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Do you agree with the View (1 Viewer)

supermike80

supermike80

Footballguy
I saw a quick article on CNN about some slap fight between Joy Behar and McCain.

Seems Behar's argument is we can stop the migration to the US by providing central american countries with free things.

Free housing etc..

The exact quote was    "That's the way to solve the problem — keep them there, happy," Behar said. "Give them a house, give them food, help them, help their children."

Is this the solution?  Or would that cost more than just letting them come here--at least we get more labor out of the deal.

 
supermike80 said:
I saw a quick article on CNN about some slap fight between Joy Behar and McCain.

Seems Behar's argument is we can stop the migration to the US by providing central american countries with free things.
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What you're describing is foreign aid. We give lots of that to countries all around the world, and we don't just do it to make ourselves feel better. The notion that using aid to help less developed countries is in our own long-term interest seems such an obvious truism that I honestly can't even believe I have to explain it to you.

 
zftcg said:
What you're describing is foreign aid. We give lots of that to countries all around the world, and we don't just do it to make ourselves feel better. The notion that using aid to help less developed countries is in our own long-term interest seems such an obvious truism that I honestly can't even believe I have to explain it to you.
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Here we go again.  Welcome to this forum.

I MADE NO JUDGMENTS!! I asked what you all think of what Joy said.   

What the heck is wrong with you people?  Are you at all capable of just discussing things?  Why does this happen in every single thread?

 
supermike80 said:
Here we go again.  Welcome to this forum.

I MADE NO JUDGMENTS!! I asked what you all think of what Joy said.   

What the heck is wrong with you people?  Are you at all capable of just discussing things?  Why does this happen in every single thread?
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Yeah, I don't know how in the world I assumed you were making judgments when you used the phrase "free things". Obviously you only meant that in the purely neutral sense.  :rolleyes:

 
zftcg said:
Yeah, I don't know how in the world I assumed you were making judgments when you used the phrase "free things". Obviously you only meant that in the purely neutral sense.  :rolleyes:
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I used the phrase because it's exactly what she said..give them houses, give them food.

Does that not count as "free things"

So i am going to go ahead and say yes, you agree with Behar.  It really is all you had to say, instead of being a bag

 
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I agree with her. But not just because of the migrants. It’s to our best interests to stabilize these countries if we can- for trade, for national security, for all sorts of reasons. In addition we have a moral responsibility to do so, because many of the problems in El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatamala are a direct result of a history of American support of corrupt and inept leadership. 

And the other reason these nations are suffering is drought due to climate change, which again is largely our responsibility. And that situation is only going to get worse. 

 
timschochet said:
I agree with her. But not just because of the migrants. It’s to our best interests to stabilize these countries if we can- for trade, for national security, for all sorts of reasons. In addition we have a moral responsibility to do so, because many of the problems in El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatamala are a direct result of a history of American support of corrupt and inept leadership. 

And the other reason these nations are suffering is drought due to climate change, which again is largely our responsibility. And that situation is only going to get worse. 
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Do we know, and this is a serious question, if countries like China support Central America as well?   I think the climate change point should be shouldered by all "wealthy" nations.  or is it expected that the US will carry this load.

 
supermike80 said:
Do we know, and this is a serious question, if countries like China support Central America as well?   I think the climate change point should be shouldered by all "wealthy" nations.  or is it expected that the US will carry this load.
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They’re not largely, but if we don’t there’s a chance that foreign powers like China and Russia will.

 
supermike80 said:
Do we know, and this is a serious question, if countries like China support Central America as well?   I think the climate change point should be shouldered by all "wealthy" nations.  or is it expected that the US will carry this load.
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I have no idea but I suspect that aid to Central America is far more in our bailiwick than theirs. I also think we would not prefer them to get too involved (see the Monroe Doctrine.) 

 
supermike80 said:
I used the phrase because it's exactly what she said..give them houses, give them food.

Does that not count as "free things"

So i am going to go ahead and say yes, you agree with Behar.  It really is all you had to say, instead of being a bag
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Clearly what she was talking about was giving foreign aid. If you wanted to accurately describe what she was saying, you would have used that phrase. I have never in my life heard someone refer to foreign aid as "free things". I have heard lots of conservatives use terms like that to describe benefits that primarily go to minorities. (And for the record, no, I'm not saying you're a racist. I have no idea why you used the term. But don't insult our intelligence by telling me it was a purely descriptive phrase.)

Look, we all know you're a conservative, so if you start a thread you're probably arguing from a conservative point of view. Nothing wrong with that. But drop the "Shucks, I'm just askin' questions!" schtick.

 
timschochet said:
Really? I hear it all the time, mostly on conservative talk radio. It’s absurd of course, but it’s also a standard talking point. 
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I guess I don't listen to enough conservative talk radio (or maybe you listen to too much?)

Anyway, that pretty much proves my point about it being a loaded term.

 
The Monroe doctrine ...

Is that the one where if you let the subway train blow your skirt up you become famous, or the one about non-interference in Our hemisphere?

 
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timschochet said:
I have no idea but I suspect that aid to Central America is far more in our bailiwick than theirs. I also think we would not prefer them to get too involved (see the Monroe Doctrine.) 
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One of the long-term dangers of Trump's foreign policy is that the US will give up its moral leadership and China will fill the void with amoral leadership.

 
zftcg said:
Clearly what she was talking about was giving foreign aid. If you wanted to accurately describe what she was saying, you would have used that phrase. I have never in my life heard someone refer to foreign aid as "free things". I have heard lots of conservatives use terms like that to describe benefits that primarily go to minorities. (And for the record, no, I'm not saying you're a racist. I have no idea why you used the term. But don't insult our intelligence by telling me it was a purely descriptive phrase.)

Look, we all know you're a conservative, so if you start a thread you're probably arguing from a conservative point of view. Nothing wrong with that. But drop the "Shucks, I'm just askin' questions!" schtick.
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I quoted her directly.  I cant do more than that.  

I really didnt make this thread to discuss what she meant.  Get over your hatred of conservatives and your anger and just try to answer the question.  

You've spent a lot of time going crazy over the words and yet have failed to reply. 

Do you have an opinion?  Or do you want to just be angry and hate more?

You are a great example of everything wrong with this place. 

 
I think she has a point.  I've been saying something similar for a long time now.  I think one of the best ways to get people to stay where they are is to improve their living conditions.  If they had good living conditions with good paying jobs and knew they could be safe then there would be no reason to flee.  The problem is that it's not our country to run.

 
I think giving foreign aid or "free things" is the right thing to do.  The tough part is to make sure it is going to the people that need it and not going to corrupt leaders and/or black market.

I certainly don't agree with President Trump that cutting off foreign aid and closing our borders to those seeking asylum is the answer to immigration problems.

 
supermike80 said:
I quoted her directly.  I cant do more than that.  

I really didnt make this thread to discuss what she meant.  Get over your hatred of conservatives and your anger and just try to answer the question.  

You've spent a lot of time going crazy over the words and yet have failed to reply. 

Do you have an opinion?  Or do you want to just be angry and hate more?

You are a great example of everything wrong with this place. 
Click to expand...
This post is actually a far better example. 

 
supermike80 said:
I saw a quick article on CNN about some slap fight between Joy Behar and McCain.

Seems Behar's argument is we can stop the migration to the US by providing central american countries with free things.

Free housing etc..

The exact quote was    "That's the way to solve the problem — keep them there, happy," Behar said. "Give them a house, give them food, help them, help their children."

Is this the solution?  Or would that cost more than just letting them come here--at least we get more labor out of the deal.
Click to expand...
Do I agree that capitalism is better than communism, and that it is in our best interest to use economic aid to push vulnerable countries towards capitalism? Yes.

 
supermike80 said:
I quoted her directly.  I cant do more than that.  

I really didnt make this thread to discuss what she meant.  Get over your hatred of conservatives and your anger and just try to answer the question.  

You've spent a lot of time going crazy over the words and yet have failed to reply. 

Do you have an opinion?  Or do you want to just be angry and hate more?

You are a great example of everything wrong with this place. 
Click to expand...
She did not use the phrase "free things", that was your editorializing. And I did give you my opinion in my original post when I said that foreign aid contributes to our long-term security. It's not my fault you threw a hissy fit and failed to actually read it.

 
supermike80 said:
Do we know, and this is a serious question, if countries like China support Central America as well?   I think the climate change point should be shouldered by all "wealthy" nations.  or is it expected that the US will carry this load.
Click to expand...
i am fairly sure that china has made a lot of investments in Africa (though surely not just out of the goodness of their hearts).

 
According to a 2017 study, described as “The most detailed study so far of Chinese aid,” by AidData, between 2000 and 2014 China gave about $75 billion, and lent about $275 billion — compared to $424 billion given by America during the same period.[5] A fifth of this Chinese aid, $75 billion, was in the form of grants (about equivalent to Britain’s), while the rest was concessional lending at below-market interest rates.[5]

There is an African focus with about 45% of aid going to African countries in 2009.[10] This is argued to be the result of China's increasing natural resources stake in Africa.[11]
Click to expand...

 
zftcg said:
She did not use the phrase "free things", that was your editorializing. And I did give you my opinion in my original post when I said that foreign aid contributes to our long-term security. It's not my fault you threw a hissy fit and failed to actually read it.
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You didn't answer the question..Your rage caused you do what is so typical, you were all fired up with your response without reading the post.

So go back and re read it.  Please.  If you have to take a sabbatical from your hatred and anger, maybe do that first?  Then answer the question, if you can.

 
[scooter] said:
Do I agree that capitalism is better than communism, and that it is in our best interest to use economic aid to push vulnerable countries towards capitalism? Yes.
Click to expand...
Sweet..Now would you like to answer the question?  I appreciate your thoughts however

 
supermike80 said:
Here we go again.  Welcome to this forum.

I MADE NO JUDGMENTS!! I asked what you all think of what Joy said.   

What the heck is wrong with you people?  Are you at all capable of just discussing things?  Why does this happen in every single thread?
Click to expand...
I agree with you that zftcg was being unnecessarily hostile.

However, I suggest when starting threads to be more topic based than just "this person said this".  The topic you really want to discuss, it seems, is whether the U.S. should give foreign aid to Central American countries.  I think that approach leads to better discussions.

From the quote, I think Joy is wrong about "giving them" housing and food.  Such aid is probably too expensive in the long run.  I believe money in aid is better spent on projects designed to do things like " bolster security, the economy, education and judicial systems" like was mentioned in the article in my first post.  The hope, though, is those things would indirectly help feed, house, and keep people "happy" in the long run.  If that's what Joy means, I agree with her.

 
supermike80 said:
[scooter] said:
Do I agree that capitalism is better than communism, and that it is in our best interest to use economic aid to push vulnerable countries towards capitalism? Yes.
Click to expand...
Sweet..Now would you like to answer the question?  I appreciate your thoughts however
Click to expand...
Which question? The one that says "Do you agree with the View"? Or the one that says "Is this the solution?" Because those are two slightly different questions.

Also, Joy Behar is not "The View". She is a person.

So, it seems like what you really meant to ask is "Do you agree with what Joy Behar said on 'The View'"? Is that correct? Please let me know, and then I will be able to provide an answer.

 
[scooter] said:
Which question? The one that says "Do you agree with the View"? Or the one that says "Is this the solution?" Because those are two slightly different questions.

Also, Joy Behar is not "The View". She is a person.

So, it seems like what you really meant to ask is "Do you agree with what Joy Behar said on 'The View'"? Is that correct? Please let me know, and then I will be able to provide an answer.
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Are you actually seriously saying this?   OMG...Can't you JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION????  Instead of dissecting the way the question is phrased?

You guys here are on crack I think..I have NEVER seen a board like this in my life..It's like banging your head against the wall.

Done..Enjoy the thread, be lunatics..Ill just lurk for now.  You all have effectively silenced another    

 
Before I answer, I need to know our cost to house (or imprison), for 2 years, a migrant family of 4 seeking asylum.

 
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supermike80 said:
[scooter] said:
Which question? The one that says "Do you agree with the View"? Or the one that says "Is this the solution?" Because those are two slightly different questions.

Also, Joy Behar is not "The View". She is a person.

So, it seems like what you really meant to ask is "Do you agree with what Joy Behar said on 'The View'"? Is that correct? Please let me know, and then I will be able to provide an answer.
Click to expand...
Are you actually seriously saying this?   OMG...Can't you JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION???? 
Click to expand...
I politely asked you which question you wanted me to answer. Your response to me was quite hostile in comparison.

If you want your threads to go smoothly, I would suggest that A) you do a better job of clarifying what you want, and B) you're not hostile to people who are attempting to clarify what you want.

 
[scooter] said:
I politely asked you which question you wanted me to answer. Your response to me was quite hostile in comparison.

If you want your threads to go smoothly, I would suggest that A) you do a better job of clarifying what you want, and B) you're not hostile to people who are attempting to clarify what you want.
Click to expand...
You are 100% correct..I am entirely at fault.  Thank you for the lesson.

Have a wonderful day!

 
Juxtatarot said:
I agree with you that zftcg was being unnecessarily hostile.

However, I suggest when starting threads to be more topic based than just "this person said this".  The topic you really want to discuss, it seems, is whether the U.S. should give foreign aid to Central American countries.  I think that approach leads to better discussions.

From the quote, I think Joy is wrong about "giving them" housing and food.  Such aid is probably too expensive in the long run.  I believe money in aid is better spent on projects designed to do things like " bolster security, the economy, education and judicial systems" like was mentioned in the article in my first post.  The hope, though, is those things would indirectly help feed, house, and keep people "happy" in the long run.  If that's what Joy means, I agree with her.
Click to expand...
Yeah, maybe because I've been through this with him before. He starts a thread with a loaded question and then gets mad when people call him out on it. In a previous thread, I responded to his post, offered my opinion in detail and then asked his (I think I was being pretty polite, but read my response and decide for yourself). He threw the exact same tantrum that he did here. (Also, he never responded to my question.) And whatever his intentions, characterizing foreign aid to Latin American countries as "free things" is loaded in a way that's often invoked by racists, so yeah, that got my dander up.

Anyway, I see his pattern at this point: "Rando celebrity said something that I'm going to describe in terms that strongly imply she's cray-cray. What do you extreme liberals think? Just askin' ... How dare you impugn my motives! I was just putting forth a straightforward question for discussion!" It's pretty clear what he's trying to do with these threads and I shouldn't let myself get baited into responding. I won't going forward. /seacrestout

 
zftcg said:
Yeah, maybe because I've been through this with him before. He starts a thread with a loaded question and then gets mad when people call him out on it. In a previous thread, I responded to his post, offered my opinion in detail and then asked his (I think I was being pretty polite, but read my response and decide for yourself). He threw the exact same tantrum that he did here. (Also, he never responded to my question.) And whatever his intentions, characterizing foreign aid to Latin American countries as "free things" is loaded in a way that's often invoked by racists, so yeah, that got my dander up.

Anyway, I see his pattern at this point: "Rando celebrity said something that I'm going to describe in terms that strongly imply she's cray-cray. What do you extreme liberals think? Just askin' ... How dare you impugn my motives! I was just putting forth a straightforward question for discussion!" It's pretty clear what he's trying to do with these threads and I shouldn't let myself get baited into responding. I won't going forward. /seacrestout
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I replied to your post and yes I absolutely ignored your question.    Because you decided to get preachy again.  You blame me for this and I can't understand why--you even admitted you came out guns blazing and yet you are questioning my motives.  Maybe take a look at yourself.

I wanted to know, do you kids think the trade off is a good one? Buying central america off with "free stuff" (yeah I said it again), as Ms. Behar implies or should we just let them come here---not one single person answered that question. NOT ONE!

You lunatics were so determined to fire off your responses, or question the way the question was worded for Christ sakes, rather than just ANSWERING!

And I am the one stirring things up?    Nuts I tell you

 
supermike80 said:
I saw a quick article on CNN about some slap fight between Joy Behar and McCain.

Seems Behar's argument is we can stop the migration to the US by providing central american countries with free things.

Free housing etc..

The exact quote was    "That's the way to solve the problem — keep them there, happy," Behar said. "Give them a house, give them food, help them, help their children."

Is this the solution?  Or would that cost more than just letting them come here--at least we get more labor out of the deal.
Click to expand...
I don’t think giving them free housing is the role of our country.  However, I feel we have more of an obligation to give aid to neighboring countries to improve their quality of life.  This is especially the case when some of these countries are ravaged by drug cartels that end up selling drugs in our country.  We have also propped up some of these countries for decades.  We bail it’s a humanitarian crisis that washes up on our border.  I am much more in favor of helping these nations than some in the Middle East or Pakistan.  

 
knowledge dropper said:
I don’t think giving them free housing is the role of our country.  However, I feel we have more of an obligation to give aid to neighboring countries to improve their quality of life.  This is especially the case when some of these countries are ravaged by drug cartels that end up selling drugs in our country.  We have also propped up some of these countries for decades.  We bail it’s a humanitarian crisis that washes up on our border.  I am much more in favor of helping these nations than some in the Middle East or Pakistan.  
Click to expand...
Once or twice a week kd drops a great, nuanced take out of nowhere.

It confuses the hell out of me every time.

No offense, GB ;)

 
knowledge dropper said:
I don’t think giving them free housing is the role of our country.  However, I feel we have more of an obligation to give aid to neighboring countries to improve their quality of life.  This is especially the case when some of these countries are ravaged by drug cartels that end up selling drugs in our country.  We have also propped up some of these countries for decades.  We bail it’s a humanitarian crisis that washes up on our border.  I am much more in favor of helping these nations than some in the Middle East or Pakistan.  
Click to expand...
Well said.  I agree.

 
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