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*** Official Pete Buttigieg Thread *** (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sinn Fein
- Start date
ren hoek
Footballguy
I'm suggesting that Buttigieg should have paid attention to his constituents and actually done something about it.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
It was a little odd that CNN gave almost full coverage to a small city town hall on a Sunday afternoon. I felt kind of bad for Buttigieg, it's almost an intractable problem. Coming from a city with longstanding - and I mean a century plus - of corruption and civil rights problems, it looked almost absurd seeing a mayor give such pained attention to a single police shooting. He was really in an almost impossible situation and he said so, some people would not be placated and that was understandable considering the past tragedies. And I admittedly don't understand the facts of the case, camera was supposed to be on or not, what difference does it make? I understand why that would make a difference of course but the same shooting could have happened in 1979 or 1999. As I understand it the demand now is that the city identify racists on the police force and root them out. Sure, seems simple.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Pete Buttigieg was not his supervising officer, nor in internal affairs. Nor the chief of police.
It’s okay to just say someone didn’t fix something or didn’t do it right. Or failed. You don’t have to ascribe active malevolence to them.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
From the 2008 report? Is this like those Trump supporters who want to know why Obama was golfing instead of in the White House during Katrina?
ren hoek
Footballguy
"I been here all my life. And y'all ain't done a damn thing about me or my son, or none of these people out here. It's time for you to do something. If you can't do it, step your ### down. Cause I'm tired of talking about it, and I'm tired of hearing your lies."
-mother of slain man Eric Logan
-mother of slain man Eric Logan
There was a large increase in police force diversity between 1987 and 2013. I'm not sure what's happened nationally since then. Why has the South Bend PD had a decrease in black officers under Mayor Pete?
timschochet
Footballguy
What does “do something” mean?
I understand the mother being emotional and perhaps irrational. I’m sure I would be too if I lost one of my kids; I don’t blame her at all. But as for the rest of the people there...
My biggest complaint with the Black Lives Matter movement, and with Colin Kaepernick’s protest, was that they also called for the same “solution”: do something! But when specifics were asked for they had none to offer. BLM and Kaepernick and these good people in South Bend all raise legitimate problems that we need to address as a society: the treatment of black youths by police remains a real issue. But “do something” is never a satisfactory answer, it’s just a new way to point fingers.
I understand the mother being emotional and perhaps irrational. I’m sure I would be too if I lost one of my kids; I don’t blame her at all. But as for the rest of the people there...
My biggest complaint with the Black Lives Matter movement, and with Colin Kaepernick’s protest, was that they also called for the same “solution”: do something! But when specifics were asked for they had none to offer. BLM and Kaepernick and these good people in South Bend all raise legitimate problems that we need to address as a society: the treatment of black youths by police remains a real issue. But “do something” is never a satisfactory answer, it’s just a new way to point fingers.
timschochet
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Sometimes being a leader means that you have to get knocked around a little and take some criticism, even when it's not really warranted and even when the person doing the criticizing isn't rational or doesn't have all the facts. Buttigieg handled this situation about as well as he could have.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Who hires and fires police chiefs Henry? He fired the previous police chief after the tape recording incident. He wasn't powerless to do anything about the police department that answers to him.
From his entire career as mayor. None of this should be a mystery to him. He's not an idiot.
Obviously, I don't believe there's any reason to believe Buttigieg is racist. But this betrays the perception of him as the thoughtful 'data analyst' uniter who just does what's empirically best- it paints him as a person that runs cover for entrenched power.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Why would the ability to hire and fire a police chief mean he knows about what's being complained of with individual officers? Especially when the complaint was filed before he was elected. That's what I'm trying to figure out. Do you think the mayor gets a constant update on every officer anyone's ever complained about?
ren hoek
Footballguy
Mayor Pete Buttigieg’s controversial claim that a secret report exonerated his chief of police in an incident with racial undertones appears to be contradicted by the report itself, according to a leaked excerpt obtained by The Young Turks.
The report was compiled in 2013 by an Indiana State Police (ISP) investigator, after a black civilian alleged that South Bend’s police chief failed to back up a black lieutenant during an altercation outside a community center.
Buttigieg refused to release the ISP report, but told city officials in a letter that witness accounts in the report “make clear” that then-Chief Ron Teachman, who is white, did not violate requirements for backing up fellow officers and that Teachman “has my full confidence.”
However, according to the leaked excerpt, which includes a summary of the report’s findings, none of the witnesses corroborate Teachman’s account. Multiple witnesses directly challenge Teachman’s claims. In some passages witnesses say explicitly that Teachman failed to back up his fellow officer, Lt. David Newton.
Buttigieg did not disclose that the ISP also investigated Teachman’s conduct after the incident, a fact that has not been public knowledge until now. Specifically, the report addresses conduct that may have violated other police guidelines, raising the possibility that Teachman tried to intimidate Newton and influence his account of the incident.
Asked about the secret report’s findings, Buttigieg campaign Press Secretary Chris Meagher told TYT that the letter Buttigieg sent to city officials “adequately covers the mayor’s position on this issue.” (Teachman no longer works for the city. Messages left for him by phone and email were not returned.)
Newton, now chief investigator for the county prosecutor, told TYT that, “In my opinion Buttigieg killed the report because it made Teachman look bad.”
Newton confirmed the report’s implication that he felt pressured to change his story. “Teachman tried to steer me to frame what happened,” he told TYT. “I was ruined… just because I wouldn’t lie and play ball.”
Members of the city’s legislative body, the Common Council, wanted to see the ISP report for themselves, but Buttigieg refused, citing the law and personnel policies.
https://tyt.com/stories/4vZLCHuQrYE4uKagy0oyMA/4f2wiNPHm49hitJZKdqZyf
The report was compiled in 2013 by an Indiana State Police (ISP) investigator, after a black civilian alleged that South Bend’s police chief failed to back up a black lieutenant during an altercation outside a community center.
Buttigieg refused to release the ISP report, but told city officials in a letter that witness accounts in the report “make clear” that then-Chief Ron Teachman, who is white, did not violate requirements for backing up fellow officers and that Teachman “has my full confidence.”
However, according to the leaked excerpt, which includes a summary of the report’s findings, none of the witnesses corroborate Teachman’s account. Multiple witnesses directly challenge Teachman’s claims. In some passages witnesses say explicitly that Teachman failed to back up his fellow officer, Lt. David Newton.
Buttigieg did not disclose that the ISP also investigated Teachman’s conduct after the incident, a fact that has not been public knowledge until now. Specifically, the report addresses conduct that may have violated other police guidelines, raising the possibility that Teachman tried to intimidate Newton and influence his account of the incident.
Asked about the secret report’s findings, Buttigieg campaign Press Secretary Chris Meagher told TYT that the letter Buttigieg sent to city officials “adequately covers the mayor’s position on this issue.” (Teachman no longer works for the city. Messages left for him by phone and email were not returned.)
Newton, now chief investigator for the county prosecutor, told TYT that, “In my opinion Buttigieg killed the report because it made Teachman look bad.”
Newton confirmed the report’s implication that he felt pressured to change his story. “Teachman tried to steer me to frame what happened,” he told TYT. “I was ruined… just because I wouldn’t lie and play ball.”
Members of the city’s legislative body, the Common Council, wanted to see the ISP report for themselves, but Buttigieg refused, citing the law and personnel policies.
https://tyt.com/stories/4vZLCHuQrYE4uKagy0oyMA/4f2wiNPHm49hitJZKdqZyf
Henry Ford
Footballguy
It means fix the problem, which is a reasonable thing for people living through these events to be calling for. It's not a solution, but if people had solutions they'd probably be running for office - constituents have a right to feel safe and to be very angry when they don't. It's not as productive as a plan, but it's certainly understandable.
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I think a lot of the people that voted for Trump wanted him to “do something” too. This isn’t specific to one party or one side; it’s the essence of populism: an emotional urge for simplistic immediate responses to long term, nuanced and complicated problems.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Obviously Pete couldn't have fired any officers and couldn't decades or racial problems. However, it does not seem like the black community in his city fully trusts him. The "do something" would have been established better relationships with the black community instead of running for President. I mean he is the major of South Bend, what the hell is even he doing running for President? I like him, he is intelligent and well spoken but this is a leap.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
And it isn't new. There have been rumblings before this about how he couldn't name a single black supporter of his and that in general the black community is skeptical of him. I don't think the black community of South Bend expected him to have solved all their problems- their issues seems to be they don't trust him to even try to.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Here's footage of the protests which I think came after the town hall. It's worth watching the whole thing.
I'll give Pete and the police chief credit for showing up and addressing people directly. It's a phenomenally difficult position for anyone.
The most compelling individual in all this imo is Logan's brother. He's incredibly fair given the death of his brother and has some tough questions that don't get very good answers.
There's no question these things have been brought to the dept.'s and mayor office's attention over the years and these people felt like no one was listening. It's not just a blurb in a report from 2008. The public words appear to conflict with the private actions. That's a pretty charitable interpretation to say the least.
I'll give Pete and the police chief credit for showing up and addressing people directly. It's a phenomenally difficult position for anyone.
The most compelling individual in all this imo is Logan's brother. He's incredibly fair given the death of his brother and has some tough questions that don't get very good answers.
There's no question these things have been brought to the dept.'s and mayor office's attention over the years and these people felt like no one was listening. It's not just a blurb in a report from 2008. The public words appear to conflict with the private actions. That's a pretty charitable interpretation to say the least.
ren hoek
Footballguy
This isn't complicated Tim. A black man is dead and we are unsure why because a cop with a documented history of racism still had his job, and didn't do it right. It's not a referendum on populism.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I'll admit I don't understand the events behind all this, but apparently this guy Teachman claimed that he told his fellow officer Newton that he was using the bathroom and claimed that he was ok with that and he would handle the disturbance himself?
How does race enter this incident? It's weird, the claim is he didn't back up a fellow cop because he was black? It's demanded that Teachman should have been fired for this because it proved he was racist? This is some really thin stuff. Race/prejudice isn't even mentioned in the report.
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
mcintyre1
Footballguy
As an outside observer of all of this, I'm not really bothered by any of it. Racial issues in policing are not unique to South Bend and there's no accepted universal way to fix them that I'm aware of. I don't expect a young mayor to have figured that out and I don't penalize him for not having "done something" about it in more depth. I'm sure he had to deal with entrenched parties on all sides that would have made anything difficult to do. I think he's shown himself in a very good light to be receptive and willing to accept and properly deal with criticism of his work and policies, and honestly that's more important to me (especially given who's currently in the WH) than whether or not Pete managed to solve racist policing in South Bend, Indiana.
sho nuff
Footballguy
The buck should stop with him. From Politico:timschochet said:
"In 2014, during his first term in office, black officers made up more than 10 percent of the 253-person department. By last year, that figure had dwindled to 5 percent. Contrary to its national image as a white, working class, Roman Catholic town, South Bend is 40 percent nonwhite—26 percent black and 14 percent Hispanic. And yet its police force each year under Buttigieg has looked a little less like the city itself."
pollardsvision
Footballguy
This is certainly quite concerning. I was about to order my Pete yard sign, but based on what we've seen so far, it's hard to imagine his campaign recovering from this.
Pete may have very well done everything correctly here, but the optics are terrible. It makes it seem as he was in a little over his head. Understandable, as we're talking about a problem that very few localities have "fixed".
But the response had better be perfect, hopefully, with some evidence demonstrating he had something moving in the right direction on this. Because much of what's come out so far makes the opposite seem true. I'm not writing off the possibility that Pete will have a great response to this, he's obviously an exceptional guy.
His age/inexperience is his biggest hurdle, so it's hard to imagine him overcoming concerns, if they are legitimate, that he was anything other than an exemplary Mayor.
Pete may have very well done everything correctly here, but the optics are terrible. It makes it seem as he was in a little over his head. Understandable, as we're talking about a problem that very few localities have "fixed".
But the response had better be perfect, hopefully, with some evidence demonstrating he had something moving in the right direction on this. Because much of what's come out so far makes the opposite seem true. I'm not writing off the possibility that Pete will have a great response to this, he's obviously an exceptional guy.
His age/inexperience is his biggest hurdle, so it's hard to imagine him overcoming concerns, if they are legitimate, that he was anything other than an exemplary Mayor.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Yeah, reading this excerpt doesn't bother me, but I don't know that he recovers from this. Frankly, I don't think that's his biggest concern, which is what I like about his response. When he expressed that, though, it became a sound bite that may well sink any chance he has at the VP.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
The Young Turks and ren hoek have been unusual bedfellows.
I have not seen TYTs since the 2016 cycle, but my assumption is they are struggling to understand why Bernie has no shot at the nomination this cycle.
I could kind of see this becoming a bigger issue than perhaps it needed to be when the facts came out - White Cop, Black victim, no body-cam.
Its an unfortunate incident - and I think Buttigieg rightly has taken some heat - not necessarily for his response, but quite frankly, for the events leading up to the incident.
From a campaign's perspective - this is bad timing (as I said earlier in the thread, there is never good timing for an officer-involved-shooting). Buttigieg was starting to ramp-up again, and was (still is) ready to announce a big Q2 fundraising total. Now, I think you will see some of the big guns hold off for a bit. The silver lining for the campaign - this is still very far out from people actually paying attention. Pete can recover, but as with any controversy, he has to turn the page, and get the media focused on something new in his campaign.
As a white supporter - I admire the way Buttigieg has stood tall, and taken the hits - because he know its the right thing to do. His campaign sent two update emails though the process, and neither were asking for donations (i.e. no links to his fundraising platform). So, I think that was smart to keep the focus on the issue. I think he genuinely wants to make a difference here - but it does beg the question why some of these initiatives did not take place sooner. But, we move forward from here - and not dwell on moving backward. He has a talented coms team that should help him get back on track.
squistion
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
It may not be fair but singular problems can be huge for the candidates whom voters know little about especially when it's such a large field. It's easy to hear one bad thing and focus one's attention to another candidate.
I can see the following conversation happening:
"I think I like that Buttigieg guy."
"Well, the town that he is mayor of has a lot of problems with racist cops shooting minorities."
"Oh, then maybe I'll support..."
Klobuchar also has this problem:
"I think I like Amy Klobuchar."
"Well, she has anger control issues. She throws binders at people."
"Oh, then maybe I'll support..."
Sure - but think back to January/February - what was the consensus opinion of Elizabeth Warren? There were a lot of people who really disliked her - as in like as much as people hated Clinton.
But, she has worked hard, and really turned the page on her issues, and, right now, I think she is the likely nominee. Obviously we still have a long way to go - and she could do something that costs the nomination, or someone can make a better case for being the nominee. But, the point is, time heals all wounds - and most people are not paying attention to the election yet. There is still plenty of time for Mayor Pete to move past this - and even turn this into a positive.
As an aside - Klobuchar's problem is not that she has anger management issues - its that she has not done anything to stand out in the campaign and give people a reason to vote for her...
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Buttigieg puts a big fundraising number on the board: $24.8M They have over 400,000 donors, and $22M cash on hand
“@PeteButtigieg’s total for the most recent quarter dwarfs the $7.1 million that he raised in the first quarter of 2019 — which itself was an attention-grabbing figure that offered early evidence that his candidacy was catching on.”
“@PeteButtigieg’s total for the most recent quarter dwarfs the $7.1 million that he raised in the first quarter of 2019 — which itself was an attention-grabbing figure that offered early evidence that his candidacy was catching on.”
My wife mentioned over the weekend that she donated some money to his campaign. She said it almost like I'd be mad. I was kind of like
. That's cool. I like him too.But we both agreed that we hope some video doesn't come out with him doing some kind of horrible stuff that the world doesn't know yet.
We will see where these numbers fall - but I expect that only Biden will be in the same neighborhood. Sanders has a big fundraising machine - but I think they may fall a little short of that total. Harris had a huge surge post-debate, but I don't think she had a big push before that. I really don't know much about Warren's fund-raising efforts - so its possible that she puts up a big number also - given that her support has really grown during the 2nd quarter.
I do think Buttigieg was shooting for $25M+, but that momentum slowed with the police shooting, and aftermath, in South Bend. But, its also clear that the campaign wanted to be the first to release these numbers - just to get back in the news for positive reasons.
I do think Buttigieg was shooting for $25M+, but that momentum slowed with the police shooting, and aftermath, in South Bend. But, its also clear that the campaign wanted to be the first to release these numbers - just to get back in the news for positive reasons.
File this under: "Managing expectations"
Bernie's post-deadline email did not give a fundraising number, but noted:
"At some point in the next few days, we are going to release how much money we’ve raised and how many contributions make up that amount.
I think those numbers will make you very proud."
Hard to know what that means - but I assume it will be competitive with Buttigieg's numbers.
Bernie's post-deadline email did not give a fundraising number, but noted:
"At some point in the next few days, we are going to release how much money we’ve raised and how many contributions make up that amount.
I think those numbers will make you very proud."
Hard to know what that means - but I assume it will be competitive with Buttigieg's numbers.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
This new CNN poll (after debates) is terrible for Pete. Biden's down to 22% but Pete only has 4%. I don't think he has much of a chance any longer.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primaries/democratic/national/
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primaries/democratic/national/
ElectionBettingOdds has Buttigieg with a 10% chance of winning the nomination (not all that far off of Biden's 14.5%).
adonis
Footballguy
I like him about as much as I liked Obama in 2007. However, I think he has to play a near perfect game and get some breaks to go his way to have a shot.Maurile Tremblay said:
He has the supporter enthusiasm Biden lacks, a more moderate politics than Sanders, less identity politics than Harris, and less disruptive policy-wise than Warren. He’s young and offers a significant contrast to Trump on almost every level.
Its still early. I still think Biden falls bigly. I don’t see Sanders getting institutional support. So to me it’s Warren, Harris and Pete’s long game to win.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Still love Pete and the amount of money he has is impressive but:
latest polling still has him at zero percent among blacks. Zero percent. Even Williamson has better numbers. He can’t win with that.
latest polling still has him at zero percent among blacks. Zero percent. Even Williamson has better numbers. He can’t win with that.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
A New Call to Service
- Actual plan from Pete's web site
NYT article
Pete Buttigieg, who is running for the Democratic presidential nomination in part on his experience with national service as a Navy Reserve officer who deployed to Afghanistan, on Wednesday proposed a major expansion of voluntary public service programs that aims to attract 250,000 Americans in the near term and potentially grow to one million a year by 2026.
His plan calls for expanding existing national service organizations like AmeriCorps and the Peace Corps and also adding new ones focused on combating climate change, treating mental health and addiction, and providing caregiving for older people. The new programs would prioritize bringing volunteers into predominantly minority communities and rural areas.
In an interview, Mr. Buttigieg, the 37-year-old mayor of South Bend, Ind., noted that only a fraction of applicants to AmeriCorps and the Peace Corps are accepted every year for available positions. According to government data, the Peace Corps currently has about 7,300 volunteers and trainees, while AmeriCorps has about 75,000 members.
If elected, Mr. Buttigieg’s campaign said work on getting 250,000 Americans enrolled in these expanded programs would begin on his first day in office, an expansion which would be more than triple the size of those existing programs. A spokeswoman for his campaign said doing so would cost approximately $20 billion over 10 years.
Mr. Buttigieg said he would create a position on the National Security Council to manage these programs, and that officials would be flexible in addressing challenges as they arise, creating new corps as needed for priorities like resettling refugees or expanding broadband internet access in remote parts of the country.
For men and women who perform a year of service, Mr. Buttigieg’s proposal would credit that time toward student debt relief offered under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, which assists those who work for government or nonprofit organizations.
- Actual plan from Pete's web site
NYT article
Pete Buttigieg, who is running for the Democratic presidential nomination in part on his experience with national service as a Navy Reserve officer who deployed to Afghanistan, on Wednesday proposed a major expansion of voluntary public service programs that aims to attract 250,000 Americans in the near term and potentially grow to one million a year by 2026.
His plan calls for expanding existing national service organizations like AmeriCorps and the Peace Corps and also adding new ones focused on combating climate change, treating mental health and addiction, and providing caregiving for older people. The new programs would prioritize bringing volunteers into predominantly minority communities and rural areas.
In an interview, Mr. Buttigieg, the 37-year-old mayor of South Bend, Ind., noted that only a fraction of applicants to AmeriCorps and the Peace Corps are accepted every year for available positions. According to government data, the Peace Corps currently has about 7,300 volunteers and trainees, while AmeriCorps has about 75,000 members.
If elected, Mr. Buttigieg’s campaign said work on getting 250,000 Americans enrolled in these expanded programs would begin on his first day in office, an expansion which would be more than triple the size of those existing programs. A spokeswoman for his campaign said doing so would cost approximately $20 billion over 10 years.
Mr. Buttigieg said he would create a position on the National Security Council to manage these programs, and that officials would be flexible in addressing challenges as they arise, creating new corps as needed for priorities like resettling refugees or expanding broadband internet access in remote parts of the country.
For men and women who perform a year of service, Mr. Buttigieg’s proposal would credit that time toward student debt relief offered under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, which assists those who work for government or nonprofit organizations.
