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Cost Of Living And Arts... (1 Viewer)

I know some of you weigh these types of thing. I do too sometimes.

Thought this article was interesting. https://www.apartmenttherapy.com/low-cost-of-living-city-benefits-267836

I'd never thought of the idea that people who aren't working so hard to make enough money to pay for housing might have more time for cooler stuff.

It's sort of the Universal Basic Income argument I know. Interesting. 
That's me. My company moved almost 10 years ago to a pretty depressed area about 400 miles up I-81 from you. I still make "big city" money, but live in an area where most make less than half of what I do.

When I first started looking for housing here, I wanted something with a ton of land and gorgeous views. I ended up buying a small (1,200 sq ft) house in town. I live alone, and it allows me to do pretty much whatever I want when I want. What the hell do I need a mansion for?

My tax accountant (friend of the family) told me this year that my % of mortgage-vs-income is the lowest of all of his clients. Granted, he mostly deals with really high-rollers, but still....

 
This is one of the basic tenets of FI/RE (Financial Independence/Retire Early) -- living and/or retiring in a low cost of living (LCOL) area helps maximize savings opportunities - and therefore the ability to accumulate wealth, generate more passive income opportunities, etc.) by allocating less of your income to ongoing (and arguably needless) living expenses. 

I'm a huge city kid -- born, raised, and lived all my life in some of the most metropolitan and HCOL areas in North America. Looking at LCOL areas is definitely a strategy I'll be looking at once the kids are in college and we're potentially more fungible where we can live, and where my earning power as a professional has peaked.

But one big downside I know I'll potentially need to (and may never) get used to is living in areas with much less mutliculturalism, vibrancy, things to do/see/experience. Louisville KY (the town mentioned in the linked article) is not a center of culture and diversity, which is something I cherish and get a lot out of in terms of where I live. 

 
I know some of you weigh these types of thing. I do too sometimes.

Thought this article was interesting. https://www.apartmenttherapy.com/low-cost-of-living-city-benefits-267836

I'd never thought of the idea that people who aren't working so hard to make enough money to pay for housing might have more time for cooler stuff.

It's sort of the Universal Basic Income argument I know. Interesting. 
I highly recommend Detroit for this reason. Cost of living is so much lower than Chicago or LA. You get the perks of a big city: art, concerts, theater, sports, bars/foodie culture, etc but at a lower cost and without being overcrowded.

Also if you want to actually live cheap and be a cool young person living the life we imagine of a Kerouac, beatnik or hipster, it’s actually affordable in Detroit. We have real hipsters and not the kind living off of their parents fortune like one might find in NY.

 
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But one big downside I know I'll potentially need to (and may never) get used to is living in areas with much less mutliculturalism, vibrancy, things to do/see/experience. Louisville KY (the town mentioned in the linked article) is not a center of culture and diversity, which is something I cherish and get a lot out of in terms of where I live. 




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Thanks. Can you elaborate in detail on what the "mutliculturalism, vibrancy, things to do/see/experience" looks like? What specific types of things and experiences do you mean? Thanks. 

 
One cool thing is that technology and cheap travel make it easy to experience arts and other things so much more easily. It's not always able to be experienced at quite the same level or in quite the same quick access, but you can. Want to see some artwork? Pull it up on the internet. Want to see a movie in high quality? Put it up on you 65" or 80" 4k TV and your surround system and enjoy. Want to listen to millions of different songs? Pull it up on any number of streaming services. Etc etc. Want to see some amazing monument, musical, exhibit, whatever in person? A few hundred bucks and you can fly round trip just about anywhere in the country. 

Big diverse cities still offer a wider variety of things, more immediacy, more intimacy, etc, but smaller towns are no longer locked away from culture like they once were.

 
Small college town is great living. Grew up in one. 

Once I’m all spent will most likely be selling Seattle house. Buying place in smaller college town, a couple rental properties, and call it a day.

 
One cool thing is that technology and cheap travel make it easy to experience arts and other things so much more easily. It's not always able to be experienced at quite the same level or in quite the same quick access, but you can. Want to see some artwork? Pull it up on the internet. Want to see a movie in high quality? Put it up on you 65" or 80" 4k TV and your surround system and enjoy. Want to listen to millions of different songs? Pull it up on any number of streaming services. Etc etc. Want to see some amazing monument, musical, exhibit, whatever in person? A few hundred bucks and you can fly round trip just about anywhere in the country. 

Big diverse cities still offer a wider variety of things, more immediacy, more intimacy, etc, but smaller towns are no longer locked away from culture like they once were.
Was thinking about this the other day. Retail is another one. 

I'm 55. I remember being in High School in 1981 and visiting Dallas and finding the most incredible store my 17 year old brain could imagine: Brad Sham's Big Lead Threads. WHERE YOU COULD BUY AN ACTUAL BASEBALL JERSEY LIKE THE PROS WOULD WEAR.  It was unheard of for me. 

Now every kid with an internet connection has that at his fingertips. 

 
I highly recommend Detroit for this reason. Cost of living is so much lower than Chicago or LA. You get the perks of a big city: art, concerts, theater, sports, bars/foodie culture, etc but at a lower cost and without being overcrowded.

Also if you want to actually live cheap and be a cool young person living the life we imagine of a Kerouac, beatnik or hipster, it’s actually affordable in Detroit. We have real hipsters and not the kind living off of their parents fortune like one might find in NY.
I agree but it is changing.  The original hip places like Royal Oak and Ferndale are turning upscale and now very pricy. So the people started moving to downtown Detroit because it was so affordable.  Now everything in downtown Detroit has skyrocketed with all the new development pricing people out of that area. All the upstart restaurants and bars that got in on the ground floor 5-10 years ago are in good shape.  To have a startup now in downtown Detroit would require much more investment.

It is still much cheaper than Chicago though.

 
I agree but it is changing.  The original hip places like Royal Oak and Ferndale are turning upscale and now very pricy. So the people started moving to downtown Detroit because it was so affordable.  Now everything in downtown Detroit has skyrocketed with all the new development pricing people out of that area. All the upstart restaurants and bars that got in on the ground floor 5-10 years ago are in good shape.  To have a startup now in downtown Detroit would require much more investment.

It is still much cheaper than Chicago though.
Damn. I lived in Royal Oak 45 years ago. My parents are probably kicking themselves for moving to Phoenix and not waiting out the Detroit downturn.

 
Also if you want to actually live cheap and be a cool young person living the life we imagine of a Kerouac, beatnik or hipster, it’s actually affordable in Detroit. We have real hipsters and not the kind living off of their parents fortune like one might find in NY.
One of the worst things about L.A. are the hipsters. No way am I moving to Detroit for Michigan hipsters.

 
Want to see some artwork? Pull it up on the internet. Want to see a movie in high quality? Put it up on you 65" or 80" 4k TV and your surround system and enjoy. Want to listen to millions of different songs? Pull it up on any number of streaming services. Etc etc.
😵 Ummm... Museums, live theater and live music can't be replaced by internet and TV. Neither can food and architecture.

 
One of the worst things about L.A. are the hipsters. No way am I moving to Detroit for Michigan hipsters.
Well they are in every city and in no way would I encourage someone to move their to be around hipsters. I’m saying if one is a young artist or hipster type and wants to live the authentic life, it’s doable in Detroit. I don’t know how anyone in LA affords it. It makes me think they are fake. 

 
😵 Ummm... Museums, live theater and live music can't be replaced by internet and TV. Neither can food and architecture.
But it's really easy to travel somewhere to see museums, theater, and art.  It would be possible to live somewhere affordable and travel to a big city once a month for all of that. Added bonus: doesn't always have to be the same big city.

 
But it's really easy to travel somewhere to see museums, theater, and art.  It would be possible to live somewhere affordable and travel to a big city once a month for all of that. Added bonus: doesn't always have to be the same big city.
Sure and ofcourse it depends on how much you enjoy those things. I like that any given weekend I can just decide to go see a world class symphony or on a weekday just pop into a world class art museum for free. 

 
Sure and ofcourse it depends on how much you enjoy those things. I like that any given weekend I can just decide to go see a world class symphony or on a weekday just pop into a world class art museum for free. 
sure you can, but do you actually do it?  Or, is it like when I lived in Florida - the beach was 10 minutes from my house.  Any given weekend I could be on the beach.  I almost never went (after being there for 6 months or so).

 
Damn. I lived in Royal Oak 45 years ago. My parents are probably kicking themselves for moving to Phoenix and not waiting out the Detroit downturn.
Well..45 years is a long wait.  But Royal Oak has been booming now for well over 20 years and that trickled into Ferndale.  I like Ferndale but things get a little dicey around the 8 Mile border of Detroit.

 
sure you can, but do you actually do it?  Or, is it like when I lived in Florida - the beach was 10 minutes from my house.  Any given weekend I could be on the beach.  I almost never went (after being there for 6 months or so).
I go through phases but I have been a season ticket holder for the Detroit Symphony Orchestra, ticket season holder for Michigan football, and while I don't go to small venue rock concerts like I used to when garage rock was really big here, I do visit the Henry Ford Museum and DIA a few times each year. I regularly go to the old historic movie theaters that play classic films as well. Also the bar and restaurant scene is something I try to hit up 3-4x a month. Not having kids certainly creates a lot of time for me. 

 
I go through phases but I have been a season ticket holder for the Detroit Symphony Orchestra, ticket season holder for Michigan football, and while I don't go to small venue rock concerts like I used to when garage rock was really big here, I do visit the Henry Ford Museum and DIA a few times each year. I regularly go to the old historic movie theaters that play classic films as well. Also the bar and restaurant scene is something I try to hit up 3-4x a month. Not having kids certainly creates a lot of time for me.  
sounds awesome.

 
😵 Ummm... Museums, live theater and live music can't be replaced by internet and TV. Neither can food and architecture.
Who said replaced? Of course the original will be better for most things. But 30 years ago, it wouldn't have been possible to even have exposure to most of that stuff. Now, huge amounts of people can at least get a taste of it thanks to technology. And as technology continues to improve, the virtual experience will get closer and closer to the live experience. It will never replace it, but my guess is that it will come close on a lot of elements.

Rather than be guarded and snobbish about such things, we should celebrate the fact that it's so easy for so many to enjoy the arts and the diversity of creativity. 

 
Thanks. Can you elaborate in detail on what the "mutliculturalism, vibrancy, things to do/see/experience" looks like? What specific types of things and experiences do you mean? Thanks. 
Just to stay with the example given in the article -- simply put, Louisville is not New York. Or Toronto. Or LA, San Francisco, etc.

There is a tangible differences between these kinds of cities - in terms of scale, in terms of vibrancy, things to do/see/experience, the sheer number of different ethnicities and the opportunity to immerse yourself in those cultures as a result.

Is Louisville multicultural? Of course. It's universities and businesses provide a draw from many different backgrounds and ethnicities within and without the US. I am sure it's seen big growth from a percentage standpoint of other backgrounds, for example the Asian and Latino communities, as population and the city grows and changes. 

But it is still relatively small and homogeneous -- in actual statistics and in its more provincial feel -- compared to a city like NYC or San Fran, or say Toronto where over half of the city's residents are of a visible minority. In turn, that diversity drives much more opportunity, volume, and breadth of experience in terms of culture and everything that goes with it (food, art, museums, festivals, music, sights, smells, engaging different people from different backgrounds, you name it).

That's not to say I feel snobbish towards cities with populations smaller than 5 million. Every city is an experience and has tons to do/see/experience -- multicultural-wise and not, for residents and visitors alike. I've enjoyed the time I've spent in Louisville immensely. But not sure I would want to live there permanently compared to other cities that to me personally, have a lot more to offer.

You can take the kid out of the big city, but you can't take the big city out of this kid, I guess.

 

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