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2019 NBA Playoffs Thread: Toronto Raptors win NBA title #1.33

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Just now, EYLive said:

Harden jumps forward on his 3pt attempts, so the defender having to give him a landing spot isn't relevant.

I thought earlier in the game the refs missed a couple of fouls on Harden by GSW but no chance on that last one. He jumped forward and kicked out. 

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1 minute ago, Moe. said:

I thought earlier in the game the refs missed a couple of fouls on Harden by GSW but no chance on that last one. He jumped forward and kicked out. 

Agree with this.  I thought they could have gotten Klay a few times but the one they called on McKinnie was BS.  No we he gets that call at the end unless there is contact before the shot or literally comes down on someones foot.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, ShamrockPride said:

I'll go with Modogg here. Celtics are lucky they get to avoid Philly until ECF. It's great that Boston seems to have flipped the switch for the playoffs. But C's just don't match up well with Philly, especially one with a healthy Embiid. Honestly Philly is the only team in the East I worry about. Worst case scenario is for Toronto to find a way to choke this series with a hardly functional Embiid.

I think the longest a Celtics series lasts against the Bucks or Raptors is 6 games. Those teams just don't have a game changer outside of Giannis or Kawhi.

ehh disagree. Toronto is the team i think that is the one to avoid, and that is why i have a healthy chunk riding on them to win the East. a Boston-Philly series would have been fun, but i really don't know who wins that series. Especially considering how close most of the games have been they have played over the last year or so. that series would be fun for everyone though.

Edited by modogg
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2 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

I think the Butler and Harris trades put them in win now mode.  That means more should be expected than a second round exit.

I have no idea what their team would be like if they wouldn’t have done the massive tanking. It’s impossible to know.  However, if all that suffering leads only to this slightly above average Eastern Conference playoff team, that’s a disappointment.  They’ll be in a lot turmoil after this series and could very well break up. They can try a quick rebuild but they can’t count on many seasons with Embiid healthy. 

Ben and Embiid are basically in their 2nd season playing together. I would suggest maybe slowing the horses a bit, pretty hard to make any definitive conclusions on either considering we probably got another 5 years with both when they are approaching, or in their, primes

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2 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

After trading for Harris:

“We are in the unique position to contend now and we think this trade positions us well for the postseason,” 76ers GM Elton Brand said in a statement Wednesday. 

Contending isn’t losing in the second round.

:lmao: c'mon now. We aren't taking a 1st year GM trying to promote his team to the media as gospel are we?  I don't know the future of the team, and this off-season will be just as interesting as a few other teams, but worst case scenario they will still have Ben and Embiid locked in for the next 4 years. Probably good for high 40's or so, and we will see what else they can do. Will be lots of questions, but at this point it is pretty hard to draw a conclusion on this team after game 1 of the 2nd round

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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

He’s not trolling - someone is just being overly sensitive. 

How is it not a fair question to ask if the “process” - being an embarrassment for years - really can be considered a success when then team hasn’t been able to get out of the second round and doesn’t look like they’re positioned to do so as currently constituted.

Milwaukee, Toronto, GS, Portland, Denver, Houston and Boston never tanked and all look like better teams right now.

of course it’s only one game so maybe the Sixers end up winning the series rendering the discussion moot.

look up Andrew Bynum trade and the salary cap situation with albatross contracts then let us know if the comparison of those teams makes any sense

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1 hour ago, Deamon said:

76 percent chance to win the series per Vegas I believe. 

I don't know about those numbers but the Sixers had about the same odds as Boston to win the series.  You have a very defeatist attitude my little friend.   

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50 minutes ago, Moe. said:

I thought earlier in the game the refs missed a couple of fouls on Harden by GSW but no chance on that last one. He jumped forward and kicked out. 

Probably wearing my Houston fan blinders but a lot of blown calls IMO.  Frustrating to watch b/c those post jumper collisions seemed to get called all year.  

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12 minutes ago, Major said:

I don't know about those numbers but the Sixers had about the same odds as Boston to win the series.  You have a very defeatist attitude my little friend.   

Ok my little friend.  

My point is we are underdogs so it's not the huge shock or choke job others make it out to be if we lose a series that everyone is picking us to lose. 

Raptors are a tough matchup for us and a good team. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Short Corner said:

Warrior fan here.  Yes it is.  He gets to come down where ever he wants given it wasn't occupied by a player in lefal guarding position.  

There were multiple replays where Harden jumps forward and lands inside the defender's space. Harden wanted a defensive foul when it could have been called an offensive foul, especially with the way he kicks his legs out. And if the refs were to give out techs for flopping (like they're supposed to), he'd have a bunch of those as well.

F that dweeb.

Edited by EYLive
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19 minutes ago, Deamon said:

Ok my little friend.  

My point is we are underdogs so it's not the huge shock or choke job others make it out to be if we lose a series that everyone is picking us to lose. 

Raptors are a tough matchup for us and a good team. 

I guess I'd hope for more than an early 2nd round exit with the nucleus of Embid, Simmons and Butler.  Maybe I'm giving them more credit than you think they deserve.

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2 minutes ago, Major said:

I guess I'd hope for more than an early 2nd round exit with the nucleus of Embid, Simmons and Butler.  Maybe I'm giving them more credit than you think they deserve.

Sixers will make adjustments and win this in 6. I've said that since the playoffs started. 

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46 minutes ago, Major said:

Probably wearing my Houston fan blinders but a lot of blown calls IMO.  Frustrating to watch b/c those post jumper collisions seemed to get called all year.  

These is the PLAYOFFS BABY!!

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

I think the Butler and Harris trades put them in win now mode.  That means more should be expected than a second round exit.

I have no idea what their team would be like if they wouldn’t have done the massive tanking. It’s impossible to know.  However, if all that suffering leads only to this slightly above average Eastern Conference playoff team, that’s a disappointment.  They’ll be in a lot turmoil after this series and could very well break up. They can try a quick rebuild but they can’t count on many seasons with Embiid healthy. 

:goodposting: 

100%. Anything short of a Finals appearance this season is a disappointment. Never again will they have the collection of top end talent they have now.

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL

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13 minutes ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

:goodposting: 

100%. Anything short of a Finals appearance this season is a disappointment. Never again will they have the collection of top end talent they have now.

ECF has been the benchmark for Brown to keep his job. If they fail to get there, I think he's gone. Sixers will offer Harris and Butler the max and it will be on them if they want to take the most money or play else where for less. Maybe a new coach does a better job with this team but they still have plenty of future ahead.

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8 minutes ago, Insein said:

ECF has been the benchmark for Brown to keep his job. If they fail to get there, I think he's gone. Sixers will offer Harris and Butler the max and it will be on them if they want to take the most money or play else where for less. Maybe a new coach does a better job with this team but they still have plenty of future ahead.

those contracts will be pretty fascinating. if Sixers lose in 5 and we get the same Butler and Harris we had game 1 of this series, i can see no way they can give them max contracts. will be tough if they lose them this off-season forfeiting those assets, so maybe 1 year max contracts could be a comprimise

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26 minutes ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

:goodposting: 

100%. Anything short of a Finals appearance this season is a disappointment. Never again will they have the collection of top end talent they have now.

i think we really can't understate how little this team has played together. expecting to all come together so quick is tough. not sure how they will be judged, but i'd love to see them get an off-season of work in, and then judge away

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27 minutes ago, modogg said:

those contracts will be pretty fascinating. if Sixers lose in 5 and we get the same Butler and Harris we had game 1 of this series, i can see no way they can give them max contracts. will be tough if they lose them this off-season forfeiting those assets, so maybe 1 year max contracts could be a comprimise

Nope. It's max deal or no deal. They will get Max from someone believe it. The only leverage the Sixers have to keep them is that extra money they can offer for owning their rights. There is no one else out there that they can get (unless you think Durant is available which he is not for Philly). 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Major said:

Probably wearing my Houston fan blinders but a lot of blown calls IMO.  Frustrating to watch b/c those post jumper collisions seemed to get called all year.  

True.  They were called all year - and THAT is the problem.

Painful as it is to say this, I'm with Draymond:

"Gotta contest the shot," Green said. "When you land three feet ahead of where you shoot the ball from, that really ain't my issue."

 

Harden initiates most contact, he flops non-stop, he lands --- if he doesn't fall down randomly --- way farther in front of his jump zone than is natural.  The refs are calling it now (mostly) like it should have been called all season.

I can see why this shift is painful and frustrating to the Rockets.

Edited by Alex P Keaton
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2 hours ago, modogg said:

ehh disagree. Toronto is the team i think that is the one to avoid, and that is why i have a healthy chunk riding on them to win the East. a Boston-Philly series would have been fun, but i really don't know who wins that series. Especially considering how close most of the games have been they have played over the last year or so. that series would be fun for everyone though.

We are just now seeing what the Celtics are capable of right now.  Today's game had them firing on 7 of their 8 cylinders.   Tatum played like garbage and they don't have Marcus Smart in the fold.

Philly would not beat the C's as they played today.  Horford was amazing and can (and has) done the same vs. Embiid.

I was very reserved on Boston until I watched them play today.  I thought they would lose this series in 6.  Now I think they win in 5 or 6. 

In the postgame show, Paul Pierce said Milwaukee doesn't have a counter move to what they saw today and Boston is the more talented team.  I agree, and not because of homerism.  It is an honest assessment of what was shown on the court both today and this season.

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It's not like Paul Pierce is biased or anything.

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12 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

It's not like Paul Pierce is biased or anything.

May be, and so am I...but we both also know basketball and opening the playoffs with 5 straight including a beatdown of the 1 seed on their home floor ain't nothing.

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I don't get why it's so hard for refs to make the correct call on jump shots. A textbook jump shot has the shooter jump straight up and down and shoulders square. Any contact caused by a deviation from a "natural shooting motion" should be a no-call or offensive foul. Anytime the defender does not give the player enough space to land or makes contact with a shooter who is jumping straight up and down it's a defensive foul.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

May be, and so am I...but we both also know basketball and opening the playoffs with 5 straight including a beatdown of the 1 seed on their home floor ain't nothing.

🤣 sweeping the Pacers is not impressive.  Again, it's one game.  The Bucks are still favored by seven in game two and favorites for the series.  Give it at least one more game before you declare them the champions

Edited by tjnc09

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30 minutes ago, Charlie Harper said:

I don't get why it's so hard for refs to make the correct call on jump shots. 

The short answer is that the refs are bad at their job and have been for the past decade. ESPN (not sure if the other networks do the same) make a point to defend NBA officiating as much as possible. It's dishonest and laughable.

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1 minute ago, EYLive said:

The short answer is that the refs are bad at their job and have been for the past decade. ESPN (not sure if the other networks do the same) make a point to defend NBA officiating as much as possible. It's dishonest and laughable.

Long answer, at least 10% of them are doing what Donaghey did but are more discreet about it.

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36 minutes ago, Charlie Harper said:

A textbook jump shot has the shooter jump straight up and down and shoulders square. Any contact caused by a deviation from a "natural shooting motion" should be a no-call or offensive foul. 

You mean like this?

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12 minutes ago, bananafish said:

You mean like this?

Man.  Such a dirty play by Harden.  Just flat out dangerous for defenders.  Appalling that the NBA lets that go on.

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Being a referee is an impossible job.  They have a split second to decide if a foul was committed by a world class athlete.  They don't have 20 different slow motion angles in high definition to judge.  If they do review plays, people complain it disrupts and slows down the flow of the game.  

 

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5 hours ago, Major said:

I guess I'd hope for more than an early 2nd round exit with the nucleus of Embid, Simmons and Butler.  Maybe I'm giving them more credit than you think they deserve.

Now I'm not hoping for more than a 2nd round exit?  I would love nothing more than to upset the Raptors.  I'm being a realist and saying that the likely scenario is the favoured team wins.

Toronto is a great team.  They won 58 games (a rare feat in the East over the last decade) and you're acting like we're a huge failure if we don't beat them.  Not everyone can win the East, and not every team that doesn't is a huge bust. 

The bottom line is we would likely not even be remotely close to where we are without Hinkie getting us Embiid and Ben. 

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2 hours ago, Jayrod said:

May be, and so am I...but we both also know basketball and opening the playoffs with 5 straight including a beatdown of the 1 seed on their home floor ain't nothing.

Ya they're definitely clicking right now.  With their talent and confidence, as much as I hate to say it, they're going to win this series.  Giannis needs to have an absolute monster game on Tuesday.  If they head back to Boston down 2-0, they may get swept. 

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2 hours ago, Charlie Harper said:

I don't get why it's so hard for refs to make the correct call on jump shots. A textbook jump shot has the shooter jump straight up and down and shoulders square. Any contact caused by a deviation from a "natural shooting motion" should be a no-call or offensive foul. Anytime the defender does not give the player enough space to land or makes contact with a shooter who is jumping straight up and down it's a defensive foul.

 

 

That's not textbook at all.  A lot of shooting coaches teach you to line up your strong side foot, hip, shoulder towards the rim, not square.  They also teach foot sway- having your feet land 6-10 inches from where you elevated while the rest of your body goes up vertically.

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2 hours ago, Short Corner said:

That's not textbook at all.  A lot of shooting coaches teach you to line up your strong side foot, hip, shoulder towards the rim, not square.  They also teach foot sway- having your feet land 6-10 inches from where you elevated while the rest of your body goes up vertically.

I get there's small deviations, but like porn we know it when we see it. 

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12 hours ago, EYLive said:

Harden jumps forward on his 3pt attempts, so the defender having to give him a landing spot isn't relevant.

Is that the rule? Because the defender is moving forward also. They are both moving forward. 

What's the rule when that happens?

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, tjnc09 said:

🤣 sweeping the Pacers is not impressive.  Again, it's one game.  The Bucks are still favored by seven in game two and favorites for the series.  Give it at least one more game before you declare them the champions

Sweeping the Pacers was impressive.  And it was a road win in the playoffs vs. the favorite to win the East and it was a dominant win at that.

Yes, all of it was impressive.  I'm declaring them better than we thought they were 2 weeks ago and a very likely candidate to win the East.

Edited by Jayrod

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3 hours ago, Charlie Harper said:

I get there's small deviations, but like porn we know it when we see it. 

It's not and you don't.

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1 hour ago, whoknew said:

Is that the rule? Because the defender is moving forward also. They are both moving forward. 

What's the rule when that happens?

Guy with the ball is entitled to land.  Defender is entitled to the space he occupied when the guy with ball left the floor.  Same principle as block/charge in the lane basically.

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4 hours ago, Short Corner said:

Guy with the ball is entitled to land.  Defender is entitled to the space he occupied when the guy with ball left the floor.  Same principle as block/charge in the lane basically.

Do you think this is a foul on Green?

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13 minutes ago, scoobus said:

Do you think this is a foul on Green?

I've stayed out of the GSW/HOU fouls debate because I didn't watch the game.

That action is incredibly difficult for an official to handle if you aren't prepped for it.  No doubt, I would likely fall for it the first couple of times, but it should not be a foul.

It is basically a double leg kick out instead of the single leg kick out.  But it is deceptive because it looks like he is just going to land there if you aren't paying super close attention.

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23 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

I've stayed out of the GSW/HOU fouls debate because I didn't watch the game.

That action is incredibly difficult for an official to handle if you aren't prepped for it.  No doubt, I would likely fall for it the first couple of times, but it should not be a foul.

It is basically a double leg kick out instead of the single leg kick out.  But it is deceptive because it looks like he is just going to land there if you aren't paying super close attention.

Of course it's a foul.  On Harden.  Easy call.

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1 hour ago, Jayrod said:

I've stayed out of the GSW/HOU fouls debate because I didn't watch the game.

That action is incredibly difficult for an official to handle if you aren't prepped for it.  No doubt, I would likely fall for it the first couple of times, but it should not be a foul.

It is basically a double leg kick out instead of the single leg kick out.  But it is deceptive because it looks like he is just going to land there if you aren't paying super close attention.

Guys will sway with two legs if they don't turn.  As long as you don't ball watch it should be easier to call.

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2 hours ago, scoobus said:

Do you think this is a foul on Green?

He said on the previous page that's not a foul on Green. That one is pretty egregious on Harden's part, and the refs made the right call. Thompson definitely got up under Harden at least once, probably twice, and was lucky to get away with it in the first half.

Anyone acting like this is easy for the officials is insane. 

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If you wanna blatantly flop on every single contested 3, expect zero benefit of the doubt from the refs.  Seems easy to me.

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Rockets really leaning into this whiny shtick:

Report: Rockets told NBA that officiating cost them 2018 championship, $20M revenue

In case you've forgotten, the Warriors beat the Rockets comfortably in Game 1 (+13), beat them by 41 in Game 3, beat them by 29 in Game 6.  The Rockets won a game by 3 and another by 4. It was fairly obvious who the better team was.

Apparently their entire complaint centers around Game 7, which the Warriors won by 9. They went through the league's full game report and added up the points change based on expected value. This method included stuff like this:
 

Quote

 

In one example, James Harden got away with a possible infraction, an uncalled shooting foul on Kevon Looney. Without a whistle, the Warriors got an offensive rebound, and Kevin Durant made a 3-pointer. The Rockets said a correct call would have produced an expected value of one Golden State point (based on Looney’s free-throw percentage and two attempts). But because the Warriors instead scored three points on the possession, Houston claimed the missed call gave Golden State two extra points. In other words, the Rockets claimed they were harmed by getting away with a foul!


 

Come on.

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