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IvanKaramazov

Robert Kraft (yes, THAT Robert Kraft) charged with soliciting prostitution

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Just now, Joe Bryant said:

Don't care. Zero jokes here. 

Not arguing with you, and don't disagree with your position.

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4 minutes ago, Epic Problem said:

And some well warranted public ridicule for the piece of #### that helped make a place like this operate 

I have a hard time believing Robert Kraft randomly wandered into a strip mall massage parlor and found out they do "extras."

Edited by Henry Ford

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4 minutes ago, Epic Problem said:

And some well warranted public ridicule for the piece of #### that helped make a place like this operate 

I have a rich friend who thought as long as the girls aren't officially captive or underage, this will be just a few weeks of laughing it off at the country club. That is incredible to me. 

Do you guys think that's accurate?

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3 hours ago, The_Man said:

Fair enough. But if it were legal, I bet there would be a lot less trafficking. Just like prohibition fuels an illegal economy in everything people are going to do no matter how many laws are against it.

I don't think it's clear that would happen at all. For instance, prostitution is legalized in the Netherlands and yet sex trafficking is still a big problem there:

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2017/10/some-6000-people-a-year-in-the-netherlands-are-victims-of-trafficking/

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3 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Not arguing with you, and don't disagree with your position.

Thank you. And sorry to have been curt. This is a heartbreaking problem in our society I think. 

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1 minute ago, Joe Bryant said:

I have a rich friend who thought as long as the girls aren't officially captive or underage, this will be just a few weeks of laughing it off at the country club. That is incredible to me. 

Do you guys think that's accurate?

I think a billionaire ended up in a human trafficking massage parlor in a strip mall 20 miles from Mar-A-Lago the week Epstein's deal was called illegal.  There are a lot more variables than I think your friend is looking at.

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1 minute ago, Joe Bryant said:

Thank you. And sorry to have been curt. This is a heartbreaking problem in our society I think. 

Nothing to be sorry for, Curt.

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2 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

I have a rich friend who thought as long as the girls aren't officially captive or underage, this will be just a few weeks of laughing it off at the country club. That is incredible to me. 

Do you guys think that's accurate?

You mean if, as of all we know so far, Kraft is only charged with soliciting a prostitute, and no involvement with the trafficking ring?  Yeah, probably so. He'll pay his fine and it'll be over most likely, except for the memes. 

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1 minute ago, Joe Bryant said:

I have a rich friend who thought as long as the girls aren't officially captive or underage, this will be just a few weeks of laughing it off at the country club. That is incredible to me. 

Do you guys think that's accurate?

Entirely dependent upon what the circumstances are. If they happen to be that and the people performing these acts are on the up and up, outside of our ridiculous Puritanesque laws when it comes to prostitution, why is it so incredible? 

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3 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Thank you. And sorry to have been curt. This is a heartbreaking problem in our society I think. 

yeah, Curt is a total jerk.  

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3 hours ago, TripItUp said:

It's legal in Australia and many other first world countries.

Australia is one of 21 countries that falls under the "high" category for human trafficking. So again, legalization didn't help stop sex trafficking at all.

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1 minute ago, Nathan R. Jessep said:

You mean if, as of all we know so far, Kraft is only charged with soliciting a prostitute, and no involvement with the trafficking ring?  Yeah, probably so. He'll pay his fine and it'll be over most likely, except for the memes. 

Pretty much this. There's been a lot of instances like this in pro sports over the years and, unless you're a player in the NFL, there's generally not many ramifications (that's not a particularly well-informed opinion, I don't know much about the NFL any more) once a little time has passed.

I heartily endorse the calls for greater policing efforts against trafficking.

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7 minutes ago, Nathan R. Jessep said:

You mean if, as of all we know so far, Kraft is only charged with soliciting a prostitute, and no involvement with the trafficking ring?  Yeah, probably so. He'll pay his fine and it'll be over most likely, except for the memes. 

That's what he's saying. 

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ESPN crawler indicating Kraft charged with 2 counts of misdemeanor of soliciting prostitution. 

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16 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

 

The likelihood these women are being trafficked is extremely high. For him, as a leader of his stature to contribute to people in the business of human sex trafficking is unfathomable. 

This is not some $3,000 a night model choosing a lifestyle. Even those are complicated and have dependencies. The strip mall $79 Asian Spa woman, or more likely young girl, end of the business is heartbreaking.

This isn’t an isolated event, its a problem that is completely ignored in the country. These places are everywhere and in all types of communities . 

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Just now, jon_mx said:

In all fairness, when Kraft agreed to the $100 extra for a happy ending he thought she was a ref.  

:bye: 

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12 minutes ago, Nathan R. Jessep said:

You mean if, as of all we know so far, Kraft is only charged with soliciting a prostitute, and no involvement with the trafficking ring?  Yeah, probably so. He'll pay his fine and it'll be over most likely, except for the memes. 

I agree.  My understanding is that it's very unlikely that he'll face criminal penalties of any significance, and my general sense is that solicitation carries roughly the same social stigma as a DUI.

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26 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

One time warning. Save the jokes or stuff you think is funny for somewhere else.

The likelihood these women are being trafficked is extremely high. For him, as a leader of his stature to contribute to people in the business of human sex trafficking is unfathomable. 

This is not some $3,000 a night model choosing a lifestyle. Even those are complicated and have dependencies. The strip mall $79 Asian Spa woman, or more likely young girl, end of the business is heartbreaking.

 

23 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

There is going to be horror in this story.  A lot of it. I think a little nervous laughter with the knowledge that is coming is what's going on here

As you can see from my previous post, agree with both of these.

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1 minute ago, Henry Ford said:

So are we all going with "it's a complete coincidence that Robert Kraft is at a strip mall front for human trafficking sex workers around the corner from Trump National Golf Course"?

 

Yes.

I'm sure this will be an opportunity to expand this into a negative for Trump. Please let's not. 

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Just now, Joe Bryant said:

Yes.

I'm sure this will be an opportunity to expand this into a negative for Trump. Please let's not. 

Okay.  

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8 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

This isn’t an isolated event, its a problem that is completely ignored in the country. These places are everywhere and in all types of communities . 

Agreed. Let's not joke and make light of any of them. 

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2 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I agree.  My understanding is that it's very unlikely that he'll face criminal penalties of any significance, and my general sense is that solicitation carries roughly the same social stigma as a DUI.

Poor schmucks caught peeing  in an alley might end up with more of a record than this guy. I hope he at least gets put on that same sex offender list.

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so lets see where you draw the line.....

Another major league sports owner was forced to sell his team for using the N word on tape. 

Where does Kaft's transgression fall? Is he keeping his team, yea or nay and why? 

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Just now, glvsav37 said:

so lets see where you draw the line.....

Another major league sports owner was forced to sell his team for using the N word on tape. 

Where does Kaft's transgression fall? Is he keeping his team, yea or nay and why? 

Absolutely he will be allowed to keep his team, and because this country generally doesn't really care about sexual exploitation of women.

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1 minute ago, glvsav37 said:

so lets see where you draw the line.....

Another major league sports owner was forced to sell his team for using the N word on tape. 

Where does Kaft's transgression fall? Is he keeping his team, yea or nay and why? 

Was listening to sports talk this AM when the news broke and they brought up that point. Donald Sterling and Jerry Richardson, in particular, were mentioned. I think if it's any more than the prostitution allegations, there's a strong chance the Patriots will be looking for a new owner. 

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17 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

Here's a great article from Germany about how legalizing prostitution there has not only failed to curb sex trafficking, but actually contributed to it:

http://m.spiegel.de/international/germany/human-trafficking-persists-despite-legality-of-prostitution-in-germany-a-902533-3.html

Yeah, I’m generally a legalize it kind of guy but there are really compelling arguments against it for prostitution. 

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7 minutes ago, glvsav37 said:

so lets see where you draw the line.....

Another major league sports owner was forced to sell his team for using the N word on tape. 

Where does Kaft's transgression fall? Is he keeping his team, yea or nay and why? 

Are we going to turn this into Handygate?

I hate the Patriots but he’s charged with a misdemeanor. 

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28 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

Australia is one of 21 countries that falls under the "high" category for human trafficking. So again, legalization didn't help stop sex trafficking at all.

certainly will never be stopped, but most would say Australia manages it better than the US.

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11 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Absolutely he will be allowed to keep his team, and because this country generally doesn't really care about sexual exploitation of women.

This is making my heart hurt.

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3 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Are we going to turn this into Handygate?

I hate the Patriots but he’s charged with a misdemeanor. 

and what was Sterling charged with? Besides being an old bigot. Last time I checked being a bigot doesn't involve law enforcement. 

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Just now, glvsav37 said:

and what was Sterling charged with? Besides being an old bigot. Last time I checked being a bigot doesn't involve law enforcement. 

Despite all the hand wringing in here evidently the public doesn’t care about these places. It seems in the last 5-10 they’ve sprouted up everywhere. Once in a while there is a bust but then it’s back to business as usual just as quickly. Oh we don’t like human trafficking but we ignore that human trafficking feeds these places. It’s disgusting. That said I’m not putting trafficking on RKK

Politicians and law enforcement need to step up 

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11 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Are we going to turn this into Handygate?

I hate the Patriots but he’s charged with a misdemeanor. 

What crime where the owners that used the N word charged with?

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41 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

I have a rich friend who thought as long as the girls aren't officially captive or underage, this will be just a few weeks of laughing it off at the country club. That is incredible to me. 

Do you guys think that's accurate?

I want to comment about this part- my experience is that it will be almost impossible to prove.

Here's what happened locally: as soon as the report was made of underage girls, the sheriffs investigated, and all trace of young girls were gone. Instead there were 3-4 middle aged women giving legitimate massages.

You have to catch them in the act, and it's very difficult. And these guys (the owners) have a LOT of money. The tenant that I worked with originally was a nice lady from Hong Kong (or so I thought), but when the trouble began, it became very clear that she was simply a front for a larger organization. I wanted to terminate their lease after the police came by, and I was approached by a Middle Eastern guy who claimed to be a "friend" of the tenant who insisted the police had it completely wrong, and then offered to pay 6 months rent in advance. That made me even more nervous, but after that I was contacted by a pretty high priced lawyer who threatened to sue if we terminated the lease. So we dropped it.

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2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I want to comment about this part- my experience is that it will be almost impossible to prove.

Here's what happened locally: as soon as the report was made of underage girls, the sheriffs investigated, and all trace of young girls were gone. Instead there were 3-4 middle aged women giving legitimate massages.

You have to catch them in the act, and it's very difficult. And these guys (the owners) have a LOT of money. The tenant that I worked with originally was a nice lady from Hong Kong (or so I thought), but when the trouble began, it became very clear that she was simply a front for a larger organization. I wanted to terminate their lease after the police came by, and I was approached by a Middle Eastern guy who claimed to be a "friend" of the tenant who insisted the police had it completely wrong, and then offered to pay 6 months rent in advance. That made me even more nervous, but after that I was contacted by a pretty high priced lawyer who threatened to sue if we terminated the lease. So we dropped it.

Shefter tweeted there is videotape

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3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I want to comment about this part- my experience is that it will be almost impossible to prove.

Here's what happened locally: as soon as the report was made of underage girls, the sheriffs investigated, and all trace of young girls were gone. Instead there were 3-4 middle aged women giving legitimate massages.

 

Whenever local law enforcement busts one of these places the women are always in their 40s or 50s.  I find that very strange.

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It's really about priorities and what we choose to care most about, isn't it?

 

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The other point that needs to be made, which makes the whole thing more complicated, is that a lot of these massage parlors are perfectly legitimate. Massage has become huge in many of the Asian communities, and they perform a cut down version- a western or European massage, like the type you get at fancy hotels, will cost you or your wife up to $200 per hour, perhaps more. Its a luxury service.  An Asian massage is around $35, and there's no frills. In some of these places there aren't even private rooms, just cots next to each other.

Anyhow, my point is these places do a lot of legitimate business, and not all of them are involved in the sex trade. 

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5 minutes ago, yak651 said:

What crime where the owners that used the N word charged with?

If you find the use of the N word acceptable that’s on you. It’s repulsive. 

btw I believe it was more than the N word

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3 minutes ago, BroncoFreak_2K3 said:

Shefter tweeted there is videotape

If there is, it will obviously be easy to prove if Kraft was engaged in sex of any kind. But it would be very difficult to prove that the girls are underage.

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More from my friend:

"I don't think we can expect all but a minority of people to view this as exploitation."

I think a vast majority of people would see the $79 Asian Spa girl as exploitation. What do you guys think?

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2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

The other point that needs to be made, which makes the whole thing more complicated, is that a lot of these massage parlors are perfectly legitimate. Massage has become huge in many of the Asian communities, and they perform a cut down version- a western or European massage, like the type you get at fancy hotels, will cost you or your wife up to $200 per hour, perhaps more. Its a luxury service.  An Asian massage is around $35, and there's no frills. In some of these places there aren't even private rooms, just cots next to each other.

Anyhow, my point is these places do a lot of legitimate business, and not all of them are involved in the sex trade. 

Fair point. 

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1 minute ago, Joe Bryant said:

More from my friend:

"I don't think we can expect all but a minority of people to view this as exploitation."

I think a vast majority of people would see the $79 Asian Spa girl as exploitation. What do you guys think?

You seem to be a bit prejudice here

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1 minute ago, Joe Bryant said:

More from my friend:

"I don't think we can expect all but a minority of people to view this as exploitation."

I think a vast majority of people would see the $79 Asian Spa girl as exploitation. What do you guys think?

Underage, absolutely.

If both parties are 21? Then I think you run into the core libertarianism of the American public. I think most people believe that consenting adults have the right to do whatever they want so long as its' all voluntary and no one is harmed.  And they don't look too closely at the details. 

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48 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

I have a rich friend who thought as long as the girls aren't officially captive or underage, this will be just a few weeks of laughing it off at the country club. That is incredible to me. 

Do you guys think that's accurate?

I don't believe so. Solicitation is a pretty disgusting moral act that isn't soon forgotten. 

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8 minutes ago, timschochet said:

The other point that needs to be made, which makes the whole thing more complicated, is that a lot of these massage parlors are perfectly legitimate. Massage has become huge in many of the Asian communities, and they perform a cut down version- a western or European massage, like the type you get at fancy hotels, will cost you or your wife up to $200 per hour, perhaps more. Its a luxury service.  An Asian massage is around $35, and there's no frills. In some of these places there aren't even private rooms, just cots next to each other.

Anyhow, my point is these places do a lot of legitimate business, and not all of them are involved in the sex trade

You show me a place that advertises table showers and I’ll show  you a rub place 

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