What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Michigan`s Governor Whitmer proposing a new 46 cent a gallon tax hike (1 Viewer)

Da Guru

Fair & Balanced
Wow people are going crazy around here this morning.   Michigan already has the 5th highest gas tax in the USA and is .18 cents a gallon above the national average. This new tax proposal will put Michigan in the #1 spot by far.  I guess if we can`t get to #1 in football at least we will be #1 in something.

LANSING – Gov. Gretchen Whitmer will propose in her Tuesday budget a 45-cent-per-gallon increase in the fuel tax — phased in over a one-year period — to raise more than $2 billion to fix the state's  roads.

Tiffany Brown, a spokeswoman for Whitmer, said the first 15-cent increase would take effect Oct. 1, with another 15-cent hike on April 1, 2020, and the third increase on Oct. 1, 2020.

When fully implemented, the proposed tax hike would increase the cost of a fill up up between $7.00-$9.00 dollars per tank.

Whitmer's  proposal is expected to be a tough sell in a Republican-controlled Legislature that barely passed a much more modest hike in the fuel tax — 7.3 cents for regular fuel — in 2015.

Michigan taxes on fuel are already fifth-highest in the nation, and about 18 cents per gallon above the national average, largely because Michigan is one of a few states that applies its sales tax to fuel, according to a recent study by the Citizens Research Council of Michigan.

While Whitmer's proposal would appear to vault Michigan into first place in the nation in terms of fuel taxes, Brown said the governor would also propose unspecified measures to lessen the impact of the proposed increase on the pocketbooks of Michiganders.

Laura Cox, chairwoman of the Michigan Republican Party and former chair of the House Appropriations Committee, slammed the proposal as "a $2-billion tax increase that will break many Michiganders' budgets."

Cox said Michigan deserves "real solutions on this critical issue, not a tax and spend solution which places the burden on the state's already overtaxed families.”    

In seeking more than $2 billion for needed road repairs, Whitmer has three primary options — higher fuel taxes, higher vehicle registration taxes and fees, higher license plate taxes.

Kurt Weiss, a spokesman for the Department of Technology, Management and Budget, confirmed Monday that borrowing is not part of Whitmer's plan. He would not comment on whether a hike in registration fees will also be proposed.

Whitmer is to present her road funding plan to a joint meeting of the House and Senate appropriations committees at 11 a.m. Tuesday.

A bipartisan group of former state lawmakers recently proposed a 47-cent-per-gallon hike in the fuel tax, but that was over nine years not one year.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Do the roads need to be fixed? 

If so, what would be the best way to pay for it? 
Yes...the plan was to raise taxes over a period of time.   This plan is to raise it all in one year.   Right now Michigan is already heavily taxed on gas, license and registrations. Don`t know how much more they can put on working families.

 
Do the roads need to be fixed? 

If so, what would be the best way to pay for it? 
Repair costs due to road per year

I don’t think it’s ridiculous but I want to see her proposal. If we changed the tax laws and saved the consumer money while raising the gas tax so the overall cost was a wash and we raised money to fix/maintain the roads I’m for it. It needs an end date too, can’t just raise taxes this drastically indefinitely. We use roads every day, I don’t want to be dodging potholes everywhere.

 
Repair costs due to road per year

I don’t think it’s ridiculous but I want to see her proposal. If we changed the tax laws and saved the consumer money while raising the gas tax so the overall cost was a wash and we raised money to fix/maintain the roads I’m for it. It needs an end date too, can’t just raise taxes this drastically indefinitely. We use roads every day, I don’t want to be dodging potholes everywhere.
Listening to WJR this morning they said it was grand standing by Whitmer knowing that this will never pass.  Whitmer can then say "I tried" Gotta love politics

 
So you want construction vehicles to bear the brunt of the cost?
It is obviously not so simple, but off road construction vehicles are exempt from paying taxes on the diesel they use. Yet they they cause far more damage to a road when they get transported to a site than 7000 cars making the same trek. It is also not uncommon to have to drop the equipment and then drive it on the road. This causes tons of damage. 

That isnt exactly fair. 

 
It is obviously not so simple, but off road construction vehicles are exempt from paying taxes on the diesel they use. Yet they they cause far more damage to a road when they get transported to a site than 7000 cars making the same trek. It is also not uncommon to have to drop the equipment and then drive it on the road. This causes tons of damage. 

That isnt exactly fair. 
How about new construction or the cost to repair an 80 year old bridge that was designed to last 50?  Or upgrade an interchange that was designed to carry 1/3 of modern day traffic?  I say the people who use those roads. Unless you want people who don't drive to share in the cost.

 
Michigan roads, at least the ones near Ohio are laughably bad. When driving on them initially, I thought I was in the south.

 
It's not a popular opinion, but I'm always in favor of taxing gasoline.  The faster we can push the economics towards renewable energy sources the better.  yes, I realize that U.S exports oil and yes, I realize that this affects 'the little guy'. 

 
How about new construction or the cost to repair an 80 year old bridge that was designed to last 50?  Or upgrade an interchange that was designed to carry 1/3 of modern day traffic?  I say the people who use those roads. Unless you want people who don't drive to share in the cost.
Nobody "doesnt use the roads". Thats a myth. Get amazon deliveries? Use uber? Take the bus? Live in a high rise that required truck after truck after truck? How do you think the keg of beer got to your bar? How about your groceries? 

 
Nobody "doesnt use the roads". Thats a myth. Get amazon deliveries? Use uber? Take the bus? Live in a high rise that required truck after truck after truck? How do you think the keg of beer got to your bar? How about your groceries? 
Hard to argue.  You make a good case for a socialist type of system to pay for our infrastructure.  Everyone should share in the cost, regardless of use.  You got me.

 
Wow people are going crazy around here this morning.   Michigan already has the 5th highest gas tax in the USA and is .18 cents a gallon above the national average. This new tax proposal will put Michigan in the #1 spot by far.  I guess if we can`t get to #1 in football at least we will be #1 in something.
Currently PA is #1 in highest gas tax.   You are welcome to the title

 
Nobody "doesnt use the roads". Thats a myth. Get amazon deliveries? Use uber? Take the bus? Live in a high rise that required truck after truck after truck? How do you think the keg of beer got to your bar? How about your groceries? 
Gas taxes that affect the cost of deliveries are reflected in the price of delivered goods.

You’re right that everyone uses roads. But it’s also true that everyone already pays for the use of roads through gas taxes — even people who never directly buy gas. Gas taxes, therefore, are a perfectly good way to tax people who get stuff delivered.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Some would argue that a gasoline tax is regressive and hurts low-income folks who cannot afford to “upgrade” to an electric vehicle. 

 
Back of the napkin math for me.

I use approx 2.5 gallons of gas per day.  

at .45/c per gallon, that's an increase of $1.13 per day--$5.63/week -- $22.5/month.

Now I'm not much of a tax and spend guy...but Michigan roads are horrible..HORRIBLE....and if I have to drop $22.5 a month to have better roads, I am OK with it.  We can't continue to complain about the roads here and not start paying for them to be fixed.  

 
Gas taxes that affect the cost of deliveries are reflected in the price of delivered goods.

You’re right that everyone uses roads. But it’s also true that everyone already pays for the use of roads through gas taxes — even people who never directly buy gas.
True..a beer distributor that send out 60 trucks a day was on the radio this morning and just said the average truck the company sends out will have over $2000.00 more per year of fuel costs.  It will be the same with UPS, Fed-X, food distributors or any kind of delivery service.

Said if it passes the extra fuel costs will have to be passed on to the consumer.  So even if you don`t drive much everybody will be taxed in some way or another.

 
Some would argue that a gasoline tax is regressive and hurts low-income folks who cannot afford to “upgrade” to an electric vehicle. 
Not only that but in many urban areas, people are being priced out of the neighborhoods closest to good jobs forcing those who make less money to drive further.

 
True..a beer distributor that send out 60 trucks a day was on the radio this morning and just said the average truck the company sends out will have over $2000.00 more per year of fuel costs.  It will be the same with UPS, Fed-X, food distributors or any kind of delivery service.

Said if it passes the extra fuel costs will have to be passed on to the consumer.  So even if you don`t drive much everybody will be taxed in some way or another.
Scare tactic hogwash.  Price increases are not automatically passed on to the consumer.  The market will determine whether those increases will take or if the distributor will have to absorb the costs or find more efficient distribution methods. 

Not to mention what is the cost of the bad roads here now? How many accidents are directly attributable to the bad roads?  How much time is lost due to these issues?

 
Scare tactic hogwash.  Price increases are not automatically passed on to the consumer.  The market will determine whether those increases will take or if the distributor will have to absorb the costs or find more efficient distribution methods. 

Not to mention what is the cost of the bad roads here now? How many accidents are directly attributable to the bad roads?  How much time is lost due to these issues?
Disagree..distributors of bulk perishable products and have territory to service will pass it on.  May not be much but it will be passed on. I know how they operate.  If they need to slap on 10 cents a case to cover costs they will add 20 cents a case and end up with more profit that before.

 
Gas taxes that affect the cost of deliveries are reflected in the price of delivered goods.

You’re right that everyone uses roads. But it’s also true that everyone already pays for the use of roads through gas taxes — even people who never directly buy gas. Gas taxes, therefore, are a perfectly good way to tax people who get stuff delivered.
Those taxes arent evenly distributed. There should be no off road breaks and diesel should be taxed much heavier than it is if we were going to actually do it proportionately. 

At least in terms of "fixing our roads" funding. 

 
Some would argue that a gasoline tax is regressive and hurts low-income folks who cannot afford to “upgrade” to an electric vehicle. 
There is truth to this which is why I think other taxes should be much more progressive to compensate.  Other "sin taxes" like on cigarettes or sodas are also similarly regressive.  Part of the idea is to change behavior, not just to generate revenue.

 
There is truth to this which is why I think other taxes should be much more progressive to compensate.  Other "sin taxes" like on cigarettes or sodas are also similarly regressive.  Part of the idea is to change behavior, not just to generate revenue.
I dont think any state in America, today, wants to "change behavior" with a gasoline tax.  The less people drive the more they lose in gas tax revenue.   

Plus...using a forced program like taxes, imposed on us by a government entity to change behavior is NOT how I want to live.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
A 46-cent tax would bring the average price up to around $2.85/gallon.

From 2011-2014 the average price was over $3.50/gallon. Were the people calling for a revolt back then?

 
Disagree..distributors of bulk perishable products and have territory to service will pass it on.  May not be much but it will be passed on. I know how they operate.  If they need to slap on 10 cents a case to cover costs they will add 20 cents a case and end up with more profit that before.
Oh they may pass it on to the Kroger's and Walmart's of the world.  Doesn't mean it will be automatically passed on to us.  The market has a say. 

 
The DeVos family should pay for it.

In all seriousness, as a citizen of MI I would want to see the exact plan for the repairs, and the timeline. In other words, get to work on it. Otherwise they'll just take the revenues.

 
Oh they may pass it on to the Kroger's and Walmart's of the world.  Doesn't mean it will be automatically passed on to us.  The market has a say. 
I agree..but the margins at places like Kroger are pretty slim as it is.  They rely more on quantity sold. I don`t see them eating any increase.

 
There is truth to this which is why I think other taxes should be much more progressive to compensate.  Other "sin taxes" like on cigarettes or sodas are also similarly regressive.  Part of the idea is to change behavior, not just to generate revenue.
I am not a fan of roundabout taxation and resort fee style pricing. Leads to more agencies, audits, and bigger government. 

Also poor people buying less gas doesn't make a dent in the behaviors you want to change.

 
Gas taxes, in almost every state, go into a general fund, not earmarks. It's so disheartening to read the PSF and see otherwise smart policy people not grasp the very basics of general funds and whether the tax collected from a gas tax will actually go to fix the roads. 

I'm stunned that anybody would call this place politically "right" when this is the response to a whopping seven or eight buck increase for each tankful.  

 
A 46-cent tax would bring the average price up to around $2.85/gallon.

From 2011-2014 the average price was over $3.50/gallon. Were the people calling for a revolt back then?
Good thing the price cant ever go back up.
Personally, I think gas taxes should be inversely progressive so that they are lower when prices are higher.

But my main point is that people barely blinked when gas prices were 25% higher than they they'd be under the current proposal. People are freaked out by the word "tax", not by the actual implications.

 
Gas taxes, in almost every state, go into a general fund, not earmarks. It's so disheartening to read the PSF and see otherwise smart policy people not grasp the very basics of general funds and whether the tax collected from a gas tax will actually go to fix the roads. 
That is interesting - do you have a link for that?

I have always assumed the gas tax had a high correlation to road/highway repair budgets.  I don't know that I thought the funds were specifically earmarked - but like toll roads, I assumed the revenue was used to justify the highway budgets.

ETA - sort of like lottery funds are used for Education budgets.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gas taxes, in almost every state, go into a general fund, not earmarks. It's so disheartening to read the PSF and see otherwise smart policy people not grasp the very basics of general funds and whether the tax collected from a gas tax will actually go to fix the roads. 

I'm stunned that anybody would call this place politically "right" when this is the response to a whopping seven or eight buck increase for each tankful.  
Anyone that calls this board politically right is on some kind of drugs

 
Last edited by a moderator:
That is interesting - do you have a link for that?

I have always assumed the gas tax had a high correlation to road/highway repair budgets.  I don't know that I thought the funds were specifically earmarked - but like toll roads, I assumed the revenue was used to justify the highway budgets.

ETA - sort of like lottery funds are used for Education budgets.
I just looked up Kentucky:

Kentucky State Road Funds are receipts from motor vehicle usage tax, vehicle and boat registration, motor vehicle operator’s licenses, motor fuels tax, tolls, and interest. Road Funds are used for road construction, maintenance, operations, engineering, planning, and research, and the majority of administrative functions within the KYTC. The Kentucky Constitution prohibits the use of Road Funds on non-highway related uses.

The Kentucky Transportation Cabinet gets about 63% of its budget from the Road Funds.  6% come from Restricted Funds (bond issues), 30% come from Federal Funds, and 0.3% come from the General Fund.  "State General Funds may be used on any area of state responsibility, but are used primarily by KYTC to match federal dollars for the public transit and aviation programs."

 
Wow people are going crazy around here this morning.   Michigan already has the 5th highest gas tax in the USA and is .18 cents a gallon above the national average. This new tax proposal will put Michigan in the #1 spot by far.  I guess if we can`t get to #1 in football at least we will be #1 in something.

LANSING – Gov. Gretchen Whitmer will propose in her Tuesday budget a 45-cent-per-gallon increase in the fuel tax — phased in over a one-year period — to raise more than $2 billion to fix the state's  roads.

Tiffany Brown, a spokeswoman for Whitmer, said the first 15-cent increase would take effect Oct. 1, with another 15-cent hike on April 1, 2020, and the third increase on Oct. 1, 2020.

When fully implemented, the proposed tax hike would increase the cost of a fill up up between $7.00-$9.00 dollars per tank.

Whitmer's  proposal is expected to be a tough sell in a Republican-controlled Legislature that barely passed a much more modest hike in the fuel tax — 7.3 cents for regular fuel — in 2015.

Michigan taxes on fuel are already fifth-highest in the nation, and about 18 cents per gallon above the national average, largely because Michigan is one of a few states that applies its sales tax to fuel, according to a recent study by the Citizens Research Council of Michigan.

While Whitmer's proposal would appear to vault Michigan into first place in the nation in terms of fuel taxes, Brown said the governor would also propose unspecified measures to lessen the impact of the proposed increase on the pocketbooks of Michiganders.

Laura Cox, chairwoman of the Michigan Republican Party and former chair of the House Appropriations Committee, slammed the proposal as "a $2-billion tax increase that will break many Michiganders' budgets."

Cox said Michigan deserves "real solutions on this critical issue, not a tax and spend solution which places the burden on the state's already overtaxed families.”    

In seeking more than $2 billion for needed road repairs, Whitmer has three primary options — higher fuel taxes, higher vehicle registration taxes and fees, higher license plate taxes.

Kurt Weiss, a spokesman for the Department of Technology, Management and Budget, confirmed Monday that borrowing is not part of Whitmer's plan. He would not comment on whether a hike in registration fees will also be proposed.

Whitmer is to present her road funding plan to a joint meeting of the House and Senate appropriations committees at 11 a.m. Tuesday.

A bipartisan group of former state lawmakers recently proposed a 47-cent-per-gallon hike in the fuel tax, but that was over nine years not one year.
What always gets lost in the “Michigan has very high gas taxes “ argument is the fact that the sales tax & gas tax that are baked in the price of gas don’t go toward road funding. It goes to the general fund. The relatively small gas tax  + registration fre increases that were implemented a couple years ago do go directly to roads; the rest does not. 

Edit: i see this was brought up a few posts ago. I work in the industry & this is constantly discussed with regard to  “why can’t we get more funding?” 

In Michigan , Act 51 dictates how the road funding is distributed throughout the state; it disproportionately rewards the rural areas. That also contributes to the lousy road conditions. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I dont think any state in America, today, wants to "change behavior" with a gasoline tax.  The less people drive the more they lose in gas tax revenue.   

Plus...using a forced program like taxes, imposed on us by a government entity to change behavior is NOT how I want to live.  
Lots of stuff I've read about increasing gas taxes has mentioned changed behavior as one of the primary reasons to do so.  I recognize that some people find these sorts of sin taxes objectionable, personally I'm a big fan.   

 
What always gets lost in the “Michigan has very high gas taxes “ argument is the fact that the sales tax & gas tax that are baked in the price of gas don’t go toward road funding. It goes to the general fund.
A quick google search shows that the Michigan Constitution requires money to be used for Transportation purposes

Act 51 - then dictates how that money is spent:

Article IX, Section 9, of the Michigan Constitution of 1963, as amended, states that "All specific taxes . . . imposed directly or indirectly on fuels sold or used to propel motor vehicles upon highways. . . or on registered motor vehicles . . . shall, after payment of necessary collection expenses, be used exclusively for transportation purposes. . ." Public Act 51 of 1951, as amended ("Act 51") governs the distribution of this revenue. The following pages summarize this distribution. Act 51 creates a fund into which specific transportation taxes are deposited, and prescribes how these revenues are to be distributed and the purposes for which they can be spent. Act 51 establishes jurisdictional road networks, sets priorities for the use of transportation revenues, and allows bonded indebtedness for transportation improvements and guarantees repayment of debt.

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/act51simple_28749_7.pdf

How does Michigan get away with violating the constitution and state code?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I just looked up Kentucky:

Kentucky State Road Funds are receipts from motor vehicle usage tax, vehicle and boat registration, motor vehicle operator’s licenses, motor fuels tax, tolls, and interest. Road Funds are used for road construction, maintenance, operations, engineering, planning, and research, and the majority of administrative functions within the KYTC. The Kentucky Constitution prohibits the use of Road Funds on non-highway related uses.

The Kentucky Transportation Cabinet gets about 63% of its budget from the Road Funds.  6% come from Restricted Funds (bond issues), 30% come from Federal Funds, and 0.3% come from the General Fund.  "State General Funds may be used on any area of state responsibility, but are used primarily by KYTC to match federal dollars for the public transit and aviation programs."
Yeah, I know in California and CT that the transportation tax levies wind up funding general fund projects. 

I also know that California was voting on an amendment to its Constitution to do the same thing Michigan does.  

 
How about new construction or the cost to repair an 80 year old bridge that was designed to last 50?  Or upgrade an interchange that was designed to carry 1/3 of modern day traffic?  I say the people who use those roads. Unless you want people who don't drive to share in the cost.
I don't have kids but pay into the school system.  All for the greater good, no?  If I buy that logic, then I would prefer that the non-drivers also pitch in on the roads.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top