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The Joker (w/ Joaquin Phoenix)

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15 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

I think it all will depend on Phoenix.  Moneys money.....but they said he didn't want to do a role in the Marvel Universe because he didn't want to be locked into a character/role.  

Right. I read something the other day though that said he was interested in seeing what else the character had. 

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Broke down and got tix for my Tuesday off.  Wife is going too - I think it might be the first movie we see together in about 15+ years in the theater?   :scared:

 

Edited by KarmaPolice

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I am surprised at so many gushing reviews.  In the end I thought this was a pretty damn good performance that masked a pretty bad movie - so I guess it was average at best if you average the two?  :shrug:  Still don't feel like I would give it a 5/10 because I thought in the end it was inconsistent and kind of pointless.  

Like I said on the positive - I think Phoenix was great, and I would watch him in just about anything.  I really think he is one of the best living actors working today.  The way he did the laugh while crying thing was mesmerizing and heartbreaking.  He seems to morph into his roles and add these interesting little touches.  I also thought it was pretty well shot and there were some really good looking scenes.  

That said, I don't know what the point of having this as a Joker movie was.  It basically felt like Phillips wanted to do a school-boy mashup of some Scorsese stuff he likes, but the studio wouldn't greenlight it unless they had a marketable comic book villain in it.  If it's supposed to be the origin of the Joker we know, I don't buy for a second this guy is some organized supervillain capable keeping up with Batman.   On top of that, it seems like there were all sorts of inconsistencies in the story and what he was saying, such as: this isn't a political thing, but two minutes later I will make it a political thing on the talk show with a rant and blaming society after he find out that it was his mom's fault.   Mostly it felt like it was just presenting obvious themes/statements but not really digging deeper into any of them - income disparity bad, cutting funds bad, etc.    Was there a point to giving it a 70s vibe besides the obvious homage to Taxi Driver/King of Comedy? (don't get me started on the casting of DeNiro)  The themes, ideas, and details didn't seem to be set in that time.     Maybe I watch too many dark drama movies, but I also don't get the comments about how disturbing this was or how dark it was - it's not like this was Requiem or something.    I do admit, I was a lot more on board with the movie until the final act.  Then I thought I was being hit over the head with stuff and it left a bad taste in my mouth.  Things like his final "joke", having to show the flashbacks with the girl down the hall, the stuff with the crowd/riot, and I was tapping out.     

 

 

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Been meaning to ask — did he kill the nurse at the end? And if so, how? Wouldn’t there be like 3 cops there protecting her? Don’t know why but that bothered me. 

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10 minutes ago, Capella said:

Been meaning to ask — did he kill the nurse at the end? And if so, how? Wouldn’t there be like 3 cops there protecting her? Don’t know why but that bothered me. 

The bloody footprints imply as much, and I have 0 clue how  or why he didn't run into any security until about 5mins of dancing later.  

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4 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

The bloody footprints imply as much, and I have 0 clue how  or why he didn't run into any security until about 5mins of dancing later.  

Cause it's a movie. About the joker. Joker is a bad guy that thinks murder is funny.

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15 minutes ago, Insein said:

Cause it's a movie. About the joker. Joker is a bad guy that thinks murder is funny.

That explains how he killed her and why there was little security? 

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3 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

That explains how he killed her and why there was little security? 

The movie was a mix of "comic book" and "not comic book." That part was all "comic book." That's my explanation. Same as how he was able to grab his mother's file and run away with it.

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15 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

That explains how he killed her and why there was little security? 

Leaves it up to imagination and the crowd saying "oh that wacky joker"

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I think he was in a therapy session so there was no security with them. And anything could have set him off to rip her throat open.

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19 minutes ago, Insein said:

Leaves it up to imagination and the crowd saying "oh that wacky joker"

After the bleakness of the rest of the movie, that's what the crowd is supposed to be left saying? 

I get it, I seem to be in the minority on this one, just thought the last bit of the movie was pretty bad.  

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For those that have seen it, thoughts on my 11 yo seeing it? Big superhero/comics fan, and also into horror movies (Jason, Freddy, Shining, etc.) and horror books (It), so not like he gets scared easily.  

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22 minutes ago, The Noid said:

For those that have seen it, thoughts on my 11 yo seeing it? Big superhero/comics fan, and also into horror movies (Jason, Freddy, Shining, etc.) and horror books (It), so not like he gets scared easily.  

I’d say no, i wouldn’t consider it a comic book movie at all.  And it’s not really “scary”, but there are some pretty graphic straight up murder scenes 

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37 minutes ago, The Noid said:

For those that have seen it, thoughts on my 11 yo seeing it? Big superhero/comics fan, and also into horror movies (Jason, Freddy, Shining, etc.) and horror books (It), so not like he gets scared easily.  

I’d say no. 15 would be the age I would allow a kid to go. The last 30 minutes are straight up graphic. 

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41 minutes ago, The Noid said:

For those that have seen it, thoughts on my 11 yo seeing it? Big superhero/comics fan, and also into horror movies (Jason, Freddy, Shining, etc.) and horror books (It), so not like he gets scared easily.  

Not scary. Not a comic book movie. More a psychological study into human nature. 

So a) he'll be super bored probably and b) the murders are very realistic.

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2 hours ago, Insein said:

Not scary. Not a comic book movie. More a psychological study into human nature. 

So a) he'll be super bored probably and b) the murders are very realistic.

This was what I landed on after reading the reviews (and tried to convince him of, when we told him it was a no-go.) Thanks, all.

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On 10/20/2019 at 4:05 PM, Capella said:

Also Jared Leto and his joker are out of the DCEU I believe 

I like Leto to a degree, as he was great in Requiem, but his Joker sucked balls. 

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26 minutes ago, skycriesmary said:

I like Leto to a degree, as he was great in Requiem, but his Joker sucked balls. 

The script and the edit sucked balls. I thought he had potential to be something different but good if he was the main villain. Why even have joker in a movie if he's a non essential side character.

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On 10/22/2019 at 10:18 PM, KarmaPolice said:

After the bleakness of the rest of the movie, that's what the crowd is supposed to be left saying? 

I get it, I seem to be in the minority on this one, just thought the last bit of the movie was pretty bad.  

Reading here about the final therapy scene being needed to imply ambiguity about what was real and what was hallucinations, makes some sense.   But, I felt in the moment it was hokey ( “The End” in yellow script ???) and it would’ve been a much more epic ending with young Bruce Wayne looking out to see Joker arms outstretched being worshipped by his new followers.  Cut to black.  

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On 10/22/2019 at 5:40 PM, KarmaPolice said:

I am surprised at so many gushing reviews.  In the end I thought this was a pretty damn good performance that masked a pretty bad movie - so I guess it was average at best if you average the two?  :shrug:  Still don't feel like I would give it a 5/10 because I thought in the end it was inconsistent and kind of pointless.  

Like I said on the positive - I think Phoenix was great, and I would watch him in just about anything.  I really think he is one of the best living actors working today.  The way he did the laugh while crying thing was mesmerizing and heartbreaking.  He seems to morph into his roles and add these interesting little touches.  I also thought it was pretty well shot and there were some really good looking scenes.  

That said, I don't know what the point of having this as a Joker movie was.  It basically felt like Phillips wanted to do a school-boy mashup of some Scorsese stuff he likes, but the studio wouldn't greenlight it unless they had a marketable comic book villain in it.  If it's supposed to be the origin of the Joker we know, I don't buy for a second this guy is some organized supervillain capable keeping up with Batman.   On top of that, it seems like there were all sorts of inconsistencies in the story and what he was saying, such as: this isn't a political thing, but two minutes later I will make it a political thing on the talk show with a rant and blaming society after he find out that it was his mom's fault.   Mostly it felt like it was just presenting obvious themes/statements but not really digging deeper into any of them - income disparity bad, cutting funds bad, etc.    Was there a point to giving it a 70s vibe besides the obvious homage to Taxi Driver/King of Comedy? (don't get me started on the casting of DeNiro)  The themes, ideas, and details didn't seem to be set in that time.     Maybe I watch too many dark drama movies, but I also don't get the comments about how disturbing this was or how dark it was - it's not like this was Requiem or something.    I do admit, I was a lot more on board with the movie until the final act.  Then I thought I was being hit over the head with stuff and it left a bad taste in my mouth.  Things like his final "joke", having to show the flashbacks with the girl down the hall, the stuff with the crowd/riot, and I was tapping out.    

I can't argue with you on those points, but I sure  liked it a lot.

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On 10/22/2019 at 8:40 PM, KarmaPolice said:

I am surprised at so many gushing reviews.  In the end I thought this was a pretty damn good performance that masked a pretty bad movie - so I guess it was average at best if you average the two?  :shrug:  Still don't feel like I would give it a 5/10 because I thought in the end it was inconsistent and kind of pointless.  

Like I said on the positive - I think Phoenix was great, and I would watch him in just about anything.  I really think he is one of the best living actors working today.  The way he did the laugh while crying thing was mesmerizing and heartbreaking.  He seems to morph into his roles and add these interesting little touches.  I also thought it was pretty well shot and there were some really good looking scenes.  

That said, I don't know what the point of having this as a Joker movie was.  It basically felt like Phillips wanted to do a school-boy mashup of some Scorsese stuff he likes, but the studio wouldn't greenlight it unless they had a marketable comic book villain in it.  If it's supposed to be the origin of the Joker we know, I don't buy for a second this guy is some organized supervillain capable keeping up with Batman.   On top of that, it seems like there were all sorts of inconsistencies in the story and what he was saying, such as: this isn't a political thing, but two minutes later I will make it a political thing on the talk show with a rant and blaming society after he find out that it was his mom's fault.   Mostly it felt like it was just presenting obvious themes/statements but not really digging deeper into any of them - income disparity bad, cutting funds bad, etc.    Was there a point to giving it a 70s vibe besides the obvious homage to Taxi Driver/King of Comedy? (don't get me started on the casting of DeNiro)  The themes, ideas, and details didn't seem to be set in that time.     Maybe I watch too many dark drama movies, but I also don't get the comments about how disturbing this was or how dark it was - it's not like this was Requiem or something.    I do admit, I was a lot more on board with the movie until the final act.  Then I thought I was being hit over the head with stuff and it left a bad taste in my mouth.  Things like his final "joke", having to show the flashbacks with the girl down the hall, the stuff with the crowd/riot, and I was tapping out.     

 

 

This is how I felt. It was interesting and Phoenix was great but I didn't get the ending, the message of the movie seemed scattered (though that is how these mass shooter types think) and the Deniro talk show bit was way too close to King of Comedy for me. Also, it was wildly heavy handed. That sad, it's the best comic book movie in awhile. 

On 10/22/2019 at 10:08 PM, Capella said:

Been meaning to ask — did he kill the nurse at the end? And if so, how? Wouldn’t there be like 3 cops there protecting her? Don’t know why but that bothered me. 

That really threw me off. So he got captured after being on the police car? How was this sadistic killer allowed to be alone with a woman? I felt that they were hinting almost none of the movie really happened, the Joker imagined it all and his first real killing was that nurse/doctor at the end. 

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Also, I totally see how it fits in the mold of Clockwork, Taxi Driver, etc. I am sure if I was 20, I would have really loved it. 

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51 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Also, I totally see how it fits in the mold of Clockwork, Taxi Driver, etc. I am sure if I was 20, I would have really loved it. 

...or haven't seen all those other movies?

 

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Just now, KarmaPolice said:

...or haven't seen all those other movies?

 

Sure and I suppose it is quite high praise to say it's that movie for this generation even if I didn't think it was great. 

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

Sure and I suppose it is quite high praise to say it's that movie for this generation even if I didn't think it was great. 

I still don't think it was good or coherent enough to be "that movie" for this generation.  Or are you saying it's fitting that it's a rehash of all those movies?

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3 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

Also, I totally see how it fits in the mold of Clockwork, Taxi Driver, etc. I am sure if I was 20, I would have really loved it. 

Wait...what?

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29 minutes ago, McJose said:

Wait...what?

You don’t see parallels between this and Clockwork Orange? I’m not saying their plots are similar but the fetishizing of violence is clearly similar and they strike similar chords. 

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2 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

You don’t see parallels between this and Clockwork Orange? I’m not saying their plots are similar but the fetishizing of violence is clearly similar and they strike similar chords. 

Haven’t seen “Joker” but  ok

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7 hours ago, McJose said:

Haven’t seen “Joker” but  ok

Oh well then why was it puzzling?

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On 11/9/2019 at 10:39 PM, McJose said:

Haven’t seen “Joker” but  ok

:lmao: :lmao: 

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Was ok.  Would never watch again though.

All i heard was about Phoenix performance and not much about the movie.  I took that as a bad sign.   Was hoping to be surprised.  Was not.

The physicality of the performance was impressive.  Was also way too much.  

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Most profitable comic book movie of all time. Yes even better than End game. 

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8 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

What Scorsese movie is he going to copy for the sequel? ;)

 

Goodfellas

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Joker was a rare combination for me. I liked a lot of the components. The acting, sets, costuming, lighting, pacing, most of the story, etc.  But the some of the parts was not as good as the parts. So while I would give each of those items high marks, I can’t say I loved the movie overall. Hard to explain, but I would rate the individual pieces 3-3.5 stars but the overall movie 2-2.5 stars. It just felt like something was missing. 

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33 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Joker was a rare combination for me. I liked a lot of the components. The acting, sets, costuming, lighting, pacing, most of the story, etc.  But the some of the parts was not as good as the parts. So while I would give each of those items high marks, I can’t say I loved the movie overall. Hard to explain, but I would rate the individual pieces 3-3.5 stars but the overall movie 2-2.5 stars. It just felt like something was missing. 

Yeah. Nuance.

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5 hours ago, Insein said:

Most profitable comic book movie of all time. Yes even better than End game. 

Since the cost to make it was so small compared to the traditional comic book film it had a big advantage. Huge hit though, pretty wild for what was basically a wired indie movie.

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5 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

What Scorsese movie is he going to copy for the sequel? ;)

 

Scarecrow meets Shutter Island

Penguin meets Gangs of New York meets Age of Innocence 

Alice Doesn’t Alice Here Anymore meets Catwoman 

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

Scarecrow meets Shutter Island

Penguin meets Gangs of New York meets Age of Innocence 

Alice Doesn’t Alice Here Anymore meets Catwoman 

:lol: I was thinking about:

a Justice League sequel set as Gangs of New York

The Penguin movie where he yell at somebody to get their ####in' shinebox

A meditative Superman movie copying Last Temptation of Christ

 

Edited by KarmaPolice
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