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Assault at Berkeley (1 Viewer)

Watching conservatives make a big deal over stories of assaults or false reports where the perpetrators are liberals so they can play "gotcha" while they play down or completely ignore mass murders, attempted terrorist attacks and vicious beatings perpetrated by people who clearly share and are motivated by conservative rhetoric in the age of Trump tells you far more about what's wrong with our political climate than some one-off story about successful trolls.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Watching conservatives make a big deal over stories of assaults or false reports where the perpetrators are liberals so they can play "gotcha" while they play down or completely ignore mass murders, attempted terrorist attacks and vicious beatings perpetrated by people who clearly share and are motivated by conservative rhetoric in the age of Trump tells you far more about what's wrong with our political climate than some one-off story about successful trolls.
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what it says is one is accepted and the other isn't

 
TobiasFunke said:
Agreed. Conservatives accept mass murders, hate crimes and the planning of terrorist attacks by right-leaning perpetrators but not simple assaults and false accusations by left-leaning perpetrators.

Thank you for putting it so succinctly.  Nice to be in agreement for once :hifive:
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Right on cue ....

TRUMP JR on hate crimes: "Man, to me, it seemed like there were many more hoax hate crimes than there are actual." (There were 7,100 hate crimes in the US in 2017. Hoaxes are extremely rare.)
Click to expand...

 
TobiasFunke said:
Agreed. Conservatives accept mass murders, hate crimes and the planning of terrorist attacks by right-leaning perpetrators but not simple assaults and false accusations by left-leaning perpetrators.

Thank you for putting it so succinctly.  Nice to be in agreement for once :hifive:
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nobody believes that junk TobiasFunke ..... why you feel you need to tell lies in an effort to spread hate towards conservatives I don't understand, I just don't.  Your accusation are tasteless

 
TobiasFunke said:
TRUMP JR on hate crimes: "Man, to me, it seemed like there were many more hoax hate crimes than there are actual." (There were 7,100 hate crimes in the US in 2017. Hoaxes are extremely rare.)
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he needs to prove or or apologize for saying it because he's either right, or wrong ... which is it ?

BTW this "hate crime" this is ridiculous ... call crime what it is, fairly and equally judge everyone. I dislike "hate crime" labels because its discrimination and racism by the very definitions 

 
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Stealthycat said:
he needs to prove or or apologize for saying it because he's either right, or wrong ... which is it ?

BTW this "hate crime" this is ridiculous ... call crime what it is, fairly and equally judge everyone. I dislike "hate crime" labels because its discrimination and racism by the very definitions 
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So if a black guy gets beat up for being black, it's racist to point that out?  lol  Cute

 
Stealthycat said:
he needs to prove or or apologize for saying it because he's either right, or wrong ... which is it ?

BTW this "hate crime" this is ridiculous ... call crime what it is, fairly and equally judge everyone. I dislike "hate crime" labels because its discrimination and racism by the very definitions 
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:coffee:

And I was criticized in another thread for saying a conservative meme I have seen is that hate crimes are a fiction and really don't exist.

 
I don't really see the point of this thread or the thread about the fake robbery.  There are stupid, bad people that are liberal and there are stupid, bad people that are conservative.  They aren't representative of the whole.   Individual stories like this aren't particularly noteworthy.  Unless they are funny, of course.  But then they belong in the FFA.

 
JuniorNB said:
So if a black guy gets beat up for being black, it's racist to point that out?  lol  Cute
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as equally and any reason that someone beats someone else up ... crimes happen because of hate and it happens literally towards every gender, color of skin, looks people have etc etc

so treat it all the same - equal and fair and non-discriminatory 

you do something to someone because you hate them, I don't care anything about the persons prejudice for it .......... I think its wrong and it all should be treated equally

if you beat someone because they're white or muslim or gay or christian or MAGA hat wearer or you talk with a southern accent or whatever..... I think its all the same, its hate .... one isn't any more special than the other 

 
Stealthycat said:
he needs to prove or or apologize for saying it because he's either right, or wrong ... which is it ?

BTW this "hate crime" this is ridiculous ... call crime what it is, fairly and equally judge everyone. I dislike "hate crime" labels because its discrimination and racism by the very definitions 
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He's very obviously wrong. Here's one link citing to studies estimating the number of hate crimes per year at 250,000 and finding a "very small number of approximately two dozen confirmed or suspected instances of false reporting 'hoaxes' in the last couple of years".  By comparison there were 15 hate crime murders in 2017 alone- a number that will no doubt be much higher for 2018 thanks to the Tree of Life killings.

To be honest, the fact that you don't just instinctively know that is kind of grotesque and depressing IMO. Of course there's way, way, way more hate crimes than false accusations.  The fact that you didn't just immediately recognize that this is the case- especially considering the person wondering otherwise was Donald Trump Jr- IMO should trigger some serious reflection from you about where you get your news from and how you process it. I know it won't, but it should, and that needs to be said. A world where someone even had to ask the bolded question is an ugly place.

 
Stealthycat said:
as equally and any reason that someone beats someone else up ... crimes happen because of hate and it happens literally towards every gender, color of skin, looks people have etc etc

so treat it all the same - equal and fair and non-discriminatory 

you do something to someone because you hate them, I don't care anything about the persons prejudice for it .......... I think its wrong and it all should be treated equally

if you beat someone because they're white or muslim or gay or christian or MAGA hat wearer or you talk with a southern accent or whatever..... I think its all the same, its hate .... one isn't any more special than the other 
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There is a big difference between someone assaulting someone because they think they "stole" their parking spot or they were "checking out their woman" and assaulting someone because of their race/religion/sexual orientation etc.

Not sure how you can't see that.

 
Stealthycat said:
nobody believes that junk TobiasFunke ..... why you feel you need to tell lies in an effort to spread hate towards conservatives I don't understand, I just don't.  Your accusation are tasteless
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I 100% believe that Donald Trump and many of his supporters care more about Jessie Smollett or these Berkeley dooshbags than they do about Curtis Allen, Gavin Wright, and Patrick Stein, to pick just three of the many pro-Trump violent criminals clearly inspired by his rhetoric whose misdeeds are never ever mentioned by conservative media, Trump or any other conservative leadership despite (or I guess more accurately, because of) their obvious role in creating the culture that fuels the crimes.

 
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TobiasFunke said:
A world where someone even had to ask the bolded question is an ugly place.
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I agree with you  -  never said I didn't. Fake assaults by far are outnumbered by real ones.  That Don Jr said that .... he either needs to prove what he said or admit he's very wrong. 

TobiasFunke said:
I 100% believe that Donald Trump and many of his supporters care more about Jessie Smollett or these Berkeley dooshbags than they do about Curtis Allen, Gavin Wright, and Patrick Stein, to pick just three of the many pro-Trump violent criminals clearly inspired by his rhetoric whose misdeeds are never ever mentioned by conservative media, Trump or any other conservative leadership despite (or I guess more accurately, because of) their obvious role in creating the culture that fuels the crimes.
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I doubt anyone who supports Trump cares about Smollett and most who don't support Trump don't either. In fact, I'd never heard of the guy to be honest.

never ever mentioned by conservative media ? really ?

Kansas militia members convicted of Somali refugee bomb ... - Fox News

https://www.foxnews.com/.../kansas-militia-members-convicted-of-somali-refugee-bomb...

Apr 18, 2018 - Patrick Stein, Gavin Wright and Curtis Allen were convicted of one count of conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction and one count of ...

Three men convicted in Kansas plot to bomb mosque ... - Fox News

https://www.foxnews.com/.../three-men-convicted-in-kansas-plot-to-bomb-mosque-apart...

Apr 18, 2018 - Patrick Stein, Gavin Wright and Curtis Allen were convicted of one count of conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction and one count of ...

Trial of men accused in Somali immigrant bomb plot nears ... - Fox News

https://www.foxnews.com/.../trial-of-men-accused-in-somali-immigrant-bomb-plot-nears...

Apr 17, 2018 - Patrick Stein, Gavin Wright and Curtis Allen are charged with conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction and conspiracy against civil ...

 
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Stealthycat said:
I agree with you  -  never said I didn't. Fake assaults by far are outnumbered by real ones.  That Don Jr said that .... he either needs to prove what he said or admit he's very wrong. 
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He can't prove it. It's obviously false. Why would you include that option?

He won't admit he's wrong, just like his father never admits he's wrong when he says demonstrably false things every day. And you and every other Trump supporter won't care one bit, just like you never care any time anyone in the Trump family or administration says demonstrably false things. Which is why they never need to admit it. 

I doubt anyone who supports Trump cares about Smollett and most who don't support Trump don't either. In fact, I'd never heard of the guy to be honest.
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Here's a search for his name on foxnews.com.

 
Stealthycat said:
I think there is far more on the left right now than right -just the opposite of what the media would tell us to believe. 

maybe there are just way more fringe lefts then
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No, its just normalized behavior on the right, so you don't even notice it anymore, comrade.

 
Stealthycat said:
he needs to prove or or apologize for saying it because he's either right, or wrong ... which is it ?

BTW this "hate crime" this is ridiculous ... call crime what it is, fairly and equally judge everyone. I dislike "hate crime" labels because its discrimination and racism by the very definitions 
Click to expand...
Explain this please.  Hate crimes are identified by race/religion etc.  It doesn't matter the combo of who the perp and victim are.  When it's motivate by race/religion/etc how is that "discrimination and racism by the very definition"?  It's applied equally to all races/religions etc.  

 
As a middle class, middle age, straight white guy I’m REAL hesitant to trivialize hate crimes and discrimination in general.

Might as well tell a woman her menstrual cramps are no big deal.

 
The Commish said:
Explain this please.  Hate crimes are identified by race/religion etc.  It doesn't matter the combo of who the perp and victim are.  When it's motivate by race/religion/etc how is that "discrimination and racism by the very definition"?  It's applied equally to all races/religions etc.  
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if a person of a crime for any reason it should be prosecuted - to say the intent behind it  (hateful intentions or feelings etc) makes a crime more "important" or prosecutable I just don't agree with

 
Stealthycat said:
if a person of a crime for any reason it should be prosecuted - to say the intent behind it  (hateful intentions or feelings etc) makes a crime more "important" or prosecutable I just don't agree with
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I used to have the same thoughts.  Where there is a difference is a hate crime has similarities to a terrorist attack.

Cut from Wikipedia:

Penalty-enhancement hate crime laws are traditionally justified on the grounds that, in Chief Justice Rehnquist's words, "this conduct is thought to inflict greater individual and societal harm.... bias-motivated crimes are more likely to provoke retaliatory crimes, inflict distinct emotional harms on their victims, and incite community unrest."[64]
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Stealthycat said:
The Commish said:
Explain this please.  Hate crimes are identified by race/religion etc.  It doesn't matter the combo of who the perp and victim are.  When it's motivate by race/religion/etc how is that "discrimination and racism by the very definition"?  It's applied equally to all races/religions etc.  
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if a person of a crime for any reason it should be prosecuted - to say the intent behind it  (hateful intentions or feelings etc) makes a crime more "important" or prosecutable I just don't agree with
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Do you have problems with the distinction between Murder1, Murder2, manslaughter etc?  Those varying "degrees" assign importance and come with varying punishments.  Something being a "hate crime" doesn't change its importance or ability to prosecute.  It does change the sentencing and punishment.  We have very few laws in this area of our judicial system that are "one crime, one punishment".  I'm sure lawyers around here can help me out, but I can't think of one that doesn't have an element of nuance to it.

 
The Commish said:
Do you have problems with the distinction between Murder1, Murder2, manslaughter etc?  Those varying "degrees" assign importance and come with varying punishments.  Something being a "hate crime" doesn't change its importance or ability to prosecute.  It does change the sentencing and punishment.  We have very few laws in this area of our judicial system that are "one crime, one punishment".  I'm sure lawyers around here can help me out, but I can't think of one that doesn't have an element of nuance to it.
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Those differences are based largely on direct premeditative action related to the crime, not prognosticating thought.

 
Juxtatarot said:
I used to have the same thoughts.  Where there is a difference is a hate crime has similarities to a terrorist attack.

Cut from Wikipedia:

  Quote

Penalty-enhancement hate crime laws are traditionally justified on the grounds that, in Chief Justice Rehnquist's words, "this conduct is thought to inflict greater individual and societal harm.... bias-motivated crimes are more likely to provoke retaliatory crimes, inflict distinct emotional harms on their victims, and incite community unrest."[64]
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and I don't agree with that either especially when the retaliatory crimes and community unrest happens regardless of the truths/facts behind the events that happen as often is the case

 
The Commish said:
Do you have problems with the distinction between Murder1, Murder2, manslaughter etc?  Those varying "degrees" assign importance and come with varying punishments.  Something being a "hate crime" doesn't change its importance or ability to prosecute.  It does change the sentencing and punishment.  We have very few laws in this area of our judicial system that are "one crime, one punishment".  I'm sure lawyers around here can help me out, but I can't think of one that doesn't have an element of nuance to it.
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if those are applied based on skin color and gender and religion etc no

Murder1, 2, manslaughter are given our equally and fairly as the crimes are determined right ?

 
Stealthycat said:
if a person of a crime for any reason it should be prosecuted - to say the intent behind it  (hateful intentions or feelings etc) makes a crime more "important" or prosecutable I just don't agree with
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So if a guy loses his temper because of a traffic incident and punches someone, you think it should be tried exactly the same as if some guy beats up a guy simply because he's black?

 
Stealthycat said:
if a person of a crime for any reason it should be prosecuted - to say the intent behind it  (hateful intentions or feelings etc) makes a crime more "important" or prosecutable I just don't agree with
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Harming a police officer is already a crime under federal law, and all 50 states have laws that enhance penalties for doing so.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/08/politics/protect-and-serve-act/index.html

Isn't that making a crime against a police officer more "important" or prosecutable than against an ordinary citizen? Do you also disagree with those laws?

 
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jonessed said:
The Commish said:
Do you have problems with the distinction between Murder1, Murder2, manslaughter etc?  Those varying "degrees" assign importance and come with varying punishments.  Something being a "hate crime" doesn't change its importance or ability to prosecute.  It does change the sentencing and punishment.  We have very few laws in this area of our judicial system that are "one crime, one punishment".  I'm sure lawyers around here can help me out, but I can't think of one that doesn't have an element of nuance to it.
Click to expand...
Those differences are based largely on direct premeditative action related to the crime, not prognosticating thought.
Click to expand...
The point is distinction, motive, circumstance all play a role in what penalty is pursued.  This is no different.  Yes, there are struggles trying to determine motive in some cases, just as there are with the examples I listed.  This isn't all that unique.  If you yell "hurt the n-----!" you're gonna get more thrown at you than assault.  If you march in a KKK rally and get into a fight and end up killing someone, you're facing these charges along with whatever else the prosecutor can get you on.

 
Stealthycat said:
The Commish said:
Do you have problems with the distinction between Murder1, Murder2, manslaughter etc?  Those varying "degrees" assign importance and come with varying punishments.  Something being a "hate crime" doesn't change its importance or ability to prosecute.  It does change the sentencing and punishment.  We have very few laws in this area of our judicial system that are "one crime, one punishment".  I'm sure lawyers around here can help me out, but I can't think of one that doesn't have an element of nuance to it.
Click to expand...
if those are applied based on skin color and gender and religion etc no

Murder1, 2, manslaughter are given our equally and fairly as the crimes are determined right ?
Click to expand...
It's not enough to charge someone with a hate crime simply because one guy was black and the other white or some dude is Christian and another atheist.  Doesn't work that way.  It sounds like you're just fine with the law if the bold is your concern.

 
sho nuff said:
No excuse for violence.

1.) Would also love to see the full exchanges and what all was said.

2.) In addition, do we need threads in every incident now?

And finally, Turning Point USA has a history of controversy and is Charlie Kirks baby, no?
Click to expand...
This is a bad look Sho.

1. You say no excuse for violence, but then you seem to want to try to find some sort of a justification for this?

2. Trying to silence an increasingly important discussion that we should be having? C'mon man.

 
Any arrest yet?  I would think it would be easy to find him with such a good view of his face in the video.

 
Stealthycat said:
if a person of a crime for any reason it should be prosecuted - to say the intent behind it  (hateful intentions or feelings etc) makes a crime more "important" or prosecutable I just don't agree with
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So a 25 year old dude sucker punching another 25 year old in a bar after they’ve been jawing at each other is on the same plane as a 25 year old punching a 90 year old woman?

 
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ShamrockPride said:
This is a bad look Sho.

1. You say no excuse for violence, but then you seem to want to try to find some sort of a justification for this?

2. Trying to silence an increasingly important discussion that we should be having? C'mon man.
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1.  Id love to know what led up to it all.  I think just saying sucker punched and the guy did nothing may be disingenuous given who he was there representing.  But even that, as I said, does not excuse the violence whatsoever.  Just adds to the story.  It doesn't condone the punch at all and nowhere will you see me even imply it or justify the use of violence in such a case.

2.  Who is trying to silence it?  I simply asked if we needed a new thread for every incident?  Because we could fill the board with things from each side of the spectrum if we did IMO.

 
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sho nuff said:
2.  Who is trying to silence it?  I simply asked if we needed a new thread for every incident?  Because we could fill the board with things from each side of the spectrum if we did IMO.
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We seem to have a new topic for every anti-conservative event that this chamber relishes.   Not to mention everything Trump does has a new topic it seems. 

 
JohnnyU said:
We seem to have a new topic for every anti-conservative event that this chamber relishes.   Not to mention everything Trump does has a new topic it seems. 
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"Listen, if you guys are gonna start threads about the President of the United States being a bigoted fraudulent lunatic, I'm gonna start threads about people getting their hats stolen in restaurants and nerdy trolls getting punched by their college classmates because that's just as important."
 

 
TobiasFunke said:
"Listen, if you guys are gonna start threads about the President of the United States being a bigoted fraudulent lunatic, I'm gonna start threads about people getting their hats stolen in restaurants and nerdy trolls getting punched by their college classmates because that's just as important."
 
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that made my day

 
TobiasFunke said:
"Listen, if you guys are gonna start threads about the President of the United States being a bigoted fraudulent lunatic, I'm gonna start threads about people getting their hats stolen in restaurants and nerdy trolls getting punched by their college classmates because that's just as important."
 
Click to expand...
This is their internet manifestation of the "both sides" argument.

 
TobiasFunke said:
"Listen, if you guys are gonna start threads about the President of the United States being a bigoted fraudulent lunatic, I'm gonna start threads about people getting their hats stolen in restaurants and nerdy trolls getting punched by their college classmates because that's just as important."
 
Click to expand...
fair enough, you do that.

 
JohnnyU said:
We seem to have a new topic for every anti-conservative event that this chamber relishes.   Not to mention everything Trump does has a new topic it seems. 
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Well neither of those claims appear to be true at all.  Major issues get threads...someone knocking the hat off a guy gets a thread?

 
JuniorNB said:
So if a guy loses his temper because of a traffic incident and punches someone, you think it should be tried exactly the same as if some guy beats up a guy simply because he's black?
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if the victims sustain equal "damage" ..... does it matter that one guy hated someone because of a traffic incident and the other because they saw color of skin? hate is hate.... let me ask you

So if a guy loses his temper because of a traffic incident and punches someone, you think it should be tried exactly the same as if some guy beats up a guy simply because he speaks with a southern drawl ?

 
more stories of hate from the left

  • NJ man, 81, wearing MAGA hat assaulted at ShopRite: cops      MyCentralJersey.com-22 hours ago
  •  
  • Student's MAGA Apparel Allegedly Gets Ripped Off At School: 'Take ...  The Daily Caller-17 hours ago
  • (RELATED: Woman Assaulted Man Sporting MAGA Hat. ... Santa Fe High School had his MAGA flag ripped off of him by another student.
  •  
  • Okla. high school student caught knocking 'MAGA' hat off boy's head ...
  • Washington Times-11 minutes ago  An Oklahoma high school student is facing a potential criminal charge after video 

 
Stealthycat said:
more stories of hate from the left

  • NJ man, 81, wearing MAGA hat assaulted at ShopRite: cops      MyCentralJersey.com-22 hours ago
  •  
  • Student's MAGA Apparel Allegedly Gets Ripped Off At School: 'Take ...  The Daily Caller-17 hours ago
  • (RELATED: Woman Assaulted Man Sporting MAGA Hat. ... Santa Fe High School had his MAGA flag ripped off of him by another student.
  •  
  • Okla. high school student caught knocking 'MAGA' hat off boy's head ...
  • Washington Times-11 minutes ago  An Oklahoma high school student is facing a potential criminal charge after video 
Click to expand...
Now post stories of people wearing swastikas getting harassed.

 
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