Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Trump care, Trump just lied straight into your face (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter bosoxs45
- Start date
The Commish
Footballguy
Where are you located? Here in central Florida there seems to be a major focus on doing exactly this. I can't walk down the street without seeing banners, booths etc for registration / election information. I think it would behove them to get some messages out on social media, maybe even some commercials, but outside of that, they are doing a good bit around me.
The Commish
Footballguy
But I'll leave it for the Trumpsters to explain. They'll be in to talk actual policy once Trump is out of office. Lots of celebrating to do over Trump not being a willful participant in collusion 
Miami, so I'll defer to you on what they're doing to target Puerto Ricans (who are mostly based around Orlando). I just know that I heard all last year about how all those people moving here after Maria would take out their anger on the GOP for Trump's response, but that wave never seemed to materialize. My view is also shaped by the horrible job Dems have done mobilizing Latinos in Miami-Dade. And that's not just because they're all right-wing Cubans. The Latino population down here has become increasingly diversified (Argentinians, Brazilians, Venezuelans), plus the younger generations of Cubans tend to behave more like other Latinos than like their parents, but Democrats still seem unable to ride them to victory. It probably doesn't help that there has never been a Latino Dem nominated for a statewide office.
Anyway, I hope you're right, and I also hope that when Trump is actually on the ballot those Puerto Ricans will be motivated in a way they weren't to vote against DeSantis and Scott (who, to be fair, did a good job of courting them).
The Commish
Footballguy
Yeah, it was a ####show for sure. They didn't have the people in place to capitalize. Seems like they're getting their feet under them a bit now. I guess time will tell.
That's a bigger effort than I saw in Miami in 2015-2016. My younger daughter worked for New Florida Majority in Miami and helped register many voters by hanging out with a team of workers in places like Sedano parking lots and randomly approaching people. Her Spanish improved dramatically. On an average day of 5 or 6 hours, she'd help register about 8-10 people, mostly immigrants fron Colombia, Cuba and Nicaragua. Most would register as independents or democrats, but a good number as Republicans. In the 2018 election in Miami, I saw more of what you're seeing in central Florida, especially in schools. Gillum should help with his GOTV campaign.
On the Republican side, a lot of older conservative retirees have resumed their march to warm, sunny & low tax Florida. In places like the Villages near you, they turned out in big numbers to support Scott and DiSantis. If Trump and the GOP, touch Medicare, their support among these people will drop.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
Fortunately I had never seen the word before now. I would appreciate if this is the last time.
I'm glad he's doing it, but I hope he's learned from his mistakes in 2018. If his margins in Miami-Dade had been even close to what previous Dems had achieved, he would have won.
I saw a great tweet on Election Night last year that said something like "Republican retirees in Florida are legion. We keep waiting for them to die off but then they bring in reinforcements."
roadkill1292
Footballguy
This has always seemed to be the biggest question to me -- why won't America's employers get behind being relieved of this? Heck, only 50% of employers offer traditional health insurance benefits now (though that half employs about 75% of all workers). But you and I are in an extreme minority in even voicing this question and I don't know the reason for that, either. I've been told that employers use the lack of health care portability to make it more difficult for people to change jobs but surely that can't be a big enough reason by itself, can it?
I'm really bugged by this part of it.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
At any moment know, Trump and Senate and House Republicans will be along to tell us how their ensuing plan will be better for more Americans.
We may just be seeing one of those rare moments on FBG boards where Tim is right. Kill the ACA now and the Pubbies really have fumbled their FG attempt.
The Commish
Footballguy
When my grandmother went to the hospital with the encephalitis that would eventually kill her, we discovered that her second husband had been losing his mental faculties for some time and she had been covering for him. Anyway, we put him in a nursing home and he basically reverted to being an 18 year old who would schtup everything that wasn't bolted down. My mom and aunt went to pick him up on the day of my grandmother's funeral and the orderlies told them that the previous day they had caught him in bed with his friend's wife (FYI his friend was still alive and also a resident at the nursing home.)Fun fact....The Villages have the highest concentration of STDs in the country
All of which is to say that was the moment I learned that nursing homes and retirement communities are our modern-day Sodoms and Gommorrahs.
The Commish
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
now to bring it all full circle....can you imagine what would happen at The Villages if Trump was successful in taking away funding from medicare??? 
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
So were better typewriters. Both are obviously antiquated in 2019. I work for CVS/Aetna, so I'm familiar with the history of employer based health insurance in the US. My question was largely rhetorical, meant to highlight that businesses themselves would be better off without this expense, even with the tax benefits they receive.
De-coupling health insurance from employment is a no-brainer both for employers and employees. If employers want to offer better benefits, they still can do so in any number of ways.
By all means, go ahead. It was funny! (Maybe the fact that he wasn't my grandfather made it a little easier for me to establish distance?)I shouldn't laugh at this particular story, but I'm gonna
I'm no expert on The Villages, but my sense is that these folks are hard-core Trump supporters, so it will probably be tough to shake them (also, as long as Democrats control the House it's going to be more about what he's trying to do than what he actually accomplishes).now to bring it all full circle....can you imagine what would happen at The Villages if Trump was successful in taking away funding from medicare???
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
It's a great question. If large businesses starting stepping up in support of universal healthcare, it seems like that could be the impetus to get it done.
I think there's a lesson in there for Medicare for All supporters: People tend to fear an uncertain future more than they do a crappy present. Which isn't to say we shouldn't try to eventually decouple insurance from employment. But we shouldn't fool ourselves (particularly not based on a few vaguely worded polls) about the fact that this #### is gonna be hard.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Very true. The fear of change and the disruption factor are two major reasons why it is definitely hard to get it done. Not necessarily two good reasons, but two major reasons.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Our whole political system was designed to prevent excessively quick change, whatever that means. That may have been fine in a small agrarian nation with primitive technology but it just means that we continue to fall behind now. It's a beautiful system if you're someone who wants change at the speed of glaciers.
ffldrew
Footballguy
I'll say this again - employer provided healthcare is a drain on corporate productivity. My anecdotal case:
I started working for new employer in Nov 2017 - time to sign up for new benefits. I sit in meeting with a few other new hires and HR team to explain. I love filling out forms! Call wife to ask for daughters SSN and a bunch of other crap. Nice waste of time.
March 2018 - time for renewal of employers plan - it is totally changing carriers and plans. Everyone in company has to sit through several presentations and then filling in forms losing a bunch of productivity.
August 2018 - we are bought by a new company - hey guess what? new benefits! Yay - get to sit thru presentations along with my other bought out colleagues and sifting through a ton of brochures and stuff to compare plans. Did I mention filling out new paper work?
March/April 2019 - time for annual renewal of benefits at new firm. Guess what I get to do next Tuesday or Wednesday - sit in on presentations on a set of new plans. Your plan can't just rollover - no no - we get to fill in more paperwork.
4 times in 16-18 months of wasted time and energy.
Now you are telling me that if we had single payer - I would just have my plan rollover and not have to fill out new paperwork? If I switched jobs it wouldn't matter? If I wanted to start my own company - I'm covered?
We are killing American business and ingenuity - and like you all have said above I can't believe every Chamber of Commerce/Industry Lobbying Group is not behind this. Well I know why - the only people who belong to the Chambers are insurance agents. Let's let widget makers hire the best widget makers and not an army of HR specialists and people who have to annually spend time chasing down the best plans and prices so insurance and private heath care corporations can put their fingers in the system to extract a "profit". It's madness.
I started working for new employer in Nov 2017 - time to sign up for new benefits. I sit in meeting with a few other new hires and HR team to explain. I love filling out forms! Call wife to ask for daughters SSN and a bunch of other crap. Nice waste of time.
March 2018 - time for renewal of employers plan - it is totally changing carriers and plans. Everyone in company has to sit through several presentations and then filling in forms losing a bunch of productivity.
August 2018 - we are bought by a new company - hey guess what? new benefits! Yay - get to sit thru presentations along with my other bought out colleagues and sifting through a ton of brochures and stuff to compare plans. Did I mention filling out new paper work?
March/April 2019 - time for annual renewal of benefits at new firm. Guess what I get to do next Tuesday or Wednesday - sit in on presentations on a set of new plans. Your plan can't just rollover - no no - we get to fill in more paperwork.
4 times in 16-18 months of wasted time and energy.
Now you are telling me that if we had single payer - I would just have my plan rollover and not have to fill out new paperwork? If I switched jobs it wouldn't matter? If I wanted to start my own company - I'm covered?
We are killing American business and ingenuity - and like you all have said above I can't believe every Chamber of Commerce/Industry Lobbying Group is not behind this. Well I know why - the only people who belong to the Chambers are insurance agents. Let's let widget makers hire the best widget makers and not an army of HR specialists and people who have to annually spend time chasing down the best plans and prices so insurance and private heath care corporations can put their fingers in the system to extract a "profit". It's madness.
E Street Brat
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
I am baffled that the exact same people who say "we need to help our companies be more competitive in the global market" are the EXACT same people who oppose Medicare for All. It's THE BIGGEST drain a company has in those terms. It is completely and totally, 100% inconsistent/illogical. If you hold the traditional conservative position of "make nice with all the big companies", this is how you do that.
Last edited by a moderator:
E Street Brat
Footballguy
It doesn't fit to well with small government conservatives [yes I know that GOP ship has sailed] Why Should I trust Medicare for All? What makes you think it would be better the government sponsored ACA? Fool me once...….. wont get fooled again......
I am baffled that the exact same people who say "we need to help our companies be more competitive in the global market" are the EXACT same people who oppose Medicare for All. It's THE BIGGEST drain a company has in those terms. It is completely and totally, 100% inconsistent/illogical. If you hold the traditional conservative position of "make nice with all the big companies", this is how you do that.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
I would feel extremely owned and defeated if they did.It's certainly a bold strategy. I agree that the republicans should run on this.
The Commish
Footballguy
These are different questions than the two inconsistent positions I mentioned above. Not sure why you quoted me to make these comments.It doesn't fit to well with small government conservatives [yes I know that GOP ship has sailed] Why Should I trust Medicare for All? What makes you think it would be better the government sponsored ACA? Fool me once...….. wont get fooled again......
I am baffled that the exact same people who say "we need to help our companies be more competitive in the global market" are the EXACT same people who oppose Medicare for All. It's THE BIGGEST drain a company has in those terms. It is completely and totally, 100% inconsistent/illogical. If you hold the traditional conservative position of "make nice with all the big companies", this is how you do that.
I've stated here a billion times that the logical next step is a public option where a government plan is allowed to compete on the private market with everyone else. You wouldn't have to "trust" anything. It would either work or it would fail. It would be worth it, or maybe not. You'll have to break down what you mean by "government sponsored ACA" though. I have no idea what that means. ACA is a set of laws in place for private insurance companies and healthcare companies have to abide by.
Last edited by a moderator:
Jackstraw
Footballguy
Think of the potential entrepreneurs who could be out there were they not chained to their jobs for benefits.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
Biggest impediment to me hiring new people
I am baffled that the exact same people who say "we need to help our companies be more competitive in the global market" are the EXACT same people who oppose Medicare for All. It's THE BIGGEST drain a company has in those terms. It is completely and totally, 100% inconsistent/illogical. If you hold the traditional conservative position of "make nice with all the big companies", this is how you do that.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
And even better for those who exploit the inevitable inertia that keeps us from having functional governments. I really don't think health insurance companies are very worried right now; they know with an electoral system that allows a minority entrenched against change (I won't even make the obvious charges about lining their pockets at the expense of the American consumer) to resist, they can keep a modern not-for-profit health care system from being enacted for decades.
ffldrew
Footballguy
Exactly!
Most of those potential entrepreneurs are young people with some idea. Only problem is when you are young is you have kids and a wife and they need benefits. So not only does it affect the person starting the new enterprise by making he/she hesitant to pay big money for solo healthcare, it affects the ability to bring in others from a firm that has benefits, not to mention that bringing in a new person at the small business cycle is way too expensive when you are 2-10 person shop. If my buddy starts up a software firm and says "I need you" - and I'm on insurance where my young kid is covered so far on a condition, I can't switch if pre-existing is not going to be open. This is making it more difficult to break gravity for the engine of our economy - small business.To grow the economy we need ideas and invention - not tax breaks and loopholes for corporations.
Last edited by a moderator:
Another fun fact: There was a documented HIV cluster in Century Village in Pembroke Pines about 10 years ago. The culprits: Viagra, close proximity to a trailer park with prostitutes, and a 5-1 ratio of women to men in Century Village. At the beginning of the month, when SS checks arrived, some of the men would venture over to the trailer park with their pills and money. Then, during the rest of the month have their choice of women in Century Village. That's how its was described to me by Katie GeMeiner, aka the "Condom Lady", when she did a presentation where I work. Last I heard, she was a volunteer with the Broward County Health Department handing out condoms to men as old as 102: https://www.sun-sentinel.com/health/fl-xpm-2012-09-07-fl-grandparents-day-surprises-090912-20120906-6-story.htmlFun fact....The Villages have the highest concentration of STDs in the country
Last edited by a moderator:
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Business startups in this country are trending downward. You want to help entrepreneurs, the real drivers of innovation and future job growth? Support M4A. Otherwise, we're a nation of Walmart and Amazon part-time, or even contractual, workers with no benefits except what they can afford from their $13 an hour wage. And dependent on the government for what little they can get.
But we'll have access to cheap toilet paper!
But we'll have access to cheap toilet paper!
yak651
Footballguy
Yep, with Obamacare we started receiving the form letting us know the "cost" of our company provided insurance. Don't have. The numbers in front of me but believe it was $17-19k. Well if my employer provided me with a salary increase in line with the savings of not providing healthcare, I would not complain about paying an additional $10k or so in taxes to pay for Medicare for all.
The Commish
Footballguy
I guess this is as good a place to put this as anywhere else. Have any of you read the study from Mercatus Center (funded by the Koch brothers) stating the Bernie plan will cost 32.6 trillion over 10 years? I think I need some help understanding how that's a bad thing when in our current system we are projected to spend $59 trillion from 2022-2031 
That's roughly a $2 trillion saving if my math is correct.
Now, I fully acknowledge that after reading the study with the assumptions, it's pretty clear the assumptions are "best possible outcome" in their generosity, but I can't help but laugh at these yahoos for putting out a study that they are using to demonize Bernie's plan that, when you look at it and it's assumptions actually shows a savings like that
That's roughly a $2 trillion saving if my math is correct.
Now, I fully acknowledge that after reading the study with the assumptions, it's pretty clear the assumptions are "best possible outcome" in their generosity, but I can't help but laugh at these yahoos for putting out a study that they are using to demonize Bernie's plan that, when you look at it and it's assumptions actually shows a savings like that
Gopher State
Footballguy
GoBirds
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
That one guy
Footballguy
Honest question: what is the Republican plan for healthcare/insurance? Maybe it isn’t some massive piece of legislation like ACA, but rather a bunch of smaller items used to target specific ailments of the system.
McConnell himself has stated he’s stepping aside to see what the White House comes up with. Which, ya know, sort of goes back to the immigration emergency stance of “the Republicans had the House, Senate, and presidency, why now and with what direction?” I’ll be honest, I know very little of this political topic aside from “repeal and replace”. So what are the policy initiatives of the Republicans?
McConnell himself has stated he’s stepping aside to see what the White House comes up with. Which, ya know, sort of goes back to the immigration emergency stance of “the Republicans had the House, Senate, and presidency, why now and with what direction?” I’ll be honest, I know very little of this political topic aside from “repeal and replace”. So what are the policy initiatives of the Republicans?
timschochet
Footballguy
Their plan is to return healthcare to the free market as much as possible. The main problem with that plan is that people with pre-existing conditions will have to once again pay tons more that anyone else or be excluded altogether in some cases. The Republicans know that is extremely unpopular, even among their most loyal supporters, so they’re scared to tell you. Instead they continue the lie, begun by Romney in 2012 and continued by Trump, that they can get rid of Obamacare and still protect pre-existing conditions. Since that is impossible, they have no “plan” they want to tell you about.
James Daulton
Footballguy
And with more and more people having pre-existing conditions this becomes an unwinable issue for the GOP.
Although much like his campaign claim that Mexico would pay for the wall, his supporters seem to have forgotten that he said fixing healthcare and providing cheap, good healthcare would be easy.
The Commish
Footballguy
Let's be clear, there is no GOP plan for healthcare. There are many articles like the one I linked above. They are all like WTF Donny!!! Apparently one of Trump's goto guys on this is Rick Scott
For those not familiar with Scott, he just finished up being governor of Florida and has made his millions off of the healthcare industry. I watch CBS This Morning on Sunday mornings with the family and came back in the room while Meet the Press was on. Rick Scott was being interviewed and it's pretty clear that he was thrown into this. I will say I like his main talking point of cutting costs. He even seems to understand that it will take federal government intervention to tell the pharama companies "no" to their price gouging here in the US. Ironically enough, Sanders was on the show the segment before saying the exact same thing. I'm sure that will go over well with Scott's GOP. He's 100% right, but that's billions lost in donations to the GOP should they actually alienate the industry in the manner necessary to drive down drug costs.Outside of his focus on price he had virtually nothing else to say about the topic. All he talked about was price. If this continues to be a focus by Trump, its going to be ugly for the GOP in 2020.
I am pretty sure the plan was anticipating not winning the presidency so they could constantly talk about having a great plan without having to show it. Turns out they actually had no plan, who wudda thunk.
sho nuff
Footballguy
And the Dems are the obstructionist party?Cowards
Plenty of gems in the article, but these two pretty much encapsulate the modern day GOP...another reason to shed the label of "conservative" these days.
The house should keep plugging away and sending Mitch stuff. Let him keep doing his thing and use that all to expose the party and Trump and over.
Mile High
Footballguy
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
I think Republicans want to cover healthy people and drop them when they get sick.
kwille
Footballguy
Sigh. Health care isn't a game. Trying to outmaneuver the other guy without any real purpose is wasted effort, bad governance, and unfortunately the usual approach. We shouldn't encourage it regardless of political leanings. Politics as sport is dumb (especially when considering issues like health care) and political fan boys suck (not aimed specifically at you, Sho, we all fall into the trap).
sho nuff
Footballguy
I’m also not just talking about healthcare. (And not saying things that don’t have a purpose...out real legislation out there) But if they want to win and get meaningful legislation ever passed they need to keep pushing actual bills out of the house and make Mitch do this...expose them til either he allows a vote or he is no longer majority leader and able to hold everything up.
Last edited by a moderator:
The Commish
Footballguy
Why is there a sigh here
He's simply saying that they need to churn out legislation and he's right. That's their job. That's not playing politics. That's doing your job. Then it goes to the Senate to be discussed, voted on, refined/altered/edited then pass it back to the house. You do this until you have a consensus. Each chamber has a job to do. One is doing it, the other is playing political games. All we as the electorate can do is demand they do their jobs (though that will do very little given the condition of gerrymandering in this country). Expecting them to do their jobs is not a game either.
Similar threads
