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I want to become a culinary chef (1 Viewer)

wazoo11

Footballguy
How do you break into the world of food? @Joe Bryant @tipsy mcstagger

I work a boring office job and am looking for a career change.

I thought about culinary arts because that's what I did at a vocational high school.

 
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How do you break into the world of food? @Joe Bryant @tipsy mcstagger

I work a boring office job and am looking for a career change.

I thought about culinary arts because that's what I did at a vocational high school.
Tipsy and others will have much better advice as I just cook for a hobby. 

My take on chefs is a little like the tech industry. You can go to school and put in the time and get out and get a job. Or you can jump in and go to work and let experience be your "school". 

The school route is of course "safer" and more expensive in my opinion. (and some would argue how safe it really is). 

You're doing the right thing I think in asking questions. Best to you in this. 

 
I wanted to be as well when I was considering colleges and careers. My father owned a business that delivered to many high end restaurants and I got to know a lot of the head chefs.  

What changed my mind is that they warned me that, as a chef, you are working while everyone else is playing. Meaning, be ready to work on every holiday, all weekend long, and every other time that you otherwise would be out, and then when you are free, no one else is. 

From what I understand, it is a very tough lifestyle and requires a huge amount of hours and levels to rise to the top where you are more directing, then cooking. 

Now that was also back well before Food TV and social media made chef's rock stars. And anyone can become an influencer chef/cook right from their kitchen thanks to blogging and social media. I have a few friends and clients who have their own blogs on food and recipes and they are doing well, but that too takes time. 

@TheFanatic runs a very popular social media account on BBQ. 

 
Good luck..I love cooking myself but I am a hobby chef as well, not sure I could do it for a living.   It is not as glamorous and fun as Iron Chef, or beating Bobby Flay. Commercial kitchens in busy restaurants is a grind so make sure it is really your passion. If you are on your own even more so.

 
Just like the tv chefs, make sure to hire a couple of flunkies to do all the prep and clean-up. Then make sure you take credit for the whole thing.

 
Adam Jones (Bradley Cooper) “Resume is great., this lamb is fantastic. Will you work for me?”

David: “Heck yeah”

Adam: “Will you work for me for nothing?”

David: “Heck yeah”

(From the movie “Burnt”)

Do you have that kind of passion?

 
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What about going the gournet food truck route?  You tend to work more during business hours or working festivals, which could be fun. Some parents in my kids school started with one truck, developed a name, now have 12 and are essentially just running the business now. 

 
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I wanted to be as well when I was considering colleges and careers. My father owned a business that delivered to many high end restaurants and I got to know a lot of the head chefs.  

What changed my mind is that they warned me that, as a chef, you are working while everyone else is playing. Meaning, be ready to work on every holiday, all weekend long, and every other time that you otherwise would be out, and then when you are free, no one else is. 

From what I understand, it is a very tough lifestyle and requires a huge amount of hours and levels to rise to the top where you are more directing, then cooking. 

Now that was also back well before Food TV and social media made chef's rock stars. And anyone can become an influencer chef/cook right from their kitchen thanks to blogging and social media. I have a few friends and clients who have their own blogs on food and recipes and they are doing well, but that too takes time. 

@TheFanatic runs a very popular social media account on BBQ. 
This is good advice. When you first start out, you can expect to work every holiday or weekend if you are in the restaurant or country club business. I did this for over 25 years. It takes a toll on you physically and emotionally. Good luck trying to maintain a relationship. This part of the business usually attracts heavier drinkers and partiers in general. There are other sectors that can be less demanding while still being rewarding. Business & Industry, senior living or health care offer more reasonable schedules and the jobs are typically less demanding. You may have to give up some creativity though. A lot of up scale senior living places cater to the wealthy and these positions tend to allow for more creativity.

I would suggest getting a part time job at a place you think you may like before you make any rash decisions. You may have to start in the dish room, but this will give you a feel for the environment. If you don't like that one, try another. The chef sets the tone for the kitchen and every one is different. People come and go all the time, so places are usually always hiring. Being dependable, hard working and willing to learn with reliable transportation far outweigh experience in most entry level jobs in a kitchen.I would avoid chains or fast food, they don't offer the same opportunities an independent place would.

About 8 years ago I left a prestigious country club executive chef position and now I run the food-service for a large group of nuns. The pay is similar, the schedule is fantastic and the benefits are the best I have ever had in this industry.

 
After 37 plus years in the food service industry, my best advice is: DON'T DO IT!!  Keep your "boring desk job" or look for a different field.  Unless you are super passionate about food, it will suck your soul from you.
Thanks @Jedi Knight  Can you elaborate on specifically what you see as downsides and how one might avoid them? If they're avoidable? Thanks.

 
After 37 plus years in the food service industry, my best advice is: DON'T DO IT!!  Keep your "boring desk job" or look for a different field.  Unless you are super passionate about food, it will suck your soul from you.
I’ve “only” got 25 years in but don’t disagree one bit.  Restaurant biz is as tough as it gets and is unrelenting. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
Thanks @Jedi Knight  Can you elaborate on specifically what you see as downsides and how one might avoid them? If they're avoidable? Thanks.
Hi Joe,

Honestly, I could write a novel about it, but I'll try to keep it as short as possible.  A lot of the comments made , so far, are pretty good.  There are many different avenues for food-service besides restaurants.  Someone earlier mentioned food trucks.  There are also, hospital, school cafeterias, Office cafeterias, Country Clubs.  My own experience began in a steakhouse and then moved to pizza working for Pizza Hut for 16 years.  Then I moved to Charlotte Airport and ran about 15 different types of restaurants ranging from sandwich shops to Sbarro to Phillips Seafood.  I did that for 12 years and also a mall food court for 5 more years running 11 different restaurants.  Now I work for a supermarket deli, where I've been for the past three years.

All of them are unique and very different, and yet, very much the same.  The ingredients of what it takes to be successful in each of those are pretty much the same.

1- A sense of urgency.  All Day.  Every Day.  Even when you don't feel good.  There are a ton of people that are wonderful to talk to and get to know, but when you ask them to walk, talk and chew gum at the same time- they fold like a deck of cards.  In food-service, you don't have time to take the slow and steady approach.  Ever.  There's too much to do and it needs to be done immediately.  If you can't handle four or five priorities at a time, and keep them straight, you'll never make it.

2- Your schedule will suck.  I think Brownsfan mentioned it earlier.  I have never had week-ends off.  I'm lucky to get a week-end day off about once every two months unless I specifically request it.  And even then, that request is denied more than granted.  Holidays?  Forget it.  That's when you are busy.  On Thanksgiving, I typically close the night before (which means getting home after midnight) and then open the day after Thanksgiving, which means having to get up at 3:30am.  So the day of Thanksgiving, all I really want to do is sleep.  That's just an example.

If you are any management capacity, you will be required to work a minimum of 50-55 hours a week...but realistically, you will work 60-70 hours.  You have to be a real expert in time management to keep your work week down to 50 hours.  You're normal work day is 10-12 hours and sometimes will go into the 14-16 hour range with little warning.  I can't count how many times I went in to open at 5am and my relief manager called out for whatever reason and I had no option but to close.  Or better yet, you are closing and your opening manager calls out the night before and you have no choice but to turn around and come back in in the morning.  Another 10-12 hours (or more), but on about three hours sleep.  With a sense of urgency.

3- The clientele is far more demanding, knowledgeable and unforgiving.  It started with Burger King's "Have it your Way" campaign and the industry never looked back.  Everyone has a "special" way they like their food prepared and they get all out of sorts when you try to tell them that it's not the way your kitchen makes it.  But if you don't do your very best and make it happen, they are e-mailing home office and posting on Yelp/Trip Advisor about what a horrible business you have.  Don't get me wrong, most of your guests are fine, but it's that five percent that can give you headaches.

4- Thievery is common at every turn.  I have far too many stories about the lengths customers AND your employees will go to steal whatever they can from you.  Let's just leave it at you have to be on guard at every moment and trust no-one.

5- Your employees are generally at the bottom of the economic scale which leads to all kinds of issues.  People quit with no notice regularly.  Tardiness is common.  Drama is constant and never-ending.  Most (if not all) of your staff is one step away from poverty/homelessness- which just adds to the pressure you're already under just to keep the business running correctly.

6- Food Safety and Sanitation is a never-ending battle.  The cost of a single food-borne illness taken to court can kill your business and you have to be a drill-sergeant when it comes to cleanliness, times and temps.  All it takes is for someone to die from Salmonella or E. Coli due to whatever some lawyer twists into your negligence, and not only is the business likely gone, but you can held personally liable as well.

7- The money sucks.  The industry average profit for a restaurant after everything is paid is five percent.  A good year where everything goes right is ten percent.  Pay at every level (from cook to multi-unit management) usually does not equal the work put in.

8- Training is a joke.  Think back to how long it took you to know what it took to do your job.  In restaurants, you get about a week.  And at some, three days.  I can barely teach someone to properly make a pizza in three days, let alone teach him all the other aspects, expectations and tasks of the job.  Most of what I see now is a few hours of computer/video training, a few hours of paper work, a couple of shifts working along-side someone and then they are on their own to face guests and/or the barrage of orders during peak time.  It's not really a culture of developing people.

Those are some things right off the top of my head.  Don't get me wrong, not every day is horrible.  I have a lot of great days and a lot of great guests.  And there is nothing like the feeling you get when you cook something that other people rave about.  That's probably why I stayed in it.  Hope that helps.

 
Wow. Thank you @Jedi Knight  That's fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing such indepth thoughts and your experience. That's invaluable. 

I'll dig in and I'm sure I'll have some more questions. Thanks a ton.

 
Quick question @Jedi Knight

And you're a great person to ask as you've got such a breadth of experience. 

Am I right in thinking some types of food are way more profitable than others?

I can look at the grocery store and tell that food costs for BBQ is sky high.

I've always heard pizza is one of the most profitable.

Do you have insight on that?

Thanks.

 
Quick question @Jedi Knight

And you're a great person to ask as you've got such a breadth of experience. 

Am I right in thinking some types of food are way more profitable than others?

I can look at the grocery store and tell that food costs for BBQ is sky high.

I've always heard pizza is one of the most profitable.

Do you have insight on that?

Thanks.
You are absolutely correct.  Out of all the restaurants I've run, I could get about a 24% food cost in a pizza shop, whereas BBQ and Seafood were the highest at about 30-33%  However, the labor percent in BBQ is much lower than pizza.  Believe it or not, Sandwich shops also run a high food cost.  If you want to make money, the key is volume.  And to make the big bucks- you will work your tail off.

 
Oh...one more thing.  Grocery stores typically have a few "loss" items in their deli- priced lower to attract people so they are enticed to buy other things that have higher profit margins.  The one I work at right now sells a foot-long sub, super-customizable, for 7 or 8 bucks.  Most sub shops sell a foot-long for $11 and up.

 
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"You can't stay in your corner of the Forest waiting for others to come to you. You have to go to them sometimes." 
— Winnie the Pooh

 
Hi Joe,

Honestly, I could write a novel about it, but I'll try to keep it as short as possible.  A lot of the comments made , so far, are pretty good.  There are many different avenues for food-service besides restaurants.  Someone earlier mentioned food trucks.  There are also, hospital, school cafeterias, Office cafeterias, Country Clubs.  My own experience began in a steakhouse and then moved to pizza working for Pizza Hut for 16 years.  Then I moved to Charlotte Airport and ran about 15 different types of restaurants ranging from sandwich shops to Sbarro to Phillips Seafood.  I did that for 12 years and also a mall food court for 5 more years running 11 different restaurants.  Now I work for a supermarket deli, where I've been for the past three years.

All of them are unique and very different, and yet, very much the same.  The ingredients of what it takes to be successful in each of those are pretty much the same.

1- A sense of urgency.  All Day.  Every Day.  Even when you don't feel good.  There are a ton of people that are wonderful to talk to and get to know, but when you ask them to walk, talk and chew gum at the same time- they fold like a deck of cards.  In food-service, you don't have time to take the slow and steady approach.  Ever.  There's too much to do and it needs to be done immediately.  If you can't handle four or five priorities at a time, and keep them straight, you'll never make it.

2- Your schedule will suck.  I think Brownsfan mentioned it earlier.  I have never had week-ends off.  I'm lucky to get a week-end day off about once every two months unless I specifically request it.  And even then, that request is denied more than granted.  Holidays?  Forget it.  That's when you are busy.  On Thanksgiving, I typically close the night before (which means getting home after midnight) and then open the day after Thanksgiving, which means having to get up at 3:30am.  So the day of Thanksgiving, all I really want to do is sleep.  That's just an example.

If you are any management capacity, you will be required to work a minimum of 50-55 hours a week...but realistically, you will work 60-70 hours.  You have to be a real expert in time management to keep your work week down to 50 hours.  You're normal work day is 10-12 hours and sometimes will go into the 14-16 hour range with little warning.  I can't count how many times I went in to open at 5am and my relief manager called out for whatever reason and I had no option but to close.  Or better yet, you are closing and your opening manager calls out the night before and you have no choice but to turn around and come back in in the morning.  Another 10-12 hours (or more), but on about three hours sleep.  With a sense of urgency.

3- The clientele is far more demanding, knowledgeable and unforgiving.  It started with Burger King's "Have it your Way" campaign and the industry never looked back.  Everyone has a "special" way they like their food prepared and they get all out of sorts when you try to tell them that it's not the way your kitchen makes it.  But if you don't do your very best and make it happen, they are e-mailing home office and posting on Yelp/Trip Advisor about what a horrible business you have.  Don't get me wrong, most of your guests are fine, but it's that five percent that can give you headaches.

4- Thievery is common at every turn.  I have far too many stories about the lengths customers AND your employees will go to steal whatever they can from you.  Let's just leave it at you have to be on guard at every moment and trust no-one.

5- Your employees are generally at the bottom of the economic scale which leads to all kinds of issues.  People quit with no notice regularly.  Tardiness is common.  Drama is constant and never-ending.  Most (if not all) of your staff is one step away from poverty/homelessness- which just adds to the pressure you're already under just to keep the business running correctly.

6- Food Safety and Sanitation is a never-ending battle.  The cost of a single food-borne illness taken to court can kill your business and you have to be a drill-sergeant when it comes to cleanliness, times and temps.  All it takes is for someone to die from Salmonella or E. Coli due to whatever some lawyer twists into your negligence, and not only is the business likely gone, but you can held personally liable as well.

7- The money sucks.  The industry average profit for a restaurant after everything is paid is five percent.  A good year where everything goes right is ten percent.  Pay at every level (from cook to multi-unit management) usually does not equal the work put in.

8- Training is a joke.  Think back to how long it took you to know what it took to do your job.  In restaurants, you get about a week.  And at some, three days.  I can barely teach someone to properly make a pizza in three days, let alone teach him all the other aspects, expectations and tasks of the job.  Most of what I see now is a few hours of computer/video training, a few hours of paper work, a couple of shifts working along-side someone and then they are on their own to face guests and/or the barrage of orders during peak time.  It's not really a culture of developing people.

Those are some things right off the top of my head.  Don't get me wrong, not every day is horrible.  I have a lot of great days and a lot of great guests.  And there is nothing like the feeling you get when you cook something that other people rave about.  That's probably why I stayed in it.  Hope that helps.
Amazingly comprehensive post.  Especially spot-on regarding the employees.  The most frustrating thing I see Mr krista dealing with every day is trying to maintain a staff that is consistent and reliable.  I think it might be actually impossible in this industry.  As the boss he has to fill in so many shifts where people don’t show up or walk out literally in the middle of a shift, which leads to the consistent 60+-hour weeks you noted.  In addition to everything you’ve mentioned, there’s also fairly prevalent drug use, which adds to the challenge.  

He does it out of passion and being really, really good at it.  Without that I wouldn’t recommend coming anywhere near that business.

 
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I can't count how many times I went in to open at 5am and my relief manager called out for whatever reason and I had no option but to close.  Or better yet, you are closing and your opening manager calls out the night before and you have no choice but to turn around and come back in in the morning.  Another 10-12 hours (or more), but on about three hours sleep
So true. The dreaded good ole clopen. Was the GM of a 25,000 square foot, 7mil restaurant and nightclub for 15 years in downtown San Diego.  So many nights there til 3:30/4am and back at 8am that I can’t even begin to count how many of these I’ve done.   After that decided to open my own restaurant and my 70 hr work weeks turned into 90+ hr.  Restaurants are a flat no joke meat grinder. 

 
Quick question @Jedi Knight

And you're a great person to ask as you've got such a breadth of experience. 

Am I right in thinking some types of food are way more profitable than others?

I can look at the grocery store and tell that food costs for BBQ is sky high.

I've always heard pizza is one of the most profitable.

Do you have insight on that?

Thanks.
 Pizzas are great. My restaurant was centered around a big woodfired brick oven and focused on pizzas. But the bottom line is food cost in general, if run right, aren’t really the driving factors in the overall profitability. Labor, workers comp, health insurance, rent, etc. are far more of the determining factor on your profitability 

 
You are absolutely correct.  Out of all the restaurants I've run, I could get about a 24% food cost in a pizza shop, whereas BBQ and Seafood were the highest at about 30-33%  However, the labor percent in BBQ is much lower than pizza.  Believe it or not, Sandwich shops also run a high food cost.  If you want to make money, the key is volume.  And to make the big bucks- you will work your tail off.
 This is absolutely correct but also not completely true. Margin needs to be factored in as well. High-end steakhouses run 40+ percent food cost but the margin is high because they can charge more. So food cost in a vacuum is not a great tool to determine profitability.  A 25% food cost on a $10 item nets you 7.50 in profit,  but a 50% food cost on a $30 steak nets you 15.  

 
Amazingly comprehensive post.  Especially spot-on regarding the employees.  The most frustrating thing I see Mr krista dealing with every day is trying to maintain a staff that is consistent and reliable.  I think it might be actually impossible in this industry.  As the boss he has to fill in so many shifts where people don’t show up or walk out literally in the middle of a shift, which leads to the consistent 60+-hour weeks you noted.  In addition to everything you’ve mentioned, there’s also fairly prevalent drug use, which adds to the challenge.  

He does it out of passion and being really, really good at it.  Without that I wouldn’t recommend coming anywhere near that business.
No doubt. Also I will add there has been a generational shift with the millennial’s and the overall work ethic. I know that’s said about every generation but having done this for so long I’ve seen progressions within the generations and the millennials absolutely have a different view of what is good work.   The running joke with my colleagues and myself is that they expect a raise after showing up to work three of the last five days on time. They are also far quicker to hop jobs than previous so the no-show rate and overall turn over now in days is significantly higher  

 
 This is absolutely correct but also not completely true. Margin needs to be factored in as well. High-end steakhouses run 40+ percent food cost but the margin is high because they can charge more. So food cost in a vacuum is not a great tool to determine profitability.  A 25% food cost on a $10 item nets you 7.50 in profit,  but a 50% food cost on a $30 steak nets you 15.  
You are right.  It's all in how you balance your budget.  The biggest two expenses are always food and labor, but there are other factors such as rent/mortgage, equipment costs, electricity, credit card usage fees, etc.  And labor is not just what you pay in hourly wages, it also includes benefits, unemployment insurance, holiday pay.  Any way you cut it, the total profit margin is pretty thin and mis-managing any of them can ruin you really quick.

ETA- Oh yeah...serving alcohol can change things up as well.  High profit margin, but a whole slew of other issues.  Especially if you get a slick bartender that decides to go in business for himself...at your bar.

 
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No doubt. Also I will add there has been a generational shift with the millennial’s and the overall work ethic. I know that’s said about every generation but having done this for so long I’ve seen progressions within the generations and the millennials absolutely have a different view of what is good work.   The running joke with my colleagues and myself is that they expect a raise after showing up to work three of the last five days on time. They are also far quicker to hop jobs than previous so the no-show rate and overall turn over now in days is significantly higher  
Thanks as well @dkp993 and @krista4

Question. I hear this a good bit about the quality of employee being low for many of the reasons you mentioned. 

I dealt with this when I was in the boat manufacturing business by paying better. 

If a comparable job in town paid, $15 an hour, I'd pay $17 an hour. Wound up getting excellent people. I had bonuses in place for being on time. And perfect attendance. 

Out of 75 employees, we'd have 10 or so every year that wouldn't miss a day. And some didn't miss a day and were never ever late. 

I didn't do drug screens. I hired people who I thought were good people and put incentives in place where they did great work. 

And it worked.

As I consider a restaurant, I've thought I could do the same thing. Being smart in how you pay and treating people like adults. A good bit of that is in paying more than people can make for comparable work elsewhere. 

But are you folks saying there's just not enough money there to go around? 

 
Thanks as well @dkp993 and @krista4

Question. I hear this a good bit about the quality of employee being low for many of the reasons you mentioned. 

I dealt with this when I was in the boat manufacturing business by paying better. 

If a comparable job in town paid, $15 an hour, I'd pay $17 an hour. Wound up getting excellent people. I had bonuses in place for being on time. And perfect attendance. 

Out of 75 employees, we'd have 10 or so every year that wouldn't miss a day. And some didn't miss a day and were never ever late. 

I didn't do drug screens. I hired people who I thought were good people and put incentives in place where they did great work. 

And it worked.

As I consider a restaurant, I've thought I could do the same thing. Being smart in how you pay and treating people like adults. A good bit of that is in paying more than people can make for comparable work elsewhere. 

But are you folks saying there's just not enough money there to go around? 
There’s no question that is true but the question becomes where is the zero sum return and who are the people you pay higher wages to. Servers, bartenders, bussers etc. are typically tipped employees are really just working for the tips, the hourly wage that you can pay them extra to “get better people” makes no difference at the end of the day. Now at the GM level, Chef level, mid managers in both front and back of the house yes paying more can make difference.   A top-tier GM who truly understands the business is worth their weight in gold. As Jedi mentioned the margins are razor thin so someone who can manage those margins can absolutely make the difference between a -3% EBITDA and a 7% EBITDA, which honestly is the difference between keeping your doors open or not. 

 
Thanks as well @dkp993 and @krista4

Question. I hear this a good bit about the quality of employee being low for many of the reasons you mentioned. 

I dealt with this when I was in the boat manufacturing business by paying better. 

If a comparable job in town paid, $15 an hour, I'd pay $17 an hour. Wound up getting excellent people. I had bonuses in place for being on time. And perfect attendance. 

Out of 75 employees, we'd have 10 or so every year that wouldn't miss a day. And some didn't miss a day and were never ever late. 

I didn't do drug screens. I hired people who I thought were good people and put incentives in place where they did great work. 

And it worked.

As I consider a restaurant, I've thought I could do the same thing. Being smart in how you pay and treating people like adults. A good bit of that is in paying more than people can make for comparable work elsewhere. 

But are you folks saying there's just not enough money there to go around? 
Joe, it's not all about the money.  It's also very much about the manager.  You could pay me $100, but if you are a bad manager- I'll walk in a heartbeat.  I have no doubt that I would work for you without question- even if you paid me less than another restaurant.  For these reasons:

1- You are principled.  Over and over again, I've seen you stick to your principles without waivering.
2- You have a great communication style.  You have a way to get to the heart of an issue and asking questions before making demands.
3- You have a great work ethic.  I can tell this by the businesses you've built and the people you attract.
4- You care.  It has shown here many times when you have agonized over decisions, but at the end of the day, when a decision needed to be made- you made it.

Many restaurants are run by people that don't have people skills, or can't figure out how to get people to do things.  I've seen managers that hole up in their office, leaving supervisors or lead associates to run the show...day after day.  And there is a direct correlation in turnover percent.

If you have great people skills, and set a great example with your personal work ethic, you will retain a good core group of associates.  But you will always have the fringe associates that turn on a regular or semi-regular basis.

 
Joe, it's not all about the money.  It's also very much about the manager.  You could pay me $100, but if you are a bad manager- I'll walk in a heartbeat.  I have no doubt that I would work for you without question- even if you paid me less than another restaurant.  For these reasons:

1- You are principled.  Over and over again, I've seen you stick to your principles without waivering.
2- You have a great communication style.  You have a way to get to the heart of an issue and asking questions before making demands.
3- You have a great work ethic.  I can tell this by the businesses you've built and the people you attract.
4- You care.  It has shown here many times when you have agonized over decisions, but at the end of the day, when a decision needed to be made- you made it.

Many restaurants are run by people that don't have people skills, or can't figure out how to get people to do things.  I've seen managers that hole up in their office, leaving supervisors or lead associates to run the show...day after day.  And there is a direct correlation in turnover percent.

If you have great people skills, and set a great example with your personal work ethic, you will retain a good core group of associates.  But you will always have the fringe associates that turn on a regular or semi-regular basis.
Thank you, you're kind. I'd love to keep this conversation going and I so very much appreciate your insights and experience. Thanks for sharing. 

I THINK I could pull a team together and have them pulling in the right direction. But most every failed business has a leader who "thought" they could do it. 

It's attractive because I love the hospitality side of it. But I know there's way more to it than just that. And hearing from experienced folks like y'all in this thread give me pause about the "grind" part of it. I'll keep chewing on it. Thank you and @dkp993 and @krista4 for the insights. Huge help. 

 
Thank you, you're kind. I'd love to keep this conversation going and I so very much appreciate your insights and experience. Thanks for sharing. 

I THINK I could pull a team together and have them pulling in the right direction. But most every failed business has a leader who "thought" they could do it. 

It's attractive because I love the hospitality side of it. But I know there's way more to it than just that. And hearing from experienced folks like y'all in this thread give me pause about the "grind" part of it. I'll keep chewing on it. Thank you and @dkp993 and @krista4 for the insights. Huge help. 
Joe- happy to help where ever I can.  It’s been and continues to be my life’s work. 

 
Thank you, you're kind. I'd love to keep this conversation going and I so very much appreciate your insights and experience. Thanks for sharing. 

I THINK I could pull a team together and have them pulling in the right direction. But most every failed business has a leader who "thought" they could do it. 

It's attractive because I love the hospitality side of it. But I know there's way more to it than just that. And hearing from experienced folks like y'all in this thread give me pause about the "grind" part of it. I'll keep chewing on it. Thank you and @dkp993 and @krista4 for the insights. Huge help. 
I do think you'd have a leg up in the people management portion.  So many people want to own restaurants that many get into it without the proper tools, including knowing how to handle employees.  The owner of Mr. krista's current place was in process improvement for a living.  No restaurant experience, and no people management.  She seems like a nice woman but no management skill paired with no restaurant experience (not to mention not being naturally a leader) is tough, and I think contributes to the people issues somewhat.  With the experience you have running a business with a bunch of employees, at least you'd have that advantage.  

Just paying more isn't necessarily the right solution, as another person mentioned.  And often it's not possible.  One thing I try to suss out for each person I've managed is what drives them most.  For some people it's money, but for others it's public appreciation, for other private kudos, for others gaining more responsibility or authority, for others creativity, etc.  It's worked well for me in my sphere to play to these individual needs, and I try to talk through with Mr. krista the issues he has with an employee and how to address.  He has a terrific daytime cook who, for instance, doesn't care about being paid more, but it became clear that the employee was unhappy (and threatening to quit) before Mr. krista came in because he didn't feel he was given enough one-to-one appreciation.  Now that's been adjusted for, and he's the most solid guy in the kitchen.  

 
All the reasons outlined by @Jedi Knightand @dkp993and Mr @krista4 are well said, and absolutely correct, imo. Absolutely, this life isn't for everyone. I offered my niece my  business for a hell of a deal, and after seeing what it takes, she politely declined. And good for her, she's smart. Though my experience is really completely different. Working in a small potatoes restaurant, it's just a different world. I can't even comprehend what they deal with.  I have 2.5 employees. Close at 3 everyday, and close pretty well any other day we feel like it. I work 7 days a week, including most holidays, but we officially close as much as we can afford around the Holidays. Again, a completely different experience other than I also make a living by feeding people.

But I wanted to offer the other perspective. Why, after decades of doing it, that we still do (even as we suggest you not). I can't speak for them, but for me, it's the feeling of a good day's work doing something I think is important. That feeling, of being in a pure flow working as team to accomplish what seems impossible at times, is addicting. I turn 40 in a coupe of months, and traditional sports aren't in the cards for me (what little bit my body had left, the restaurant took), but my job feels like a sport. I was in sales for years, and loved it, but I've never otherwise experienced the rush of a good restaurant rush. At the end of the day, my body is spent, I left it all out there. When everything went to hell, we found that place in our soul to work our way out of it that most people are never fortunate enough to touch. And we try like hell to learn from that experience to get better for the next day.

As such, I get to wake up every day excited to see what we can accomplish, and typically end every day spent, knowing I gave it every damn thing I had trying to get better. I start and end my day inspired.

I don't even remember what other jobs are like at this point, but I suspect most don't offer that chance. It's a terrible job in most respects. Absolutely no doubt about it. Smart people should avoid at all costs. But there is a reason us suckers keep doing this.

 
All the reasons outlined by @Jedi Knightand @dkp993and Mr @krista4 are well said, and absolutely correct, imo. Absolutely, this life isn't for everyone. I offered my niece my  business for a hell of a deal, and after seeing what it takes, she politely declined. And good for her, she's smart. Though my experience is really completely different. Working in a small potatoes restaurant, it's just a different world. I can't even comprehend what they deal with.  I have 2.5 employees. Close at 3 everyday, and close pretty well any other day we feel like it. I work 7 days a week, including most holidays, but we officially close as much as we can afford around the Holidays. Again, a completely different experience other than I also make a living by feeding people.

But I wanted to offer the other perspective. Why, after decades of doing it, that we still do (even as we suggest you not). I can't speak for them, but for me, it's the feeling of a good day's work doing something I think is important. That feeling, of being in a pure flow working as team to accomplish what seems impossible at times, is addicting. I turn 40 in a coupe of months, and traditional sports aren't in the cards for me (what little bit my body had left, the restaurant took), but my job feels like a sport. I was in sales for years, and loved it, but I've never otherwise experienced the rush of a good restaurant rush. At the end of the day, my body is spent, I left it all out there. When everything went to hell, we found that place in our soul to work our way out of it that most people are never fortunate enough to touch. And we try like hell to learn from that experience to get better for the next day.

As such, I get to wake up every day excited to see what we can accomplish, and typically end every day spent, knowing I gave it every damn thing I had trying to get better. I start and end my day inspired.

I don't even remember what other jobs are like at this point, but I suspect most don't offer that chance. It's a terrible job in most respects. Absolutely no doubt about it. Smart people should avoid at all costs. But there is a reason us suckers keep doing this.
Very well said!!

While my posts are meant to scare, and they should, you are absolutely correct in that there are definitely payoffs. Hell I’m still doing it after 25 years and when pressed the truth is I love what I do and do it by choice.  

The thrill, and bonding experience with your team, you get in opening a restaurant to any level of success is almost indescribable. I have forged many life long friendships in the numerous openings I’ve done.  

The joy you get out of having a monster day of sales, out of going through a crazy dinner service and coming out the other side, out of sitting down beer in hand with your team and laughing about the craziness of the shift, out of the pride you get in overcoming the challenges faced as a team are more often then not well worth the 12hrs of hard work that day to get there.  

As @pollardsvision implies you’ve got to be born to do this to do it with any real long term success. It’s gotta be in your blood.  

 
Both of you guys are nailing the good reasons.  Let me add one more.  I've been asked in interviews 'why would I choose to be a manager'.  My answer was pretty simple.  There's nothing like taking a kid off the streets, out of high school (or maybe still in) and developing him into a manager and watching him (or her) succeed.  Or taking someone who is "challenged" and giving them a purpose in life through the job.  No amount of money can beat that.

 
Quick question @Jedi Knight

And you're a great person to ask as you've got such a breadth of experience. 

Am I right in thinking some types of food are way more profitable than others?

I can look at the grocery store and tell that food costs for BBQ is sky high.

I've always heard pizza is one of the most profitable.

Do you have insight on that?

Thanks.
I heard a quote the other day on this. Feed the rich and you'll be poor, but feed the poor and you'll get rich. 

 
I heard a quote the other day on this. Feed the rich and you'll be poor, but feed the poor and you'll get rich. 
Not sure I follow. I was talking about some food types are more profitable than others. Did you mean that or are you talking more in a charitable / giving thing?

 
Not sure I follow. I was talking about some food types are more profitable than others. Did you mean that or are you talking more in a charitable / giving thing?
No, it's about the restaurant business. The guy I heard the quote from, albeit he was quoting someone else, worked under Emeril when he got out of culinary school. He now owns a bunch of BBQ restaurants and is making a boatload from them. Opening a fine dining restaurant is a quick way to go broke. But feeding the masses...

I like the idea of the charitable/giving aspect of it though. Those are true riches. 

 
No, it's about the restaurant business. The guy I heard the quote from, albeit he was quoting someone else, worked under Emeril when he got out of culinary school. He now owns a bunch of BBQ restaurants and is making a boatload from them. Opening a fine dining restaurant is a quick way to go broke. But feeding the masses...

I like the idea of the charitable/giving aspect of it though. Those are true riches. 
Thanks. I do think it's an interesting discussion on margins.

Totally get the lower margin on the higher ticket item is more money than a bigger margin on the lower price item. 

Clearly, BBQ has a higher food cost than something like pizza. Especially when you get into prime grade brisket and such. Do you have thoughts there on how the different food types compare?

 
@krista4 alluded to it.  but i'll touch on it further.  drugs and alcohol are RAMPANT.  during the shift.  before and after.  i refer to the the restaurant business as the "den of inequity".  sex is also quite prevalent and leads to endless drama.  thievery, comes from all sides and in all forms.  in my experience, about 10% or less are excellent employees.  and sometimes they are the ones perpetuating all of the above.

to the OP, don't do it.

 
Thanks. I do think it's an interesting discussion on margins.

Totally get the lower margin on the higher ticket item is more money than a bigger margin on the lower price item. 

Clearly, BBQ has a higher food cost than something like pizza. Especially when you get into prime grade brisket and such. Do you have thoughts there on how the different food types compare?
Having talked to other BBQ restauranteurs, the real key is the pulled pork. It's almost pure profit. Only a tiny bit of it goes to waste. 

I know five different guys who have opened five different BBQ restaurants here in St. Louis in the last 2 years and all of them are raking. They sell out almost every day. It's like a license to print money. 

 
@krista4 alluded to it.  but i'll touch on it further.  drugs and alcohol are RAMPANT.  during the shift.  before and after.  i refer to the the restaurant business as the "den of inequity".  sex is also quite prevalent and leads to endless drama.  thievery, comes from all sides and in all forms.  in my experience, about 10% or less are excellent employees.  and sometimes they are the ones perpetuating all of the above.

to the OP, don't do it.
Can you elaborate on how you know this and more detail on what kind of restaurants you saw it with?  

I'm not disagreeing with you as I've heard this in other places. Just asking for some more insight. Thanks. 

 
all i knows is that i have always been really nice to restaurant workers because i feel like they take a lot of crap and get yelled at for a lot of stuff that no one should be getting yelled at about and do not need more from me and evertyhing you have all said makes me feel even better about that take that to the bank bromigos 

 
Having talked to other BBQ restauranteurs, the real key is the pulled pork. It's almost pure profit. Only a tiny bit of it goes to waste. 

I know five different guys who have opened five different BBQ restaurants here in St. Louis in the last 2 years and all of them are raking. They sell out almost every day. It's like a license to print money. 
That's super interesting. Would love to hear more details. 

I was in a VERY famous BBQ restaurant for their BBQ school and they pull a Boston Butt off the smoker, pull the bone and EVERYTHING else goes in the Buffalo Grinder. 

You can do that when you chop it fine. I serve mine in much bigger pieces and there's no way you can do that. I throw away a ton of fat and gristle. In other words, my waste is WAY more than this place's.

Still though, you lose a ton to fat rendering during the cook. 

How much sellable meat do you feel is reasonable to expect from an 8 pound raw Boston Butt?

 
That's super interesting. Would love to hear more details. 

I was in a VERY famous BBQ restaurant for their BBQ school and they pull a Boston Butt off the smoker, pull the bone and EVERYTHING else goes in the Buffalo Grinder. 

You can do that when you chop it fine. I serve mine in much bigger pieces and there's no way you can do that. I throw away a ton of fat and gristle. In other words, my waste is WAY more than this place's.

Still though, you lose a ton to fat rendering during the cook. 

How much sellable meat do you feel is reasonable to expect from an 8 pound raw Boston Butt?
Just think of it this way. How much does that butt cost and how many sandwiches does it make? If you're selling a sandwich for say, $5 (that's a low number), how many do you need to sell to pay for the butt? All the rest are pure profit. 

 
Just think of it this way. How much does that butt cost and how many sandwiches does it make? If you're selling a sandwich for say, $5 (that's a low number), how many do you need to sell to pay for the butt? All the rest are pure profit
That's not really the case.  You have the labor, utilities, rent, workers comp, taxes, supplies and equipment, wood to fire the ovens, etc etc etc. all that needs to get paid from these "profits".  Now there is an argument to be made that once you've done enough sales to cover your baseline cost that then yes this is true but it's a long road to get there.

 
Thanks. I do think it's an interesting discussion on margins.

Totally get the lower margin on the higher ticket item is more money than a bigger margin on the lower price item. 

Clearly, BBQ has a higher food cost than something like pizza. Especially when you get into prime grade brisket and such. Do you have thoughts there on how the different food types compare?
This is where the discussion on opening a restaurant always needs to start. In part because this discussion also includes the demographics of the surrounding area and projected foot traffic. Those 2 things along with the margins dictate pricing. A great (and honest/realistic) proforma needs to be put together to understand the challenges, this or of course a big bank roll to withstand the first year plus of losses as you adjust to the marketplace.

Now there is no question that there are exceptions to this rule and that great food and concept can win out but this is a much large roll of the dice and requires a fair amount of luck and timing to factor in.

 
@krista4 alluded to it.  but i'll touch on it further.  drugs and alcohol are RAMPANT.  during the shift.  before and after.  i refer to the the restaurant business as the "den of inequity".  sex is also quite prevalent and leads to endless drama.  thievery, comes from all sides and in all forms.  in my experience, about 10% or less are excellent employees.  and sometimes they are the ones perpetuating all of the above.

to the OP, don't do it.
All of this is certainly true and I won't even attempt to dispute it as it would be futile.  But I will add that great leadership can mitigate the affects of almost all of this on the business.  

Speaking to the angle of the OP and his thoughts on entering the F&B world.  Will power is the key.  The industry is rife with partying and the temptations will abound.  If you have the internal strength to know your limits you'll be fine, if not it's not the industry for you and stay away.  I've known far to many people who have destroyed their lives and it's heartbreaking.  But being in the industry my whole life I've also know a ton of great people whom have gone on to great successes.  As always it comes down to the individual.   

 
Can you elaborate on how you know this and more detail on what kind of restaurants you saw it with?  

I'm not disagreeing with you as I've heard this in other places. Just asking for some more insight. Thanks. 
I’ve been in the game all my life.  I’ve opened restaurants, including my sister’s in the Virgin Islands. Ran the most expensive catering company in Los Angeles, been at the $100+ per person price point for 20 years or so.  

I’ve seen the den of iniquity across the board. Pizza joints, take out joints, 17 million/year juggernaughts. million dollar, one day, events.  It’s an unsavory place of business, the restaurant gig. 

 

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