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DallasDMac

Finland... A model of how to do it right?

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I always find these articles sort of interesting. Happiest and unhappiest countries. Finland dominated. If folks are so happy there, why don't more countries model their structure?

Finland #1, US at #19

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Its much easier to run a country the size of Los Angeles than it is to run the entire US. 

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It's hard to make it dark here for that many hours in the winter 

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Finland is awesome.  That's why more people emigrate to Finland than any other country in the world.  To live the Finnish Dream.

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The only thing I know about people from Finland is that they drink a lot and throw knives.

Not sure which leads to happiness....

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4 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Finland is awesome.  That's why more people emigrate to Finland than any other country in the world.  To live the Finnish Dream.

Pretty sure most Fins would be ok with burning Russians in their cars if you ever need a test market.

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Jari Kurri always seemed happy, although playing alongside Wayne Gretzky and on arguably the greatest teams in NHL history will do that.

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"With a population of just over 5.5 million people, Finland is the only country in the developed world where fathers spend more time with school-aged children than mothers."

 

So moms are the reason we are unhappy!  :rant:

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25 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Finland is awesome.  That's why more people emigrate to Finland than any other country in the world.  To live the Finnish Dream.

Recently they have had a lot of problems with marathon runners trying to cross into the country at the border.   

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31 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Recently they have had a lot of problems with marathon runners trying to cross into the country at the border.   

They had that in 1939 also....

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1 hour ago, DallasDMac said:

I always find these articles sort of interesting. Happiest and unhappiest countries. Finland dominated. If folks are so happy there, why don't more countries model their structure?

Finland #1, US at #19

Easier said than done.

You would have to roll back history and find a way that the US was a dominant force in the world without all the Finns now being German.

You would have to change our culture where we value happiness over innovation and acquiring stuff.  Not sure you could put that genie back in the bottle now.

You would have to slow our population growth as Finland's is pretty stable.  

You would have to find a way to eliminate the ethnic diversity in the US.

 

Ethnic groups in Finland.

Finn 93.4%, Swede 5.6%, Russian 0.5%, Estonian 0.3%, Romani 0.1%, Sami 0.1% (2006)

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Ethnic groups in Finland.

Finn 93.4%, Swede 5.6%, Russian 0.5%, Estonian 0.3%, Romani 0.1%, Sami 0.1% (2006)

I just learned I am 12% Sami.

Which is what this thread is about.

 

Edited by matuski

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11 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

You would have to find a way to eliminate the ethnic diversity in the US.

Are we sure that's what makes people happy?

Anyway, this thread is getting spiked or moved to the PSF toot-sweet.

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7 minutes ago, matuski said:

I just learned I am 12% Sami.

Which is what this thread is about.

 

Ya know, that explains a lot

😛

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Your mountains so lofty
Your treetops so tall
Finland , Finland , Finland
Finland has it all

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5 minutes ago, kevzilla said:

Are we sure that's what makes people happy?

Anyway, this thread is getting spiked or moved to the PSF toot-sweet.

I'm confident that their are people in this country that are unhappy because they are being discriminated against.

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Posted (edited)

If we could somehow get rid of 320 million people the USA could be just like Finland. SISU!!

I was in Finland when I worked at Ford. Coming from Metro-Detroit is was so different.  Whitest country I have ever visited. Just seemed like nothing there but honkies.

Edited by Da Guru

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6 minutes ago, kevzilla said:
19 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

You would have to find a way to eliminate the ethnic diversity in the US.

Are we sure that's what makes people happy?

Anyway, this thread is getting spiked or moved to the PSF toot-sweet.

It's not so much what makes people happy or unhappy directly, it's that it's easier to pass policy and say "we're all in this together" when genetically (in a nationality sense), you all kind of are. 

Most of our problems and inability to move forward on a lot of things (healthcare/etc) is indirectly tied to "those other people..." - religion, race, culture, etc. 

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I'm sure no one is arguing for 'racial purity' in here. But someone less charitable than me could take it that way.

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They dominate that sport where you cross country ski for miles with periodic breaks to shoot a BB gun at metal plates. 

That looks really hard.

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1 hour ago, The General said:

They dominate that sport where you cross country ski for miles with periodic breaks to shoot a BB gun at metal plates. 

That looks really hard.

They also have fantastic sim racers.

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1 hour ago, kevzilla said:

I'm sure no one is arguing for 'racial purity' in here. But someone less charitable than me could take it that way.

I don't think anyone is either (certainly not myself) - my post was just an observation at the ridiculous divides that hurt us / keep us from real progress. I think on a certain level, they are unavoidable. This goes back hundreds of thousands of years, when one small group said "we don't like those people over there - they live differently than we do."

At a very basic level, almost all political argument and social ills boil down to how we collectively decide to split and allocate our resources / money. It's much easier to do that when everyone, on a core level, are fundamentally of the same mindset / background / etc.

Now, on the flipside of that, the USA has also demonstrated how incredibly awesome diversity is. We lead the world, and our diversity is a big part of the reason why - we get all cultures and ideas here, and they all bring something good to the table. But the old growing pains are still there, and they are keeping us from doing even greater things. I wish these growing pains would go away, and everyone could be more accepting of others (I think our diversity is fantastic) but we aren't quite there yet. 

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Since this will inevitably degenerate into an argument for socialistic policies be adopted in the US because Finland (and other Nordic countries are socialistic), let's get it straight that Finland and the rest of the Nordic countries are not socialistic. And maybe, just maybe, we can keep this to a productive conversation instead of a PSF cesspool.  

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Posted (edited)

The first stat that ever reeeeally impressed me is almost 50 yrs old, but pertinent to this.

When heart disease was still ahead of cancer as America's #1 health issue (that a whole nuther ball o' wax) and they were 1st considering the impact of cholesterol, they published some rankings which pointed out that the country of Ireland had the highest satfat intake in Europe, but the 2nd lowest rate of heart disease.

I remember that because i immediately knew why. The lady who sponsored my family over from the ol' Sod left a trust which sent me back to Ireland for a couple wks each summer from ages 12-21. In the 60s & 70s, Ireland was pretty much cut off from the world (except in its response to the IRA). City, town or village you did what your father did when you grew up, raised a passel of kids, spent an equal amount of time with pub & church activities and the whole town came to see you off when they planted you. Saints preserve us.

They lived on fat - watched every breakfast as they fried up a side of bacon, cooked their eggs in the grease, then poured the pan grease over their spuds - to keep the wet from reaching their bones (but there were as few fat Irishmen as there was many fat Irish-Americans), but there was one element entirely absent from their lives. Stress. An utter lack of mobility, well-defined roles within family & community and the freedom to punch anybody they pleased and have it forgiven by Holy Communion kept their lives free from what most easily kills people. Pretty sure a similar gestalt is at the base of why the northern Euro countries score so high on life scales now and it's likely we're going to have to re-learn those lessons during the drone economy.

ETA: America wants stress, needs stress, lives on stress alone, creates stress to give its citizens motive intent and the urge to buy things they don't need. That's why we cant compete with other countries on contentment, value of life

Edited by wikkidpissah
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10 minutes ago, TheFanatic said:

Since this will inevitably degenerate into an argument for socialistic policies be adopted in the US because Finland (and other Nordic countries are socialistic), let's get it straight that Finland and the rest of the Nordic countries are not socialistic. And maybe, just maybe, we can keep this to a productive conversation instead of a PSF cesspool.  

I bet if a US politician wanted to adopt policies similar to Finland, you would hear the 'S'-word out of every Republican politicians mouth over and over and over again right up to the election, and then continue as long as any US politician was still advocating for Finland-like policies.  

a capitalistic society with high tax rates to pay for a large safety net sounds good to me.  

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Posted (edited)

they do drink a lot there too. 

 

but yeah- the Finns I know are all happy, smart, good people. and yeah... crackers, the lot of them.

I've been more aware of the country in terms of education- but it all ties together. here's one of many articles talking about what they do there. eta: different article from the smithsonian- a little more reputable than "big think" maybe.

Edited by El Floppo

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3 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

Easier said than done.

You would have to roll back history and find a way that the US was a dominant force in the world without all the Finns now being German.

You would have to change our culture where we value happiness over innovation and acquiring stuff.  Not sure you could put that genie back in the bottle now.

You would have to slow our population growth as Finland's is pretty stable.  

You would have to find a way to eliminate the ethnic diversity in the US.

 

Ethnic groups in Finland.

Finn 93.4%, Swede 5.6%, Russian 0.5%, Estonian 0.3%, Romani 0.1%, Sami 0.1% (2006)

You may want to go back and revisit Finland's role in WW2.

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I need to look in to their imagration policies. Have to imagine it's hard to just up and move there and become a citizen.

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6 hours ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Its much easier to run a country the size of Los Angeles than it is to run the entire US. 

We can’t even run LA

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3 minutes ago, Wrigley said:

We can’t even run LA

We can't even run the LA Lakers.

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If the argument is to

1) reduce the American population by 98%,

2) ensure that all the remaining population largely shares the same genetic background, cultural beliefs, social ethics, religious affiliation, common language, etc., and

3) back up the economy with significant natural resources and trade that affords that remaining population a certain degree of monetary protection regardless of their ability to individually contribute to the GDP,

 

then, yeah, I'm all for it. Let the culling begin!

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Not so fast,

https://www.euronews.com/2019/03/08/finland-s-prime-minister-juha-sipila-offers-government-s-resignation-over-failed-healthcar

The government of Finland collapsed Friday due to the rising cost of universal health care and the prime minister’s failure to enact reforms to the system.Prime Minister Juha Sipila and the rest of the cabinet resigned after the governing coalition failed to pass reforms in parliament to the country’s regional government and health services, the Wall Street Journal reports. Finland faces an aging population, with around 26 percent of its citizens expected to be over 65 by the year 2030, an increase of 5 percent from today.

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6 hours ago, kevzilla said:

Are we sure that's what makes people happy?

Anyway, this thread is getting spiked or moved to the PSF toot-sweet.

I think that uniformity eliminates a lot of stresses and fighting. That doesn't mean that diversity isn't better for a lot of other reasons, but I think it's at least fair to ask whether diversity decreases happiness.

We have a long history of humans that indicates that diversity creates friction. We can argue that we should overcome that and that it shouldn't, but I think that would ignore reality at this point as well.

I don't think that uniformity is the sole reason for these results at all, but I don't think it can be discounted either.

Frankly, I think our consumerism and lack of true community in general are bigger issues.

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33 minutes ago, Punxsutawney Phil said:

Not so fast,

https://www.euronews.com/2019/03/08/finland-s-prime-minister-juha-sipila-offers-government-s-resignation-over-failed-healthcar

The government of Finland collapsed Friday due to the rising cost of universal health care and the prime minister’s failure to enact reforms to the system.Prime Minister Juha Sipila and the rest of the cabinet resigned after the governing coalition failed to pass reforms in parliament to the country’s regional government and health services, the Wall Street Journal reports. Finland faces an aging population, with around 26 percent of its citizens expected to be over 65 by the year 2030, an increase of 5 percent from today.

The entire government resigning in the US might raise us up a few notches on the scoreboard. 

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13 minutes ago, The Big Guy said:

The entire government resigning in the US might raise us up a few notches on the scoreboard. 

At least they had the common decency to quit instead of just shutting down everyone else in the government while still keeping their own paycheck.

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9 hours ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Its much easier to run a country the size of Los Angeles than it is to run the entire US. 

This [/thread]

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Looks like Finland is 11% happier than we are. Kudos to them, but that’s not a ton

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35 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Looks like Finland is 11% happier than we are. Kudos to them, but that’s not a ton

it's the saunas 

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I read an article once that one of the reasons these socialist Scandinavian countries are so "happy" is because their expectations are so low (according to the same or related polling).

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, matuski said:

I am 12% Sami.

 

Guessing you eat green eggs and ham.

Edited by zamboni

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10 hours ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Its much easier to run a country the size of Los Angeles than it is to run the entire US. 

Why?

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I will say, this isn't how I expected the thread to go. I thought it might start some debate on how health care is run, taxes, cost of education, etc. I really didn't expect it to center on how many excuses we could come up with as to why the US simply can't even bother to consider some of the concepts.

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12 hours ago, msommer said:

The only thing I know about people from Finland is that they drink a lot and throw knives.

Not sure which leads to happiness....

 

10 hours ago, The General said:

They dominate that sport where you cross country ski for miles with periodic breaks to shoot a BB gun at metal plates. 

That looks really hard.

 

8 hours ago, El Floppo said:

they do drink a lot there too. 

So what we've learned, ignoring the ethnicity issue.

Drink, throw knives, ski and shoot things = happiness :)

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2 hours ago, zed2283 said:

I read an article once that one of the reasons these socialist Scandinavian countries are so "happy" is because their expectations are so low (according to the same or related polling).

Works for marriage!

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, DallasDMac said:

I will say, this isn't how I expected the thread to go. I thought it might start some debate on how health care is run, taxes, cost of education, etc. I really didn't expect it to center on how many excuses we could come up with as to why the US simply can't even bother to consider some of the concepts.

So you didn't post this in the FFA to create general discussion, you posted it with the specific intent of generating political discussion and are now upset that people aren't talking politics?

Seems like you posted it in the wrong forum then. Maybe delete and try again in the politics forum.

Edited by GroveDiesel
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4 hours ago, IC FBGCav said:

Why?

Do you think running General Motors is harder than running the laundry mat in the strip mall down the street?

It’s not that hard.

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The US has a higher GDP per capita than Finland, how does the number of people matter when the US still has more money per person. 

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2 minutes ago, huthut said:

The US has a higher GDP per capita than Finland, how does the number of people matter when the US still has more money per person. 

You think money = happy?

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4 minutes ago, kutta said:

You think money = happy?

No, but it can fund programs that make people happy such as not dying from preventable diseases and having maternity/paternity leave and state funded daycare for small children etc. 

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