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Standing Hampton

I proposed this to my students today

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We're talking about the Enlightenment in world history this week, John Locke, Mary Wollstonecraft, Voltaire, etc., and I asked what they would do to change our high school.  Typical answers of food, start time, time between classes.  The usual.  They asked me and I said "change the driver's license policy so that students had to have a 2.0 gpa to get it".  I told them that something like that would "motivate" the students to do well in school.  Surprisingly, many agreed with me.  As a parent would you be on board?

I plan on sharing some of the comments, within reason, with my class tomorrow.  Filtered, of course.

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Our middle school didn't allow students to attend after school activities (mostly sports, but could include other disciplines), if you didn't have a 2.0.

I would support. They could eventually get it themselves at 18 but I think everyone wants it at 16 or whatever the local law allows. I know neighbors that would give their kids a cell phone if they get 4.0. But maybe everyone in middle school already has a cell phone now. 

Another idea might be if you have a 2.0 you can pass on taking a test - assuming you have multiple tests. 

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In scrolling down the list of threads quickly, I mistakenly read the title of this one to be "I proposed to one of my students today". 

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Would endorse.  My own parents didn't let me get mine until I got my grades up to a 3.0 (I was a slacker).

Arguments against would be that this would unfairly target certain segments of the population.  Some of those kids need their cars to go to their jobs that earn money that support the family.

Those wouldn't be my arguments, but are logical positions to take against this requirement.

I'm not 100% serious in this, but in my perfect world, all high school extra curriculars would require a 2.75 GPA.  If you aren't doing the work to get a 2.75, you don't need to be spending several hours after school everyday in the gym or weight room, or whatever.  2.0 requirements for sports are jokes.

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I think West Virginia lets schools report a teenager to the DMV for academic failures and that can lead to revocation of the license.

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23 minutes ago, Standing Hampton said:

We're talking about the Enlightenment in world history this week, John Locke, Mary Wollstonecraft, Voltaire, etc., and I asked what they would do to change our high school.  Typical answers of food, start time, time between classes.  The usual.  They asked me and I said "change the driver's license policy so that students had to have a 2.0 gpa to get it".  I told them that something like that would "motivate" the students to do well in school.  Surprisingly, many agreed with me.  As a parent would you be on board?

I plan on sharing some of the comments, within reason, with my class tomorrow.  Filtered, of course.

As a parent?  I'd say yes.  My child would need to be focused on success in school, and having a driver's license could be self-defeating as I wouldn't want the child to have the additional freedom that comes with driving (not to mention the fact that they shouldn't be working a lot of hours to pay car costs when they need to be studying).

But as a general policy - no.  I view that as overreach by the state.  Leave it to the families.

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If you too stupid to pass your class, you too stupid to drive your ###.

Edited by Leroy Hoard
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26 minutes ago, matttyl said:

In scrolling down the list of threads quickly, I mistakenly read the title of this one to be "I proposed to one of my students today". 

Yup, me too.  Might suggest a title change.

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52 minutes ago, Standing Hampton said:

They asked me and I said "change the driver's license policy so that students had to have a 2.0 gpa to get it".  I told them that something like that would "motivate" the students to do well in school. 

So is that the purpose of this? To improve school performance? If so, I'd propose finding another way and not link grades to drivers licenses.

Or is there another goal? To have fewer young drivers? Then maybe just make the driving tests harder.

I guess I just don't get the point.

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Isn't there a pretty massive insurance cost to not being an A or B student?  I know my sister rifled on my niece at Christmas for getting 1 B or 1 C in a class, and one of the things she said was that when she gets her license, she'd have to pay her own insurance if they didn't get the good student discount.

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1 hour ago, Phil Elliott said:

Our middle school didn't allow students to attend after school activities (mostly sports, but could include other disciplines), if you didn't have a 2.0.

 

I get the idea but research shows being involved in school is a positive and tends to ultimately lead to better outcomes. Also it’s further punishing kids with disabilities, etc.

1 hour ago, Bull Dozier said:

Would endorse.  My own parents didn't let me get mine until I got my grades up to a 3.0 (I was a slacker).

Arguments against would be that this would unfairly target certain segments of the population.  Some of those kids need their cars to go to their jobs that earn money that support the family.

Those wouldn't be my arguments, but are logical positions to take against this requirement.

I'm not 100% serious in this, but in my perfect world, all high school extra curriculars would require a 2.75 GPA.  If you aren't doing the work to get a 2.75, you don't need to be spending several hours after school everyday in the gym or weight room, or whatever.  2.0 requirements for sports are jokes.

See above. You want kids involved more than not involved. If kids are failing they are already likely feel disconnected from school and cutting out like dances, clubs, etc is likely to just ostracize them more. Than we have parents who might depend on their kid driving for various reasons.

1 hour ago, Juxtatarot said:

So if you have a 1.9 GPA you can't get a license but if you drop out of school you could?

Right, seems like we don’t want o encourage kids dropping out.

Edited by Ilov80s
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I don't think this is a school issue.  This is a parenting issue.  I would not allow my kids to have any extra curricular activities if they didn't keep their grades up.  This includes driving. 

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39 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

So if you have a 1.9 GPA you can't get a license but if you drop out of school you could?

Wouldn't you already be on the verge of dropping out if you have a 1.9 GPA?  Are kids really graduating high school with a 1.0 to 1.9?

 

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52 minutes ago, tri-man 47 said:

As a parent?  I'd say yes.  My child would need to be focused on success in school, and having a driver's license could be self-defeating as I wouldn't want the child to have the additional freedom that comes with driving (not to mention the fact that they shouldn't be working a lot of hours to pay car costs when they need to be studying).

But as a general policy - no.  I view that as overreach by the state.  Leave it to the families.

Similar belief.  We will likely have a GPA requirement for our daughter to drive when the time comes. 

 

I do not believe it should be tied to the state, though tied to criminal activity in a limited capacity.

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10 minutes ago, Gally said:

I don't think this is a school issue.  This is a parenting issue.  I would not allow my kids to have any extra curricular activities if they didn't keep their grades up.  This includes driving. 

I don’t know how the school could enforce this. Maybe revoke their parking pass?

Anyways, as a parent, my standards are higher than that so I wouldn’t have a problem. 

I think this thread could be a lot more interesting if you opened it up to suggestions from the FFA on how to make school better. 

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11 minutes ago, Arizona Ron said:

Wouldn't you already be on the verge of dropping out if you have a 1.9 GPA?  Are kids really graduating high school with a 1.0 to 1.9?

 

Yes they are- lots of low IQ and kids with disabilities getting 1.9 and graduating. Sometimes they are working pretty hard for that 1.9. We don’t need to punish these people even more.

Edited by Ilov80s
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1 hour ago, Standing Hampton said:

We're talking about the Enlightenment in world history this week, John Locke, Mary Wollstonecraft, Voltaire, etc., and I asked what they would do to change our high school.  Typical answers of food, start time, time between classes.  The usual.  They asked me and I said "change the driver's license policy so that students had to have a 2.0 gpa to get it".  I told them that something like that would "motivate" the students to do well in school.  Surprisingly, many agreed with me.  As a parent would you be on board?

I plan on sharing some of the comments, within reason, with my class tomorrow.  Filtered, of course.

You're talking about some sort of school DL policy, correct?   I guess I'm confused as to what the school's driver's license policy is and how it would be changed.  If you're saying the state would suspend or invalidate drivers licenses based on grades in school, that's a big hell no for me. I think that might actually be unconstitutional.

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2 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

I don’t know how the school could enforce this. Maybe revoke their parking pass?

I assume the OP would imply that schools would share data with the DMV. When it comes to public schools, both are government institutions so I guess that could happen. But, then what about private schools and home school? Force them to share grade data with the DMV?

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I don't have a lot of faith in schools and states being able to share real-time data.  What if the kid drops out of school and needs to get a job driving a truck to pay bills because the parents have medical issues? 

It sounds like the idea was originated to motivate kids but it's just going to end up in more regulation and oversight where it isn't needed.    

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7 minutes ago, Arizona Ron said:

I don't have a lot of faith in schools and states being able to share real-time data.  What if the kid drops out of school and needs to get a job driving a truck to pay bills because the parents have medical issues? 

It sounds like the idea was originated to motivate kids but it's just going to end up in more regulation and oversight where it isn't needed.    

It’s just a well intentioned but awful idea imo.

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14 minutes ago, Arizona Ron said:

I don't have a lot of faith in schools and states being able to share real-time data.  What if the kid drops out of school and needs to get a job driving a truck to pay bills because the parents have medical issues? 

It sounds like the idea was originated to motivate kids but it's just going to end up in more regulation and oversight where it isn't needed.    

In KY a student picks up a No-Pass No-Drive form or U-Drive from the school office and gets it filled out.  Schools send in a report every 6 months for students under 18. That’s about it as far as data sharing. Don’t think they can get their permit without it. Also can’t drop out until 18 anyway, but I am sure there are hardship exemptions.

It’s debatable whether or not it is worth it, but it really isn’t all that much work on either end.  On the student side, if you tank your grades it’s likely 6 months to a year before anything would happen and then they are pushing 18 and can get their full license anyway.

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1 hour ago, Rustoleum said:

In KY a student picks up a No-Pass No-Drive form or U-Drive from the school office and gets it filled out.  Schools send in a report every 6 months for students under 18. That’s about it as far as data sharing. Don’t think they can get their permit without it. Also can’t drop out until 18 anyway, but I am sure there are hardship exemptions.

It’s debatable whether or not it is worth it, but it really isn’t all that much work on either end.  On the student side, if you tank your grades it’s likely 6 months to a year before anything would happen and then they are pushing 18 and can get their full license anyway.

So it’s a waste of time?

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3 hours ago, Standing Hampton said:

We're talking about the Enlightenment in world history this week, John Locke.

Watching “Lost?” Nice. 😉

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2 hours ago, dgreen said:

I assume the OP would imply that schools would share data with the DMV. When it comes to public schools, both are government institutions so I guess that could happen. But, then what about private schools and home school? Force them to share grade data with the DMV?

This.  And yes to the latter questions, or take a test similar to now.

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19 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

So it’s a waste of time?

If you already don’t have the minimum grades it will keep you from getting your license, so maybe not a total waste of time if it keeps more teens off the road who aren’t ready for it yet, but it feels like a  bridge to a minimum age of 18 or eventually self-driving cars making driving an obsolete skill.

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2 hours ago, CletiusMaximus said:

You're talking about some sort of school DL policy, correct?   I guess I'm confused as to what the school's driver's license policy is and how it would be changed.  If you're saying the state would suspend or invalidate drivers licenses based on grades in school, that's a big hell no for me. I think that might actually be unconstitutional.

Correct.  There is no school license policy, other than passing drivers education to get your license.  Which amendment would you site as your source?  Not arguing, just curious.

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14 minutes ago, Johnny Rock said:

Watching “Lost?” Nice. 😉

This generation of high school student who has no idea who “that” John Locke is.

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25 minutes ago, Standing Hampton said:

Correct.  There is no school license policy, other than passing drivers education to get your license.  Which amendment would you site as your source?  Not arguing, just curious.

I would think this law would be vulnerable to an equal protection argument (14th) but I've not really thought it fully through.  It seems to me that getting a 2.0 can mean wildly different things in different schools and districts.  It can also mean different things to kids coming from different backgrounds and family situations.  Also, I would think you'd have to have some form of exemption for kids who need a license to work.  Where I grew up, there were lots of farmboys who were driving trucks to help support their family farms from a young age.  Then there's the problem of homeschooling, or schools with alternative grading systems.  It seems to me there are way too many variables and potential hardships that make this law a really bad idea.

 

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Hasn’t Uber/Lyft made getting a DL way less important (at least in urban settings)?

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14 minutes ago, Quint said:

Hasn’t Uber/Lyft made getting a DL way less important (at least in urban settings)?

Yes. For many reason the drivers license is not as important as it was. 

Put an age on getting a phone and then kids will care. 

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Also kids are obsessed with their phones. It’s all many of them care about. You might want to get a grip on that if your kids or grandkids have phones. 

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2.0 seems like a dang low expectation, no?

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3 minutes ago, EYLive said:

2.0 seems like a dang low expectation, no?

You should come and meet the general public sometime 

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11 minutes ago, EYLive said:

:rolleyes: Why would I lower my standards?

Don’t even try unless you have a jackhammer- you might hurt yourself 

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Honestly I don't think there's a direct correlation between being book smart and driving well. But if you want it strictly as a motivator, I guess there's worse incentive.

Edited by Insein

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3 minutes ago, Insein said:

Honestly I don't think there's a direct correlation between being book smart and driving well. But if you want it strictly as a motivator, I guess there's worse incentive.

There are worse incentives but that doesn’t make this incentive good

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3 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

There are worse incentives but that doesn’t make this incentive good

Nope it does not

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16 hours ago, Vanilla Guerrilla said:

Isn't there a pretty massive insurance cost to not being an A or B student?  I know my sister rifled on my niece at Christmas for getting 1 B or 1 C in a class, and one of the things she said was that when she gets her license, she'd have to pay her own insurance if they didn't get the good student discount.

Lol. It's nice to have but I think it's like 5%

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18 hours ago, Standing Hampton said:

We're talking about the Enlightenment in world history this week, John Locke, Mary Wollstonecraft, Voltaire, etc., and I asked what they would do to change our high school.  Typical answers of food, start time, time between classes.  The usual.  They asked me and I said "change the driver's license policy so that students had to have a 2.0 gpa to get it".  I told them that something like that would "motivate" the students to do well in school.  Surprisingly, many agreed with me.  As a parent would you be on board?

I plan on sharing some of the comments, within reason, with my class tomorrow.  Filtered, of course.

My parents would not allow any of us (my 3 sisters, my brother and myself) to even get our driver's license unless we made the honor roll.  Not just drive but even get our driver's license.  I think the big deal for my parents was that if we were all on the honor roll then they got a big break on auto insurance back then. Now this is back in the 70's and mid 80's, I don't know if that's still true or not?  Our middle sister was not big into studying so she didn't care about even getting her license so she didn't get hers until she was 18, the rest of us got ours at 16.

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17 hours ago, Vanilla Guerrilla said:

Isn't there a pretty massive insurance cost to not being an A or B student?  I know my sister rifled on my niece at Christmas for getting 1 B or 1 C in a class, and one of the things she said was that when she gets her license, she'd have to pay her own insurance if they didn't get the good student discount.

 

1 hour ago, belljr said:

Lol. It's nice to have but I think it's like 5%

But the kids don't know what the actual savings is.  It's a good excuse to incentivize your kids.  As a parent I totally use this is a condition of driving because it requires them to meet a goal and prove they are responsible enough for this privilege.

 

However,  I still think its a very bad idea to have the schools lay down this law.  It really is not their responsibility and will only lead to additional headaches because too many situations have circumstances that shouldn't be governed by the schools.   

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1 hour ago, belljr said:

Lol. It's nice to have but I think it's like 5%

I think it can be more and varies from carrier to carrier.  However, if we're talking about boys, any percentage is going to be a significant dollar savings.

 

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14 hours ago, Quint said:

Hasn’t Uber/Lyft made getting a DL way less important (at least in urban settings)?

I have several friends with kids in high school and college who don't have drivers licenses and seemingly have no interest.  One is a very smart, social kid, who is now in college.  I know his dad pretty well, as a neighbor. I frequently see him getting in his car, "I gotta go pick up (son) from his job and drop him off at his girlfriend's" (or similar).  Its disconcerting.  Not sure whether I should feel like an old getoffmylawn guy because me and all my friends got ours the day we turned 16, of if I can legitimately think this guy and his dad deserve my contempt.

 

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13 hours ago, Insein said:

Honestly I don't think there's a direct correlation between being book smart and driving well. But if you want it strictly as a motivator, I guess there's worse incentive.

What if they imposed a weight/health incentive as well?  Need to have XX BMI or no DL for you.

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21 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

I have several friends with kids in high school and college who don't have drivers licenses and seemingly have no interest.  One is a very smart, social kid, who is now in college.  I know his dad pretty well, as a neighbor. I frequently see him getting in his car, "I gotta go pick up (son) from his job and drop him off at his girlfriend's" (or similar).  Its disconcerting.  Not sure whether I should feel like an old getoffmylawn guy because me and all my friends got ours the day we turned 16, of if I can legitimately think this guy and his dad deserve my contempt.

 

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I don't think I'd want to tote my 16+ year old kids around when I didn't have to but the one thing he does have is knowledge of where his kid is generally.  I know when my 17 year old is out on a Friday or Saturday night, he's told me where he's going, but I don't know that 100%.

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Seems like a rule the parent should enforce, not the school.

Would dropping out even help? Doesn't a guardian have to sign forms to allow you to have a license at 16 and 17?

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36 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

What if they imposed a weight/health incentive as well?  Need to have XX BMI or no DL for you.

Not sure where you are going here.

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4 minutes ago, Insein said:

Not sure where you are going here.

I am guessing it is an example of something that is almost as random as tying a DL to getting a 2.0 GPA. 

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