo, not about rape.  A guy who is probably about to become a governor with a credible rape claim against him deserves a thread.  

2.  There were immediately numerous calls for Kavanaugh's nomination to be withdrawn 

3. The media did not sit on the story for a year

4.  Ford was declared a hero

5.  People who dared questioned the credibility of Ford were attacked

6.  People are deflecting instead of sympathizing. 

The response here is alarmingly different.  Deflection, deflection, deflection.....

 
jon_mx said:
1.  The other thread is about a different person and a yearbook photo, not about rape.  A guy who is probably about to become a governor with a credible rape claim against him deserves a thread.
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The other thread is discussing both :shrug:   Regardless, my point stands.  At this same point in the Kavanaugh thread (where all we really knew was the allegation) there were a lot of "if" qualifiers and waiting to see.  Stealthycat made your same assertion.  I encourage you to go read the thread and refresh your memory a bit.  The majority of pouncing on Kavanaugh came after his "testimony" and attacks on the Senate in his hearing.  Similarly, the majority of love for Ford came after her testimony :shrug:

jon_mx said:
2.  There were immediately numerous calls for Kavanaugh's nomination to be withdrawn 
Click to expand...
These calls were mostly qualified with "if it's true" sorts of statements until after his testimony.  Once that was over and his performance was out there for the world to see it was game on.  The best part about it was they didn't even need the sexual assault to be legit at that point.  After he exposed himself as the partisan hack that he is in his classless berating of government officials, under normal circumstances that's enough.  Not with this GOP though.

jon_mx said:
3. The media did not sit on the story for a year
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I don't know much about this.  I don't watch our national news media, so ok?

jon_mx said:
 4.  Ford was declared a hero
Click to expand...
Takes some big balls to do what she did knowing she probably wasn't going to be believed.  I certainly commend her for that.  There was a lot at stake including her livelihood. Of course this was "declared" after all the testimony etc.

jon_mx said:
5.  People who dared questioned the credibility of Ford were attacked
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 Yep.  There's really no reason to attack the credibility of the person before we know or hear both sides of the story.  I don't see anyone attacking this new woman's credibility.  Seems like progress to me.  I think that's a good thing.  Of course your "sides" are flipped here so......

jon_mx said:
6.  People are deflecting instead of sympathizing.
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If you mean that people are pointing out guys like you are comparing apples and oranges, sure.  It's quite odd the story that's attempting to be woven.  If you take the time to go back and compare the two events at their similar stages, you'll see one group behaving as they did last time and another, not.  It's probably wise to watch this thing play out then get on your angry soapbox at the end should the behaviors be hypocritical.  At the very minimum, at least compare reactions of the similar point and time of each series of events.

 
Skoo said:
Wait, let me take a wild guess, OP is complaining that the left is treating the right unfairly?

It's almost as if every single thread is exactly the same.

Weird.
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The point is that the media and the fine folks in here only get worked up when the sexual assault is by someone on the right.  It is called politics and illustrates much of the outrage is phony.  

 
Jon, first off I don’t think your information is correct. If my recollection is right, the Post knew about Ford’s accusation against Kavanaugh and did not report it for months for the same reason that they didn’t report this story- lack of corroboration. They only reported it when they learned that Feinstein’s office had the same info and held on it- a separate and important news story. So it seems to me that in both instances the Post behaved pretty consistently. My suspicion is that they receive stories like this all the time, against politicians of both parties, and that they have pretty strict rules about how and when to report them. Your implications are unfounded. 

Now beyond that, if you want to make a larger argument about a double standard and hypocrisy in the way that liberals are responding to this story vs how they responded to Ford, well, have at it if you want. As as I pointed out in the other thread, double standards are the most predictable aspect of politics and the most boring to talk about. 

 
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jon_mx said:
The point is that the media and the fine folks in here only get worked up when the sexual assault is by someone on the right.  It is called politics and illustrates much of the outrage is phony.  
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You're surprised that folks get more worked up over a potential supreme court justice than a Lt. Gov. in a state most don't live in?

You might want to take a step back and look at this again.

 
jon_mx said:
:lol:   You guys are too much.  

1.  The other thread is about a different person and a yearbook photo, not about rape.  A guy who is probably about to become a governor with a credible rape claim against him deserves a thread.  

2.  There were immediately numerous calls for Kavanaugh's nomination to be withdrawn 

3. The media did not sit on the story for a year

4.  Ford was declared a hero

5.  People who dared questioned the credibility of Ford were attacked

6.  People are deflecting instead of sympathizing. 

The response here is alarmingly different.  Deflection, deflection, deflection.....
Click to expand...
The responses have been to investigate and see what comes out of it...the same as with Ford where posters were wanting an actual investigation done (and others were wanting it all just to go away).

Also, there is a difference between assault and rape, and after many complaints in the Kavanaugh thread of those calling him a rapist, its odd for you to now make rape claims when that isn't even the accusation. (Im not saying you complained about those calling him a rapist...you may have been one of those, I don't know nor do I care to look).

 
jon_mx said:
The point is that the media and the fine folks in here only get worked up when the sexual assault is by someone on the right.  It is called politics and illustrates much of the outrage is phony. 
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And this is where your argument fails. Just because double standards exist, on both sides, doesn’t mean that outrage is phony or undeserved. Millions of people, including me, believed Christine Ford and we were truly outraged, still are. It wasn’t phony. 

 
adonis said:
You're surprised that folks get more worked up over a potential supreme court justice than a Lt. Gov. in a state most don't live in?

You might want to take a step back and look at this again.
Click to expand...
In addition, ignoring the major differences in both situations.  People got worked up when names were out, when the full accusation was out and the accuser was actually coming forward.  All asking for an investigation...and the outrage was over the right doing everything it could to try and deny any actual investigation and how things were railroaded through.

If this person comes forward with an accusation, investigate it...I don't think any poster has said otherwise here.

All we have right now is a small post from social media with nothing of detail and no official accusation coming forward to investigate.

 
adonis said:
You're surprised that folks get more worked up over a potential supreme court justice than a Lt. Gov. in a state most don't live in?

You might want to take a step back and look at this again.
Click to expand...
This is an excellent point. The sheer volume of posts in the other thread compared to this one should illustrate this pretty easily. 

I do think it is fair to discuss how VA democrats are trying to keep this at arms length, so much so that even huff post called them out. 

But posters just wont care as much about this one. 

 
jon_mx said:
The point is that the media and the fine folks in here only get worked up when the sexual assault is by someone on the right.  It is called politics and illustrates much of the outrage is phony.  
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That's always your point. That the left is evil and the right is treated unfairly. Over and over and over again.

By the way, Al Franken would like a word.

 
parasaurolophus said:
This is an excellent point. The sheer volume of posts in the other thread compared to this one should illustrate this pretty easily. 

I do think it is fair to discuss how VA democrats are trying to keep this at arms length, so much so that even huff post called them out. 

But posters just wont care as much about this one. 
Click to expand...
The volume in the other thread was mainly due to the insistence of an investigation vs refusal to investigate.  That was THE main battle of that war.  It SHOULD be telling that there is general agreement that it needs to be investigated.  Are there even people here arguing that this shouldn't be investigated?  I haven't been back to the other thread yet today.  I get that this gets in the way of the "both sides" argument and more importantly the "you're a hypocrite and I'm not even though I am comparing apples to oranges" argument but I don't really care.  This should be investigated.

 
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sho nuff said:
The responses have been to investigate and see what comes out of it...the same as with Ford where posters were wanting an actual investigation done (and others were wanting it all just to go away).

Also, there is a difference between assault and rape, and after many complaints in the Kavanaugh thread of those calling him a rapist, its odd for you to now make rape claims when that isn't even the accusation. (Im not saying you complained about those calling him a rapist...you may have been one of those, I don't know nor do I care to look).
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If I understand the story correctly, Fairfax was accused of rape.

 
parasaurolophus said:
I do think it is fair to discuss how VA democrats are trying to keep this at arms length
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And has something changed since yesterday?  Yesterday they were saying that it should be taken very seriously.  I think they said something like "with profound gravity" if I am not mistaken.  Did they walk that back?

 
IvanKaramazov said:
If I understand the story correctly, Fairfax was accused of rape.
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Ive yet to see that...everywhere just says sexual assault or misconduct.  I will retract that part of it...but just calling it a credible accusation of rape or very credible as Ive seen from some seems to be misguided at this point.

 
adonis said:
You're surprised that folks get more worked up over a potential supreme court justice than a Lt. Gov. in a state most don't live in?

You might want to take a step back and look at this again.
Click to expand...
That's my take on this. It's a Virginia problem.

Dickies said:
Agreed. We should start with the POTUS
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Exactly.  When do we start  holding the guy accused by 22 women of sexual misconduct accountable? 

 
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parasaurolophus said:
This story is what i read. 
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Right....this story even mentions the comment I thought I remembered.  I guess I took your phrasing "keep this at arm's length" differently than you intended?  To me it seems like they are waiting to pass judgment until all the info is out there.  That is always a reasonable approach IMO.

 
The Commish said:
Right....this story even mentions the comment I thought I remembered.  I guess I took your phrasing "keep this at arm's length" differently than you intended?  To me it seems like they are waiting to pass judgment until all the info is out there.  That is always a reasonable approach IMO.
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Some said they hadnt even heard about it.  

 
jon_mx said:
A far more credible claim and somehow the Washington Post inexcusably killed the story last year. 
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Amigo, you posted WaPo in the OP but didn't credit them.

- Getting past that, and the fact that they had no corroboration, here WaPo has published a story about Dems grappling with the issue based on their reporting.

 
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parasaurolophus said:
This story is what i read. 
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  • “The Virginia Legislative Black Caucus takes all allegations of sexual assault or misconduct with the utmost seriousness,” the group wrote. “Given the recent allegations regarding Lieutenant Gov. Justin Fairfax, the VLBC will continue to assess this developing situation as more details become available.”
  • DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF VIRGINIA STATEMENT: "All allegations of sexual assault deserve to be taken with profound gravity. We will continue to evaluate the situation regarding Lieutenant Governor Fairfax."
  • “The facts here are still being determined,” the caucuses said. “Every individual deserves the opportunity to be heard, and we respect anyone who comes forward to share their story.”
  •  “Every person who has a claim that they have been sexually assaulted deserves to tell their own story in their time and that’s not yet happened,” Kaine said.
Though at the end there are some terrible  "avoiding the topic" type comments, I think the above pretty much contradicts the assertions that democrats are treating this differently.  Even the "avoiding the topic" comments seem to be run of the mill typical political speak.

 
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sho nuff said:
Ive yet to see that...everywhere just says sexual assault or misconduct.  I will retract that part of it...but just calling it a credible accusation of rape or very credible as Ive seen from some seems to be misguided at this point.
Click to expand...


The Post responded by publishing its own version of events in which it acknowledged that it had looked into the claim in November 2017 and revealed that the accuser alleged that Fairfax had physically coerced her into performing oral sex in 2004. The newspaper declined to publish the story because it felt it could not corroborate the charge, but it also denied finding “red flags.”
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Link.  I don't believe or disbelieve this accusation at this point -- it's too early to reach a conclusion.  But what's being described here is unambiguously rape.

 
jon_mx said:
1.  The other thread is about a different person and a yearbook photo, not about rape.  A guy who is probably about to become a governor with a credible rape claim against him deserves a thread.  

2.  There were immediately numerous calls for Kavanaugh's nomination to be withdrawn 
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I think 1 is a good point. But on 2 like Ivan said, meh, Lt Gov, even if maybe the next Governor, of VA is not the same level of national interest. - Eh let's see an exposee of Billy Nungesser, interested?

 
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Bottomfeeder Sports said:
“The Virginia Legislative Black Caucus takes all allegations of sexual assault or misconduct with the utmost seriousness,” the group wrote. “Given the recent allegations regarding Lieutenant Gov. Justin Fairfax, the VLBC will continue to assess this developing situation as more details become available.”

DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF VIRGINIA STATEMENT: "All allegations of sexual assault deserve to be taken with profound gravity. We will continue to evaluate the situation regarding Lieutenant Governor Fairfax."

“The facts here are still being determined,” the caucuses said. “Every individual deserves the opportunity to be heard, and we respect anyone who comes forward to share their story.”

 “Every person who has a claim that they have been sexually assaulted deserves to tell their own story in their time and that’s not yet happened,” Kaine said.

Though at the end there are some terrible  "avoiding the topic" type comments, I think the above pretty much contradicts the assertions that democrats are treating this differently.  Even the "avoiding the topic" comments seem to be run of the mill typical political speak.
Click to expand...
Busy with bills and focused on matters at hand right now.” She then briskly walked away.

When asked about providing an opportunity for the accuser to testify, Del. Hala Ayala (D) appeared to remember something she urgently needed to attend to and walked away.

Del. Karrie Delaney (D) did not reply to a question about whether Fairfax’s accuser deserved a hearing in the General Assembly

We believe [Fairfax]

I’m going to make no further comment than referring you back to the lieutenant governor’s statement

“I have lots of thoughts ― but not for you,” said state Del. Chris Hurst (D), before abruptly walking through a side door off the House of Delegates floor.

 
jon_mx said:
3. The media did not sit on the story for a year 4.  Ford was declared a hero 5.  People who dared questioned the credibility of Ford were attacked
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I pointed this out in the other thread, but this comp doesn't hold. 

Ford wrote a letter to her Congresswoman, who gave it to her Senator. It was held for 2 months. Then Feinstein released it. Then there was controversy for another month. Then Ford testified, under oath, and so did Kavanaugh, and then actual credibility determinations could be made. 

Right now you've got a snip of a private Facebook post, maybe shared without permission, and a WaPo self-report where they explain why they did not report on the claim yet still did not do a full report on the claim. The accuser has not come forward. That ain't gonna remove any politician from office from Rhode Island to Alaska, R or D.

 
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parasaurolophus said:
Busy with bills and focused on matters at hand right now.” She then briskly walked away.

When asked about providing an opportunity for the accuser to testify, Del. Hala Ayala (D) appeared to remember something she urgently needed to attend to and walked away.

Del. Karrie Delaney (D) did not reply to a question about whether Fairfax’s accuser deserved a hearing in the General Assembly

We believe [Fairfax]

I’m going to make no further comment than referring you back to the lieutenant governor’s statement

“I have lots of thoughts ― but not for you,” said state Del. Chris Hurst (D), before abruptly walking through a side door off the House of Delegates floor.
Click to expand...
Except for the "We believe" statement these are all run of the mill variations of "no comment".  They are "avoiding the topic" as I said.    So only John Edwards' comment was dismissive of the claim. 

 
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