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*** Official Pete Buttigieg Thread ***

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Tuition and costs to attend Tisch at NYU is projected to be north of $80,000 next year.  I don't quite have it.  Anybody want to buy a kidney?

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38 minutes ago, John Blutarsky said:

Government funded health care sounds free to me. Why can’t he be more clear? Just like Bernie not telling us how he plans to pay for his free stuff.

Just like private health insurance is free to those who buy it.

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26 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

Killing someone seems like a crime to me..:shrug:

But abortion (absent certain circumstances) is not a crime.  And your original assertion had nothing to do with criminality. It had to do with sin. You said if a candidate supports abortion rights (i.e. opposes criminalizing abortion), the candidate is condoning sin. And therefore a Catholic who supports a candidate who opposes criminalizing abortion is not a true Catholic. 

Applying your logic, adultery is a sin.  So if a candidate supports adultery (i.e. opposes criminalizing adultery), the candidate is condoning sin. And therefore a Catholic who supports a candidate who opposes criminalizing adultery  is not a true Catholic.  

Edited by bigbottom
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17 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

This doesn't make any sense to me.  Sounds like you are justifying Buttigieg's atrocious stance on abortion just because you are a Democrat.

No idea what question you are asking.

It should make sense to you as you made the exact same distinction with respect to adultery. Adultery is a sin. But just because it’s a sin doesn’t mean it should be criminalized. 

Edited by bigbottom

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9 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

This doesn't make any sense to me.  Sounds like you are justifying Buttigieg's atrocious stance on abortion just because you are a Democrat.

No idea what question you are asking.

Ive been more of a Republican my whole life.  But I separate my faith from my government.  Abortion isnt for me...i abhor it.  But I understand why it should be kept legal.  Its not upon the government to push my faith on others.

I asked (twice now) where has Pete claimed he would offer free healthcare to illegal aliens.  I bolded your comment the first tome I replied to you.

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20 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

Killing someone seems like a crime to me..:shrug:

There's the rub.

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(also, of course, "killing someone" isn't always a crime or a sin)

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21 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Exactly 

Yes, but wouldn't you agree most undocumented immigrants wouldn't be able to afford a buy-in...thereby requiring a hefty government subsidy...therefore effectively it's free?

While undocumented immigrants would be allowed to buy in, it’s not clear how many would be able to afford the ACA's health plans without a government health subsidy.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/19/pete-buttigieg-2020-health-care-plan-1502581

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As an Atheist, I find it amusing that our laws are being debated because...sin. I do not recognize the Christian concept of "sin" and nor should our laws and government. Its right there in Amendment 1 - above the sacred Right to Bear Arms everyone goes on about. Its quite clear.

If something's a "sin" in your world, you're free to live accordingly. Otherwise, keep it out of my government. TIA.

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1 minute ago, PhantomJB said:

Yes, but wouldn't you agree most undocumented immigrants wouldn't be able to afford a buy-in...thereby requiring a hefty government subsidy...therefore effectively it's free?

While undocumented immigrants would be allowed to buy in, it’s not clear how many would be able to afford the ACA's health plans without a government health subsidy.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/19/pete-buttigieg-2020-health-care-plan-1502581

Still isnt free even with a slight subsidy.  And Id guess most would continue with emergency only care as they do now.

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Just now, sho nuff said:

Still isnt free even with a slight subsidy.  And Id guess most would continue with emergency only care as they do now.

Lol. Now you're talking like Pete with the "slight subsidy" thereby being able to claim it's not free. All good. 😉

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9 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

(also, of course, "killing someone" isn't always a crime or a sin)

One of the fundamental concepts in the criminal law of homicide is the “born alive” rule, which again, extends directly from centuries of ecclesiastical law developed by the Catholic Church. 

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56 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

But abortion (absent certain circumstances) is not a crime.  And your original assertion had nothing to do with criminality. It had to do with sin. You said if a candidate supports abortion rights (i.e. opposes criminalizing abortion), the candidate is condoning sin. And therefore a Catholic who supports a candidate who opposes criminalizing abortion is not a true Catholic. 

Applying your logic, adultery is a sin.  So if a candidate supports adultery (i.e. opposes criminalizing adultery), the candidate is condoning sin. And therefore a Catholic who supports a candidate who opposes criminalizing adultery  is not a true Catholic.  

I think it is a bad analogy.  Can you tell me a candidate who supports adultery?  

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Just now, Sneegor said:

I think it is a bad analogy.  Can you tell me a candidate who supports adultery?  

Donald Trump

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55 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Ive been more of a Republican my whole life.  But I separate my faith from my government.  Abortion isnt for me...i abhor it.  But I understand why it should be kept legal.  Its not upon the government to push my faith on others.

I asked (twice now) where has Pete claimed he would offer free healthcare to illegal aliens.  I bolded your comment the first tome I replied to you.

I don't have a link but wasn't he on stage during one of the first democratic debates when all candidates were asked to raise their hand if they oppose giving free health care to illegals?

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Just now, Sneegor said:

I don't have a link but wasn't he on stage during one of the first democratic debates when all candidates were asked to raise their hand if they oppose giving free health care to illegals?

That wasn't the question they raised their hands to.  Try again with what was actually said.

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52 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

As an Atheist, I find it amusing that our laws are being debated because...sin. I do not recognize the Christian concept of "sin" and nor should our laws and government. Its right there in Amendment 1 - above the sacred Right to Bear Arms everyone goes on about. Its quite clear.

If something's a "sin" in your world, you're free to live accordingly. Otherwise, keep it out of my government. TIA.

Murder is okay with you I guess.  

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1 minute ago, Sneegor said:

Wrong

He doesn't support adultery? Since when?

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19 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

I don't have a link but wasn't he on stage during one of the first democratic debates when all candidates were asked to raise their hand if they oppose giving free health care to illegals?

The question was if they'd be included, not paid for. The quote I gave you earlier is in response to that question.

ETA actual question: " Raise your hand if your  government plan would provide coverage for undocumented immigrants. "

Edited by Mystery Achiever
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Just now, Sneegor said:

Murder is okay with you I guess.  

I did not say I didn't recognize laws, just "sins". One has nothing to do with the other.

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1 minute ago, sho nuff said:

He doesn't support adultery? Since when?

Show me a link with him saying he supports adultery.

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2 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

Show me a link with him saying he supports adultery.

Would you accept that committing adultery means you support it, or are we going to continue to pollute the Pete thread with this back and forth about whether a man who's publicly cheated on every wife he's ever had "supports" adultery?

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Just now, mcintyre1 said:

Would you accept that committing adultery means you support it, or are we going to continue to pollute the Pete thread with this back and forth about whether a man who's publicly cheated on every wife he's ever had "supports" adultery?

No I won't accept that.  More importantly, I care about what happens going forward and Buttigieg saying he is for abortion is a no go for me.

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2 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

Show me a link with him saying he supports adultery.

Well, he has publicly bragged on the radio how he had Marla Maples (his mistress at the time) at a ski resort at the same time he had Ivana (his first wife) there.  I’ve never heard him publicly disavow his infidelity. 
 

And, of corse, we only need to go into that if you are so credulous as to believe he paid off Karen McDougal and Stormy Daniels because he didn’t sleep with them. 

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1 minute ago, Sneegor said:

No I won't accept that.  More importantly, I care about what happens going forward and Buttigieg saying he is for abortion is a no go for me.

Cool. 😐

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11 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

Show me a link with him saying he supports adultery.

He has to say it?  How about the multiple times he has committed adultery?  Its not really some secret.

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9 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

Show me a link with him saying he supports adultery.

I believe requesting pictures of the presidential junk, the first penis, Donald's sausage link, is discouraged. 

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1 minute ago, sho nuff said:

He has to say it?  How about the multiple times he has committed adultery?  Its not really some secret.

Using your words, try again with a link showing he says he supports adultery 

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2 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

I believe requesting pictures of the presidential junk, the first penis, Donald's sausage link, is discouraged. 

Is that why Anthony Weiner never ran for President?

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5 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

I believe requesting pictures of the presidential junk, the first penis, Donald's sausage link, is discouraged. 

Unless it's bifurcated. 

That'd be educational. 

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Just now, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Unless it's bifurcated. 

That'd be educational. 

A couple of those guys are going to be out here this weekend.  One I have not seen since that night.

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Just now, Ditkaless Wonders said:

A couple of those guys are going to be out here this weekend.  One I have not seen since that night.

Lemme know how they're hanging. 👍

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10 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

Using your words, try again with a link showing he says he supports adultery 

I never claimed he said he supports it...so you are asking me to provide a link to something I did not assert. 
But logic dictates he does guven he has engaged in it multiple times.

None of which has anything to do with Pete Buttigieg 

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44 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

I think it is a bad analogy.  Can you tell me a candidate who supports adultery?  

I think every candidate opposes criminalizing adultery.  Therefore, by your logic, every candidate is condoning sin.  Therefore, if a Catholic supports any candidate, they are not a true Catholic.

In other words, the reason you think it's a bad analogy is because it reveals the underlying flaw in your logic.

Let me put it another way that might make sense to you.  A candidate may believe that abortion (or adultery) is a sin, and not support the practice of abortion (or adultery).  But they may also believe that abortion (or adultery) should not be criminalized, even though it is sinful.  If a Catholic supports a candidate who believes that abortion (or adultery) is a sin, but nevertheless doesn't think abortion (or adultery) should be criminalized, I don't think that says much about whether the Catholic is a true Catholic or not.

Edited by bigbottom
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39 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

No I won't accept that.  More importantly, I care about what happens going forward and Buttigieg saying he is for abortion is a no go for me.

And that's a perfectly acceptable position for you.  But your stated logic for claiming that Catholics who support Pete can't be true Catholics is inherently flawed.

Edited by bigbottom

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46 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

No I won't accept that.  More importantly, I care about what happens going forward and Buttigieg saying he is for abortion is a no go for me.

Show me a link with him saying he supports abortion.

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18 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

I think every candidate opposes criminalizing adultery.  Therefore, by your logic, every candidate is condoning sin.  Therefore, if a Catholic supports any candidate, they are not a true Catholic.

In other words, the reason you think it's a bad analogy is because it reveals the underlying flaw in your logic.

Let me put it another way that might make sense to you.  A candidate may believe that abortion (or adultery) is a sin, and not support the practice of abortion (or adultery).  But they may also believe that abortion (or adultery) should not be criminalized, even though it is sinful.  If a Catholic supports a candidate who believes that abortion (or adultery) is a sin, but nevertheless doesn't think abortion (or adultery) should be criminalized, I don't think that says much about whether the Catholic is a true Catholic or not.

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar and unto God that which is God's. 

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@Sneegor, fwiw, I’m Catholic and I find Pete’s abortion stance abhorrent. That pretty much goes, with slight degrees of difference, for all the Dem nominees. They’re all pretty much beholden to the far far left in the primary, especially the ghouls at NARAL who I think rather perversely revel in the entire idea of abortion. Bernie, for one, has nearly gotten me to the point of not supporting him in the general since he told Pro-Life Dems this past weekend to GTFO.

Buuuuutttttt, here’s the thing. Ultimately, what do I want as a Catholic of good conscience? Fewer abortions. After 30+ years of constant deliberation on this, the Dems social programs will get that. Child care, safety nets, and paid time off will help women better keep their pregnancies. I truly believe that and it does bear out in the stats. I want fewer abortions period and a Republicans policies make that harder and they are crueler right now.

....And that doesn’t even take into account our Catholic duty to care for the poor and, IMO, the horrible injustice of the border. Listen to the Pope. 😄

Edited by Hugh Jass
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9 minutes ago, Gopher State said:

You can be better then this.  Comments like this have nothing to do with Pete. TIA

I love message board Inception.

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1 hour ago, bigbottom said:

I think every candidate opposes criminalizing adultery.  Therefore, by your logic, every candidate is condoning sin.  Therefore, if a Catholic supports any candidate, they are not a true Catholic.

In other words, the reason you think it's a bad analogy is because it reveals the underlying flaw in your logic.

Let me put it another way that might make sense to you.  A candidate may believe that abortion (or adultery) is a sin, and not support the practice of abortion (or adultery).  But they may also believe that abortion (or adultery) should not be criminalized, even though it is sinful.  If a Catholic supports a candidate who believes that abortion (or adultery) is a sin, but nevertheless doesn't think abortion (or adultery) should be criminalized, I don't think that says much about whether the Catholic is a true Catholic or not.

No, I never once used the phrase criminalizing adultery.  I was repeating this from you.  It doesn't make any sense.  Sorry.

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1 hour ago, Dickies said:

How about this?  Not only is he married, he is trying to move on a married woman.

 

Donald was also a Democrat before.  I am talking about now since he is President.

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1 hour ago, bigbottom said:

And that's a perfectly acceptable position for you.  But your stated logic for claiming that Catholics who support Pete can't be true Catholics is inherently flawed.

Disagree.  No Catholic should support a candidate who believes in abortion.

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Should they support a guy that regularly blows through commandments 6-10 like Kleenex? 

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5 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

Donald was also a Democrat before.  I am talking about now since he is President.

How about paying hush money to a porn star to cover up his adultery while his wife was pregnant?  I don't recall him asking for forgiveness.

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