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The best drama in television history (1 Viewer)

I think this is the best drama of all time...

  • The Sopranos

    Votes: 24 9.8%

  • Breaking Bad

    Votes: 90 36.6%

  • The Wire

    Votes: 53 21.5%

  • Game of Thrones

    Votes: 39 15.9%

  • Mad Men

    Votes: 10 4.1%

  • Other

    Votes: 30 12.2%
  • Total voters
    246
Gr00vus said:
It really goes downhill each season, and the implausibility/plot holes increase each season.
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I made it through the pilot mini-series for BSG, and never felt compelled to watch any more of it...

 
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Rove! said:
I made it through the pilot mini-series for BSG, and never felt compelled to watch any more of it...
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Probably better off. There were a few good episodes along the way, but overall the story became somewhat ridiculous (even for sci-fi).

 
Psychopav said:
I think they stuck the landing and I do not think there was a lack of planning and foresight.  (still talking about BSG)
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I wouldn't say it was an absolute lack of planning, and if you felt they stuck the landing, awesome, but when I wrote that, I was thinking back to an interview with Ron Moore from when the show was just about to wrap up. There will inevitably be stuff that writers figure out as they go, and in many cases those are things that end up working beautifully, but I didn't find it encouraging when Moore says that one of the crucial plot twists in the series, with far-reaching ramifications, was something they came up with essentially on the fly in the writers' room to add some gravitas to a season finale.

Also from the link:

Q: One of the things I find interesting is, on "Lost," Cuse and Lindelof have always claimed they have a master plan and know where it's all going, and fandom has been skeptical at times and said, "Yeah, right." Whereas you've been pretty candid about the fact that you'll throw stuff out there and figure it out later, and yet people assume there's some cohesive plan to "Galactica." How do you pull that off to make it seem like there's a plan?

A (Moore): To me, that's the job. The job is to figure a way along in a story but make it all feel like it's seamless, to make it all make sense. Hopefully, if I've done my job right, when all is said and done and the story's been put to bed and you've got the entire set of DVDs before you and you watch them, that it feels like a cohesive narrative -- that stuff we just threw up and decided to take a flier on without ultimately knowing where it would pay off, when you look at in hindsight, that it all tracks. You're painting this large painting on this big canvas, and you may not know what it's going to look like at the end, but when you're done, you want it to feel like it's a cohesive vision and makes perfect sense.

 
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People not digging The Wire but loving these other shows, what don't you like about it? 

I could see production value throwing people off a bit, but after a season I am amazed at how intricate and well written it is.  Tons of moving pieces, you have to pay attention, they get you caring for drug dealers/drug addicts/a hole cops all in the same hour.  Plus plenty of characters to hate - the boss in homicide, the smarmy lawyer for the bad guys, etc.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
People not digging The Wire but loving these other shows, what don't you like about it? 

I could see production value throwing people off a bit, but after a season I am amazed at how intricate and well written it is.  Tons of moving pieces, you have to pay attention, they get you caring for drug dealers/drug addicts/a hole cops all in the same hour.  Plus plenty of characters to hate - the boss in homicide, the smarmy lawyer for the bad guys, etc.  
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It gets better. Jealous.

 
Abrantes said:
I wouldn't say it was an absolute lack of planning, and if you felt they stuck the landing, awesome, but when I wrote that, I was thinking back to an interview with Ron Moore from when the show was just about to wrap up. There will inevitably be stuff that writers figure out as they go, and in many cases those are things that end up working beautifully, but I didn't find it encouraging when Moore says that one of the crucial plot twists in the series, with far-reaching ramifications, was something they came up with essentially on the fly in the writers' room to add some gravitas to a season finale.

Also from the link:

Q: One of the things I find interesting is, on "Lost," Cuse and Lindelof have always claimed they have a master plan and know where it's all going, and fandom has been skeptical at times and said, "Yeah, right." Whereas you've been pretty candid about the fact that you'll throw stuff out there and figure it out later, and yet people assume there's some cohesive plan to "Galactica." How do you pull that off to make it seem like there's a plan?

A (Moore): To me, that's the job. The job is to figure a way along in a story but make it all feel like it's seamless, to make it all make sense. Hopefully, if I've done my job right, when all is said and done and the story's been put to bed and you've got the entire set of DVDs before you and you watch them, that it feels like a cohesive narrative -- that stuff we just threw up and decided to take a flier on without ultimately knowing where it would pay off, when you look at in hindsight, that it all tracks. You're painting this large painting on this big canvas, and you may not know what it's going to look like at the end, but when you're done, you want it to feel like it's a cohesive vision and makes perfect sense.
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One of the great joys of tv viewing in my lifetime was listening to Moore’s director commentary in the subway after each BSG episode. He put it out as a podcast and talked a lot about the writers’ room and “how the sausage was made.” Great stuff. 

 
KarmaPolice said:
People not digging The Wire but loving these other shows, what don't you like about it? 

I could see production value throwing people off a bit, but after a season I am amazed at how intricate and well written it is.  Tons of moving pieces, you have to pay attention, they get you caring for drug dealers/drug addicts/a hole cops all in the same hour.  Plus plenty of characters to hate - the boss in homicide, the smarmy lawyer for the bad guys, etc.  
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I watched 3 1/2 seasons of The Wire before quiting.  I couldn't name more than 2 character names right now.  Totally boring and annoying to watch.  I didn't care about any of the characters at all.

 
Mister CIA said:
Nobody cares.
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KarmaPolice said:
People not digging The Wire but loving these other shows, what don't you like about it? 

I could see production value throwing people off a bit, but after a season I am amazed at how intricate and well written it is.  Tons of moving pieces, you have to pay attention, they get you caring for drug dealers/drug addicts/a hole cops all in the same hour.  Plus plenty of characters to hate - the boss in homicide, the smarmy lawyer for the bad guys, etc.  
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Wrong

 
My memory of BSG is hazy as I have a tendency to forget details of shows after years have passed...but I do remember that I loved it right to the end.  I also do remember the finale and thought they nailed it.  

 
Don't Noonan said:
I watched 3 1/2 seasons of The Wire before quiting.  I couldn't name more than 2 character names right now.  Totally boring and annoying to watch.  I didn't care about any of the characters at all.
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Sure, but it's either your shtick or you dont pay attention-  aren't you the dude in the GoT thread that cant remember a name or anything that happened one episode before? 

 
KarmaPolice said:
People not digging The Wire but loving these other shows, what don't you like about it? 

I could see production value throwing people off a bit, but after a season I am amazed at how intricate and well written it is.  Tons of moving pieces, you have to pay attention, they get you caring for drug dealers/drug addicts/a hole cops all in the same hour.  Plus plenty of characters to hate - the boss in homicide, the smarmy lawyer for the bad guys, etc.  
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I found that I didn't give a damn about any of the characters, whether they were the "good guys" or "bad guys" (both quoted because there was a lot of gray area as far as who was good and who was bad).  Plus, the pacing seemed completely random, where episodes would end and I would think, "That it?"  I tried several times to get into the show and it just didn't resonate with me. It happens. 

 
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Ghost Rider said:
I found that I didn't give a damn about any of the characters, whether they were the "good guys" or "bad guys" (both quoted because there was a lot of gray area as far as who was good and who was bad).  Plus, the pacing seemed completely random, where episodes would end and I would think, "That it?"  I tried several times to get into the show and it just didn't resonate with me. It happens. 
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Cool.  I am just surprised because it seems to have all the machinations that makes (well, made) GoT great - tons of characters, lots of moving parts.  Imo has the writing and dialogue of Mad Men and Breaking Bad.   Again, I am only through S1, I am just surprised that people would love the rest of the list, but not The Wire is all.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
People not digging The Wire but loving these other shows, what don't you like about it? 

I could see production value throwing people off a bit, but after a season I am amazed at how intricate and well written it is.  Tons of moving pieces, you have to pay attention, they get you caring for drug dealers/drug addicts/a hole cops all in the same hour.  Plus plenty of characters to hate - the boss in homicide, the smarmy lawyer for the bad guys, etc.  
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You see these, McNulty? These are for you.

You know something, Jimmy? You're no good for people, man.

Bubbles is one of the best characters ever put onscreen.

 
KarmaPolice said:
People not digging The Wire but loving these other shows, what don't you like about it? 

I could see production value throwing people off a bit, but after a season I am amazed at how intricate and well written it is.  Tons of moving pieces, you have to pay attention, they get you caring for drug dealers/drug addicts/a hole cops all in the same hour.  Plus plenty of characters to hate - the boss in homicide, the smarmy lawyer for the bad guys, etc.  
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I have quit every David Simon show, from Homicide to Treme, i've ever watched at some point. It's kinda like Spike Lee or Oliver Stone - eventually, even amidst great drama, there's an imposition of viewpoint, of "you must see it my way" that i can barely indulge to get thru a movie but becomes toxic in a series. I've been able to go back after a time and rescue whatever good might be left past my quit point, but it's never a rounded experience for me.

 
It won't likely go in anyone's top 10, but if you want to watch a drama that "kills" the typical prototype of what a drama is and how it progresses w storyline and characters, you should all give Gomorra (on netflix) a shot.

Unfortunately for some of you, it's italian, thus subtitled... But it's the sopranos on coke. The storytelling and psychological angle not near the sopranos, but it's the mob as the mob really is.

 
wikkidpissah said:
I have quit every David Simon show, from Homicide to Treme, i've ever watched at some point. It's kinda like Spike Lee or Oliver Stone - eventually, even amidst great drama, there's an imposition of viewpoint, of "you must see it my way" that i can barely indulge to get thru a movie but becomes toxic in a series. I've been able to go back after a time and rescue whatever good might be left past my quit point, but it's never a rounded experience for me.
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I enjoyed The Deuce. 

Guess I will try the Wire again. 

 
Soulfly3 said:
It won't likely go in anyone's top 10, but if you want to watch a drama that "kills" the typical prototype of what a drama is and how it progresses w storyline and characters, you should all give Gomorra (on netflix) a shot.

Unfortunately for some of you, it's italian, thus subtitled... But it's the sopranos on coke. The storytelling and psychological angle not near the sopranos, but it's the mob as the mob really is.
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I saw the movie, actually -- a while back. I'm not sure if the show is a Fargo-esque type of deal, but the movie was indeed a very good one, if not great. Pretty bleak, but not nihilistic. Lots of crack, IIRC. 

 
rockaction said:
I saw the movie, actually -- a while back. I'm not sure if the show is a Fargo-esque type of deal, but the movie was indeed a very good one, if not great. Pretty bleak, but not nihilistic. Lots of crack, IIRC. 
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never seen the movie, so no idea how closely they relate. 

This focuses almost solely on the internal dialogue/happening w top level mafiosi and mafia relations, and not so much what foot soldiers do day to day. 

 
Soulfly3 said:
never seen the movie, so no idea how closely they relate. 

This focuses almost solely on the internal dialogue/happening w top level mafiosi and mafia relations, and not so much what foot soldiers do day to day. 
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Ah, okay. The movie showed the effects of the mafia on a town through the lives of two barely pubescent boys, IIRC. 

In reading a Wiki article, there's likely a lot more inner workings of the mafia than I remember. I just remember the emphasis on the boys.  

 
When they were airing originally,  my favorite show was whichever happened to be in season, Mad Men or Breaking Bad. Back in those days, if you followed the MM thread, one of our posters (can't remember who, too lazy to look, but mad props to whomever it was) would link tv critic Andy Sepinwall's reviews the day after each ep aired. His reviews were almost supernaturally insightful and drastically increased my appreciation for the show. To the point that when my wife and I rewatched the series, I would search out the old reviews and read them to her after we finished episodes. 

That show was cast, plotted, acted and written so masterfully.

I still prefer the Wire and BB, though.

It's been mentioned, but the Ozymandias ep of BB was the single best hour of tv I've ever witnessed.  Absolute perfection. No show has ever used long periods of silence, well crafted shots and camera movements/angles for exposition as well as Breaking Bad. Tension and dread were practically characters on the show.

 
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KarmaPolice said:
Cool.  I am just surprised because it seems to have all the machinations that makes (well, made) GoT great - tons of characters, lots of moving parts.  Imo has the writing and dialogue of Mad Men and Breaking Bad.   Again, I am only through S1, I am just surprised that people would love the rest of the list, but not The Wire is all.  
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When GoT came out out it was dubbed The Sopranos in Middle Earth but a much better comparison is The Wire in Middle Earth. Like the GoT world has continued to expand as seasons go on, so does The Wire. It becomes a show that’s not about cops and drug dealers but about the entire city of Baltimore. 

 
Ghost Rider said:
I found that I didn't give a damn about any of the characters, whether they were the "good guys" or "bad guys" (both quoted because there was a lot of gray area as far as who was good and who was bad).  Plus, the pacing seemed completely random, where episodes would end and I would think, "That it?"  I tried several times to get into the show and it just didn't resonate with me. It happens. 
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This happened to me before all the hype when it was just a show on HBO with positive reviews.  I'd tried a few times but it didn't move me.  Then Season 4 was on and I decided to sit down and watch it.  Wow.  Turns out this is probably one of the best seasons of any TV shows and it really sucked me in.  I ended up watching The Wire in different order which some may consider blasphemy but it didnt hinder my enjoyment.   Just watch Season 4 and get back to us.  

 
I know it’s been mentioned but I’ll mention it again:

Lonesome Dove, & it’s sequel Streets of Laredo. Written by Larry McMurtry, incredible cast down the line, it’s a set in a certain place in time rarely focused on in recent years (Deadwood aside) and its a labor of love. The landscapes and filming are *beautiful, it’s actual elite cinematography on tv, which is rare.

This feels like one of those football discussions where RBs from the 50s & 60s can’t get their due.

I’ll give Gandolfini’s Tony Soprano as the single best character study.  It’s also hard to remember a single character who embodies the best/worst of humanity. I’ll add that the Carlos Marcello family is/was a known thing around here, and the mafia don as suburbanite concept was very real, though I think Tony lived more ostentatiously than what I know of Marcello.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
I’ll give Gandolfini’s Tony Soprano as the single best character study.  It’s also hard to remember a single character who embodies the best/worst of humanity. I’ll add that the Carlos Marcello family is/was a known thing around here, and the mafia don as suburbanite concept was very real, though I think Tony lived more ostentatiously than what I know of Marcello.
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I would agree with this.   What Galdolfini did with that character was unbelievable.  There have been a lot of tremendous performances in modern day TV drama, but the performances of Gandolfini and Bryan Cranston are big reasons why, for me, The Sopranos and Breaking Bad sit at the top. 

 
matttyl said:
And did you?  What did you think?
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Work has been killing me so not yet. 

Ironically was in London that opening weekend doing work out in the countryside near Bath and the Cotswolds which all looked like it was straight out of the show. Had to travel the following weekend and am now on a vaca so I’ve missed it. 

Reviews are all pretty solid so I’m looking forward to it. 

 
The General said:
Work has been killing me so not yet. 

Ironically was in London that opening weekend doing work out in the countryside near Bath and the Cotswolds which all looked like it was straight out of the show. Had to travel the following weekend and am now on a vaca so I’ve missed it. 

Reviews are all pretty solid so I’m looking forward to it. 
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As am I.  Working my way through an all 6 season rewatch, as it's been a few years.  Didn't know if that was necessary to enjoy the movie or not, though. 

 
matttyl said:
As am I.  Working my way through an all 6 season rewatch, as it's been a few years.  Didn't know if that was necessary to enjoy the movie or not, though. 
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Nice. I doubt it’s required but it will probably help with some of the subtle stuff with the characters that have been forgotten.

Great show. The wife and I power watched it over the course of a couple months. Were legit bummed when we got to the last one.

 
The General said:
Nice. I doubt it’s required but it will probably help with some of the subtle stuff with the characters that have been forgotten.

Great show. The wife and I power watched it over the course of a couple months. Were legit bummed when we got to the last one.
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We're currently finishing up S03.  I'm not real sure why we like it since they always gloss over seemingly dramatic issues as though they're tidied up in between episodes*, but it is enjoyable. 

*An example, in S01 Bates is cast off as a gimp by the other employees and it seems like he's hitting the road before Lord Grantham suddenly pulls him out of the car to stay at Downton.  I'm thinking, "sweet, I'm excited to see how the employees react to this decision."  Nope.  Next episode Bates is pretty much fully assimilated and there's no drama at all.  

 
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Captain Cranks said:
We're currently finishing up S03.  I'm not real sure why we like it since they always gloss over seemingly dramatic issues as though they're tidied up in between episodes, but it is enjoyable. 
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We thought the same thing as we watched it at times.

Also would get through an hour and think well not much happened there. But then we immediately start up the next one :lol:

Relaxing to watch and a handful of great characters. Really well acted.

 
The General said:
We thought the same thing as we watched it at times.

Also would get through an hour and think well not much happened there. But then we immediately start up the next one :lol:

Relaxing to watch and a handful of great characters. Really well acted.
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Yeah...I think that's it.  It's soothing.  It would be a totally different vibe without the English accents.  Professor McGonnagall, errrrrr, Maggie Smith is fantastic.  

 
matttyl said:
As am I.  Working my way through an all 6 season rewatch, as it's been a few years.  Didn't know if that was necessary to enjoy the movie or not, though. 
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I finally saw the movie. 

It was solid. Pretty much like an episode of the show. You definitely don’t need to rewatch the series to enjoy.

 
I'll toss in a few that were great in the first couple seasons but couldn't hold it through their entire run.  Still, the first couple seasons were great.

Nip/Tuck

Rescue Me

 
The General said:
I finally saw the movie. 

It was solid. Pretty much like an episode of the show. You definitely don’t need to rewatch the series to enjoy.
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I finally watched as well 2-3 weeks ago.  It was ok, but too "Disney" for me.  "You get a castle!  And you get a castle!  And you get a castle!"  Everyone had a happy ending. 

What I didn't like was that with episodes, they had a solid hour to get a little story or stories, and also move along the bigger stories.  With the movie, they had 2 hours to get everything in from soup to nuts.  Scenes seemed very short.  Wasn't a lot of development, but it was worth the watch. 

 
KarmaPolice said:
People not digging The Wire but loving these other shows, what don't you like about it? 

I could see production value throwing people off a bit, but after a season I am amazed at how intricate and well written it is.  Tons of moving pieces, you have to pay attention, they get you caring for drug dealers/drug addicts/a hole cops all in the same hour.  Plus plenty of characters to hate - the boss in homicide, the smarmy lawyer for the bad guys, etc.  
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And eventually you even begin to grudgingly respect the characters you hate like Rawls

 
Herb said:
Oh man. If that show could've held up the momentum from the first 2 or 3 seasons, it would be on my short list for GOAT.

Unfortunately,  not only were the last few seasons not great, they downright sucked.
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Agreed 100%.  Was awesome to start...then totally jumped the shark and fast.   Great opening song too.  🙂

 
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