Challenges of going from 12 team to 14 teams?? (1 Viewer)

Since it’s the off-season hopefully it’s ok to ask this here.  My league will be moving from a 12 team PPR redraft league to 14 team PPR, for those that have played in both what do you see as the biggest differences and biggest challenges??

Another thing that makes my league interesting we only start 1 Rb 1 Wr 1 Te 3 flex Rb/Wr/Te  with all TDS worth 6 pts. But 9pts for TDS over 40 yards. With these settings would you rather draft in beggining middle or end?

I've never played in a 14 but I've played in some 16s

My advice, don't skimp on RBs because you only have to start 1. 

GOOD rbs are thin in 12 teamers, they're even thinner once you add more teams

Use your league scoring to see which position puts up the most points and strive to start 4 players of that group. It doesn't matter which position it is, just load up on that one. 

QBs will also be thin so make sure you grab 2 quality starters before it's too late. Some owners will draft 3+ leaving other owners with only 1 starter.

Ben & Jerry's said:

Use your league scoring to see which position puts up the most points and strive to start 4 players of that group. It doesn't matter which position it is, just load up on that one. 

QBs will also be thin so make sure you grab 2 quality starters before it's too late. Some owners will draft 3+ leaving other owners with only 1 starter.

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We only start 1 QBs 

hotboyz said:

We only start 1 QBs 

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I understood that. My point was if you don't secure 2 starters, you will take a zero on your BYE week and if your starter goes down you are screwed. 

You will have to overpay big time to acquire another starter at the only position that will likely have no one available on the wire.

I started out years ago playing in 10 and 12 team leagues. Now both my family league and my money league are 14 (the latter was 16 initially, then went down to 14). 

IMO, it's all relative. The first year it will feel like you're scraping the bottom of the barrel to fill out your roster, but eventually you'll get used to it. Moving from 16 to 14 was like running 5 miles with weights on your ankles and then running a few more after removing them.

Point is, I don't think it's a fundamentally different game. You just have to get used to a different quality of player based on what you might expect out of, say, an RB2 or WR3.

One thing I will say is that if your rules create scarcity at a certain position, getting bigger will definitely raise the stakes if you screw up your draft. For example, in my money league we start 3 WRs, and the first couple years (when it was 16 teams) I didn't adjust my draft strategy for that. As a result a few weeks into the season I was frequently trotting out hot garbage at the WR3 slot. But in your case, with three flex spots, I don't see that as being as big of a problem.

As for the optimal draft slot, it's really impossible to say; depends a lot more on how talent is distributed. If you're close to the turn, you may need to plan ahead and grab guys a little earlier than their ADP,  but that's true in smaller leagues as well.

Just to give you an idea, here were my starters across my two teams last year (* = FA pickup)

Team 1 (standard): QB: Mahomes RB: Barkley/Lindsay*/Michel WR: Hill/Sanders/Boyd* TE: Kittle

Team 2 (0.5 PPR): QB: Luck RB: Zeke/Lindsay*/Chubb* WR: Thielen/Cooks TE: Njoku*

As it happened, I drafted particularly well last year, especially in the first league. That hasn't always been the case. But I was still able to get decent return on the WW

I prefer 14 team leagues with large benches.  It makes the draft more important because the waiver wire is usually fairly thin for most of the season.  QB's have an increased value because if you wait you run the risk of being in that 14-18 range of QB's which is where it drops off. 

Your starting requirements will make it a bit easier since you don't have a lot of a certain position you have to start.  That kind of diminishes the 14 teams when compared to a 10/12 team league that starts two or three at each position. 

Also, the more teams in a league the more value having a guy that can win you a week.  They become critical because there are starting spots that generally don't put up many points.  So if you have a guy that scores like 2 or 3 players in one it really helps cover those spots and can literally win you a week by themselves.  This is more for 16+ team leagues but still has some merit in 14 over 12 and 10 team leagues. 

Gally said:

I prefer 14 team leagues with large benches.  It makes the draft more important because the waiver wire is usually fairly thin for most of the season.  QB's have an increased value because if you wait you run the risk of being in that 14-18 range of QB's which is where it drops off. 

Your starting requirements will make it a bit easier since you don't have a lot of a certain position you have to start.  That kind of diminishes the 14 teams when compared to a 10/12 team league that starts two or three at each position. 

Also, the more teams in a league the more value having a guy that can win you a week.  They become critical because there are starting spots that generally don't put up many points.  So if you have a guy that scores like 2 or 3 players in one it really helps cover those spots and can literally win you a week by themselves.  This is more for 16+ team leagues but still has some merit in 14 over 12 and 10 team leagues. 

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Bolded.....agree 100%.  So I rather draft early and get a superelite RB like Barkley or Zeke or CMC or Kamara and work from there.  All these RBs can win you a week all by themselves.

Also, be prepared to draft your QB a round or two earlier than in a 12 teamer.  I usually like to get a starter that I like and draft a backup later.  For me there are usually 10-12 guys that I can accept as my "starter".  Since that is less than the number of teams in a 14 teamer....plan accordingly and draft a QB earlier, even if you have to slightly overpay so you don't get stuck behind a big QB run.

whats nice is it makes the schedule easier as you can play every other team once and go right into the playoffs in week 14....

with some weeks having as many as 6 teams on a bye and usually at least 4....your starting QB's, TE's, PK's, and DST take a little bit of a hit....especially for the guys that stream some of those postilions...so I wouldn't just consider positions like PK and DST as throw away positions....you could maybe gain a little bit of advantage there over the course of the season by investing earlier in a solid PK and DST and by all means only take one of each so more of your picks can be spent on strengthening the depth of your Flex......this bye week thing means some weeks there are only 26 QB's starting and if teams carry two or three it makes some weeks tough...I think this elevates the Mahomes's of the world...which there is only one of....

hotboyz said:

We only start 1 QBs 

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Ben & Jerry's said:

I understood that. My point was if you don't secure 2 starters, you will take a zero on your BYE week and if your starter goes down you are screwed. 

You will have to overpay big time to acquire another starter at the only position that will likely have no one available on the wire.

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Disagree here.  You don't need two "quality starters" at the QB position just to cover a bye week.  Are 40 yard passing TD's also worth 9 points?  If so, getting a quality qb is quite important here.  The bonus also really benefits WR's over RB's (like the ppr already didn't do that enough).  So I would target WR's very high.  Since you only have to start 1 RB, I would make this less of a priority.  Sure you could spend your 1st rounder on a RB and then load up on other positions, but there's a good chance the 1st round rb is a bust and your season is toast.

In your first 5 picks I'd get 1QB, 1RB, 3WR if it were me.  No order necessarily, just whatever falls and whatever value is there.  If a 40 yard passing TD is worth 9 points then Mahommes is likely going top pick (If Hill isn't suspended).  I'd aim for WR's in the early rounds, and make sure to land 1 good QB that has a big arm and fast wr's.

Thanks this will be a interesting change 

Deamon said:

Disagree here.  You don't need two "quality starters" at the QB position just to cover a bye week.  Are 40 yard passing TD's also worth 9 points?  If so, getting a quality qb is quite important here.  The bonus also really benefits WR's over RB's (like the ppr already didn't do that enough).  So I would target WR's very high.  Since you only have to start 1 RB, I would make this less of a priority.  Sure you could spend your 1st rounder on a RB and then load up on other positions, but there's a good chance the 1st round rb is a bust and your season is toast.

In your first 5 picks I'd get 1QB, 1RB, 3WR if it were me.  No order necessarily, just whatever falls and whatever value is there.  If a 40 yard passing TD is worth 9 points then Mahommes is likely going top pick (If Hill isn't suspended).  I'd aim for WR's in the early rounds, and make sure to land 1 good QB that has a big arm and fast wr's.

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That’s my one concern usually I’m a draft a QBs late guy but not sure how long i can wait in a 14 teamer. Yes Qb score more in my league, yes all passing td 40 yds or more are 9 Pts, but I kind of think that’s relative all QBs will score more. Another concern is deciding what to attack 1st rb or Wr. Looking at top 70 flex players (rb and wr) over last 3 yrs in my league on avg it’s about 29 RB and 41 Wr so my thinking Rb more scarce def need to get at least 1 early I think

hotboyz said:

Since it’s the off-season hopefully it’s ok to ask this here.  My league will be moving from a 12 team PPR redraft league to 14 team PPR, for those that have played in both what do you see as the biggest differences and biggest challenges??

Another thing that makes my league interesting we only start 1 Rb 1 Wr 1 Te 3 flex Rb/Wr/Te  with all TDS worth 6 pts. But 9pts for TDS over 40 yards. With these settings would you rather draft in beggining middle or end?

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Doesn't matter. We have had 14 teams on and off and people have won from every slot. A lot comes down to those 1st two picks not getting hurt and performing up to their draft slot AND the WW pickups during the season.

hotboyz said:

That’s my one concern usually I’m a draft a QBs late guy but not sure how long i can wait in a 14 teamer. Yes Qb score more in my league, yes all passing td 40 yds or more are 9 Pts, but I kind of think that’s relative all QBs will score more. Another concern is deciding what to attack 1st rb or Wr. Looking at top 70 flex players (rb and wr) over last 3 yrs in my league on avg it’s about 29 RB and 41 Wr so my thinking Rb more scarce def need to get at least 1 early I think

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Right thinking, wrong conclusion. You should get one stud WR and then back up the truck on RBs the next few rounds.

In straight PPR, you're right that the crossover point tends to be around RB28 = WR42, e.g. in a 14-teamer, a low-end RB2 scores about the same as a low-end WR3. The difference - which you won't notice just looking at season-long totals - is that on a week-in, week-out basis the bottom drops out of RB scoring after that.

What I mean is that the list of WRs that consistently average 9-10ppg in PPR is reallllllly long, and you can get them well into the double-digit rounds. But if you look at the weekly scoring of the RBs who "totalled" that on the season (150-160 pts), most of them are part-season wonders ... starters who got hurt, or backups who stepped up. In 2018, Cook, Ingram, Michel, Doug Martin, Mike Davis, and Fournette all finished between RB30-40 - but few if any of them were drafted in that range. It's actually fairly difficult to find a consistent 9ppg at the RB position - a random sample of mid-round RBs on, say, Week 8 will find more of them scoring either 0ppg or 15ppg than 8-9.

Knowing that, you'll probably want to play 4RB/1WR in your format, which means you should gear your draft around landing one stud WR and then trying to land four starting RBs. That latter part won't be easy, and you'll need to throw a ton of early draft capital at it to make that happen. Thus my suggestion on strategy.

Mr. Irrelevant said:

Right thinking, wrong conclusion. You should get one stud WR and then back up the truck on RBs the next few rounds.

In straight PPR, you're right that the crossover point tends to be around RB28 = WR42, e.g. in a 14-teamer, a low-end RB2 scores about the same as a low-end WR3. The difference - which you won't notice just looking at season-long totals - is that on a week-in, week-out basis the bottom drops out of RB scoring after that.

What I mean is that the list of WRs that consistently average 9-10ppg in PPR is reallllllly long, and you can get them well into the double-digit rounds. But if you look at the weekly scoring of the RBs who "totalled" that on the season (150-160 pts), most of them are part-season wonders ... starters who got hurt, or backups who stepped up. In 2018, Cook, Ingram, Michel, Doug Martin, Mike Davis, and Fournette all finished between RB30-40 - but few if any of them were drafted in that range. It's actually fairly difficult to find a consistent 9ppg at the RB position - a random sample of mid-round RBs on, say, Week 8 will find more of them scoring either 0ppg or 15ppg than 8-9.

Knowing that, you'll probably want to play 4RB/1WR in your format, which means you should gear your draft around landing one stud WR and then trying to land four starting RBs. That latter part won't be easy, and you'll need to throw a ton of early draft capital at it to make that happen. Thus my suggestion on strategy.

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Thanks for your reply. Looking at what you said and you’re right the rbs that give you those 10-11 Ppg weekly are usually back ups and reserve running backs or in jury replacements. With that being said doesnt that almost scream to consider going with a zero Rb approach?? Get as many top tier Wr as you can get in first 4 RD then stockpile the middle of the road running backs and unheralded rookies. 

hotboyz said:

Thanks for your reply. Looking at what you said and you’re right the rbs that give you those 10-11 Ppg weekly are usually back ups and reserve running backs or in jury replacements. With that being said doesnt that almost scream to consider going with a zero Rb approach?? Get as many top tier Wr as you can get in first 4 RD then stockpile the middle of the road running backs and unheralded rookies. 

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With 3 flex spots you can win with a bunch of different strategies ... but even so I wouldn't go full zero-RB. Since you only have to start 1 RB and 1 WR, almost everyone's going to have a big name in both those slots, so if you don't hit big on one of your later picks you're gonna be leaking points at RB1 all year long. 

But sure, you could jump on a single RB early, pound WRs for a few rounds, and wait until the mid-rounds to go back and grab some backups and rookies at RB. Two reasons why I think that's not quite as effective though: (a) RBs get injured more often than WRs so you've got the same problem as the zero-RB guy if your stud goes down, (b) even in full-PPR leagues, it's always easier to trade away an RB1 for a big WR upgrade than vice versa. The guy sitting on the RB stockpile can always say to the RB-needy guy, "Hey, I don't need this trade, I can always start the last WR on my bench and get 8-9 points next week ... good luck doing that at RB".

This will be my most difficult yr with our very unique lineup requirements coming up with a plan of attack in a 14 tm league is a challenge!

I have been in both a 20 team and a 14 team league for a while. 14 is not THAT different than 12, it goes a little deeper, but it is mostly the same. Mine has traditional roster spots (QB, 2WR, 2RB, TE, Flex, D, K) and it works ok. I feel like deeper leagues reward good drafting more, in a 10 team league everyone has an allstar team. Now with 20... I hope you like drafting a backup QB in the 5th round so you are not stuck trading a RB2 for the worst QB in the league. 

Don’t think I’d play in a 20 team league

Finding 2 more quality players

Funny

hotboyz said:

Since it’s the off-season hopefully it’s ok to ask this here.  My league will be moving from a 12 team PPR redraft league to 14 team PPR, for those that have played in both what do you see as the biggest differences and biggest challenges??

Another thing that makes my league interesting we only start 1 Rb 1 Wr 1 Te 3 flex Rb/Wr/Te  with all TDS worth 6 pts. But 9pts for TDS over 40 yards. With these settings would you rather draft in beggining middle or end?

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One thing I'm seeing more and more better players do is move to more "non standard" formats or scoring like this. With so much generic information out there designed specifically for a "common" league, moving to something unique can give an edge to people that understand value. 

And this is a great question moving from 12 to 14 teams. And a perfect illustration of how supply and demand affect value. Obviously, with another two teams to fill and assuming the format was the same as your 14 team league, you're going to have a significantly increased "demand" on players. With the same "supply". Meaning the value for the better players goes up. 

Of course I'm biased but I'd play around with the Draft Dominator here and also the 6,750 cheatsheets. https://footballguys.com/draft-kit.php

You can get see how changing different parameters affects the value. Good luck.

Thank you Mr Bryant I’ve def been using the Draft Dominator but I have to say our unique lineup requirements and scoring makes it very challenging to find a edge