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Anybody use Bluenile.com for purchasing diamonds? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter TripItUp
- Start date
TripItUp
Footballguy
johnnycakes
Footballguy
I just checked my purchase history with them.... 18 purchases since 2010, including a wedding ring and some custom diamond earrings. She's happy with everything I've bought her over the years from Blue Nile, so I'm a satisfied customer. Never had any issues... but never had to return anything, either, but I've heard returns are handled promptly and smoothly.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
As a person that has been in the jewelry industry for 25 years---buying any diamond online is risky. Blue Nile sells diamonds that are beautiful and they also sell diamonds that are less than desirable relative to their graded metrics. There is a big misconception that every diamond that is the same size that is graded at a certain color grade and a certain clarity grade is "the same". Even with the best laboratory (GIA) certifying diamonds--each color and clarity grade is reflective of a small "range" of color or clarity.
I use this example a lot when trying to explain things. In the world of diamonds--a stone can go from being completely colorless to being a very light yellow color (I'm not going into the world of fancy colored diamonds here). If you were looking at the world of paint colors for this same spectrum--there would easily be hundreds of choices that fell into this range of color. In diamonds--they are graded from D color to Z color--literally only 23 categories. This means that you can have a G color diamond that is barely above an H--or you can have a G color diamond that is kissing the border of being an F. This means that you can have two diamonds that are graded by the best lab in the planet as being the same color--and if you saw them next to each other--they could look almost 2 color differences apart.
The same thing can be said about clarity. Keep in mind that a clarity grade is predominately dependent on the volume of inclusions first and the visibility of them second. You could have a diamond that has a really good clarity grade that only has one or two inclusions--but those inclusions could be of the variety that are visible to the naked eye. On the other hand--you can have a stone that has several imperfections (graded as being medium to poor clarity)--but those imperfections can be clouds or feathers which can be effectively be invisible to the naked eye. You mix that on top of the dynamic mentioned above in regards to color--you can have a VS2 clarity diamond that is barely above being an SI1 or you can have a VS2 clarity diamond that is barely below a VS1..etc.
This is why if you do a diamond search on Blue Nile for a particular diamond (lets say round brilliant cut, 2 carats, G color, VS2 clarity..etc)--you will see that even on Blue Nile that there is a pretty massive range of prices for stones that are effectively certified as being the same color and clarity. There is a reason why certain diamonds sell for more money than others. There is also a reason why certain stones are marketed online by brokers and not in brick and mortar stores. In brick and mortar stores--stones that do not live up to their metrics are hard to sell because they are by nature sitting next to dozens of other stones that do live up to their metrics--and the differences can be seen live in person. When purchasing a diamond online--you are basically purchasing based on how it looks on paper and nothing more. While these diamonds might have appraisal values or "insurance values" that might make you happy--it doesn't mean that you are getting the same caliber of stone that you might have gotten in nice brick and mortar locations.
In regards to trusting jewelers--you really should change your mind about that. The jewelry trade is no different than any other trade. There are great honest jewelers and there are crappy dishonest ones too. The same could be said about doctors, lawyers, accountants, mechanics, police officers, and any other profession on the planet. I assure you there is probably the same amount (if not more) dishonesty occurring online than there is dealing with a reputable brick and mortar business these days. You have to remember that all jewelry requires maintenance. If you buy a piece of jewelry and lets say it gets damaged or a prong wears out 3 years later--you think Blue Nile will have your back and help you? Most jewelry insurance companies require that a jeweler clean and inspect the piece of jewelry once or twice a year to maintain jewelry insurance--you think Blue Nile will help you there? Yes--maybe you save a few bucks on your initial purchase when you buy something online--but many times you are also doing so at the expense of sacrificing a massive amount of long term customer service. In any case--I think the point that I'm trying to make is that on commoditized items like diamonds--you generally get what you pay for unless you go to a business where you are paying a premium for their branding or heritage. Regardless of what and where you purchase--I hope that your jewelry shopping experience is a postive one.
I use this example a lot when trying to explain things. In the world of diamonds--a stone can go from being completely colorless to being a very light yellow color (I'm not going into the world of fancy colored diamonds here). If you were looking at the world of paint colors for this same spectrum--there would easily be hundreds of choices that fell into this range of color. In diamonds--they are graded from D color to Z color--literally only 23 categories. This means that you can have a G color diamond that is barely above an H--or you can have a G color diamond that is kissing the border of being an F. This means that you can have two diamonds that are graded by the best lab in the planet as being the same color--and if you saw them next to each other--they could look almost 2 color differences apart.
The same thing can be said about clarity. Keep in mind that a clarity grade is predominately dependent on the volume of inclusions first and the visibility of them second. You could have a diamond that has a really good clarity grade that only has one or two inclusions--but those inclusions could be of the variety that are visible to the naked eye. On the other hand--you can have a stone that has several imperfections (graded as being medium to poor clarity)--but those imperfections can be clouds or feathers which can be effectively be invisible to the naked eye. You mix that on top of the dynamic mentioned above in regards to color--you can have a VS2 clarity diamond that is barely above being an SI1 or you can have a VS2 clarity diamond that is barely below a VS1..etc.
This is why if you do a diamond search on Blue Nile for a particular diamond (lets say round brilliant cut, 2 carats, G color, VS2 clarity..etc)--you will see that even on Blue Nile that there is a pretty massive range of prices for stones that are effectively certified as being the same color and clarity. There is a reason why certain diamonds sell for more money than others. There is also a reason why certain stones are marketed online by brokers and not in brick and mortar stores. In brick and mortar stores--stones that do not live up to their metrics are hard to sell because they are by nature sitting next to dozens of other stones that do live up to their metrics--and the differences can be seen live in person. When purchasing a diamond online--you are basically purchasing based on how it looks on paper and nothing more. While these diamonds might have appraisal values or "insurance values" that might make you happy--it doesn't mean that you are getting the same caliber of stone that you might have gotten in nice brick and mortar locations.
In regards to trusting jewelers--you really should change your mind about that. The jewelry trade is no different than any other trade. There are great honest jewelers and there are crappy dishonest ones too. The same could be said about doctors, lawyers, accountants, mechanics, police officers, and any other profession on the planet. I assure you there is probably the same amount (if not more) dishonesty occurring online than there is dealing with a reputable brick and mortar business these days. You have to remember that all jewelry requires maintenance. If you buy a piece of jewelry and lets say it gets damaged or a prong wears out 3 years later--you think Blue Nile will have your back and help you? Most jewelry insurance companies require that a jeweler clean and inspect the piece of jewelry once or twice a year to maintain jewelry insurance--you think Blue Nile will help you there? Yes--maybe you save a few bucks on your initial purchase when you buy something online--but many times you are also doing so at the expense of sacrificing a massive amount of long term customer service. In any case--I think the point that I'm trying to make is that on commoditized items like diamonds--you generally get what you pay for unless you go to a business where you are paying a premium for their branding or heritage. Regardless of what and where you purchase--I hope that your jewelry shopping experience is a postive one.
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Captain Cranks
Footballguy
I purchased a 1.1 ct loose F, VVS2 diamond from them about a year ago. Took it into the local jeweler to see if they could compete. They couldn't come within $2k of what I paid. I found the Viraggio setting online too and paid my local jeweler $100 to set it. They appraised the ring for $8k more than I paid all in.
P.S. make sure you don't only consider color and clarity, but dimensions. Certain cuts have different 'optimal' dimensions to make them more brilliant.
P.S. make sure you don't only consider color and clarity, but dimensions. Certain cuts have different 'optimal' dimensions to make them more brilliant.
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I think they always appraise diamonds very high. Good luck ever selling it anywhere near that amount(not saying you're trying).
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
I'm currently in the process and after months of research I've settled with working with a broker I found on Pricescope.com (the FBG of diamonds).
The broker is the cheapest prices I've seen online for loose stones and I'll get the setting done locally. I'll be looking to buying within the month, so I could give you feedback on his service if you have a longer timeline.
From my research if you want the best bang for your buck...
CUT: Ideal/Excellent (do not go down - sparkle is based on this the most)
CLARITY: VS1-SI1 (Keep in mind the grade is based on face up and using a 10x magnification, so SI1 is generally eye clean but you need to verify and anything more than VS1 is status/overkill).
COLOR: G-I (make sure no no brown tint, especially if "I" color. Only really able to tell difference if diamonds are side by side).
CARAT: whatever your budget allows playing around with the other 3 factors. Make note that diamonds with the same carat don't have the same diameter. If you're following the ideal proportions, then they'll generally be the same size but can vary widely if not.
You also want Polish and Symmetry to be EXCELLENT (GIA Triple EX - cut/polish/symmetry). You could save a bit to go down to very good, but there's plenty GIA XXX online might as well.
Proportions/angles also matter since a diamond can have CUT graded as "ideal/excellent" but not cut to GIA/AGS ideal proportions and not be mathematically cut to maximize sparkle. Use diamondscreener.com to make sure the diamond is GIA/AGS Ideal Proportions and also the HCA tool on pricescope to make sure it will sparkle.
You could certainly go higher with than the ranges I gave you, but most people can't tell. Before you by online...it is IMPORTANT to still look at stones in person first. That way you can get a real feel of what you can really tell. I spent about a month looking at stones online, but a couple hours at a local store helped me immensely.
Good luck.
The broker is the cheapest prices I've seen online for loose stones and I'll get the setting done locally. I'll be looking to buying within the month, so I could give you feedback on his service if you have a longer timeline.
From my research if you want the best bang for your buck...
CUT: Ideal/Excellent (do not go down - sparkle is based on this the most)
CLARITY: VS1-SI1 (Keep in mind the grade is based on face up and using a 10x magnification, so SI1 is generally eye clean but you need to verify and anything more than VS1 is status/overkill).
COLOR: G-I (make sure no no brown tint, especially if "I" color. Only really able to tell difference if diamonds are side by side).
CARAT: whatever your budget allows playing around with the other 3 factors. Make note that diamonds with the same carat don't have the same diameter. If you're following the ideal proportions, then they'll generally be the same size but can vary widely if not.
You also want Polish and Symmetry to be EXCELLENT (GIA Triple EX - cut/polish/symmetry). You could save a bit to go down to very good, but there's plenty GIA XXX online might as well.
Proportions/angles also matter since a diamond can have CUT graded as "ideal/excellent" but not cut to GIA/AGS ideal proportions and not be mathematically cut to maximize sparkle. Use diamondscreener.com to make sure the diamond is GIA/AGS Ideal Proportions and also the HCA tool on pricescope to make sure it will sparkle.
You could certainly go higher with than the ranges I gave you, but most people can't tell. Before you by online...it is IMPORTANT to still look at stones in person first. That way you can get a real feel of what you can really tell. I spent about a month looking at stones online, but a couple hours at a local store helped me immensely.
Good luck.
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Captain Cranks
Footballguy
That's not the point. I had the same experience Cranks had. Two local jewelry stores appraised the earrings I purchased from Blue Nile much higher than I paid. And neither of them were able to sell me a pair of studs composed of the same grade of diamonds. I gave them the opportunity to.
I wanted to buy local. But it made no sense.
Now I did pass on Blue Nile for a Past, Present, Future ring because it is white gold and requires dipping every so often. Blue Nile would do that for a fee. Locally they offered dipping for free over the lifetime of the ring.
Blue Nile is my go to for diamond jewelry.
culdeus
Footballguy
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
Regardless, the local jeweler who did the appraisal wasn't within $2K of the price I paid on BN. The gemologist looked at the diamond and said I should keep it. He didn't have anything comparable at that price point. I would have had to move down the quality list noticeably to buy something from them at the same price.
culdeus
Footballguy
That doesn't mean you got a great deal. Again, part of the scam with this stuff. With a commodity market it is just as important to inflate the TAM as it is to maintain margin.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
I bought a diamond solitaire pendant from Blue Nile 2 Christmases ago, and it's fantastic. Diamond looks great, price was great, setting was great - no complaints. A LOT cheaper than most other places that had similar pieces. I probably paid 20-25% or more less than the brick-and-mortar stores in the area.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Bought my wife's engagement ring from there a few years ago. Easy process, easy to work with. No complaints.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
Well if BN's inflated price is $2K less than the B&M inflated price for the same quality, I'll consider it a great deal.
With my purchases I researched, compared and negotiated with a few local jewelry stores. I brought the specs I wanted and asked for their best price.
Each time Blue Nile beat the local stores. My diamonds from Blue Nile come with certs and etching. And their appraisals came back higher.
Wife is happy too. Of course diamonds are a scam. But if we are going to buy them to make our wives happy, its good knowing you put the time and effort into making sure you got quality diamonds at a good price. Not sure what else you could ask.
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jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
This is just not true. The biggest misconception is in regards to what consumers think that appraisals are reflective of. In the world of jewelry the vast majority of appraisals are for the sole purpose of jewelry insurance. Insurance companies cannot use GIA certificates for insurance policies because the GIA does not assign monetary values to any stones that get submitted to them.
Most people are under the impression that an appraisal means that you can easily "sell" an item for the value listed on the appraisal--which isn't true. A jewelry appraisal is a retail value that needs to be accurate for generally 3-5 years after the date the appraisal was performed. This is because most insurance companies generally only require updating appraisals after 3-5 years. Effectively that means that virtually any piece of jewelry that anybody buys should appraise for decently more than what you paid for it. If you look at diamonds in general--they generally go up a few percentage points per year. Even if the appraiser only figures a 2-3% increase every year for 5 years (which isn't hugely more than one could project the rate of inflation to be)--an appraisal value would come much higher than purchase price. Also--keep in mind that a jewelry appraisal is reflective of making the described item from the group up exactly or as close to it as possible. Therefore--if you buy a diamond that doesn't live up to it's graded metrics (like the ones that I mentioned in the first post that I made in this thread)--the fact that it's a less than desirable diamond relative to its graded metrics will not be reflected in its appraisal value. If you have a diamond that is a G color that is barely above an H, and a VS2 clarity that is barely above an SI1--it will appraise the same as a G color diamond that is on the brink of being an F and a VS2 that is on the brink of being a VS1. That is because there are price lists that come out monthly that break down diamond prices that are sorted by size, color, shape, cut and clarity. The price lists don't take into account that each color and clarity range are actually reflective of small ranges of color and clarity. That explains why if you try to sell a diamond to somebody in the trade that doesn't live up to its metrics--you will get offered a far lower value than a diamond that over-exceeds its metrics. A "replacement" value versus "how much can I sell this for now" are two completely different things.
The fact of the matter is that there is a reason why if you try to sell some items--you get pennies on the dollar versus appraisal value--and for some items--you get a very high percentage of appraisal value. Items that are hard to sell and items that do not live up to their graded metrics are generally items that don't command a high retention value in regards to selling them on the secondary market. Appraisals in the world of jewelry are vastly misunderstood by most consumers.
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jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
More likely than not---it's not because the B&M price was inflated--its more likely because your stone (while beautiful) may not look like what the optimum F VVS2 diamond might look like. Perhaps the F was not close to an E, perhaps the VVS2 was barely above a VS1, maybe the stone has faint or medium flouresences...etc. Diamonds are a commodity--there is a reason why some are sold online for a discount and why some sell at Brick and Mortar for a premium. Blue Nile doesn't go around buying every diamond in their inventory. Much of their inventory is supplied to them on a memo/consignment basis by diamond brokers. Many of these brokers also supply diamonds to brick and mortar locations--so there is a reason why brokers choose to market some stones online versus some in person.
As I said earlier--stones that over-exceed their certified metrics in person will sell for a premium when people can clearly see that those metrics are over-exceeded. This is not possible online. When buying a diamond online--you are buying based solely on what the certificate says on paper. For example--I just went on BlueNile now--and did a search for: round brilliant cut diamond, 1.10ct-1.15ct, F color, VVS2 clarity, ideal cut. They have 15 diamonds. The most inexpensive one is $8400 and the priciest one is over $12k. Do you think that one of them is priced 50% higher than the lowest one because one broker wanted to make more "margin" selling on the exact same platform? Keep in mind that both of these diamonds would roughly appraise for the same amount. Again--I think your diamond is most likely beautiful--and you most likely got a nice deal---but the reality is that on commodity items--you generally get what you pay for. Regardless--as a member of the jewelry community--I'm just pleased when anybody has a positive experience when purchasing jewelry. That's very good for the trade in general and I'm happy that you ended up with a beautiful diamond at a price that you are happy with.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
The bolded simply isn't true. BlueNile provides a pretty amazing 360* magnified view. See I preferred this view to the views in the store where store lighting greatly impacts our opinion of brilliance. Plus, BN has an excellent return policy so if you wanted to compare a specific diamond to something at a store and came out the loser, it can easily be returned.
As for the price difference between the diamonds you searched for, much of that difference is due to each diamond's dimensions which ultimately translate to brilliance. Fluorescence also greatly impacts price.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I can assure you that no picture of a diamond can replace seeing a diamond in person. The brilliance of a diamond is something that can only be accurately evaluated in person. Yes--their return policy is absolutey great and notice that I haven't said anything to "impune" Blue Nile. I clearly said that they sell diamonds that are both beautiful and they sell diamonds that are discounted for a reason.
The difference in the pricing of diamonds is due to far more than just "dimensions". Dimensions are one of many major factors that come into play when determining how much a diamond can command on the market. There are lots of moving parts that effect pricing. No diamond broker is going to sell a perfect commoditized item for 20-40% below market value for no reason. As a veteran and an expert in the trade with over 25 years of experience--I'm just explaining why some diamonds are priced below others. Most people think that they can do some research online and think that they are well versed in the jewelry and diamond trade. That's just not the case. Much of the stuff that I'm saying in here is not very avaialble online because this "truth" about why some diamonds are priced less than others is not beneficial to these online brokers and websites that are trying to sell them. Again--I'm happy that you got a beautiful diamond and that your experience with Blue Nile has been very positive.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
I understand the value of looking at stones in person and the expertise of a jeweler, but in general online prices are cheaper because they don't have to pay rent for a brick and mortar location and can get by on volume compared to nation wide B&M.
Even small local jewelers can't beat online prices, not because they are selling an inferior diamond (I've given local jewelers a GIA# for a brokered diamond found online and they couldn't match the price) but just because they need larger margins bc of overhead and can't match the volume of an online store.
I do agree that service from a local jeweler is great for maintenance so that's why I'm grinning a custom made setting and also why I'm buying through a vetted wholesaler with decades of experience.
Also online at jamesallen and blue nile you have pictures and video that are waaaaay easier to spot inclusions vs seeing them through a loupe or magnify machine. Sure there are duds, but even local jewelers have duds...I went to a couple and not all their stones are GIA XXX, which you can get online for cheaper.
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TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Great post. The other point I would add is that you can save additional money from Blue Nile and inspect in person if you buy from a reputable jeweler in the diamond district. This is what I did in NYC and had a great experience overall. Message me if you want the info. These jewelers may also be able to call in stones from other sources for you to check out.jvdesigns2002 said:
What you should absolutely never do is buy from shopping mall retailers. It blows my mind that people pay double for half the quality at places like this.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Yes and No. Certainly overhead has a substantial impact on the pricing structure of diamonds from business to business. That is 1000% true. However--not every brick and mortar is created equally. Take for example the store that I manage. We are located in a very wealthy demographic in regards to location--but our shop is only 900 square feet. Our showroom is only 450 square feet. We are a high volume store in regards to our business and cater to clients that want really nice quality goods without paying the massive premiums that the stores with "heritage" and "Legacies" charge for similar quality items. So while our overhead is high-but because we are not located in a mall where you are guaranteed a few thousand people walking by every day--we need to offer great quality at great prices to keep our foot traffic and business busy. The word of mouth keeps us busy year round--and we aren't a typical mall shop that has to make really high margins in order to keep their doors open. I assure you that there are well priced reputable independent jewelers in most major cities.
Remember--my point is not that Blue Nile only carries stones that do not live up to their graded parameters. My point is that they carry both really nice goods as well as stones that under achieve their metrics. If you read my above post--I did a search today for 1.10-1.15 carat round brilliant cut diamonds-F color, VVS2 clarity, Ideal cut--and the price range on Blue Nile was $8500 to over $12k. I assure you that the vast majority of shoppers that buy on blue nile are not buying the stones that they have priced on the medium to high range of their pricing spectrum. Most shoppers that don't know the massive "ins and outs" of diamonds will make their selection based on the lower to medium end of what Blue Nile offers--which are typically the types of stones that I am speaking about. If the average blue nile shopper compared the diamonds in the medium to high range of their pricing spectrum and compared that to similar diamonds at well priced independent brick and mortars--the pricing difference would be very small or non existent. This doesn't mean that I think that Blue Nile is ripping people off--they aren't. Their prices are fair. It's just that their lower priced goods are generally not diamonds that brick and mortars want to carry or want to have access to. The last thing that a nice brick and mortar store wants is a customer saying "hey--I see that you have 2 diamonds that are both GIA certified as being the same size, color, and clarity--and one looks whiter and brighter than the other--why is this the case?".
Here is just an example based on current diamond price lists. Lets say a 2 carat round brilliant cut diamond at G color and VS2 clarity--GIA certified and XXX in regards to cut. Current list price on a stone like that is $14,500/ct=. $29,000. Hypothetically--lets say that you have a really great color G that is basically on the border of being an F--and the VS2 is on the brink of being a VS1. This means that to the naked eye--you could have a G VS2 diamond that looks virtually identical to an F VS1. List price on an F VS1 is $19000/ct= $38000. Literally you can have a diamond that has a list price of $29000 that looks like a $38000 diamond. I assure you that diamonds like this are not being sold at discounted rates. On the other hand--you can have a G color diamond (same 2 carat size) that is barely above an H and barely above the border of SI1 also with XXX. The list price for H SI1 is $11,000/ct= $22000. This shows that you can have a stone that has a $29k list price that effectively looks like a $22k stone. Stones like this need to be discounted to sell--and stones like this are hard to sell in brick and mortar locations. These are diamonds that diamond brokers refer to as "internet diamonds". Let's say Blue Nile sold one of these diamonds for $24k or $25k. If the person buying it takes it to a jeweler--a jeweler would have to appraise it for current list price ($29k) +3-5 year premium--which could easily end up in a $33-35k appraisal. The jeweler will tell the person--yes--you got a nice deal because you paid $4-5K less than list price--and the person ends up being happy--and deservingly so. However--this dynamic does not mean that the diamond that Blue Nile sold them is comparable to a diamond that has the same metrics at a brick and mortar location. Different "goods" command different "prices"--and even goods that are certified as being the same color/clarity/cut from the exact same laboratory are not necessarily parallel at all.
Bossman
Footballguy
Wife had her wedding ring stolen in a home break in. I purchased a new wedding ring thru Ritani (Blue Nile competitor).
https://www.ritani.com/diamonds
I loved being able to sit on my couch and view inventory by size, color, clarity, ... the gia report shows the saddle (how short and fat ... or tall and skinny) as well as any flaws.
Paid a stink ton of $$ for a REALLY nice ring. Shocked they shipped it regular UPS or whatever it was.
I understand that when internet shopping a diamond, a G might almost be an H or almost an F ... but my untrained eye can't tell the difference /// unless maybe if they're side by side ... and that's not happening.
No regrets.
https://www.ritani.com/diamonds
I loved being able to sit on my couch and view inventory by size, color, clarity, ... the gia report shows the saddle (how short and fat ... or tall and skinny) as well as any flaws.
Paid a stink ton of $$ for a REALLY nice ring. Shocked they shipped it regular UPS or whatever it was.
I understand that when internet shopping a diamond, a G might almost be an H or almost an F ... but my untrained eye can't tell the difference /// unless maybe if they're side by side ... and that's not happening.
No regrets.
Softballguy
Footballguy
This is what I did.
Got a great deal from BN, took it to a local jewelry store to compare. There was no comparison - the BN diamond looked absolutely awful compared to the diamond in the store. But the return process was painless.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
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