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2019 NBA Playoffs Thread: Toronto Raptors win NBA title #1.33

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17 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

I loved this. I agree with Goldsberry, it's a real problem for the league. The increase in three-point shooting was great for the game in the early part of the decade when it led to better spacing and more ball movement, but now things seem to be moving in the other direction.

I'd like to see them move the line to 25 or maybe even 26 feet, and also get rid of the line that shortens corner 3s like he suggests. Maybe they could widen the court to 52 feet instead of 54 feet as a compromise between the need to change the rule and not wanting to make things too difficult for the arena managers dealing with seating plans.

haven't read the article yet,  but I know there was buzz for a bit about a 4-point line. Not sure if it was just bloggers or what, but wondering if that would be any good or not

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Goldsberry on Lowe’s podcast was very good and thought-provoking. They made the point that an average three point shooter taking a 3 is better value that a KAT post up, and that the league has basically been legislating against bigs for 30+ years. 

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6 minutes ago, modogg said:

haven't read the article yet,  but I know there was buzz for a bit about a 4-point line. Not sure if it was just bloggers or what, but wondering if that would be any good or not

I think that would make things worse. Variety in offensive schemes is vanishing - there's zero value in mid range game now, and almost zero value in interior game as well. And I'm so ####### sick of watching teams run "the break" with the intent of getting  a corner three so often. There needs to be balance between offense generated at various spots in the front court. The game is devolving into one long patty cake match running picks at the three point line and shuttling the ball on the perimeter. There needs to be an adjustment made so that there's a place for guys like Maurice Lucas as much as there is for guys like Steph Curry.

Edited by Gr00vus
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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, modogg said:

haven't read the article yet,  but I know there was buzz for a bit about a 4-point line. Not sure if it was just bloggers or what, but wondering if that would be any good or not

That seems gimmicky to me. This is more about how the three point shot with the current line (and the shortened line along the sideline) is so much more efficient than any other shot on the floor that it's creating unappealing basketball. I'm fine with rewarding a team for generating a clean look at a three because that's hard to do, but at this point even bad, contested three point shots are more efficient than midrange jumpers, and that's just not fun to watch.

It's obviously just personal preference, but compare Giannis to Harden just in terms of scoring. Giannis is a great scorer because he has a unique ability to cover ground and get to the basket and finish in traffic. Harden is great because he can shoot 35% on ISO threes which has a higher eEFG% than basically anything other than a shot at the rim and also because he's really good at "drawing contact" on those threes.  For entertainment value I'll take the Freak every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I think most basketball fans would agree with that.  Moving the line out lowers that percentage and make the strategy less efficient.

Edited by TobiasFunke
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18 minutes ago, modogg said:

haven't read the article yet,  but I know there was buzz for a bit about a 4-point line. Not sure if it was just bloggers or what, but wondering if that would be any good or not

which reminds me of maybe my favorite NBA quote of all-time by a player, who was apparently born a decade too soon, who responded to a reporter asking him why he shot so many 3s - ""Because there are no fours." 

https://www.celticsblog.com/2015/9/2/9216435/a-tribute-to-antoine-walker-employee-number-8

"For two seasons in particular, Antoine's three-point volume was ginormous. Walker hit 221 of 603 three pointers in the 2000-01 season (both leading the league), and 222 out of 645 the following season (second in makes only to Ray Allen, and again leading in attempts).

The sheer volume of Walker's three-point attempts compared to his peers cannot be understressed. In the 2000-01 season in which he led the league in both makes and misses, only three other players with more than hundred makes could be accepted as being actual 'big men' (Tim Thomas, 107; Rashard Lewis, 123; Dirk Nowitzki, 151)."

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21 minutes ago, thecatch said:

Goldsberry on Lowe’s podcast was very good and thought-provoking. They made the point that an average three point shooter taking a 3 is better value that a KAT post up, and that the league has basically been legislating against bigs for 30+ years. 

backlash to the Mourning, Ewing, Rik Smits, etc. eastern conference teams that beat the tar out of each other in the 80s and 90s.

and the Rockets who played 1 v 1 on every possession. fans complained it was boring/slow and wanted more 80s Lakers v Nuggest 150 - 140 contests.

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6 minutes ago, mr. furley said:

backlash to the Mourning, Ewing, Rik Smits, etc. eastern conference teams that beat the tar out of each other in the 80s and 90s.

and the Rockets who played 1 v 1 on every possession. fans complained it was boring/slow and wanted more 80s Lakers v Nuggest 150 - 140 contests.

Yeah, I don't want mosh pit or iso ball to become dominant either. They've got to find a way to have room for a variety of styles and approaches to be effective.

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2 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

Yeah, I don't want mosh pit or iso ball to become dominant either. They've got to find a way to have room for a variety of styles and approaches to be effective.

in theory that's what the G League should be

though, i guess that's how we got here in the first place since it seems the G League was the petri dish that resulted in teams playing Loyola Marymount ball again. 

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11 hours ago, General Malaise said:

Hope this post doesn't age as well as you think it will.  

You assuming Denver gets by Portland will not age well. I know it is your schtick to predict demise for the teams you like though.

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1 hour ago, Bull Dozier said:

My boys were incredulous when I told them Harlan used to do local Twolves broadcasts.

He still does GB Packers exhibition games.  It's odd having better announcers during those games than over half the regular season.

 

51 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

I loved this. I agree with Goldsberry, it's a real problem for the league. The increase in three-point shooting was great for the game in the early part of the decade when it led to better spacing and more ball movement, but now things seem to be moving in the other direction.

I have no problem with 3's but agree the league has now swung too far in favor of pure shooters over every other basketball skill.  The NBA has never been shy about making tweaks to the rulebook to shift how teams play.  Hopefully that continues with some combination of ideas to give teams multiple ways to be effective on offense vs the current homogeneous move to the same analytically sound 3's/rim/foul line approach.

I especially liked the idea of slimming the paint to improve the math on post play and moving the 3 point line out a bit.  I would also be in favor of doing something to the corner 3.  Eliminating it would be one solution, but the other idea Goldberry had that was really interesting was making it a 3 second area similar to the paint is for defenders.  I'd be intrigued to see how offenses would adapt when two players can't simply stand in the corner for the entire possession.

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15 minutes ago, trader jake said:

He still does GB Packers exhibition games.  It's odd having better announcers during those games than over half the regular season.

listening to Harlan and Rich Gannon call pre-season games nearly made me mute the tv in favor of the radio

then i remember that Larry McCarren is on the radio call and... well.... then i just turn the sound off completely.

 

at least Gannon wasn't on the pre-season calls last year but Harlan is so, so bad. and it pains me to say that considering he's one of us.

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21 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

You assuming Denver gets by Portland will not age well. I know it is your schtick to predict demise for the teams you like though.

I'm usually right, though.  See Washington vs Ducks, 2016....Washington State vs Ducks 2017, etc, etc...

Portland has no answer for the Joker.  Not sure why you can't see this.  Plain as day.

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23 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

You assuming Denver gets by Portland will not age well. I know it is your schtick to predict demise for the teams you like though.

I also had a season bet with @Moe. on who would have a better record, Portland or OKC and I took Portland, so I don't always predict demise for the teams I like.  I just understand down and distance a little better than the average myopic fan.  :shrug:

 

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1 minute ago, General Malaise said:

I'm usually right, though.  See Washington vs Ducks, 2016....Washington State vs Ducks 2017, etc, etc...

Portland has no answer for the Joker.  Not sure why you can't see this.  Plain as day.

Didn't you claim Portland would get beat by Oklahoma City?  

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27 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

You assuming Denver gets by Portland will not age well. I know it is your schtick to predict demise for the teams you like though.

AND...I was boldly claiming the Ducks would beat UW this season and said so before the season began.  :bowtie:

 

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1 minute ago, General Malaise said:

AND...I was boldly claiming the Ducks would beat UW this season and said so before the season began.  :bowtie:

 

True, I remember being surprised that you picked the Ducks over UW last year.  

I just think this series with Denver will be a great one that could go either way.  Experts agree with me and in fact more chose Portland winning the series than Denver.

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1 minute ago, Don't Noonan said:

Didn't you claim Portland would get beat by Oklahoma City?  

Probably.  But I also offered @Moe. a series wager when OKC was favored prior to game 1 and he politely declined.  

Dame had 39.....Kanter had 22 and they STILL lost game 1 by a bunch.  Couple that with the season against Denver and I don't think it bodes well for Portland.  Denver is a damn good basketball team.  I fully expect Thcnj99 or whatever to be rooting for them in 3 years' time.

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4 minutes ago, General Malaise said:

Probably.  But I also offered @Moe. a series wager when OKC was favored prior to game 1 and he politely declined.  

Dame had 39.....Kanter had 22 and they STILL lost game 1 by a bunch.  Couple that with the season against Denver and I don't think it bodes well for Portland.  Denver is a damn good basketball team.  I fully expect Thcnj99 or whatever to be rooting for them in 3 years' time.

McCollum did almost nothing.  Denver was ice cold from outside against SA but lit it up in Game 1.  Reminded me of Game 3 against OKC.  I doubt that happens again.  

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22 minutes ago, mr. furley said:

listening to Harlan and Rich Gannon call pre-season games nearly made me mute the tv in favor of the radio

then i remember that Larry McCarren is on the radio call and... well.... then i just turn the sound off completely.

 

at least Gannon wasn't on the pre-season calls last year but Harlan is so, so bad. and it pains me to say that considering he's one of us.

blasphemy

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1 hour ago, thecatch said:

Goldsberry on Lowe’s podcast was very good and thought-provoking. They made the point that an average three point shooter taking a 3 is better value that a KAT post up, and that the league has basically been legislating against bigs for 30+ years. 

How exactly have they been legislating against bigs?

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8 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

McCollum did almost nothing.  Denver was ice cold from outside against SA but lit it up in Game 1.  Reminded me of Game 3 against OKC.  I doubt that happens again.  

Yeah, McCollum tends to disappear when teams, you know......PLAY DEFENSE against him.  I don't think you remember the New Orleans series from last year, but they bottled both guards up and the frustration on Lillard's face in Game 1 was palpable.  And I still don't know what you think Portland is going to do with Joker.  Kanter is trying hard, but his wing is bad, man.  Justin Bieber Leonard is just a walking foul call and Collins is too green.  

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59 minutes ago, Short Corner said:

How exactly have they been legislating against bigs?

On the podcast he goes all the way back to Mikan as far as that is concerned. So adding a three-point line, widening the lane, outlawing zone (for a time), etc. were all done (in his opinion) to make things more "fair" for guards/smaller guys. 

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4 hours ago, mr. furley said:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26633540/the-nba-obsessed-3s-let-fix-thing

"Consider this crazy stat: During the 2018- 2019 regular season, NBA shooters made 27,955 3-point shots. That's more than they made during the entire 1980s (23,871)."

Read this article yesterday, fantastic.  My favorite idea is to change the line yearly so that it ultimately is at a distance with 33.33% chance of making the shot, thus expected points per shot of 1.  Second favorite was home team gets to pick the line for the season, that would be interesting.

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15 hours ago, ShamrockPride said:

Yup. And I've been vocal about both these same things. I've said from day 1 we overpaid on Hayward. Dude had 1 20ppg season over his entire career the season before we signed him to that deal. Minimal evidence to support that salary. It's going to hold us back.

Tatum got overhyped af. Rookie who averaged a very average 14ppg rookie season, and could only expand it to 15.7 his sophomore year. Pretty sure most young superstars (as he's been billed) are dropping more than 15.7 in their second season.

was listening to the Dunk'd on podcast today. Apparently they ranked the most efficient/best players in iso match-ups over the year who had at least 100 iso opportunities. Tatum ranked 95th. and there were only 95 players who had 100 iso attempts.  I might go back to drafting Fultz over Tatum, real winner out of the draft may be Orlando :whistle:

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We should be legislating against big men. Move the line in.

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1 hour ago, Long Ball Larry said:

video and sound both blocked for me

assuming this is his "the guy is drunk" call? 

 

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57 minutes ago, Moe. said:

On the podcast he goes all the way back to Mikan as far as that is concerned. So adding a three-point line, widening the lane, outlawing zone (for a time), etc. were all done (in his opinion) to make things more "fair" for guards/smaller guys. 

Outlawing zone hurts big guys?  Would love to hear him defend that one.  When they were considering reallowing zone 15 years ago the biggest complainers were big men. 

 

One can argue that the line helps the big guy.  Making all shots equal value is going to cause teams to pack the lane even more.  They actually moved the line in to create spacing for the big guys in the mid 90's.

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He may have used the illegal defense rules as an example of the NBA making tweaks in order to encourage a certain style of play,  not necessarily as something that benefitted non-post players 

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9 minutes ago, Moe. said:

He may have used the illegal defense rules as an example of the NBA making tweaks in order to encourage a certain style of play,  not necessarily as something that benefitted non-post players 

Of course it doesn't, it benefits players who generate offense close to the rim.  Should remove all defensive restictions with regard to style of play.  Only place you see it is in the NBA and u12 leagues.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, ShamrockPride said:

Tatum got overhyped af. Rookie who averaged a very average 14ppg rookie season, and could only expand it to 15.7 his sophomore year. Pretty sure most young superstars (as he's been billed) are dropping more than 15.7 in their second season.

I'd agree with him being over-hyped.  Tatum's value isn't necessarily in his scoring, but his versatility and defense.  I'm personally more concerned he didn't have a bigger uptick in assists as he should be able to find the open guy more often than twice a game.  Plus his advanced stats all took a dip this season and he has been a no-show for the last 2 playoff games. 

However, he is also barely 21 years old.  He has only been able to buy a beer for 2 months now.  There is some time to improve and he is still off to a really good (but not as great as we hoped) start.

Edited by Jayrod

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Pretty good game going on here. Guess Portland didn't get the sweep memo.

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28 minutes ago, Insein said:

Pretty good game going on here. Guess Portland didn't get the sweep memo.

Portland lost game 1 so they can't sweep Denver.  Portland will win in 6.

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7 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Portland lost game 1 so they can't sweep Denver.  Portland will win in 6.

People were calling for a Denver sweep after game one. Portland didn't read that memo.

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So Jokic completely shoves Kanter into a Denver player---Jamal Murray rushes off of the bench and rushes an innocent Kanter--and somehow Jokic avoids a tech--and Kanter gets one even though he didn't do anything wrong. No wonder the home court is strong in Denver.   

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1 minute ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

So Jokic completely shoves Kanter into a Denver player---Jamal Murray rushes off of the bench and rushes an innocent Kanter--and somehow Jokic avoids a tech--and Kanter gets one even though he didn't do anything wrong. No wonder the home court is strong in Denver.   

Sounds about right.

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1 minute ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

So Jokic completely shoves Kanter into a Denver player---Jamal Murray rushes off of the bench and rushes an innocent Kanter--and somehow Jokic avoids a tech--and Kanter gets one even though he didn't do anything wrong. No wonder the home court is strong in Denver.   

I don't think the whole situation was a very big deal. :Shrug:

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1 minute ago, Kev4029 said:

I don't think the whole situation was a very big deal. :Shrug:

In a game that's very close--the way the refs ruled that sequence absolutely screwed Portland over and gave Denver some life.  It only wasn't a big deal because the outcome of the game luckily made it not a big deal.  

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The best thing about this thread is all the ridiculous things people say after one game.  This team sucks.  This team is going to sweep.  They can't guard this guy.  That guy is unstoppable.  :lmao:

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8 minutes ago, Kev4029 said:

I don't think the whole situation was a very big deal. :Shrug:

The technical foul on Kanter was 100% bs

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11 minutes ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

So Jokic completely shoves Kanter into a Denver player---Jamal Murray rushes off of the bench and rushes an innocent Kanter--and somehow Jokic avoids a tech--and Kanter gets one even though he didn't do anything wrong. No wonder the home court is strong in Denver.   

I'm sure they will rescind it like Green and Nene last night 

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2 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

The best thing about this thread is all the ridiculous things people say after one game.  This team sucks.  This team is going to sweep.  They can't guard this guy.  That guy is unstoppable.  :lmao:

Don't agree with you often but yes the overreactions are extraordinary in here. It's almost like they've never seen playoff basketball where teams make adjustments after a game 1 loss.

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3 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

The technical foul on Kanter was 100% bs

I too was surprised he got one.

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I mean I'm resigned to the dude leaving, and it's cool, but good lord he's going to be (more) miserable.

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57 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

The best thing about this thread is all the ridiculous things people say after one game.  This team sucks.  This team is going to sweep.  They can't guard this guy.  That guy is unstoppable.  :lmao:

:bag:

 

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7 hours ago, tjnc09 said:

The best thing about this thread is all the ridiculous things people say after one game.  This team sucks.  This team is going to sweep.  They can't guard this guy.  That guy is unstoppable.  :lmao:

Same as day 1.

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Spike Eskin✔@SpikeEskin

Brett Brown (.588) has a higher playoff winning percentage than Brad Stevens (.509). :brush:

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1 hour ago, modogg said:

Spike Eskin✔@SpikeEskin

Brett Brown (.588) has a higher playoff winning percentage than Brad Stevens (.509). :brush:

Avery Bradley, Evan Turner, Tyler Zeller, Marcus Smart and Brandon Bass

vs.

Joel Embiid, JJ Redick, Ben Simmons, Dario Saric & Robert Covington

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1 hour ago, modogg said:

Spike Eskin✔@SpikeEskin

Brett Brown (.588) has a higher playoff winning percentage than Brad Stevens (.509). :brush:

Knocked by LBJ Cavs 3 out of 4 years

Missed playoffs:  Stevens 1x, Brown 4x

Playoffs H2H: Stevens 4 - Brown 1

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