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Amazon and no taxes (1 Viewer)

Hate the game, not the player....

But even though Trump previously blasted Amazon for its limited state taxes—a single presidential tweet caused the company’s shares to fall by 9%—ITEP notes that its non-existent federal tax payment is a result of the Trump Administration’s corporation-friendly tax cuts. The think tank writes that the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act not only decreased corporate tax rates from 35% to 21%, but it also didn’t close “a slew of tax loopholes that allow profitable companies to routinely avoid paying federal and state income taxes on almost half of their profits.”

 
The fact that Amazon gets away with charging no sales tax is also a kick in the face to local brick and mortar stores.  

 
I haven't studied Amazon's return, but, from the snippets that I've picked up from articles, they have a whole lot of NOL and tax credit carryforwards.

 
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I just checked my order history and they collected tax on some order but not others. Not sure why.
I think it may depend if it is actually Amazon or if it is a third party selling through Amazon.  I believe in 2018 Amazon agreed to collect sales tax in all states.

 
I just checked my order history and they collected tax on some order but not others. Not sure why.

ETA: Yes, harm to brick and mortars is a big problem.
I believe that's changed.  internet sellers who don't collect state tax now need to send you a statement for the state taxes you were supposed to pay, which you are then obligated to report.

 
I know we’ve talked about this in the past but seeing this made me think again.

Can you guys help me understand here? Feels like there must be way more to the story.

http://fortune.com/2019/02/14/amazon-doesnt-pay-federal-taxes-2019/
I'm not a corporate tax expert, but I know that corporate taxes are very complicated and there's usually an excellent, justifiable reason for the items that commonly get labeled as "loopholes."  Carry-over losses are a good example.

More generally, though, this kind of analysis misses the point.  "Corporations" don't pay taxes regardless -- their workers (lower wages), stockholders (lower returns), suppliers (lower prices), and consumers (higher prices) do.  In principle, every dollar of corporate income tax is paid by some combination of stakeholders to varying degrees.  In principle, corporate income tax that isn't collected just gets passed on to those stakeholders, who in turn pay income taxes, capital gains taxes, etc.  It's admittedly more complicated than I'm making it sound like, but the idea that Amazon literally generates zero tax revenue is kind of silly.

 
I haven't studied Amazon's return, but, from the snippets that I've picked up from articles, they have a whole lot of NOL and tax credit carryforwards.
That would go a long way towards explaining how book income is so high while actual tax paid is low.  

 
I believe that's changed.  internet sellers who don't collect state tax now need to send you a statement for the state taxes you were supposed to pay, which you are then obligated to report.
Every state has different laws.  So, it's a state-by-state thing.

But the ability of states to collect has really expanded since the Supreme Court decision in Wayfair, as physical nexus of the seller no longer required in the state as it was under the old Quill standard.  I'm not sure the state of play in each state though, and how far some states have gone.

 
I know we’ve talked about this in the past but seeing this made me think again.

Can you guys help me understand here? Feels like there must be way more to the story.

http://fortune.com/2019/02/14/amazon-doesnt-pay-federal-taxes-2019/
The allegedly conservative side of this country has basically prioritized what it calls "job creators" over human beings.  Those "job creators" are often highly profitable corporations, and the argument goes "well, sure, they aren't paying taxes, but they create jobs and the people they hire pay taxes so that's enough."  So we give them whatever they want in order to woo them from other places.

We've gotten far afield from what I believe is reality, which is that most corporations should not be called "job creators" but rather "dependent entities" - they exist only insofar as they can draw resources from other existing entities.  Whereas human beings who work are "wealth creators" - for themselves, sometimes, but more often for corporations and employers.

 
The allegedly conservative side of this country has basically prioritized what it calls "job creators" over human beings.  Those "job creators" are often highly profitable corporations, and the argument goes "well, sure, they aren't paying taxes, but they create jobs and the people they hire pay taxes so that's enough."  So we give them whatever they want in order to woo them from other places.

We've gotten far afield from what I believe is reality, which is that most corporations should not be called "job creators" but rather "dependent entities" - they exist only insofar as they can draw resources from other existing entities.  Whereas human beings who work are "wealth creators" - for themselves, sometimes, but more often for corporations and employers.
I really enjoyed this post. 

 
Also if Amazon has a warehouse in the state they charge tax.  I want to say I've been paying tax for 2 years now if not longer

 
I'm not a corporate tax expert, but I know that corporate taxes are very complicated and there's usually an excellent, justifiable reason for the items that commonly get labeled as "loopholes."  Carry-over losses are a good example.

More generally, though, this kind of analysis misses the point.  "Corporations" don't pay taxes regardless -- their workers (lower wages), stockholders (lower returns), suppliers (lower prices), and consumers (higher prices) do.  In principle, every dollar of corporate income tax is paid by some combination of stakeholders to varying degrees.  In principle, corporate income tax that isn't collected just gets passed on to those stakeholders, who in turn pay income taxes, capital gains taxes, etc.  It's admittedly more complicated than I'm making it sound like, but the idea that Amazon literally generates zero tax revenue is kind of silly.
Agree with most of this; often the fact that a company is paying “zero corporate taxes” is a reflection that as a society we’ve chosen craft tax law in a manner to incentivize the core function/activiity of said corporation.  

 
I’ve purposely been buying less through Amazon for a while now. Honestly, between Costco and Best Buy, I’m not even paying any more than I would on Amazon.

 
Hate the game, not the player....


Likely years of stacked deferred tax credits


The allegedly conservative side of this country has basically prioritized what it calls "job creators" over human beings.  Those "job creators" are often highly profitable corporations, and the argument goes "well, sure, they aren't paying taxes, but they create jobs and the people they hire pay taxes so that's enough."  So we give them whatever they want in order to woo them from other places.

We've gotten far afield from what I believe is reality, which is that most corporations should not be called "job creators" but rather "dependent entities" - they exist only insofar as they can draw resources from other existing entities.  Whereas human beings who work are "wealth creators" - for themselves, sometimes, but more often for corporations and employers.
These all sound good.

There should be a way to reasonably address this. 

 
It’s been like this for literally decades.  I’ve posted somewhere about this before,  but no one seemed to care when Amazon was cool and hip.  Companies like Walmart and Chevron pay their asses off in taxes while others don’t pay anything.  Some companies even have a negative tax rate, example being a green energy company getting grants and kickbacks from the government.  If you didn’t care five or ten years ago, don’t act so surprised now. 

 
dschuler said:
It’s been like this for literally decades.  I’ve posted somewhere about this before,  but no one seemed to care when Amazon was cool and hip.  Companies like Walmart and Chevron pay their asses off in taxes while others don’t pay anything.  Some companies even have a negative tax rate, example being a green energy company getting grants and kickbacks from the government.  If you didn’t care five or ten years ago, don’t act so surprised now.  
Hey, cut the ####.  We are way too involved with important stuff, like The Wall and abortion.  Priorities!

 
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Last time I did my taxes they asked me about internet stuff I didn't pay taxes on. So I guess it's up to us now.
It always has been, only nobody did it.   In the 45 states with sales tax, you're supposed to self-report it as a use tax.  Now more states are requiring the retailer to keep those records and report them.

 
Getting rid of a bunch of different taxes, including corporate taxes, in favor of a VAT like tax seems like a step in the right direction. That would both make eliminate a lot of loopholes while making the actual tax burden more transparent instead of hiding it in many different places along the way.

 
Last time I did my taxes they asked me about internet stuff I didn't pay taxes on. So I guess it's up to us now.
This is different than what Joe is asking about.  Regardless of what Amazon pays in federal taxes, it is still your responsibility to pay sales tax on anything you buy online if it is not already charged.

 
jon_mx said:
I think it may depend if it is actually Amazon or if it is a third party selling through Amazon.  I believe in 2018 Amazon agreed to collect sales tax in all states.
Not sure if it is true or not, but have always heard you only get charged tax if the business has a physical presence in your state.

 
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I'm not worried about Amazon's taxes.

I do, however, wonder why 300,000 social clubs in this country (more commonly known as "churches") are exempt from income and property taxes.

 
Don Quixote said:
I haven't studied Amazon's return, but, from the snippets that I've picked up from articles, they have a whole lot of NOL and tax credit carryforwards.
That makes sense and if true isn’t anything new that’s been around a long time. Unfortunately I’m familiar with it.   :loco:

 
I'm not worried about Amazon's taxes.

I do, however, wonder why 300,000 social clubs in this country (more commonly known as "churches") are exempt from income and property taxes.
Because they're charitable organizations and also because that's part of the separation of church and state I imagine.

 
I'm not worried about Amazon's taxes.

I do, however, wonder why 300,000 social clubs in this country (more commonly known as "churches") are exempt from income and property taxes.
This brings up an interesting point. The attention is almost always from the "other" side. Folks that don't go to church want to know why churches don't pay taxes but don't have a problem with an organization they like not paying taxes. Obviously, Amazon and President Trump are often on opposite sides so the Trump supporters are eager to call out Amazon. They are less eager to call out a pro-Trump business doing the same.

What's interesting though is Amazon seems to be getting attention on this from all sides with Bernie Sanders joining in. 

 
I'm not worried about Amazon's taxes.

I do, however, wonder why 300,000 social clubs in this country (more commonly known as "churches") are exempt from income and property taxes.
Why call out churches and not other nonprofit organization who receive the same federal income tax exemption?  

 
I'm not worried about Amazon's taxes.

I do, however, wonder why 300,000 social clubs in this country (more commonly known as "churches") are exempt from income and property taxes.
This.........ask the 25,000-35,000 job holders if they care what taxes amazon pays.  Policiticians look out for themselves, never the people.  Nevermind the foot traffic and residual effect the business would have had.  LIC is kind of a dump and a beautification would have gone a long way to revitalizing that area too.  I would vote these people out next chance I get.

 
Amazon is a fascinating case for both sides liking and disliking them for various reasons. 

As we get more and more power consolidated into fewer private entities the MAGA Trump Supporter and Free College/Healthcare/Childcare Bernie Supporters will find common enemies. They are essentially complaining about the same things. 

 

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