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We should have more sin taxes (1 Viewer)

Dickies said:
Should just make bottled water illegal TBH
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I get the fact it is helping people get clean water in emergencies and in third world countries, etc.  But day to day, 20 brands, 10 sizes in every store and the criminals like this are getting away with profiting from it.

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/columnists/mike-thompson/2018/04/09/netstle-water-michigan/494984002/

https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/nestle-gets-away-pumping-californias-water-next-nothing/

 
matttyl said:
I buy beer.  I like beer.  I'm cool with them taxing it (more).  I also buy gasoline.  I'd be cool with a (higher) tax on it....would make me think even harder about a Tesla or similar vehicle (which is the point of the tax, right?). 
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Given how destructive alcohol is (at least by a study a few years ago far and away the most destructive drug consumed in the US (opiods may have caught it)) alcohol should be taxed way, way higher.  The social costs are very high.  (Not to mention it's the most fattening thing we consume).

On gasoline use and going to electric - it depends on the state, but for most states you're trading gasoline for natural gas.  It's better, but electric vehicles aren't going to be carbon free, for sure.

D-Day said:
One of the issues about taxing gasoline is that tax income is supposed to be used for infrastructure.  If gas usage drops due to less driving, more efficient vehicles, or electric vehicles, where is the money for safe roads and bridges going to come from?  Overly taxing consumables such as tires could create safety hazards (wait until those tires are REALLY bald before replacing).  Taxing license plates would be an issue due to paying at once instead of smaller payments over time.  
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If government is good at anything it's figuring out how to tax people.  Taxing registrations is probably the way to go.  Mileage trackers are a no-go with the electorate.  I agree about tires.

 
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matttyl said:
Well, please share.  Yes, they have lower life expectancy, but they still have high claims while alive.  Actually, they tend to have higher claims (much higher claims), but as you point out they do so for a shorter period of time.  The kicker is that they also pay into the system a shorter amount of time.  A dead guy isn't paying Medicare taxes.
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They might never get Medicare benefits either.

 
urbanhack said:
I get the fact it is helping people get clean water in emergencies and in third world countries, etc.  But day to day, 20 brands, 10 sizes in every store and the criminals like this are getting away with profiting from it.

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/columnists/mike-thompson/2018/04/09/netstle-water-michigan/494984002/

https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/nestle-gets-away-pumping-californias-water-next-nothing/
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Most of it is just tap water that is bottled and sold at a 1000%+ mark-up.  I do my best to boycott anything owned by Nestle.

 
Dickies said:
Most of it is just tap water that is bottled and sold at a 1000%+ mark-up.  I do my best to boycott anything owned by Nestle.
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I remember when to drink bottled water was environmentally conscious because of concerns about water quality in America. 

How times have changed. 

Bill Burr absolutely kills the greed of Nestle and its hoarding of water. I mean, what gives with these people?  

 
Sand said:
On gasoline use and going to electric - it depends on the state, but for most states you're trading gasoline for natural gas.  It's better, but electric vehicles aren't going to be carbon free, for sure.
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Yes, but I’d be doing it for the money it would save me (gas vs buying electricity). I’m not doing it for some misguided belief that I’ll be totally carbon free.  The fewer emissions part, to me, is just a nice bonus.  It’s just a financial decision - one I’m still crunching the math on.  But a higher gas tax would certainly push me to going electric.  Just like if electricity rates keep going up it will push me to go solar.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
Why do people get so mad at fat people?  I've seen a ton of fat people and I've never gotten upset.  Am I missing something?  Did fat people kick a puppy or welsh on an election bet?  

Why are people so angry with fat people eating fattening food?  :confused:
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We are pre disposed to think of fat people as consuming too many resources.  

The entire existence of fat people in this country in all but the top 1% is a very recent phenomenon. 

We have only just begun to feel the weight of this issue bearing down. It has the potential to crush our medical system.  Taxation helped with smoking.  It can help here too. 

 
Sand said:
Given how destructive alcohol is (at least by a study a few years ago far and away the most destructive drug consumed in the US (opiods may have caught it)) alcohol should be taxed way, way higher.  The social costs are very high.  (Not to mention it's the most fattening thing we consume).

On gasoline use and going to electric - it depends on the state, but for most states you're trading gasoline for natural gas.  It's better, but electric vehicles aren't going to be carbon free, for sure.

If government is good at anything it's figuring out how to tax people.  Taxing registrations is probably the way to go.  Mileage trackers are a no-go with the electorate.  I agree about tires.
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Registration taxes in Texas are based on a percentage of gross weight.  They make no adjustment for mileage. 

 
Juxtatarot said:
Just for kicks, I did the math.  For this plan to work, everyone (including old people and babies) has to qualify for the 25 cent tax 28,132 times a day. 
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Sure, sure. But you are forgetting that old people have so much free time and young kids have so much energy.

 
Dickies said:
Most of it is just tap water that is bottled and sold at a 1000%+ mark-up.  I do my best to boycott anything owned by Nestle.
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Still cracks me up that water cost more than gasoline.

Standing in line at the store and I see a 16oz bottle of water for $1.29 .... lol, suckers.

Thankfully my house is on well water with a super duper filter. I bottle my own.

 
Sin taxes are already a thing on smokes and booze.  Gas taxes are already a thing too.   Ohio is adding a $0.17 tax/gallon in a few months.  I expect more sin taxes and more taxes in general over time.   

 
TheIronSheik said:
Why do people get so mad at fat people?  I've seen a ton of fat people and I've never gotten upset.  Am I missing something?  Did fat people kick a puppy or welsh on an election bet?  

Why are people so angry with fat people eating fattening food?  :confused:
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Jealousy

 
culdeus said:
Registration taxes in Texas are based on a percentage of gross weight.  They make no adjustment for mileage. 
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That makes a lot of sense (unusual for a government - ours does it by value).  The heavier, the more damage to roads it will do.  There has been talk of tracking people's mileage and charging taxes by the mile.  Big "no effing way" from me - I have no interest in the government surveil my driving habits.

As a corollary we have a nutball state rep here who wants to make cyclists get bike registrations "cause, you know, they use the roads".  Yeah, even my fat ### isn't causing road damage, bud.

 
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DocHolliday said:
Sin taxes are already a thing on smokes and booze.  Gas taxes are already a thing too.   Ohio is adding a $0.17 tax/gallon in a few months.  I expect more sin taxes and more taxes in general over time.   
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Alabama is trying to shove through a 10 cent gas tax with a 1 cent escalation every two years (automatic).  Funny how the automatic escalations are applied to taxes but rarely to other things - minimum wage, AMT, tax rates in some places, etc.  The tax is going over like a lead balloon at the moment.

 
DocHolliday said:
Sin taxes are already a thing on smokes and booze.  Gas taxes are already a thing too.   Ohio is adding a $0.17 tax/gallon in a few months.  I expect more sin taxes and more taxes in general over time.   
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It took them forever but they figured out there is more money in sin taxes than in putting people in jail.

 
a soda tax might just work

Based on the survey results from 1,513 Berkeley [CA] residents between 2014 and 2017, Kristine Madsen, Ph.D., the faculty director of UC Berkeley’s Food Institute, found that sugary drink consumption in Berkeley has decreased by 52 percentsince the soda tax was implemented. Consumption habits in nearby cities without the same long-standing soda tax remained the same.
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Nathan R. Jessep said:
a soda tax might just work

Based on the survey results from 1,513 Berkeley [CA] residents between 2014 and 2017, Kristine Madsen, Ph.D., the faculty director of UC Berkeley’s Food Institute, found that sugary drink consumption in Berkeley has decreased by 52 percentsince the soda tax was implemented. Consumption habits in nearby cities without the same long-standing soda tax remained the same.
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I would guess that students going to Berkeley have a certain commonality that might have skewed the data a bit to know if it really works or not. 

 
do any of you brohans drink soda pop any more i drink fizzy water like lacroise and stuff but never pop i cannot think of the last time i had a coke or a pepsi honestly take that to the bank bromigos 

 
Nathan R. Jessep said:
a soda tax might just work
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Maybe not

The result? There was a massive, 42% plunge in the sales of affected drinks within Philadelphia. Sales fell most in the wealthiest neighborhoods.

But there was no corresponding jump in the sales of untaxed drinks. They actually went down too, though only by a few percentage points. Instead, there was simply a huge jump in the sales of sugared and sweetened drinks in stores just outside the city.

“Compared to the decrease of 51,000 ounces of taxed beverages at the average store in Philadelphia, we find an even larger increase of 61,000 ounces (per store) in stores up to 2 miles away from the city,” the researchers found.

 
JaxBill said:
Maybe not

The result? There was a massive, 42% plunge in the sales of affected drinks within Philadelphia. Sales fell most in the wealthiest neighborhoods.

But there was no corresponding jump in the sales of untaxed drinks. They actually went down too, though only by a few percentage points. Instead, there was simply a huge jump in the sales of sugared and sweetened drinks in stores just outside the city.

“Compared to the decrease of 51,000 ounces of taxed beverages at the average store in Philadelphia, we find an even larger increase of 61,000 ounces (per store) in stores up to 2 miles away from the city,” the researchers found.
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:lol:  Yeah, pretty predictable. I saw Philly mentioned in that other article and was curious about the results there. The Berkeley study probably had similar results if they had surveyed the surrounding areas.  

As the other one mentions, anything short of a large-scale push will likely not yield meaningful results. And the soda industry will have something to say about that happening. 

 
JaxBill said:
Maybe not

The result? There was a massive, 42% plunge in the sales of affected drinks within Philadelphia. Sales fell most in the wealthiest neighborhoods.

But there was no corresponding jump in the sales of untaxed drinks. They actually went down too, though only by a few percentage points. Instead, there was simply a huge jump in the sales of sugared and sweetened drinks in stores just outside the city.

“Compared to the decrease of 51,000 ounces of taxed beverages at the average store in Philadelphia, we find an even larger increase of 61,000 ounces (per store) in stores up to 2 miles away from the city,” the researchers found.
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Yes.  And a lot of stores went out of business because people went to the stores outside of the city to do all of their shopping while picking up sodas.

 
Not really the same thing, well I guess it is....

Had to spend a lot of time recently in Children's National Hospital in DC with my kid (they are fine now).  As parent's meals aren't provided (like they had been in a prior hospital we had been in), wife and I had to go to the large cafeteria there every day.  They don't sell 12 oz regular sodas, only smaller 8 oz (I think) varieties, right next to the 12 oz diet variety.  Same price.  Right beside all of it were bottled water, priced less.  Looking around, not a lot of 8 oz bottles being sold.  We just used the water bottle filling stations with our refillable bottles.  Maybe that's the way to do it?

 
Wow, didn't realize that Oats was for legislating morality.  Figured he was more liberal than that.

 
SWC said:
do any of you brohans drink soda pop any more i drink fizzy water like lacroise and stuff but never pop i cannot think of the last time i had a coke or a pepsi honestly take that to the bank bromigos 
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I'm all aboard that Lacroix train with you.  Haven't touched an actual soda in years. 

But I'm still kinda chubby. :kicksrock:  

 
urbanhack said:
I get the fact it is helping people get clean water in emergencies and in third world countries, etc.  But day to day, 20 brands, 10 sizes in every store and the criminals like this are getting away with profiting from it.

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/columnists/mike-thompson/2018/04/09/netstle-water-michigan/494984002/

https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/nestle-gets-away-pumping-californias-water-next-nothing/
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Nestle is a company that should be wiped from the face of the planet. It's bad enough they supported the nazis, but the CEO doesn't think water should be a human right, calling that 'extreme'. What a piece of work. 

 
This will go down in FFA history as another one of those many “Otis was right” moments. 

 
It’s tough to think of something for all the sins:

Lust - Pornography tax

Gluttony - Soft drinks, candy, bleached flour, red meat

Greed - Increase taxes on anyone earning double the US median income, around $125K. Gambling.

Sloth - Gasoline, valets, video games, escalator/elevator tax

Wrath - I guess this includes self destructive behavior, like tobacco and alcohol use. Maybe guns too

Envy -  Cosmetic surgery, hair loss products, testosterone supplements

Pride - “Luxury items” like yachts, mansions, fancy cars, purses, watches, etc.

 
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