What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

*** Official Pete Buttigieg Thread *** (1 Viewer)

Oh boy, it’s in my head and someone far more talented needs to make it happen:  cover of Sir Mix-A-Lot’s magnus opus to be “I like Pete Booty-Judge and I cannot lie!”  I think you could secure a solid majority of the 30-50 age group with just that song alone

 
My love for Buttigieg increases:

BUTTIGIEG on free college: Americans who have a college degree earn more than Americans who don't. As a progressive, I have a hard time getting my head around the idea a majority who earn less because they didn't go to college subsidize a minority who earn more because they did.
In theory we could have a tax system progressive enough where the majority wouldn't be subsidizing the higher earning minority.

 
Oh boy, it’s in my head and someone far more talented needs to make it happen:  cover of Sir Mix-A-Lot’s magnus opus to be “I like Pete Booty-Judge and I cannot lie!”  I think you could secure a solid majority of the 30-50 age group with just that song alone
It's Pete Buttigieg and he cannot lie!

Even Kamala lovers can't deny

That when a Dem walks with his husband Chase

Speaks eight languages in your face you get sprung

 
One could also say, "As a progressive, I have a hard time getting my head around the idea that the 10% who earn less because they didn't finish high school should subsidize the 90% who earn more because they finished." 

 
One could also say, "As a progressive, I have a hard time getting my head around the idea that the 10% who earn less because they didn't finish high school should subsidize the 90% who earn more because they finished." 
I think you're missing the importance of majority/minority in the discussion of subsidization.  

 
I think you're missing the importance of majority/minority in the discussion of subsidization.  
Perhaps I am.  Anyway, aren't we hoping a majority of future generations of Americans get a postsecondary education?

Edit to add:  I'm not a strong supporter of free college in the near future in the first place. I just am having trouble with his reasoning. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Pete Buttigieg‏Verified account @PeteButtigieg 9h9 hours ago

Join me in South Bend on April 14th for a special announcement:

Just a reminder that he is not officially running yet...

 
I had no idea that Mayor Pete was being criticized as "not gay enough" (or Kamala Harris as "not black enough").  Will we never learn?  NYT opinion piece by Frank Bruni today:  Mayor Pete Is Plenty Gay

How do Democrats properly vet their candidates for president without cannibalizing them? How do they rightly insist on sensitive and inclusive leaders while making allowances for past mistakes, present quirks, human messiness and the differences in the conversation and the culture now versus 10 or 20 or 40 years ago?

That’s emerging as a central challenge of the Democratic presidential primary. And it’s worrying me.

I’m worried because there was an actual mini-debate on the left recently over whether Pete Buttigieg is gay enough. Do his whiteness, upper-middle-class background and Harvard and Oxford degrees nullify his experience as a minority and undercut his status as a trailblazer? This question is out there, in both senses of that phrase.

I’m worried because it in some ways echoes an earlier question about whether Kamala Harris — whose father came from Jamaica, whose mother came from India and whose husband is white — is black enough.

And I’m worried because of what Joe Biden is going through — because of the intensity of the censure that he faced after the Nevada politician Lucy Flores’s allegation and because of the fixation on precisely what kind of apology he must issue.

Flores of course accused him of coming up behind her, touching her shoulders and kissing the back of her head: a gesture that’s inappropriate and demeaning. Biden says that he doesn’t recall the incident, from 2014. The media has given this breathless coverage.

I’ve written that I don’t think Biden, 76, should run, for many reasons, including that someone in politics as long as he has been carries too much baggage; that Democratic voters have generally preferred candidates significantly younger than he is; and that he mismanaged and failed miserably in his two prior presidential campaigns.

But I feel just as strongly that Democrats need to show some proportion, realism and reason as they assess and react to candidates (or, in Biden’s case, probable candidates). With Biden especially but with others as well, too many Democrats aren’t doing that.

It’s nonnegotiable that Democrats hold their presidential aspirants to high standards on issues of racial justice, gender equality and more. It’s crucial that the party nominate someone who can credibly represent its proudly diverse ranks. But it’s also important that the party not demand a degree of purity that nobody attains.

I’m not recommending the Republicans’ course in accepting and protecting Donald Trump, which was to bury principles so deep that they may never be exhumed. I’m saying that to turn the Democratic primary into a nonstop apology tour when the nominee will be going up against a president never expected to apologize for anything is a risky strategy. It obsesses over the flaws in candidates who have many strengths, defining them in terms of what they seek forgiveness for. It blurs the line between job interview and inquisition. Taken too far, it rips contenders to shreds before Trump even takes out his scissors.

As for the mini-debate about Buttigieg’s gayness, it arose principally from this column in Slate, which included the following paragraph:

“A marginalized sexual orientation can remain unspoken and unnoticed for as long as a queer person desires. A gay man who conforms to a critical mass of gendered expectations can move through life without his sexuality attending every interaction, even after he comes out. Buttigieg, for instance, would register on only the most finely tuned gaydar. Most people who are aware of his candidacy probably know he’s gay, but his every appearance doesn’t activate the ‘Hey, that’s that homosexual gentleman’ response in the average brain. That doesn’t mean he’s not gay enough — there’s really no such measure. It just means that he might not be up against quite the same hurdles that a gay candidate without such sturdy ties to straight culture would be.”

The author is asserting that Buttigieg, 37, the mayor of South Bend, Ind., doesn’t come across as particularly gay, meaning . . . what? That he lacks stereotypical mannerisms? That his voice isn’t high-pitched? I’m kind of floored, because I and other gay people around my age (54) or older spent most of our lives educating people about the bigotry and inaccuracy of those very stereotypes and trumpeting the message — the truth! — that gay people can be every bit as buttoned-down and strait-laced as, well, Pete Buttigieg! Now his divergence from those stereotypes is deemed remarkable and in need of dissection? Strange days indeed.

Also, I guarantee you that Buttigieg’s adherence to “a critical mass of gendered expectations” and failure to “activate” the homosexual-alert siren don’t mean that being gay has been incidental to his life and is incidental to his perspective. That he didn’t come out until he was 33 is all the proof you need that he wrestled privately with his sexual orientation and with fears about how the world would respond to it and to him.

And when I first met and interviewed him nearly three years ago, this is how he argued that Democrats should reclaim the word “freedom” from Republicans, who have tried to reserve it for their brand:

“You’re not free if you have crushing medical debt. You’re not free if you’re being treated differently because of who you are. What has really affected my personal freedom more: the fact that I don’t have the freedom to pollute a certain river, or the fact that for part of my adult life, I didn’t have the freedom to marry somebody I was in love with? We’re talking about deep, personal freedom.”

He sounds sufficiently gay to me. His powers of empathy seem plenty informed by his sexual orientation. And we need to stop making assumptions about how well someone can understand and address what minorities go through based on his or her looks or vocal inflections or anything of the sort. That’s the quintessence of prejudice. And it’s the antithesis of enlightenment.

 
Here’s where I fall on this:

Does he bang dudes exclusively? Yes?

Sounds pretty gay. 
Does he bang dudes at all?   seems pretty gay.

FFS the whole playing labels bs...are we trying to fill all the stereotypes for a real world house?  We must have an angry black man or woman, a really really gay guy with a lisp, a dumb hick...and a party guy white dude. 

 
I had no idea that Mayor Pete was being criticized as "not gay enough" (or Kamala Harris as "not black enough").  Will we never learn?  NYT opinion piece by Frank Bruni today:  Mayor Pete Is Plenty Gay
If the criticism were that Pete Buttitieg is not black enough and Kamala Harris is not gay enough, I could maybe see the point. But the reverse is just ridiculous. Harris is comfortably more black than the median politician.

(Frank Bruni is consistently awesome, by the way.)

 
Well now that he's raising money and up a bit in the polls the scrutiny starts. First up using the phrase All lives matter in a 2015 speech. It was in the context of a full speech and actually doesn't seem meant undermine to me. Some people still aren't happy about it and using this phrase at all was a big issue in the 2016 campaign. And this is just the beginning.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
My love for Buttigieg grows:

Buttigieg on free college: Americans who have a college degree earn more than Americans who don't. As a progressive, I have a hard time getting my head around the idea that a majority who earn less because they didn't go to college should subsidize a minority who earn more because they did.
But we already do. The US government used my tax dollars to spend over 50 billion in financing college educations for the last year I've seen numbers. That financing leaving many of those people in so much debt that for example they can't buy houses which non college educated carpenters build. Or cars that largely non college educated people build. So when we fund college maybe we need to look at the ripple effect on their entire economy and not just bumper sticker it. His 'progressive problem " is short sighted and kind of sounds like Hillary.

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
Yes. 2 years community college OR trade school is what I’d like to see in the near term. 
Time, long past time really, for a radical rethinking of how we educate.  We pay a fortune, and waste tremendous time and resources to certify and document our youth, but do we give them the tools for success, or do we pretend we did when they get a certificate which is paid for, but maybe not earned.  Colleges have increased costs many fold beyond inflation for 50 plus years now, but are they educating?  

We, of course, are the problem because we reward those who emerge from certification factories which have cache over those who may actually have skills.   

 
Time, long past time really, for a radical rethinking of how we educate.  We pay a fortune, and waste tremendous time and resources to certify and document our youth, but do we give them the tools for success, or do we pretend we did when they get a certificate which is paid for, but maybe not earned.  Colleges have increased costs many fold beyond inflation for 50 plus years now, but are they educating?  

We, of course, are the problem because we reward those who emerge from certification factories which have cache over those who may actually have skills.   
Yeah, I think this is correct. We're also at a weird point where it is somewhat hard to predict what skills will really be valuable/needed in the mid-long term economy. This has been true to some extent for a couple of decades, and I think it will accelerate and get worse before it gets better.

The stupid thing is that information, which higher education has been the gatekeeper of for centuries, has never been more freely available. The marginal cost of education should be going down, not up. Particularly when you consider that teachers themselves continue to be an underpaid, and under-valued resource. 

 
He's got no shot if he's who you guys pick. The anti gay will come out in droves to vote against him. You got at least a couple more decades before you can run and be openly gay.

 
Yeah, I think this is correct. We're also at a weird point where it is somewhat hard to predict what skills will really be valuable/needed in the mid-long term economy. This has been true to some extent for a couple of decades, and I think it will accelerate and get worse before it gets better.

The stupid thing is that information, which higher education has been the gatekeeper of for centuries, has never been more freely available. The marginal cost of education should be going down, not up. Particularly when you consider that teachers themselves continue to be an underpaid, and under-valued resource. 
Like the library card scene in Good Will Hunting.

 
He's got no shot if he's who you guys pick. The anti gay will come out in droves to vote against him. You got at least a couple more decades before you can run and be openly gay.
That’s the shallow attacks I’d expect too.  

Though several years ago I thought this country wouldn’t elect a black man with a muslim sounding name.  But we did.

 
He's got no shot if he's who you guys pick. The anti gay will come out in droves to vote against him. You got at least a couple more decades before you can run and be openly gay.
Sad to think that if you are right, it means that a lot of people would prefer a morally questionable (at best) man who admitted to sexually assaulting women to a seemingly morally straight man who happens to love another man.

(Yes, I get that for these people "morally straight" =/= "love another man".  That's the big problem, IMO.)

 
He's got no shot if he's who you guys pick. The anti gay will come out in droves to vote against him. You got at least a couple more decades before you can run and be openly gay.
What percentage of voters do you consider "anti-gay"?   What percentage of those "anti-gay"  would vote Trump over any Democratic candidate?

I think you're right that there are some voters that would be persuaded to vote for Trump or would just stay home instead of voting for another Democratic nominee.  I just don't think there are so many droves of them that he's unelectable. 

 
He's got no shot if he's who you guys pick. The anti gay will come out in droves to vote against him. You got at least a couple more decades before you can run and be openly gay.
I'm O.K. with a gay candidate as long as they don't do "gay things" during televised debates.  "Gay things" are icky and they disturb my world view.  He won''t be expressing his devotion to his partner, will he, because that would be awkward.

 
I'm O.K. with a gay candidate as long as they don't do "gay things" during televised debates.  "Gay things" are icky and they disturb my world view.  He won''t be expressing his devotion to his partner, will he, because that would be awkward.
Can't freak people out more than Trump and Ivanka can it? Now that is some icky behavior.

 
He's got no shot if he's who you guys pick. The anti gay will come out in droves to vote against him. You got at least a couple more decades before you can run and be openly gay.
Well he's not winning Wyoming but the states that are going to matter it wouldn't be a big enough issue.

Trump proved ANYONE can win now.

 
All about exposure. The more people come out the more people figure out it isn't what they've been told. And as mentioned anyone who won't vote for him because he's gay in the general wasnt voting Democrat anyway. Now in the primaries if its perceived as an electability issue that may become a problem. He needs to be sure to get in front of that.
There's no answer to this he can give. It won't be an issue.

That he's 37, is a Mayor from South Bend, and looks like the kid who delivered my pizza is his biggest issue IMO.

 
There's no answer to this he can give. It won't be an issue.

That he's 37, is a Mayor from South Bend, and looks like the kid who delivered my pizza is his biggest issue IMO.
I meant be sure to get that polling and others our to show that most people dont care.

 
He's got no shot if he's who you guys pick. The anti gay will come out in droves to vote against him. You got at least a couple more decades before you can run and be openly gay.
Hey we've already cleared the hurdled of electing a man who admitted to sexual assault and wishes he could have sex with his own daughter.  Pretty sure most of America would be OK with a competent gay candidate.  IMO, it says more about the people who would protest then it does the candidate.

 
I don't read Trump threads and ain't gonna start to answer my question. Is there polling to suggest that a Palin/Trump (46.1% last time) populist-type candidate can exceed 50% of the voting public? I mean, was the '16 election a perfect storm and '20 will lose even the novelty of that or is there more of that reactionary populace to tap? I'm asking if there even ARE anti-gay forces to rise up agin da Bootyjudge.

 
I don't read Trump threads and ain't gonna start to answer my question. Is there polling to suggest that a Palin/Trump (46.1% last time) populist-type candidate can exceed 50% of the voting public? I mean, was the '16 election a perfect storm and '20 will lose even the novelty of that or is there more of that reactionary populace to tap? I'm asking if there even ARE anti-gay forces to rise up agin da Bootyjudge.
I think that is a hard question to answer.

Certainly, there are polls that suggest a number of people would not vote for a gay candidate.  But, its hard to tell how that impacts a race.

First, you would have to identify how many people who were motivated to vote against a gay candidate.  Second, you would want to see how many people would be inclined to vote for a candidate - but then refuse because the candidate is gay.

My gut reaction is that there are very few people who would be motivated solely to vote against a gay candidate - i.e. most that oppose a gay candidate, oppose a (D) candidate, and would vote for the (R) candidate as normal.

I am less clear on how many people who would vote for a "straight" Buttigieg, will sit at home rather than vote for a gay Buttigieg.  Its a non-zero number, but I don't have any sense of how big it might be.  I would hope that there are other motivating issues at play here, if Buttigieg gets the nomination.  I think we are seeing a number of gay candidates win local elections, and a few state-wide elections.  So, I think the fear of backlash on a national scale is limited when it comes to the overall Democratic voter base.

 
I think that is a hard question to answer.

Certainly, there are polls that suggest a number of people would not vote for a gay candidate.  But, its hard to tell how that impacts a race.

First, you would have to identify how many people who were motivated to vote against a gay candidate.  Second, you would want to see how many people would be inclined to vote for a candidate - but then refuse because the candidate is gay.

My gut reaction is that there are very few people who would be motivated solely to vote against a gay candidate - i.e. most that oppose a gay candidate, oppose a (D) candidate, and would vote for the (R) candidate as normal.

I am less clear on how many people who would vote for a "straight" Buttigieg, will sit at home rather than vote for a gay Buttigieg.  Its a non-zero number, but I don't have any sense of how big it might be.  I would hope that there are other motivating issues at play here, if Buttigieg gets the nomination.  I think we are seeing a number of gay candidates win local elections, and a few state-wide elections.  So, I think the fear of backlash on a national scale is limited when it comes to the overall Democratic voter base.
Let me ask this way, then, since you're much better informed than i. What is the maximum % of the popular vote you think a cowboy candidate of populist stripe can garner against a Democrat who hasn't entirely embarrassed themself with post-nom scandal or similar foolishness?

I don't think it's 50%

 
I actually haven’t listened to the recent links where religion is mentioned, but I gather he is a man of faith?  The mental gymnastics to oppose a man of faith for gay marriage in favor of an adulterous, sexual assaulting (accused) man of supposed faith should be entertaining.

 
Let me ask this way, then, since you're much better informed than i. What is the maximum % of the popular vote you think a cowboy candidate of populist stripe can garner against a Democrat who hasn't entirely embarrassed themself with post-nom scandal or similar foolishness?

I don't think it's 50%
Trump can't get 50% of the vote in the current climate.  

I am not saying things could not change drastically in the next 18 months - but I would be scared to think about how that might happen.  He can't get 50% support in a good economy, so I am thinking it would take a serious issue - like a war, or terrorist attack, or both - to move the needle.

But - this was the problem with analyzing the 2016 election - it was not about winning the popular vote - it was about putting a puzzle together to maximize Electoral College votes.  I think this is rapidly becoming untenable for Trump also - his unpopularity is rising in many of the states he needed to win in 2016.  But, the Dems need to be cognizant of how to win in 2020 - and learn from their mistakes in 2016.*

*I think the biggest mistake Clinton (and the DNC) made in 2016, was assuming they needed an Obama-Coalition to get elected.  Only Obama could win with an Obama-Coalition - everyone else has to figure out their own politics.  

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top