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*** Official Pete Buttigieg Thread *** (1 Viewer)

krista4 said:
I'm one of the Bernie supporters from 2016 and caucused for him in Washington.   (And I supported Hillary once she was nominated.)  Based on policy positions so far, I'd be an Elizabeth Warren supporter right now were it not for my fear that she would lose (likability factor reminds me too much of Hillary).  So I lean the same way you do.  I completely understand people leaning the other way; it's a tough and close call.  If Bernie gets the nomination, I'd wholeheartedly support him again, but in the primary we have an embarrassment of riches this time.  
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Elizabeth Warren really does seem like a fantastic person. I've got some buddies that have been arguing with me passionately about her (and they are annoyed with Pete's rise in contrast).

With her, I just worry that her focus on so much policy isn't going to do anything to introduce voters to the wonderful person she really is. Honestly, I get the feeling she'll be out of the primary race before voters get a chance to. While voters could see a lot of Hillary similarities, it seems she could use her true working class background to reach working class voters in a way that Hillary never could (even if she tried). Warren almost seems like everything we kind of wish Hillary really was. She legitimately comes from modest roots, and has been fighting for working class people her entire life. And I think she's a lot more engaging than Hillary.

But I just can't see her current strategy working (even if it's "the right thing to do"). Now is not the time to be rolling out policy after policy. Kind of the old "people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care" adage. Now is the time to connect with voters. Once they believe in you as a person, that you have their best interest in mind, and think you are the right person to be making decisions, then you can start presenting specific policy. 

There's still time to reverse course, but she seems pretty bought in on this strategy. 

 
[scooter] said:
Trump never said he needed to be forgiven, either. But evangelical leaders tripped over themselves to proclaim that God forgave Trump anyway.

I'd like to see Pete confront Graham with the same question. "Am I not just as forgiven as Trump, even if I haven't asked for it?"
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I was taught that forgiveness required repentance and refraining from the behavior moving forward. Under Catholic practices his repentance does not seem genuine.  I believe some of the other iterations of Christianity (Who may not even consider Catholics Christian) have a different take.  Me, he seems comfortable and well centered.  I don't think he needs forgiveness as he does not perceive he has done any wrong.  I think those that condemn him for political expedience may want to seek forgiveness.

 
pollardsvision said:
There's too much money at stake in the evangelical world to go up against Graham or Falwell. 
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There’s some who have indirectly.  The church where I attend when I go is pastored by Andy Stanley - he had this tweet prior to the election - https://mobile.twitter.com/andystanley/status/788874541883879424?lang=en

Not outspoken on any level but gets a point across - he also had a sermon about refugees a couple of years back that was in direct opposition to Trump.  And this guy is a powerful voice among some evangelicals.

 
Immortal stand-up Bill Hicks would regularly skewer religious hypocrisy in a way that caused audience members to seek him out after the show.

"Hey, buddy, we're Christians and we don't like what you said!"

"Then forgive me"

 
A response to any nickname given by the 72 year old toddler in chief should be along the lines of "And some people question if I'm mature enough to run for president?"

 
Mayor Pete should respond that he is above such matters and will not dignify juvenile homophobia with a response but he will leave matters to the voters.

 
joffer said:
it’ll be the least clever nickname possible, I’m guessing “Little Petey”
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It'll be along these lines. Size is big in bullyspeak. Bootyjudge looks smallish and height has been a factor in Presidential politics, so i googled Mayor Pete's height. Couldn't find it listed anywhere (telling?), so i looked at the CNN thing w Anderson Cooper. Cooper is listed @ 5'10 and has a good 2-3 inches on da Bootyjudge. Again, that's Mike Dukakis country and i remember the debate handshake between he and GB41 set up the "little guy in a tank" commercial, so.....

 
Trump thinks it’s going to be Biden. Buttigieg would need to win some primaries next year and emerge as a real challenger before Trump acknowledges him. 

 
pollardsvision said:
Elizabeth Warren really does seem like a fantastic person. I've got some buddies that have been arguing with me passionately about her (and they are annoyed with Pete's rise in contrast).

With her, I just worry that her focus on so much policy isn't going to do anything to introduce voters to the wonderful person she really is. Honestly, I get the feeling she'll be out of the primary race before voters get a chance to. While voters could see a lot of Hillary similarities, it seems she could use her true working class background to reach working class voters in a way that Hillary never could (even if she tried). Warren almost seems like everything we kind of wish Hillary really was. She legitimately comes from modest roots, and has been fighting for working class people her entire life. And I think she's a lot more engaging than Hillary.

But I just can't see her current strategy working (even if it's "the right thing to do"). Now is not the time to be rolling out policy after policy. Kind of the old "people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care" adage. Now is the time to connect with voters. Once they believe in you as a person, that you have their best interest in mind, and think you are the right person to be making decisions, then you can start presenting specific policy. 

There's still time to reverse course, but she seems pretty bought in on this strategy. 
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This is an interesting, excellent post.  We’ll see how it shakes out, but I tend to think you’re right.  And that it’s a shame, as you point out.  I like her very much on both a policy and a personal level, but that comes from having followed her for a long time.  The man on the street probably needs to get to know her better on a personal level.

 
krista4 said:
This is an interesting, excellent post.  We’ll see how it shakes out, but I tend to think you’re right.  And that it’s a shame, as you point out.  I like her very much on both a policy and a personal level, but that comes from having followed her for a long time.  The man on the street probably needs to get to know her better on a personal level.
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Yeah, Pete's campaign is specifically making this a priority.  I discussed this with @NCCommish recently and I know (and fully understand) he hates it, but I think it's necessary.

 
Henry Ford said:
krista4 said:
This is an interesting, excellent post.  We’ll see how it shakes out, but I tend to think you’re right.  And that it’s a shame, as you point out.  I like her very much on both a policy and a personal level, but that comes from having followed her for a long time.  The man on the street probably needs to get to know her better on a personal level.
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Yeah, Pete's campaign is specifically making this a priority.  I discussed this with @NCCommish recently and I know (and fully understand) he hates it, but I think it's necessary.
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I'd be lying if I said I didn't get an instant crush on the mayor after he made that comment.  The person, their morality and understanding where they are coming from are the foundation policy is built on.  I've said for years that I would vote for someone I felt was coming from a genuine place of really wanting to do the right thing while disagreeing over almost all their policy positions over someone who I agreed with on every single policy issue yet thought was completely hollow as a person.  

We have to get back to basics IMO.

 
Its going to be interesting to see how the June and July debates are divided - will they put the main contenders all on one stage, or will they split them?

But, if Pete ends up on the same stage as Biden and/or Bernie, I'd like to see him make this point:

"Our generation did not vote to authorize the war in the middle east, but we provided the bulk of the forces.

Our generation did not deregulate the banking industry, nor authorize the bail out, but we paid the price

Our generation did not deregulate industries, accelerating climate change, but we are inheriting the problem.

Its time for our generation to stop relying on prior generations - they have done enough.  Its time for our generation to lead, and build the world we want to live in, and leave for our children."

 
Henry Ford said:
Yeah, Pete's campaign is specifically making this a priority.  I discussed this with @NCCommish recently and I know (and fully understand) he hates it, but I think it's necessary.
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I think his strategy is to not say much. And then to attack other people's policy positions while having only vague platitudes and amorphous positions of his own. Its dishonest.

 
NCCommish said:
I think his strategy is to not say much. And then to attack other people's policy positions while having only vague platitudes and amorphous positions of his own. Its dishonest.
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I think you're wrong.  And I look forward to finding out which one of us is correct.

 
krista4 said:
This is an interesting, excellent post.  We’ll see how it shakes out, but I tend to think you’re right.  And that it’s a shame, as you point out.  I like her very much on both a policy and a personal level, but that comes from having followed her for a long time.  The man on the street probably needs to get to know her better on a personal level.
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Won't do a bit of good. She's a nerd. She ran the most embarrassing major campaign i've ever seen against Scott Brown to get her Senate seat. I had just moved to MA and couldnt believe someone with her capacity could be so ridiculously bad. She has this zone where she gets caught between what she wants to say and what she thinks (or has been prompted to think) you want to hear which reduces her to blithering every time. I was expecting a boob of some kind to win DemNom and was hoping whoever that was would nominate Sen Warren for VP so she'd be grandmothered in as America's Ombudsperson, a Cheney for good. But now that there's a Bootyjudge on the scene, a wonk with a personality, Warren is utterly useless to Democratic national politics.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Its going to be interesting to see how the June and July debates are divided - will they put the main contenders all on one stage, or will they split them?

But, if Pete ends up on the same stage as Biden and/or Bernie, I'd like to see him make this point:

"Our generation did not vote to authorize the war in the middle east, but we provided the bulk of the forces.

Our generation did not deregulate the banking industry, nor authorize the bail out, but we paid the price

Our generation did not deregulate industries, accelerating climate change, but we are inheriting the problem.

Its time for our generation to stop relying on prior generations - they have done enough.  Its time for our generation to lead, and build the world we want to live in, and leave for our children."
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Ok, it's time but how?  

 
NCCommish said:
I think his strategy is to not say much. And then to attack other people's policy positions while having only vague platitudes and amorphous positions of his own. Its dishonest.
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You're the second Bernie guy to say this about Pete. It's obvious the Bernie camp has come up with something to criticize a threat with no weaknesses. It's easy to see the ones people are worried about.

 
NCCommish said:
I think his strategy is to not say much. And then to attack other people's policy positions while having only vague platitudes and amorphous positions of his own. Its dishonest.
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One of the refreshing things I think we've seen with Buttigieg is he doesn't come across as attacking at all.  I think if Joe could point to the embodiment of what he wants with "be excellent to each other" it would be Mayor Pete.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Its going to be interesting to see how the June and July debates are divided - will they put the main contenders all on one stage, or will they split them?
Click to expand...
Qualifying candidates are randomized between the two debates.

 
JuniorNB said:
You're the second Bernie guy to say this about Pete. It's obvious the Bernie camp has come up with something to criticize a threat with no weaknesses. It's easy to see the ones people are worried about.
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No the Bernie camp didn't send me an email or a memo. I call it like I see it. Maybe it's not that big a coincidence that supporters of a candidate who is heavily policy oriented would expect some kind of policy positions from other candidates. And not appreciate candidates who say its dishonest to talk policy.

 
NCCommish said:
I think his strategy is to not say much. And then to attack other people's policy positions while having only vague platitudes and amorphous positions of his own. Its dishonest.
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I haven't seen him do any attacking, and don't see much reason to think he'll do much of that, relatively. 

On the other stuff, I agree. Unfortunately, the realities of winning a national election are still there. Sadly, I don't think it's possible for a completely honest or ever transparent politician to win the White House. 

When was the last time the White House was won by someone that wasn't, at least on some level, a bull####ter telling people what they want to hear? Or at least, very methodically, choosing their words trying not to get painted into a corner until they were sure that's the corner they wanted to get painted into. I'm sorry. Bernie and Warren are awesome, but I'm farily certain there isn't a possibility that either will ever win the White House.

I don't expect the reality of national US politics to change any time soon. Given that reality, I'll take Pete being a little vague at this point. I think he's a good, thoughtful human being that will do the best he can. Unfortunately, given the reality of the situation, probably not accomplish much of what we'd all like to see. But at least we'll have a decent human being in the White House doing the best he can.

Progress isn't always as progressive as we'd like it to be.

 
AAABatteries said:
One of the refreshing things I think we've seen with Buttigieg is he doesn't come across as attacking at all.  I think if Joe could point to the embodiment of what he wants with "be excellent to each other" it would be Mayor Pete.
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You mean except him saying Bernie can't beat Trump contrary to all polling.

Kinda rich Mr. Mayor after participating in the Bernie problem meetings.  I see many red flags.  Is he a corporatist?

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Qualifying candidates are randomized between the two debates.
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Per 538 - here are the mechanics:

With the first two debates capped at 20 slots each, the stage is quickly filling up. The DNC plans to split up each debate over two consecutive nights to accommodate up to 10 candidates per night;

Its not an Adults and Kids Table like the GOP did - but who you are on the stage with matters, imo.

 
wikkidpissah said:
Won't do a bit of good. She's a nerd. She ran the most embarrassing major campaign i've ever seen against Scott Brown to get her Senate seat. I had just moved to MA and couldnt believe someone with her capacity could be so ridiculously bad. She has this zone where she gets caught between what she wants to say and what she thinks (or has been prompted to think) you want to hear which reduces her to blithering every time. I was expecting a boob of some kind to win DemNom and was hoping whoever that was would nominate Sen Warren for VP so she'd be grandmothered in as America's Ombudsperson, a Cheney for good. But now that there's a Bootyjudge on the scene, a wonk with a personality, Warren is utterly useless to Democratic national politics.
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I dunno.  As far as national politics go, I think she'd be great as Senate Majority Leader where she could get her wonk on.

 
IC FBGCav said:
You mean except him saying Bernie can't beat Trump contrary to all polling.

Kinda rich Mr. Mayor after participating in the Bernie problem meetings.  I see many red flags.  Is he a corporatist?
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Bernie is going to send you a sticker. Attack attack attack. Just the way he likes it.

 
JuniorNB said:
Too obvious. He won't be able to explain it away.  Probably Precious Pete. Or something along those lines. Taking a shot at his manhood, but in a way where he can just play dumb.
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Effete Pete?  The problem with that of course is that he served in a combat zone so he is quite the opposite of that rhyming taunt.  Also, who would believe Trump has the word "effete" in his vocabulary.  No, in the end I don't think behaving like a four year old by Trump will derail a Rhodes scholar and a veteran.  I think Mayor Pete is going to be bullet proof here.  I sure hope so.  Frankly, like Nixon going to China there is maybe one thing, and only one thing that can be accomplished only by Trump, and that might be finally putting to rest gay slurs.  if he uses them he will do so in such a poor and boorish fashion against a relative paragon of virtue that it will embarrass and shame even other bigots to the point where they will distance themselves from the behavior forever, or such is my wish. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
Per 538 - here are the mechanics:

With the first two debates capped at 20 slots each, the stage is quickly filling up. The DNC plans to split up each debate over two consecutive nights to accommodate up to 10 candidates per night;

Its not an Adults and Kids Table like the GOP did - but who you are on the stage with matters, imo.
Click to expand...
Right but whose on stage each night is randomized.

 
NCCommish said:
Right but whose on stage each night is randomized.
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It’s the fairest way to do it. It’s still going to be very unsatisfactory in a lot of ways though. 

At this point I want to hear from:

Biden 

Buttigieg

Harris 

Warren 

Sanders 

I hate to say it, but the other people up there are wasting our time. 

 
pollardsvision said:
I haven't seen him do any attacking, and don't see much reason to think he'll do much of that, relatively. 

On the other stuff, I agree. Unfortunately, the realities of winning a national election are still there. Sadly, I don't think it's possible for a completely honest or ever transparent politician to win the White House. 

When was the last time the White House was won by someone that wasn't, at least on some level, a bull####ter telling people what they want to hear? Or at least, very methodically, choosing their words trying not to get painted into a corner until they were sure that's the corner they wanted to get painted into. I'm sorry. Bernie and Warren are awesome, but I'm farily certain there isn't a possibility that either will ever win the White House.

I don't expect the reality of national US politics to change any time soon. Given that reality, I'll take Pete being a little vague at this point. I think he's a good, thoughtful human being that will do the best he can. Unfortunately, given the reality of the situation, probably not accomplish much of what we'd all like to see. But at least we'll have a decent human being in the White House doing the best he can.

Progress isn't always as progressive as we'd like it to be.
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He started out saying talking policy was dishonest. He has lumped Bernie supporters in with Trump supporters and the guy that got killed in the only statewide race he's ever run questioned Bernie's electability. 

 
timschochet said:
It’s the fairest way to do it. It’s still going to be very unsatisfactory in a lot of ways though. 

At this point I want to hear from:

Biden 

Buttigieg

Harris 

Warren 

Sanders 

I hate to say it, but the other people up there are wasting our time. 
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I don't think bringing new ideas into the mainstream is a waste of time. I want to see Yang on the stage. 

 
NCCommish said:
I don't think bringing new ideas into the mainstream is a waste of time. I want to see Yang on the stage. 
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That’s a good point. Wouldn’t mind hearing from him. But I haven’t heard any new ideas from Klobuchar or Booker. I like them but they’re not original thinkers and they don’t have a shot at this point. 

But the person I really don’t want to hear from is Tulsi Gabbard. Nothing against her, but she’s a person with no chance at the nomination who has some very controversial views. So I could see her dominating several minutes of debate as everybody else tries to argue with her POV, and that really would be a waste of time. 

 
timschochet said:
That’s a good point. Wouldn’t mind hearing from him. But I haven’t heard any new ideas from Klobuchar or Booker. I like them but they’re not original thinkers and they don’t have a shot at this point. 

But the person I really don’t want to hear from is Tulsi Gabbard. Nothing against her, but she’s a person with no chance at the nomination who has some very controversial views. So I could see her dominating several minutes of debate as everybody else tries to argue with her POV, and that really would be a waste of time. 
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I don't mind Tulsi getting some time. Which of her views do you consider so controversial?

 
IC FBGCav said:
You mean except him saying Bernie can't beat Trump contrary to all polling.

Kinda rich Mr. Mayor after participating in the Bernie problem meetings.  I see many red flags.  Is he a corporatist?
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No clue on being a corporatist but I don’t consider that an attack per se saying Bernie can’t win - it’s a very common sentiment.  Obviously, I disagree.

 
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