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*** Official Pete Buttigieg Thread *** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sinn Fein
- Start date
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
Take 10 minutes and listen to this interview
He talks about faith briefly at the end.
I dismissed this guy as a joke before hearing anything. Have heard a few interviews and think he’s going to be a great addition to this process. Really exciting candidate.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Agree. My guess is a wag-the-dog war, Vlad helping him light up Venezuela. Don't know why the people who are saying he won't leave the White House even if he loses in '20 haven't brought up this much more traditional authoritarian tactic. /hijack
The General
Footballguy
She’d have you in a reverse hammer lock submission hold (that may be a WWF move) in 10 seconds
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Being from Kansas would she be dressed like Dorothy, but with an edge to her?She’d have you in a reverse hammer lock submission hold (that may be a WWF move) in 10 seconds
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That one guy
Footballguy
I mean, yeah, but that sounds inviting and I’d be quite open to the prospectShe’d have you in a reverse hammer lock submission hold (that may be a WWF move) in 10 seconds
The General
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
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NCCommish
Footballguy
You really think evangelicals won't turn out to vote against a gay guy. I mean they're cool with serially divorced philanderers but gay that's a bridge too far
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
i dont have the data, but my impression is that those people have been motivated all along and i dont believe the reactionary right or "populist" vote can much exceed the 46% Trump got with a non-traditional candidate atop the Republican ticket
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I actually kind of think him being gay might even help with swing voters and turnout? People love doing incredibly simple things that require zero effort that help them convince themselves they're not bigots. Like this guy.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
well, the other factor is that Americans of all political stripes ended up embracing/allowing/enduring the gay marriage push because the all the coming-outs attached to it caused a LOT families to soften their anti-gay activism even if they were still against it theoretically, in deference to Brother Blake, Sister Daphne and Callme Caitlyn. and if there's anyone that America would want Cousin Dale bringing to the reunion, it's da Bootyjudge (who a you ta judge?!).
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krista4
Footballguy
I’m of a similar impression. It’s a small sample size, but the evangelicals I know are highly motivated to get out and vote against any Democrat right now, and nominating a gay man would fit with their belief that Dems literally seek to destroy the USA. I’m still befuddled as to how they think Trump represents the core values they want to protect, but they’re all in on him anyway.
Again, just anecdotal experience, though.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I, for one, am looking forward to game night in the White House:
https://twitter.com/PeteButtigieg/status/1114310171818450944
https://twitter.com/PeteButtigieg/status/1114310171818450944
That one guy
Footballguy
This may be an incorrect or unfair assessment of history, but does Pete’s sudden rise resemble Bill Clinton more than Obama? From my memory, Bill’s appeal was his seemingly down-home, sit-down-have-a-beer-with, relatable guy, while Obama had more of that historical moment vibe with his being black (this is the potentially unfair part, because I’m not trying to downplay his successes or achievements by claiming this to be the main reason he won, but certainly a big appeal). Mayor Pete has one of the most approachable demeanor I’ve seen in a politician
Interesting question - but I guess I would say its neither.
If memory serves, Obama shot to fame at the 2004 DNC convention, and then built his brand from there. He was a powerful orator. Buttigieg does not have that defining moment, but he has been on an upward trajectory (albeit under the radar) for a few years now. I don't know if Buttigieg can give a rousing speech yet.
Bubba was a very different kind of "personable" in 1992 than Mayor Pete is now. Clinton was a larger-than-life personality in any setting, Clinton could talk to anyone, but you were very aware where the light was shining - whereas Buttigieg strikes me as a much more "everyman" who can sit and strike up a conversation with anyone from any walk of life - and make the conversation about them. So, similar, yet very different.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
If you're looking for trajectories, look no further than Mike Dukakis - technocrat, commoner, smartest guy in the room. Without Lee Atwater, the Bush dynasty would never have begun
ETA: They'll even have Joe Biden in common...
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Q41 If the candidates for President next time were Democrat Pete Buttigieg and Republican Donald Trump, who would you vote for?
Pete Buttigieg 45%
Donald Trump 41%
Not sure 14%
(the other "major" candidates all polled better here - but I'd say this is a pretty strong showing for someone most have never heard of...)
https://www.publicpolicypolling.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/PPP_Release_National_40119.pdf
Public Policy Polling gets a "B" rating from 538
Pete Buttigieg 45%
Donald Trump 41%
Not sure 14%
(the other "major" candidates all polled better here - but I'd say this is a pretty strong showing for someone most have never heard of...)
https://www.publicpolicypolling.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/PPP_Release_National_40119.pdf
Public Policy Polling gets a "B" rating from 538
Sure.
But, I think it still speaks well of Buttigieg that a national polling company is even asking the question - he still is only about the 6th or 7th most popular candidate.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
Why do “modesty” and “false modesty” appear to mean the same thing to Buttigieg?
I think it’s because false modesty is a concept Buttigieg would find almost impossible to grasp. The idea of “false modesty” requires you to be a little cynical about the world, to believe that there is a class of people out there who seem unpresuming but are actually shrewdly calculating. But Buttigieg didn’t notice any of this even when he was at Harvard, the global capital of false modesty. (See every admissions essay about one’s commitment to community service written by a future management consultant.) If you don’t notice the Machiavellians at McKinsey, you’re probably one of them.
Buttigieg might not understand false modesty, but we need to, because otherwise we might think every politician who pulls the “Aw shucks, I’m just a down-home Indiana boy” routine is just genuinely unaware of their own achievements. We won’t see how manipulative it is when a mayor writes their memoir of their humble surprise that a consulting firm was “willing to give me an interview for a post-MBA job” as a newly-minted Rhodes Scholar. (Little old Rhodes Scholar me!) Or when they mention that they humbly chose McKinsey’s Chicago division, even though it was “not the most glamorous office in the Firm.” Or when they humbly say that they were “not great” at the piano, just “skilled enough to play Rachmaninoff’s C-sharp Minor Prelude in competitions” and receive honorable mentions. Or when they casually drop mention of what a humble surprise it was to them that they got a First at Oxford after only having received straight-As their entire life up until that point.
Why was false modesty the only phrase in the English language that Buttigieg is incapable of using correctly? Because he’s the person for whom the phrase was invented. False modesty does not come from what people like Curtis are doing, it comes from public officials who write long bestselling memoirs about their call to service.
//
But let me finish by reminding you why this matters. It matters because of the people Buttigieg doesn’t see, the people who aren’t in the index of his “beautiful” book with its “classic American success story” of “humility and tentativeness.” Read this recent Washington Post profile of Monica Diaz, who is 40 years old, went to college, has a full-time job, and is still having to live in a tent because the rent is too high and her pay is too low. Think about the people who have to launch GoFundMe campaigns for their insulin, and those like Shane Boyle who die when they can’t make their goal.
These things should make you ####### angry. You should not be able to stop thinking about them. Your hate should be pure and should burn white hot. If you find pothole locator apps more compelling than the the lives of people like Monica Diaz, then there is something wrong with you. Get out of politics. Take the shortest way home and stay there.
All About Pete
A review of Buttigieg's Shortest Way Home.
I think it’s because false modesty is a concept Buttigieg would find almost impossible to grasp. The idea of “false modesty” requires you to be a little cynical about the world, to believe that there is a class of people out there who seem unpresuming but are actually shrewdly calculating. But Buttigieg didn’t notice any of this even when he was at Harvard, the global capital of false modesty. (See every admissions essay about one’s commitment to community service written by a future management consultant.) If you don’t notice the Machiavellians at McKinsey, you’re probably one of them.
Buttigieg might not understand false modesty, but we need to, because otherwise we might think every politician who pulls the “Aw shucks, I’m just a down-home Indiana boy” routine is just genuinely unaware of their own achievements. We won’t see how manipulative it is when a mayor writes their memoir of their humble surprise that a consulting firm was “willing to give me an interview for a post-MBA job” as a newly-minted Rhodes Scholar. (Little old Rhodes Scholar me!) Or when they mention that they humbly chose McKinsey’s Chicago division, even though it was “not the most glamorous office in the Firm.” Or when they humbly say that they were “not great” at the piano, just “skilled enough to play Rachmaninoff’s C-sharp Minor Prelude in competitions” and receive honorable mentions. Or when they casually drop mention of what a humble surprise it was to them that they got a First at Oxford after only having received straight-As their entire life up until that point.
Why was false modesty the only phrase in the English language that Buttigieg is incapable of using correctly? Because he’s the person for whom the phrase was invented. False modesty does not come from what people like Curtis are doing, it comes from public officials who write long bestselling memoirs about their call to service.
//
But let me finish by reminding you why this matters. It matters because of the people Buttigieg doesn’t see, the people who aren’t in the index of his “beautiful” book with its “classic American success story” of “humility and tentativeness.” Read this recent Washington Post profile of Monica Diaz, who is 40 years old, went to college, has a full-time job, and is still having to live in a tent because the rent is too high and her pay is too low. Think about the people who have to launch GoFundMe campaigns for their insulin, and those like Shane Boyle who die when they can’t make their goal.
These things should make you ####### angry. You should not be able to stop thinking about them. Your hate should be pure and should burn white hot. If you find pothole locator apps more compelling than the the lives of people like Monica Diaz, then there is something wrong with you. Get out of politics. Take the shortest way home and stay there.
All About Pete
A review of Buttigieg's Shortest Way Home.
timschochet
Footballguy
I was extremely impressed. I agreed with everything he said. I can’t recall that from a politician before.
I cant see this guy winning the nomination but who knows?
ETA- ren hoek’s clear opposition doesn’t hurt.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
joffer
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
To be fair, Ren has shared hit pieces on multiple Democratic candidates.
joffer
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
“Hit pieces,” too good. I was impressed too. Greenwald linked to this interview a while back and I posted about how thoughtful and articulate I thought he was.
Then I read about the things he stands for and changed my mind.
-unflinching support for the apartheid state of Israel
-framing mass murdering wars of aggression as ‘mistaken’ ‘blunders,’ no real empathy or expression for millions of victims
-a blank slate, very little in the way of a discernible policy position.
I think there’s legitimate concern that he’s another empty suit.
Then I read about the things he stands for and changed my mind.
-unflinching support for the apartheid state of Israel
-framing mass murdering wars of aggression as ‘mistaken’ ‘blunders,’ no real empathy or expression for millions of victims
-a blank slate, very little in the way of a discernible policy position.
I think there’s legitimate concern that he’s another empty suit.
That one guy
Footballguy
Man, I’m a cynic to politicians and can’t stand the 2-party system through and through, but damn this is just goth-emo politics right here. “Everything sucks and no one is real! If you’re not angry at everything then you’re not paying attention!”
And I’m not telling you to quit believing what you believe, bemoaning those who you feel need bemoaning, and castigating the system as a whole, you do you. I just can’t look through the lense of perfection at things, it’s dim and makes everything look bad, even the stuff that’s not.
adonis
Footballguy
It's interesting this is seen as a bad thing.“Hit pieces,” too good. I was impressed too. Greenwald linked to this interview a while back and I posted about how thoughtful and articulate I thought he was.
Then I read about the things he stands for and changed my mind.
-unflinching support for the apartheid state of Israel
-framing mass murdering wars of aggression as ‘mistaken’ ‘blunders,’ no real empathy or expression for millions of victims
-a blank slate, very little in the way of a discernible policy position.
I think there’s legitimate concern that he’s another empty suit.
To me, it's an opportunity. Put someone in a position of authority who has a clear vision, the intelligence and analytical skills and experience to evaluate some of the proposals, and you may have someone who can get behind some creative and compelling data-based, policy-based, science-based, rational policies that aren't encumbered by decade-long historical voting trails on the issues.
Certainly could end up being a good thing.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Because he is leaving room for the agendas of those with whom he must do business to get the best possible thing done. It is a cubism upon both the parvenu candidate's traditional saying only enough to get attention and the modern candidate's unwillingness to say anything which might create negative yield from clickbait attention. He may be only playing public servant - that remains to be fully tested - but seems determined to learn what best he can do without appearing vulnerable nor committing himself before he has to do so. He may have no passion but for sense and it is just that which is exciting people because it's been so long since we've had someone in the spotlight oriented that way. It is the optimum stance of a problem-solver and the Bootyjudge (who a you ta judge?!) seeks to exude nothing so much as that which assures America it's still a possibility.
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NCCommish
Footballguy
Well I've read the article linked. I didn't think it was a hit piece. I thought it was actually pretty well laid out. But then I agree with the author. As soon as he said anyone talking policy was dishonest I was turned off. Like I said your policy positions or lack there of tell me everything I need to know about your philosophy. Dont try to kumbaya me that time is long gone.
Emerson Massachusetts Poll
Sanders - 26%
Biden - 23%
Warren - 14%
Buttigieg - 11%
O'Rourke - 8%
Harris - 7%
Sanders - 26%
Biden - 23%
Warren - 14%
Buttigieg - 11%
O'Rourke - 8%
Harris - 7%
I get the gist of this part. I think Pete has explained it well though. Take something like health care. It seems clear he would prefer making Medicare "available for all that want it". But he also doesn't rule out other options including a straight single-payer. There is a risk there in that he takes the backseat to Congress on legislation too often. Obama was certainly guilty of that.
I find him very genuine when he talks about his philosophy and broader views though.
Is Biden going to get in? He is waiting too long (again)Emerson Massachusetts Poll
Sanders - 26%
Biden - 23%
Warren - 14%
Buttigieg - 11%
O'Rourke - 8%
Harris - 7%
adonis
Footballguy
What does a policy position tell you about a candidate that's more than what a person's philosophy tells you?
Take healthcare as an example.
NCCommish
Footballguy
It tells me what you are willing to fight for. This right here this thing is what I think will make us a better country and I am going to the wall to get it.
That's what I want to know. That's what I care about. Been jerked around enough by the pols that want it both ways and this guy seems a lot like Obama in that way. To some any comparison to Obama is a positive but I'm not one of them.
adonis
Footballguy
I think it's interesting that you think written down policy means something at this point more than a philosophical stand.
The best it means to me is that one has a philosophy and one has taken the time and effort to extrapolate that philosophy into real policies. Ideally, we'd get feedback from experts on the policies to see whether the candidate listens to smart people and uses good data, or not.
But once the policy is crafted at this stage, it's basically worthless beyond showing folks that they're serious, they can think in terms of policy, can gather smart folks together and use data effectively to craft good sounding policy. That's valuable, but once in office, you can throw it in the trash because the negotiations begin and philosophy takes over.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Apparently we are looking for much different things in our candidate. That's cool and luckily we got plenty to choose from. I think Pete seems like an OK guy. Obviously smart as they come. I have no personal issue with him. I just won't be supporting his bid for the reasons I've stated.
adonis
Footballguy
And that's fine. Not really trying to convince you to support him, as I'm still waiting for his performance in debates and under more pressure, but was curious to hear a bit more about a difference between what policy tells you and what philosophy tells you, especially once they're in office. If you're just wanting to disagree there, that's fine. Was really just curious to hear more about the distinction.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
I think policies are important, and I’ll expect more details as we go along. That said, I think Pete makes a good point about leading with the high level objectives of policy and not letting that get lost in the details.
No matter how specific policies are in a campaign, they rarely match details that end up being adopted into law. The broad strokes are more important.
No matter how specific policies are in a campaign, they rarely match details that end up being adopted into law. The broad strokes are more important.
timschochet
Footballguy
That’s great news for Pete and of course Sanders and Biden are nearby, but what an embarrassing result for Warren. She should be ahead in her home state.Emerson Massachusetts Poll
Sanders - 26%
Biden - 23%
Warren - 14%
Buttigieg - 11%
O'Rourke - 8%
Harris - 7%
adonis
Footballguy
And this seems like terrible news for Sanders:That’s great news for Pete and of course Sanders and Biden are nearby, but what an embarrassing result for Warren. She should be ahead in her home state.Emerson Massachusetts Poll
Sanders - 26%
Biden - 23%
Warren - 14%
Buttigieg - 11%
O'Rourke - 8%
Harris - 7%
I can't imagine the 18-29 folks continuing to vote for Sanders when Beto and Buttigeig become better known. And Biden is largely riding on his status as Obama's VP for 8 years but when he stands alone, I think it'll be tougher for him to carry the field although he may be safer with the older democratic demo.
But if Sanders can push into Biden's older vote, he could cede some of the younger vote to Beto and Pete and be OK. Will be interesting to see how this plays out. Warren and Harris really need to do something, imo, to stand out from the field. Warren seems to be doing it based on policy (imo) but I'm not sure what Harris's strategy is.
ETA: The 18-29 folks are those who have the most enthusiasm, and I don't see them sticking with Sanders. Maybe he can keep the 30-49 crew, and take some of the older , more likely to vote, crew from Biden and come out good from this. I just don't see the same enthusiasm for him sticking around this election when he's competing against other exciting folks. When that's the case, he'll have to draw from other demographics, and if Biden is solid, Warren maintains, and Beto/Pete get the enthusiasm vote...not sure what that leaves him.
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