The Most Beautiful Unicorn, Or, The Gary Johnson Voter vs. The Person Who Just Got Left Behind By The Modern GOP (1 Viewer)

You know who they are on this board. The "Gary Johnson voter" and that guy who laments that the modern GOP has just "left him behind."

Who is the more mythical, tragic creature and why? Who has been symbolically hunted to extinction for the aphrodisiac purposes of their dialectical horn?  

Go.  

eta* Thoughts on the reality of it all for those of you lost in a land of enchantment and loneliness: Comic for you for clicking...

Yes, I see it now, I should join the never ending quest to pick the lesser of two progressively worse evils.  I see now that there are only two ways of viewing matters and any look beyond that paradigm is some sort of heresy.  Surely if I would merely conform everything would heal and we would enter a new renaissance. 

I do like the donkey in the cartoon.  Opportunistic creature that one.

BTW, when the Democrats do the predictable and eschew Mayor Momentum, Pragmatic Pete, The Right Honorable Buttigieg, maybe he will go third party and maybe I can vote for him.  Me, I could not vote for Ross Perot, but I did vote for John Anderson.  Johnson, meh, he was a filler, a representation of a third party vote, not a vote of conviction or passion for the man but rather dedication to finding a new paradigm.

I normally vote L knowing full well that it's just a protest vote, but I voted for Johnson because I thought he was legitimately the best candidate in the race.  He was certainly better prepared to govern than Trump, and people also tend to overlook Hillary's all-around incompetence because her ethical lapses tend to get the most attention.

Most likely I'll vote L again in 2020 but pull for the D nominee, but that depends on who the Ds nominate I suppose.

Ditkaless Wonders said:

Yes, I see it now, I should join the never ending quest to pick the lesser of two progressively worse evils.  I see now that there are only two ways of viewing matters and any look beyond that paradigm is some sort of heresy.  Surely if I would merely conform everything would heal and we would enter a new renaissance. 

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I should state that I'm not making fun of true Johnson voters and people who really lament that the modern GOP has left them behind, I'm taking the piss out of the board and the common refrains and claims that each side suspects aren't true. Just having fun. A little meta. I'm also pointing out to those that have been castigating "Gary Johnson voters," and portraying them as being frauds, that they might want to look in the mirror every time they say the modern GOP has left them behind while arguing for every government program and civil rights law in the book, something the GOP hasn't been for since Ike.  

I was actually being sympathetic with the cartoon. There's a perfectly good world, and the promise to keep it going is being perpetrated by a complete fraud. 

eta* It's meant as a bit of a poke, a bit of a fun thread

rockaction said:

I should state that I'm not making fun of true Johnson voters and people who really lament that the modern GOP has left them behind, I'm taking the piss out of the board and the common refrains and claims that each side suspects aren't true. Just having fun. A little meta. I'm also pointing out to those that have been castigating "Gary Johnson voters" and portraying them as being frauds might want to look in the mirror every time they say the modern GOP has left them behind while arguing for every government program in the book, something the GOP hasn't been for since Ike.  

I was actually being sympathetic with the cartoon. There's a perfectly good world, and the promise to keep it going is being perpetrated by a complete fraud. 

eta* It's meant as a bit of a poke, a bit of a fun thread

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As I say, I love the Donkey in the cartoon.  He's opportunistic and naughty.  If I reacted a bit too strongly to your opening post I apologize.  I have much respect for your postings around here.

Ditkaless Wonders said:

As I say, I love the Donkey in the cartoon.  He's opportunistic and naughty.  If I reacted a bit too strongly to your opening post I apologize.  I have much respect for your postings around here.

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Thanks, DW. Glad you're posting. Likewise with the sentiment, and not just saying that.  

rockaction said:

You know who they are on this board. The "Gary Johnson voter" and that guy who laments that the modern GOP has just "left him behind."

Who is the more mythical, tragic creature and why? Who has been symbolically hunted to extinction for the aphrodisiac purposes of their dialectical horn?  

Go.  

eta* Thoughts on the reality of it all for those of you lost in a land of enchantment and loneliness: Comic for you for clicking...

Click to expand...

As I see it, which is in no way whatsoever meant to indicate I am correct, is that the "left behind" lamenter is the more mythical creature. Not so sure this creature is tragic though. Certainly not symbolically hunted to extinction. My reason for believing this is quite simple: I've yet to actually encounter one of these lamenters but have encountered Gary Johnson voters.

Ruffrodys05 said:

As I see it, which is in no way whatsoever meant to indicate I am correct, is that the "left behind" lamenter is the more mythical creature. Not so sure this creature is tragic though. Certainly not symbolically hunted to extinction. My reason for believing this is quite simple: I've yet to actually encounter one of these lamenters but have encountered Gary Johnson voters.

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Fair enough. I think in this PSF, though, I've heard that refrain a bunch. The theory goes that if the modern GOP were thoughtful and measured like the older GOP of the decades before the aughts that they'd still vote GOP. But then those same people make arguments for certain programs and laws, and I doubt that these people ever would have been at home in the GOP. I could also be wrong, but it's something I thought I noticed.  

rockaction said:

Fair enough. I think in this PSF, though, I've heard that refrain a bunch. The theory goes that if the modern GOP were thoughtful and measured like the older GOP of the decades before the aughts that they'd still vote GOP. But then those same people make arguments for certain programs and laws, and I doubt that these people ever would have been at home in the GOP. I could also be wrong, but it's something I thought I noticed.  

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I see your point also. And might I add, I may have actually encountered one or two of these lamenters here in the PSF but did not have the intellectually nuanced capacity to realize it.

Ditkaless Wonders said:

I do like the donkey in the cartoon.  Opportunistic creature that one.

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It’s funny because how did he tie the carrot in place? HE LACKS OPPOSABLE THUMBS!!!

I'm a true Gary Johnson voter. I loved what DW and IK had to say; it summed up my feelings pretty well. I am socially very, very liberal. I think people should leave each other alone and mind their own business, as long as their lifestyle isn't harming someone else. I believe strongly in the rights of the individual, versus the mandates of society.

i am also very fiscally conservative. I feel like taxes can be a yoke placed on the neck of the people, when taken too far. I believe that people acting in their own self- interest create the ideal conditions for a capitalist society, which, for all its ills, is the best system in the world. I believe strongly that government bureacracy is a self-feeding, monolithic behemoth of mediocrity, that needs to actively be trimmed and held in chack against graft, corruption and complacency. There are many "common good" categories that only make sense to fall in the purview of a federal government. But those issues need to be pruned back to the barest minimum: defense, environmental protections, corporate and financial watchdogs, food and drug safety, etc.

I balance these ideas with the belief that a great nation of great people (and I believe the U.S. is that) will raise the standard of living of it's most disenfranchised peoples and provide an opportunity at a good life. This is a moral stance, not a political one, based on the fact that the benefits of a capitalistic society are supported on the backs of a large segment of people being exploited as cheap labor. My sense of justice wants to see them treated charitably, but also in a way that fosters self-reliance and opportunity, rather than reliance on government. Any candidate, from any party, that most closely matches those ideals gets my vote.

Johnson was not a great candidate. Let's be real, he wasn't even a good candidate. I would have held my nose and voted Hillary in the last election, if I didn't live in California. Meaning, if I thought my vote would've had any impact, other than as a protest. 

ProstheticRGK said:

I'm a true Gary Johnson voter. I loved what DW and IK had to say; it summed up my feelings pretty well. I am socially very, very liberal. I think people should leave each other alone and mind their own business, as long as their lifestyle isn't harming someone else. I believe strongly in the rights of the individual, versus the mandates of society.

Johnson was not a great candidate. Let's be real, he wasn't even a good candidate. I would have held my nose and voted Hillary in the last election, if I didn't live in California. Meaning, if I thought my vote would've had any impact, other than as a protest. 

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Yes, I was more making a comment about the PSF and the arguments made back and forth than anything. It's sort of a refrain whereby those people most vehemently opposed to Trump accuse "Johnson voters" of being closet Trumpers. I wanted to point out that there are a lot of people complaining about the modern GOP claiming they were once GOP members that they could be accused of the same sort of duplicity. 

Like I said, I have no problem with Gary Johnson voters, and might have voted for him if forced to vote. I'm a libertarian at heart, but a fusionist between the right and libertarianism with a dollop of left-libertarianism. I'm a classical liberal, really. You and I sound very similar politically.  

I, too, would likely have held my nose and voted for Clinton if I didn't live in California, but I sat this election out and didn't vote. (I do not believe voting is imperative in all cases, nor a civic duty, but that's another discussion for another time.) Anyway, it's a board comment more than a comment about third party voting. 

IvanKaramazov said:

I normally vote L knowing full well that it's just a protest vote, but I voted for Johnson because I thought he was legitimately the best candidate in the race.  He was certainly better prepared to govern than Trump, and people also tend to overlook Hillary's all-around incompetence because her ethical lapses tend to get the most attention.

Most likely I'll vote L again in 2020 but pull for the D nominee, but that depends on who the Ds nominate I suppose.

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This was legitimately me until Trump.  It might be the first time ever I vote D as a cancel vote and I'm not sure how I feel about that.  I'm not wading through all the "what ifs" of the primary.  I can emphatically tell you I will absolutely not vote for Trump.  He's a disgusting human being in my view and that's before I even get to his policies (or lack thereof).

rockaction said:

Yes, I was more making a comment about the PSF and the arguments made back and forth than anything. It's sort of a refrain whereby those people most vehemently opposed to Trump accuse "Johnson voters" of being closet Trumpers. I wanted to point out that there are a lot of people complaining about the modern GOP claiming they were once GOP members that they could be accused of the same sort of duplicity. 

Like I said, I have no problem with Gary Johnson voters, and might have voted for him if forced to vote. I'm a libertarian at heart, but a fusionist between the right and libertarianism with a dollop of left-libertarianism. I'm a classical liberal, really. You and I sound very similar politically.  

I, too, would likely have held my nose and voted for Clinton if I didn't live in California, but I sat this election out and didn't vote. (I do not believe voting is imperative in all cases, nor a civic duty, but that's another discussion for another time.) Anyway, it's a board comment more than a comment about third party voting. 

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Yeah, rock, I was picking up what you were putting down. And I liked the cartoon. I just felt like writing some stuff this morning.

The tongue-in-cheek "Gary Johnson voter" schtick does get in my craw, a little, too. I'm not responsible for this monkey crap fight.

I think this his happening at both ends of the spectrum.   The modern Democratic party is leaving me behind.  Although I don't object entirely to the shift to the left, I do have a problem with creating lines that make bipartisan compromise impossible.   I'd rather see a more moderate Presidential candidate and leave domestic policy-making to Congress, with hopes that our system produces meaningful legislation that both sides can live with, rather than just huge swings of the pendulum that result in nothing getting done at all.  I actually have a bigger problem with McConnell and his single-minded party over country approach than I do with Trump.   I don't want to see that from Democrats, but that's where we're headed.   

I hope someday there is a viable third party, or at least a viable third-party candidate.  

I used to be a Green Party member, but they definitely left me behind.   They don't even have sound policies on the environment at this point.   Just a random mess of disjointed ideas.  Nader was a bad candidate, but Jill Stein was just a wackjob.  

-fish- said:

I'd rather see a more moderate Presidential candidate and leave domestic policy-making to Congress, with hopes that our system produces meaningful legislation that both sides can live with, rather than just huge swings of the pendulum that result in nothing getting done at all.

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I'd be curious to know what you think of the theory -- one that I subscribe to -- that a lot of our problems are precisely that Congress essentially delegates their authority to the executive branch. In other words, that Congress merely promulgates goals and then expects the executive to not only enforce the means to get to the standards set, but also to do Congress's job in promulgating the standards themselves, e.g., clean water, clean air, etc.  

rockaction said:

You know who they are on this board. The "Gary Johnson voter" and that guy who laments that the modern GOP has just "left him behind."

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This is me.  I'm real.  And spectacular.

Edited to add:  I actually changed from R to D, registered, in January.  I didn't know it back in the day, but GHWB was probably my "best president".  At the time I thought he was a wimp.  At the time I was a Reagan fanboy.  I was 18.  I still like Ronnie, but George was the better man and president.  I knew nothing of Gary Johnson.  For me he wasn't Hillary and he wasn't Donald, and I live in Maryland so why the F not?

Someone else mentioned that the D's were leaving them behind.  This is my Aunt, who my entire lifetime has been quite liberal.  She doesn't think much of the leftward shift, because much of it infantilizes people.  My mind would be utterly blown if her and I cross streams politically, but I can see it happening.

My rock-ribbed Republican wife is considering swapping parties because of (a) Trump (b) medical cannabis and (c) the Party of Stupidity in Science thing.  Shocking to me, given her upbringing and her black/white nature on issues.

For all this to occur, we must be at an inflection point, or a political singularity, or something.

rockaction said:

I'd be curious to know what you think of the theory -- one that I subscribe to -- that a lot of our problems are precisely that Congress essentially delegates their authority to the executive branch. In other words, that Congress merely promulgates goals and then expects the executive to not only enforce the means to get to the standards set, but also to do Congress's job in promulgating the standards themselves, e.g., clean water, clean air, etc.  

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I agree wholeheartedly.  

So I'm neither of those but the Democratic party is coming back my way.

I want to say something about a real myth. The much cried for bipartisanship. It can't be done right now. The GOP is not filled with honest actors and they don't respect the institution. They've proven this. They only care about a couple of things. Power and money. They want the power to inflict their own completely hypocritical return to the white christian in power 50s mentality on the nation. And the money is self explanatory.

You know Bob Dole could be a real hard guy to deal with. But you could get a genuine deal and miracle of miracles you could trust him to keep his end of the bargain. Same with HW. Same with a lot of that last generation of Republicans. I didn't agree with them but I could at least have some respect for them and think of them as honest partners. These folks today? Wouldn't trust them as far as I can throw them and so can't deal with them. If they really want some bipartisanship, spoiler they don't, then we need some Republicans like we used to have. 

Ditkaless Wonders said:

Yes, I see it now, I should join the never ending quest to pick the lesser of two progressively worse evils.  I see now that there are only two ways of viewing matters and any look beyond that paradigm is some sort of heresy.  Surely if I would merely conform everything would heal and we would enter a new renaissance. 

I do like the donkey in the cartoon.  Opportunistic creature that one.

BTW, when the Democrats do the predictable and eschew Mayor Momentum, Pragmatic Pete, The Right Honorable Buttigieg, maybe he will go third party and maybe I can vote for him.  Me, I could not vote for Ross Perot, but I did vote for John Anderson.  Johnson, meh, he was a filler, a representation of a third party vote, not a vote of conviction or passion for the man but rather dedication to finding a new paradigm.

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Caveat: I am a suicide survivor and it colors my world view. 

I believe that if you keep showing up every day, no matter how good or how bad your luck is, it will change.  

I believe voting for a candidate who could actually be elected and is even slightly better than the other electable candidate is “showing up.”  

Others may feel differently. I do not begrudge them that feeling.

I believe that picking someone who even prolongs the decline of the country by five minutes (or promotes its rise by a minuscule amount) over the other candidate is an act that makes a difference. 

rockaction said:

I'd be curious to know what you think of the theory -- one that I subscribe to -- that a lot of our problems are precisely that Congress essentially delegates their authority to the executive branch. In other words, that Congress merely promulgates goals and then expects the executive to not only enforce the means to get to the standards set, but also to do Congress's job in promulgating the standards themselves, e.g., clean water, clean air, etc.  

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The President should be a moral leader, strong voice in international discussion and negotiation, and complete figurehead with little power other than the bully pulpit for domestic policy. 

proteus126 said:

This is me.  I'm real.  And spectacular.

Edited to add:  I actually changed from R to D, registered, in January.  I didn't know it back in the day, but GHWB was probably my "best president".  At the time I thought he was a wimp.  At the time I was a Reagan fanboy.  I was 18.  I still like Ronnie, but George was the better man and president.  I knew nothing of Gary Johnson.  For me he wasn't Hillary and he wasn't Donald, and I live in Maryland so why the F not?

Someone else mentioned that the D's were leaving them behind.  This is my Aunt, who my entire lifetime has been quite liberal.  She doesn't think much of the leftward shift, because much of it infantilizes people.  My mind would be utterly blown if her and I cross streams politically, but I can see it happening.

My rock-ribbed Republican wife is considering swapping parties because of (a) Trump (b) medical cannabis and (c) the Party of Stupidity in Science thing.  Shocking to me, given her upbringing and her black/white nature on issues.

For all this to occur, we must be at an inflection point, or a political singularity, or something.

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I overall (with some exceptions) like HW as well.  And I’m nowhere near as liberal as people on this board seem to think I am. But yes, I’m considering registering as a Democrat instead of Independent. Crazy. 

Henry Ford said:

Caveat: I am a suicide survivor and it colors my world view. 

I believe that if you keep showing up every day, no matter how good or how bad your luck is, it will change.  

I believe voting for a candidate who could actually be elected and is even slightly better than the other electable candidate is “showing up.”  

Others may feel differently. I do not begrudge them that feeling.

I believe that picking someone who even prolongs the decline of the country by five minutes (or promotes its rise by a minuscule amount) over the other candidate is an act that makes a difference. 

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This put me in mind of a Grateful Dead lyric.

Give me five, I'm still alive.

Ain't no luck, I learned to duck.

At our age we have learned to duck, and of course the lessons learned color our views.   

Henry Ford said:

I believe that picking someone who even prolongs the decline of the country by five minutes (or promotes its rise by a minuscule amount) over the other candidate is an act that makes a difference. 

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If "making a difference" is the goal, then folks voting in non-battleground states could pretty much do what they pleased in 2016.  That was my thought process, anyway.  Was hoping that the 3rd party got enough votes to get access to better funding going forward.  Didn't happen, of course.