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Switzerland herion solution (1 Viewer)

Interesting approach, don't think it will work here.

Population of Switzerland: 8,585,578

Population of United States: 328,271,680

I'd venture we might have as many heroin addicts as they do population, not really but you get the idea.
Portugal did something similar too.  But putting things to the LCD.  We couldn't scale up to a solution that works?

 
Interesting approach, don't think it will work here.

Population of Switzerland: 8,585,578

Population of United States: 328,271,680

I'd venture we might have as many heroin addicts as they do population, not really but you get the idea.
Did you read the study?   And how they gave people a reason to live?  That was the true cure.

 
Portugal did something similar too.  But putting things to the LCD.  We couldn't scale up to a solution that works?
It would be freaking massive. Can't see the government getting behind state funded drug administration on that kind of scale. War on Drugs and all that. Too much $$$ in perpetuating the illegal drug trade. How do you think the CIA/NSA fund all that stuff you never hear about?

 
Do you have that study?  Was it the same?
Sorry, it was a reference to The Wire.  In one season they try to set up a part of town called "Hamsterdam" where drug laws wouldn't be enforced and it went badly.

In the real world, I agree with you that we should be trying more stuff like what's going on in Switzerland and Portugal.

 
It would be freaking massive. Can't see the government getting behind state funded drug administration on that kind of scale. War on Drugs and all that. Too much $$$ in perpetuating the illegal drug trade. How do you think the CIA/NSA fund all that stuff you never hear about?
It lowers the crime rate, makes cities cleaner, eliminates illegal prositution.  They tried our way first.  Go for all.

 
Did you read the study?   And how they gave people a reason to live?  That was the true cure.
Yea I did, I'm just saying that works on a minimal scale, we're talking 10's to the thousands more people in the states. Logistically how we going pull that off? Can't even fix the ####### bridges in this country but we're going to administer millions of hits of heroin to an addicted population? No way government could pull that off even if they wanted to and they don't, see above post regarding drug funding.

 
Sorry, it was a reference to The Wire.  In one season they try to set up a part of town called "Hamsterdam" where drug laws wouldn't be enforced and it went badly.

In the real world, I agree with you that we should be trying more stuff like what's going on in Switzerland and Portugal.
I know the wire just didn't connect it.

 
It lowers the crime rate, makes cities cleaner, eliminates illegal prositution.  They tried our way first.  Go for all.
All great things, won't work here because of scale. I'm not against it, I want all my brothers and sisters to kick it but this kind of program, on this massive of a scale, won't work in the US. Small, private efforts, maybe. Government funded and run across the country, no way.

 
Yea I did, I'm just saying that works on a minimal scale, we're talking 10's to the thousands more people in the states. Logistically how we going pull that off? Can't even fix the ####### bridges in this country but we're going to administer millions of hits of heroin to an addicted population? No way government could pull that off even if they wanted to and they don't, see above post regarding drug funding.
You got to give a crap and focus on what is important.  Let them shoot up and pour concrete.  It seems people know of better ways to solve problems, I'm just done with the cost aspects of it.  I firmly believe they save money and people in the end.

 
All great things, won't work here because of scale. I'm not against it, I want all my brothers and sisters to kick it but this kind of program, on this massive of a scale, won't work in the US. Small, private efforts, maybe. Government funded and run across the country, no way.
It's just bad thought.  Our way doesn't work.  We can scale if we want.  You only scale once.  You won't have to again.

 
You got to give a crap and focus on what is important.  Let them shoot up and pour concrete.  It seems people know of better ways to solve problems, I'm just done with the cost aspects of it.  I firmly believe they save money and people in the end.
Most of the guys pouring concrete today probably do shoot up :D

Believing in it is one thing, logistically setting it up and doing it is entirely another thing. Like the argument of paying college players, lot of people scream from the mountain top we have to pay them! Nobody has any clue what happens after that, how do you do it? Do you scale it per sport? Per player? Do stars get more than bench players? Etc.

Same thing with this, great idea, works on a small scale, will not work here. Not with the government involved. WE CAN'T FIGURE OUT UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, now you want to start shooting up junkies and monitoring their progress? Pie in the sky Cav.

 
I'm depends. Are we talking about helping lower income brown people or middle class white people?

One of those definitely won't fly..

 
Most of the guys pouring concrete today probably do shoot up :D

Believing in it is one thing, logistically setting it up and doing it is entirely another thing. Like the argument of paying college players, lot of people scream from the mountain top we have to pay them! Nobody has any clue what happens after that, how do you do it? Do you scale it per sport? Per player? Do stars get more than bench players? Etc.

Same thing with this, great idea, works on a small scale, will not work here. Not with the government involved. WE CAN'T FIGURE OUT UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, now you want to start shooting up junkies and monitoring their progress? Pie in the sky Cav.
It might be pie in the sky, yet I am the one with faith here.  Your answer is we can't do it, I say we need to.  God works in mysterious way.

 
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Most of the guys pouring concrete today probably do shoot up :D

Believing in it is one thing, logistically setting it up and doing it is entirely another thing. Like the argument of paying college players, lot of people scream from the mountain top we have to pay them! Nobody has any clue what happens after that, how do you do it? Do you scale it per sport? Per player? Do stars get more than bench players? Etc.

Same thing with this, great idea, works on a small scale, will not work here. Not with the government involved. WE CAN'T FIGURE OUT UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, now you want to start shooting up junkies and monitoring their progress? Pie in the sky Cav.
With college players all you have to do is allow them to make money off their own likeness,  with probably just a few simple rules in place.  If some high profile player wants to do a McDonalds commercial, just ####### allow it.

 
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It might be pie in the sky, yet I am the one with faith here.  Your answer is we can't do it, I say we need to.  God works in mysterious way.
Well you gotta believe in Him before you start invoking His name so...

Again, you can pound your fist on the table and scream from the mountain top that we, as a society, need to do this! And I don't disagree, I'm just challenging you on how we gonna pull this off? Just saying the government needs to do it isn't any more of an answer than me saying we can't do it. I've said, conceptually. I agree with you and what we are doing today isn't working. What I dont' agree with is saying the government should & can run the program like Switzerland is. What gives you the belief our government could pull this off?

 
Well you gotta believe in Him before you start invoking His name so...

Again, you can pound your fist on the table and scream from the mountain top that we, as a society, need to do this! And I don't disagree, I'm just challenging you on how we gonna pull this off? Just saying the government needs to do it isn't any more of an answer than me saying we can't do it. I've said, conceptually. I agree with you and what we are doing today isn't working. What I dont' agree with is saying the government should & can run the program like Switzerland is. What gives you the belief our government could pull this off?
Progressives, they actually care about people.

 
Well you gotta believe in Him before you start invoking His name so...

Again, you can pound your fist on the table and scream from the mountain top that we, as a society, need to do this! And I don't disagree, I'm just challenging you on how we gonna pull this off? Just saying the government needs to do it isn't any more of an answer than me saying we can't do it. I've said, conceptually. I agree with you and what we are doing today isn't working. What I dont' agree with is saying the government should & can run the program like Switzerland is. What gives you the belief our government could pull this off?
How about if states started doing it. When they arrest an addict they give them the choice of this path. Treat it kind of like checking in with your parole officer. Seems like it could be handled pretty easily at the state or even county level.

 
Progressives, they actually care about people.
C'mon man, you know I care

How about if states started doing it. When they arrest an addict they give them the choice of this path. Treat it kind of like checking in with your parole officer. Seems like it could be handled pretty easily at the state or even county level.
That's kinda how I see this having a chance, at the State level. I like the concept but then it comes to funding. States pretty routinely have $0 cash so where is this money coming from because it's not going to be a cheap fix (no pun intended). You need facilities, administrators and then manufacture the dope. I'd also challenge that there are a lot of States I'd think you would have a hard time passing this legislation because

Where can I get some herion?
See what I mean?

 
C'mon man, you know I care

That's kinda how I see this having a chance, at the State level. I like the concept but then it comes to funding. States pretty routinely have $0 cash so where is this money coming from because it's not going to be a cheap fix (no pun intended). You need facilities, administrators and then manufacture the dope. I'd also challenge that there are a lot of States I'd think you would have a hard time passing this legislation because

See what I mean?
I mean I get your point but what I am best at is looking at problem and finding solutions.  This is proven.  What we are doing doesn't work and is more costly.  If you want me to agree that America cares more about the ability to make money than anything else, I'm there.

 
With college players all you have to do is allow them to make money off their own likeness,  with probably just a few simple rules in place.  If some high profile player wants to do a McDonalds commercial, just ####### allow it.
Yeah, the college sports analogy is a bad one. That one's an easy fix, just eliminate the rules against compensation. You don't have to figure any of the rest out, it'll figure itself out.

I support this thread because we always need to be figuring out new tactics when the old ones continually fail. 

 
It should be done. But it won't be done. Too many heads up rectums, too many favors owed by legislators

 
Personally, I say go for it.  The current way is clearly terrible.  Try something new.  Pilot it in a few areas around the county and see what happens.  

This might be a good thing for most of my patient's.  Rather than getting themselves admitted to the hospital every month because they are homeless and spent all their money on drugs, maybe they will spend some money on a place to live since they will get the drugs free.  

The amount of money for those drugs can't possibly cost the taxpayers as much as weeks of inpatient hospitalizations.  

 
I'd say we tackle this right after we help those in bad situations who didn't CHOOSE to be there... hungry children, mentally-ill homeless, vets that had limbs blown off but waiting years on their settlement, AFORDABLE cancer treatments (the one's everyone walked/donated to help create but cost $50K+ to receive), FBguys with E.D., etc, etc. Nice thought though cause I do think the addicted community could use a lot of help.

 
I'd say we tackle this right after we help those in bad situations who didn't CHOOSE to be there... hungry children, mentally-ill homeless, vets that had limbs blown off but waiting years on their settlement, AFORDABLE cancer treatments (the one's everyone walked/donated to help create but cost $50K+ to receive), FBguys with E.D., etc, etc. Nice thought though cause I do think the addicted community could use a lot of help.
I'd say we do all these things. Wait no, let's just give the elite a trillion in tax breaks instead. No muss. no fuss. #letseat

 
won't ever happen until people figure out how to properly monetize all the offshoots of legalized drug use

sort of like the NFL and  gambling

 
I'd say we tackle this right after we help those in bad situations who didn't CHOOSE to be there... hungry children, mentally-ill homeless, vets that had limbs blown off but waiting years on their settlement, AFORDABLE cancer treatments (the one's everyone walked/donated to help create but cost $50K+ to receive), FBguys with E.D., etc, etc. Nice thought though cause I do think the addicted community could use a lot of help.


I'd say we do all these things. Wait no, let's just give the elite a trillion in tax breaks instead. No muss. no fuss. #letseat
These two posts illustrate why this will never happen.

@Rattle and Hum subtle slipping in the ED reference :thumbup:

 
I'd say we tackle this right after we help those in bad situations who didn't CHOOSE to be there... hungry children, mentally-ill homeless, vets that had limbs blown off but waiting years on their settlement, AFORDABLE cancer treatments (the one's everyone walked/donated to help create but cost $50K+ to receive), FBguys with E.D., etc, etc. Nice thought though cause I do think the addicted community could use a lot of help.
Unless I am misinterpreting, the purpose of this is to help improve EVERYTHING, not to "help the addicted".  

 
C'mon man, you know I care

That's kinda how I see this having a chance, at the State level. I like the concept but then it comes to funding. States pretty routinely have $0 cash so where is this money coming from because it's not going to be a cheap fix (no pun intended). You need facilities, administrators and then manufacture the dope. I'd also challenge that there are a lot of States I'd think you would have a hard time passing this legislation because

See what I mean?
Right off the bat you save money on drug enforcement.  I'd be okay with a free distribution model, but am also fine with selling it to users in a regulated, low-cost manner.  Remove the incentive from black market sellers.  Every time they get their drugs they are reminded of treatment programs available to them in a compassionate manner.  Seems like a healthier way of dealing with the problem than what we do now.

 
Personally, I say go for it.  The current way is clearly terrible.  Try something new.  Pilot it in a few areas around the county and see what happens.  

This might be a good thing for most of my patient's.  Rather than getting themselves admitted to the hospital every month because they are homeless and spent all their money on drugs, maybe they will spend some money on a place to live since they will get the drugs free.  

The amount of money for those drugs can't possibly cost the taxpayers as much as weeks of inpatient hospitalizations.  
agree.

 
Right off the bat you save money on drug enforcement.  I'd be okay with a free distribution model, but am also fine with selling it to users in a regulated, low-cost manner.  Remove the incentive from black market sellers.  Every time they get their drugs they are reminded of treatment programs available to them in a compassionate manner.  Seems like a healthier way of dealing with the problem than what we do now.
That and I imagine there is a huge stash accumulated from busts to keep these costs low at first.

 
ghostguy123 said:
That and I imagine there is a huge stash accumulated from busts to keep these costs low at first.
Yea unless it's uncut, they ain't using that junk but I get what you are saying.

 
We can't even all get behind legalizing pot, you think the bible belt is going to get behind heroin???

 

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