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The Joker (w/ Joaquin Phoenix) (1 Viewer)

Hawks64 said:
Leto's Joker was awful. I think Nicholson's was average at best and Ledger was spot on.

However all Jokers origins have similar tenants. Ordinary guy, maybe a bit odd, some criminal element, Ace Chemicals and Batman. This doesn't have the single two most important things to what turned Joker into Joker IMO. Ace and Batman. Without Batman I'd argue Joker never becomes Joker. There is no Batman here.

I also have a serious issue with the Titans on DC (it's horrible), many of the X-Men movies and a few other comic based movies that don't have a close tie to the origins of the characters.
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How do you know there is no reference to Batman? Why are you assuming you know everything about this movie based off of 2.5 minutes?

 
Also you can’t argue that without Batman there is no joker because it is literally a made-up story. It can be whatever people want it to be. 

 
Capella said:
Great! 

Weird take to say we’ve seen the same story multiple times and so we should see it again. I hope this entire movie tells the source material to piss off. 
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Agreed. I really didn't think we'd ever see a better version than what Ledger gave us, and I still don't. That being said, I welcome a new perspective on the Joker's history. Yes, we know about Bruce Wayne, and the previous incarnations of the joker. Who really cares to see the same thing repeated again? Might it become as awful as all the Spiderman reboots? 

J Phoenix is a great actor, and I'm excited to see what he does with this character. 

 
Hawks64 said:
Problem is every Batman movie has used the same exact origin tenants. Joker has an origin and this isn't it. There are significant liberties being taken with one aspect, the comic, and isn't including any of the other the core tenants of it.

There has not been a modern day, ie 80s and forward, that he is not a dark and flat out psychopath. This has zero of that feel.
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Joker has about 3 or 4 potential origins in the comics. None of them are confirmed. Joker is supposed to be a mystery. It's what makes him him. So a side story with a different origin story is perfectly fine if the plot is good.

 
Hawks64 said:
Problem is every Batman movie has used the same exact origin tenants. Joker has an origin and this isn't it. There are significant liberties being taken with one aspect, the comic, and isn't including any of the other the core tenants of it.

There has not been a modern day, ie 80s and forward, that he is not a dark and flat out psychopath. This has zero of that feel.
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I get where your coming at with this as the trailer seems to be portraying the Joker in a more sympathetic touchy-feely aspect.

But who knows I'll still give it benefit of the doubt because of whose involved and check it out anyways.

 
I think it looks intriguing.  My only two thoughts are that Phoenix seems old for the part and that in the trailer he comes off as kind of a pushover.  One of those can obviously be reconciled by the movie.  But that's just nitpicking.  I'll definitely go see it.

 
Insein said:
Joker has about 3 or 4 potential origins in the comics. None of them are confirmed. Joker is supposed to be a mystery. It's what makes him him. So a side story with a different origin story is perfectly fine if the plot is good.
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Not really different. They are all similar based on some basic principals.

 
McJose said:
I haven't seen one second of footage or even a still from this movie and it looks horrible.
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I bet if the Joker lived under the water, visited buildings that defied physics, fell for a woman, and was the focus of a movie with a nonsensical plot you'd love it. 

 
Zow said:
I bet if the Joker lived under the water, visited buildings that defied physics, fell for a woman, and was the focus of a movie with a nonsensical plot you'd love it. 
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lolz...you mean like 99% of every comic book movie ever made?  

 
McJose said:
:shrug:

”Pffffttt you could flood a bathroom like that.  So stupid.”

”That kid got bit by a spider and it changed his DNA!  So cool.”
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Right. Equally as dumb. 

The Joker is just a cool character with no dumb superpowers. 

 
CGRdrJoe said:
it's awesome that we can now dismiss an entire movie and it's plot just by watching a trailer.
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Trailers have gotten to the point where you watch them and know a lot of the main points of the movie.  I think it's fair to assess the movie based on what you see in the trailer.  Have you watched a trailer recently then saw the movie and it was different than what you thought.  This is a big reason I try to avoid trailers for stuff I am really interested in. 

 
Thunderlips said:
The DC movie Universe is, as is their Comic Universe, a Multiverse.  There could be a thousand Joker origin stories and all of them would be valid.

It's an interesting take, particularly after the success of the rigid Marvel/Disney Universe......but being so far behind in development....DC has to take some chances. This movie looks like a chance well taken. 
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Really? Oof

 
KarmaPolice said:
Trailers have gotten to the point where you watch them and know a lot of the main points of the movie.  I think it's fair to assess the movie based on what you see in the trailer.  Have you watched a trailer recently then saw the movie and it was different than what you thought.  This is a big reason I try to avoid trailers for stuff I am really interested in. 
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I think Avengers Infinity Wars had multiple trailer scenes that weren’t even in the movie to throw fans off. 

 
KarmaPolice said:
Did you feel like the tone/look/feel of the movie were a lot different that what you got in the trailers though? 
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I mean, it was a comic book movie. They’re all kinda the same. 

I get your point though. For some reason I feel like this one is holding something back. 

 
I haven't watched the trailer but I’m sure it’s something I would love to argue about over the interwebs with others whom seem to care a little too much. 

Maybe later. 

 
Capella said:
I mean, it was a comic book movie. They’re all kinda the same. 

I get your point though. For some reason I feel like this one is holding something back. 
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Yes/No.  It's not like most of them are all that deep, but it's not like you would watch this trailer and a GotG trailer and realize there is going to be a big difference in tone and pace of the two movies.   About the only thing that surprises me about trailers anymore is that they don't ruin the whole movie.  Especially horror and comedy trailers - you watch the movie and realize that most of the scares/laughs were in the trailer.  

Right back at you - I get your point about something being held back.  Seems like the trailer is showing the build up of Joker, but I get the impression that #### will hit the fan in the last act, and there doesn't seem to be any of that in the trailer.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
Trailers have gotten to the point where you watch them and know a lot of the main points of the movie.  I think it's fair to assess the movie based on what you see in the trailer.  Have you watched a trailer recently then saw the movie and it was different than what you thought.  This is a big reason I try to avoid trailers for stuff I am really interested in. 
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I know its now an older movie but I watched Serenity last week with Matthew McConaghy and it was way different then what I was expecting from the trailer I saw.

* I also try to avoid trailers and news about stuff I am really into. The most recent being It chapter two. I have read the book a few times so I know the story but I dont want to know what made the film and what did not.

 
Supposedly an 8 minute standing ovation with some “Bravo!” screams at a recent film festival. 

 
I'm pretty hyped for this. Comic movies haven't really impressed me in recent years. I like the dark angle more than the cartoony comedies Marvel puts out.

 
I'd put money on Joaquin getting the academy award for this performance without ever seeing it.  The non-spoiler reviews I've seen on it have all compared it Taxi Driver/King of Comedy mash up and boy does that sound like potential.  Ending is supposed to be open to interpretation and reports that multiple views are required so i'd expect an American Psycho/Fight Club vibe as well.  This is the first film in the new DC Black Label universe that has been a love child of Todd Phillips, literally begging the studio for years for one crack at this.  DC Black label will hopefully be a marketable alternative to this Marvel Stage 4 which has its work cut out for them without Downey, and whatever the heck is going on with Spiderman rights.  DC Black Label will hopefully remain pumping lower "budget" hardcore  Comic movies in this same universe.  

The film takes place in '81 I believe, and we are going to get a version of the Joker we have never seen before.  Ledger was a great actor, Phoenix is an absolute mad man.  I don't think we've had an on screen joker yet that instead of being a prankster, this Joker uses laughter as a device to channel his entire range of emotions, not as a response to anything funny.

That scene in the trailer where e is laughing in the hallway until he turns the corner is absolutely haunting, even though we only see about 4 seconds of it.

In case you hated everything I just said, I'll leave with a fun fact:

Joaquin Phoenix's birth certificate reads:  Joaquin Bottom, and he born in puerto rico to a family that basically traveled like gypsy's.

Thanks mom

 
Joker never had a back story because he didn't need one, he simply represents unstoppable chaos in Batman's world.  One of the main reasons Batman doesn't kill anyone (Until Affleck anyways) was to be able to keep the Joker character always available for a storyline.  

Also read that Phoenix spent a significant amount of time of studying mental illness and working with psychotherapists in order to create a character that did not fit a particular psychological profile or illness.

 
Based on reviews, I will reserve judgement.  I just thought it seemed weird that he was doing stand-up and you have DeNiro as a talk show host treating him poorly as the genesis of Joker -- seems that there is a lot more to it though.

Tell me more about DC Black Label.  Do we get to trash all of the other DC movies that came out in the last few years (save Wonder Woman) maybe?

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Based on reviews, I will reserve judgement.  I just thought it seemed weird that he was doing stand-up and you have DeNiro as a talk show host treating him poorly as the genesis of Joker -- seems that there is a lot more to it though.

Tell me more about DC Black Label.  Do we get to trash all of the other DC movies that came out in the last few years (save Wonder Woman) maybe?
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It's a Skinny Black/DJay scenario.  Djay gave him his mix tape and thought he was getting alot of love from Skinny when Skinny said he'd give it a listen.....but when Djay found it in the urinal in Arnel's bathroom....Skinny had to get his ### whupped.  This is the Gotham version of that.  

 
Getting best picture type accolades. Even if they're exaggerating, that's pretty high praise for a movie about a comic villain.

 
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