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Privacy - this is getting ridiculous (1 Viewer)

Sand

Sand

Footballguy
Maybe it's just me, but I'm seeing an unprecedented constriction is my ability to have privacy or at least control over what people know about me, my whereabouts, my life.  We have Alexa listening to everything you say, Google and Facebook sucking in everything they can and making opting out damn near impossible, your new car sending out your location, music, etc. to the manufacturer.  Heck, even your new refrigerator and A/C head unit are sending back data on you.  

Can we get to a point in this country where we can protect our own lives?  I will never own a voice activated device, will never buy a new car that has wireless capability, will never buy into the IoT.  Even then, it's incredibly hard to get away from Google, Facebook, credit card company recording, etc.  But, damn, can we stop this madness?  Even the US govt. was kind enough, though the OPM, to send my information and fingerprints over to the Chinese.

Maybe I'm just getting old.  Not just get off my lawn, but stop bloody spying on every aspect of my life you can scry and leave me the F alone.

Is there an easy way to do this, but still enjoy the conveniences of modern life?  I can't find one.

 
As long as nobody disrupts what I;m doing, not too concerned.  If my thing is that interesting to others, they have a problem.

 
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We don't need government intervention. The free market will take care of it. Some smart entrepreneurs will come along and create companies that are just like Amazon/Google/Facebook/etc. except that they don't invade your privacy, and consumers will quickly switch over to the new companies. And in a few years, Facebook and Google will be about as memorable as Myspace and Altavista.

 
It’s a lot easier to just roll with it. I’m also not convinced new laws would make a meaningful difference.

 
Even if they enacted new laws, they'd still do it. I always just took this conversation from Ex Machina as the status quo since the early 50's. Just assume they have too much data to dig through to possibly get to you.

 
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[scooter] said:
We don't need government intervention. The free market will take care of it. Some smart entrepreneurs will come along and create companies that are just like Amazon/Google/Facebook/etc. except that they don't invade your privacy, and consumers will quickly switch over to the new companies. And in a few years, Facebook and Google will be about as memorable as Myspace and Altavista.
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yea ok 

edit: dammit didn’t see your next post 

 
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Insein said:
Even if they enacted new laws, they'd still do it. I always just took this conversation from Ex Machina as the status quo since the early 50's. Just assume they have too much data to dig through to possibly get to you.
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I had forgotten that conversation.  Great movie, though all that really seemed to stick was the end part.

 
Nobody’s spying on you or looking at your data. You’re not that important. Nobody here is. You might get a targeted ad at some point. The horror!

 
Juxtatarot said:
It’s a lot easier to just roll with it. I’m also not convinced new laws would make a meaningful difference.
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Yep - I don’t disagree with anything Sand is saying but I would ask two questions:

- how is it actually impacting your life

- why don’t you just not let it bother you (assuming the answer to the first question is basically “it doesn’t impact me”)

 
Scoresman said:
I’m supposed to be up in arms because my refrigerator is sending info back to Westinghouse that I prefer Yoplait over Dannen?  
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But maybe now you'll get Yoplait pitched to you every 5 seconds when you would really be open to other brands of yogurt like Chobani?

And what about cottage cheese?

 
eoMMan said:
But maybe now you'll get Yoplait pitched to you every 5 seconds when you would really be open to other brands of yogurt like Chobani?

And what about cottage cheese?
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I don’t understand the uproar over targeted ads either. I mean, I’m going to be seeing ads anyway on various billboards, TV, webpages. They may as well be for stuff I might be interested in. 

And cottage cheese is gross. I hope my fridge knows that about my eating preferences. 

 
Sand said:
Is there an easy way to do this, but still enjoy the conveniences of modern life? 
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Well, no. And asking the question makes you sound a little silly.

That's not to say that you can't enjoy a very rich, full life living offline and paying cash for everything(probably not registering a car and using public transportation and/or walking and biking everywhere). People existed before everyone had a car, a cell phone, and the internet.

Why would you think that you could experience all the modern conveniences without giving up some of your privacy? Many if not most of modern life is the use of contextual information based on where you are at any given time. Can you use Uber without giving anyone GPS information of where you are and where you want to go at a specific time? The simple answer is "no". 

 
Scoresman said:
I don’t understand the uproar over targeted ads either. I mean, I’m going to be seeing ads anyway on various billboards, TV, webpages. They may as well be for stuff I might be interested in. 
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That's the one that seems amusing and confusing to me. We get advertised to all day long but if a few of those ads are for products and services we may be more interested in there seems to be a lot of people that really lose their minds about it. Believe me, I think people should be up in arms over the amount of advertising we see every day(especially when we are already paying for a good or service and still getting advertisements). The cable television model is the worst. But I've also been on flights and/or cab rides where they have a tablet screen directly in front of me pushing ads in my face. Literally. I'm tempted to carry a permanent black sharpie and just start scribbling on their screens to black them out. But if someone is offering me a "free" service to advertise to me that's a whole different conversation.

 
cashman88 said:
Tell your congressman/senator that you want comprehensive data protection laws passed.

There’s probably organizations trying to do that now; give them money and/or volunteer there. 
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Until Equifax, Experian, and Transunion are held to a higher standard what difference does all this other faux privacy really mean anyway? As long as they have all your private information and don't really have any negative impacts of keeping your information secure.... you could put all the laser beams on your windows you want but there isn't even a front door on your house.

 
BoltBacker said:
Why would you think that you could experience all the modern conveniences without giving up some of your privacy? Many if not most of modern life is the use of contextual information based on where you are at any given time. Can you use Uber without giving anyone GPS information of where you are and where you want to go at a specific time? The simple answer is "no". 
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I fully reject this concept.  If I use Uber, I'm consciously requesting a GPS ping and service based on that.  That doesn't mean I should want or have to tolerate Google passively tracking my phone with its GPS everywhere I go.  

I don't want or need contextual information based on where I am at any given time.  I want to turn that feature off. 

 
How do you plan to not own a voice activated device? Apple has siri listening. Android has Google assistant listening. Cable remotes have voice activation now. 

Scary world where our devices are teaming up to target us for advertising to be used against us. Just say something weird around your phone and watch the matching ads suddenly appear.

 
Sand said:
I don't want or need contextual information based on where I am at any given time.  I want to turn that feature off. 
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Well, that's super easy. Google will have no information where you are if you simply don't use an Android phone. Not joking at all. It's just a simple truth.

If you do prefer a cell phone that isn't a smart phone people will still know the vicinity of where you are based on the tower you are using to get a signal, but you will have gained a great deal of your privacy right there. Of course if you cut out a cell phone altogether then you gain even more privacy. It's possible to live life without a cell phone I can assure you. 

 
cashman88 said:
Tell your congressman/senator that you want comprehensive data protection laws passed.

There’s probably organizations trying to do that now; give them money and/or volunteer there. 
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Too late for that.  They already have more data than they need of us.

 
The Big Guy said:
How do you plan to not own a voice activated device? Apple has siri listening. Android has Google assistant listening. Cable remotes have voice activation now. 
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It wouldn't be that hard to live your life without an Google/apple product or subscribe to cable. If you don't mind bin-diving you can get blu-rays pretty cheap these days. A lot of public libraries allow you to check out DVD's for free. Some public libraries accept addresses linked to mail service rather than a home address. I think the tougher part is now the goverment requires that you use a home address to register for a mail service. All in the fight against "terrorism" of course. Really, all they have to do is use "terrorism" or "child porn" and who is going to push back against the government? 

 
The Big Guy said:
Scary world where our devices are teaming up to target us for advertising to be used against us. Just say something weird around your phone and watch the matching ads suddenly appear.
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How is this scary? What is the big deal about targeted advertising?  

 
Da Guru said:
Too late for that.  They already have more data than they need of us.
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Well, not only that but is the congressman going to listen to displeased voter or a donor that already makes so much money on exploiting our data that they can afford to buy "lobby" for more laws granting more access to it, not less?

 
eoMMan said:
But maybe now you'll get Yoplait pitched to you every 5 seconds when you would really be open to other brands of yogurt like Chobani?

And what about cottage cheese?
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i can't wait until the tv that's built in to my fridge is used to play ads every time i open the door, like the gas pump does when i unhook the nozzle to start filling my tank.

hopefully that's after my kids get tired of opening and shutting the fridge 1000 times per night.

 
Doug B said:
Though the Internet switched out the sail for nuclear propulsion. Spoken keyword-based tagging dates from the late 1950s if memory serves.
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The broadcast of data isn't really all that big of an issue if you can't store it, analyze it in mass.  So yeah, we began broadcasting data then, but no one was really listening/collecting in any meaningful way.

 
@Sand - I'll ask again, how is it actually impacting your life?  I don't disagree with your assessment and that you may not want it and should be able to "turn off" things but how does it impact your day to day?

I had this conversation with my FIL - he's like you but even more concerned.  My thought on it is with current technology people could make it look like you say or do just about anything so it kind of doesn't matter - if you get what I'm saying.  Just live your life and ignore it is my best advice.

 
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I gave up worrying. Don't touch my money or knock on my door and we'll be alright. I have 5 Google homes, 3 smart TVs, 2 new cars  and two Google Hello's. Oh and cameras. I see no difference from when I had none except I see everyone that comes near my house. So I guess I'm giving back.

 
Avoid Huawei phones, get an iPhone. I’m under no illusion tha Siri doesn’t listen to my conversations, but I do know that Apple tries its best to tell the government to get ####ed when they want to access user data.

 
We weed strong data privacy laws like what Europe has passed with GDPR. While it won't stop companies from collecting it, it should deter them from selling it and/or keeping it once you ask for it to be deleted.

 
AAABatteries said:
@Sand - I'll ask again, how is it actually impacting your life?  I don't disagree with your assessment and that you may not way it and should be able to "turn off" things but how does it impact your day to day?
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That's the thing - it really doesn't.  Let's face it, I'm pushing 50 and my online activities and real world activities are droll.  Stocks, finances, the FFA, news.  The most risque place stops at Instagram.  Heck, at this point in my life I'm much more likely to get contacted by the IRS than any other law enforcement agency.  My physical existence is about 60 hours/week in the office and most of the rest at home.  Boring, to be honest.

But it bothers me (not in a "I'm going to go off the grid and live in the woods" way) that we can't withdraw from some of this stuff.  Soon every car will be wirelessly equipped.  Even though my life is boring that's my car, my movements.  I want to turn that #### off.

And, for the most part I do ignore it, mostly because I simply don't have time to do more than ##### about it here.

 
Europe has been much more proactive on this front.  I’m surprised we have let technology companies off the hook with regards to protecting privacy.

 
This doesn't bother me at all. As a matter of fact i think the more data a company has on its consumers, the better their products will be. 

 
shadyridr said:
This doesn't bother me at all. As a matter of fact i think the more data a company has on its consumers, the better their products will be. 
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Yup.  Wireless internet in cars is awesome.  Ordering a pizza through alexa is awesome.  Connecting with old friends and family on facebook is awesome.  The convenience and quality of life improvements these technologies provide seem so much greater than the minute risk that data collection will ever truly negatively affect you.  

 
Scoresman said:
Yup.  Wireless internet in cars is awesome.  Ordering a pizza through alexa is awesome.  Connecting with old friends and family on facebook is awesome.  The convenience and quality of life improvements these technologies provide seem so much greater than the minute risk that data collection will ever truly negatively affect you.  
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I don’t see why we couldn’t have both.  Nobody is saying we turn off the ability for companies to collect data.  The issue is making sure people have power over what is being collected, how it’s used, and how it’s protected.

 
I'm actually against "the internet of things" and worry that otherwise inoffensive data collection won't be just used for targeted marketing, per se, but for other things that have to do with law enforcement or government bureaucracies, two entities I want nothing to do with. 

I'm not sure I'm wrong on this. The Supreme Court figured out, post Katz, how to allow law enforcement and government agencies to access your phone pen registry, among other things. Whereas before, under the Olmstead case, there was a property-based view of the warrant requirement for the Fourth Amendment, beginning in 1967 there was a trio of cases that held that privacy protected "people, not places." Then later in the '70s, under Rehnquist and the Rehnquist court, it was found that if you turned your information over to a third party that the threshold under which government and law enforcement could access your information had greatly decreased. 

Think about the protections for paper mail vs. electronic mail. The difference in standards for a subpoena of your personal communications depending on the format is staggering and scary given the ubiquity of electronic mail vs. paper mail. Whereas the Fourth Amendment provides that people are "secure...in their papers," it has been found, via legislation and test cases, that this is not the same as electronic mail. 

Just something to think about. 

Here's an essay on the Katz test, particularly Justice Harlan's concurrence. https://www.gwlr.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/85-Geo.-Wash.-L.-Rev.-Arguendo-140.pdf

 
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