supermike80
Footballguy
That seems excessive to me.
Just sayin
Just sayin
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18 dems are running for President now according to CNN (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter supermike80
- Start date
James Daulton
Footballguy
Lotta Trump hate out there.
The General
Footballguy
GREAT THREAD!
timschochet
Footballguy
all we need is one
supermike80
Footballguy
You all dont think that's overkill? Do you see it benefitting the democratic party? We all want change in the executive but I cant see how this helps.
Change my mind experts
Change my mind experts
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Jeb Bush. Ben Carson. Chris Christie. Ted Cruz. Carly Fiorina. Jim Gilmore. Lindsey Graham. Mike Huckabee. Bobby Jindal. John Kasich. George Pataki. Rand Paul. Rick Perry. Marco Rubio. Rick Santorum. Donald Trump. Scott Walker.
supermike80
Footballguy
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That one guy
Footballguy
They should probably have some sort of contest, like an election or something similar, in each state and that could determine who of the many is their overall candidate come presidential election. That task should be their primary concern
The Commish
Footballguy
What is the appropriate amount and why is that the number?
"Dear Mr. DNC Chairman. There are too many candidates in the race. Please eliminate three. I am NOT a crackpot."The Commish said:
The interesting thing is that, historically, when incumbents run for re-election there are at least a few high-profile candidates who opt out of the race. In 2012, it was Christie and Mitch Daniels. In 2004, it was Hillary. In '96, it was Colin Powell.
This year, they all seem to be running. Maybe that means they all see Trump as vulnerable. Maybe that means they're all consumed by hatred.
This year, they all seem to be running. Maybe that means they all see Trump as vulnerable. Maybe that means they're all consumed by hatred.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Yet there is only one Booty Judge.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
I'm already bored, when's the first debate?
It will all come down to, who hates President Trump more, and does the better job showing it.
It will work for the primaries (present voters included) but not so much when it goes outside the bubble.
It will work for the primaries (present voters included) but not so much when it goes outside the bubble.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I actually agree with you on this point. I will say it’s way too early, and the landscape is changed once Biden is in. It’s a little different than GOP 2016, because there was no Biden jumping in at 40%, and there is no Fox solidly pushing one candidate like they did with Trump, but I do worry about the field getting too split allowing some kind of populist campaign to take hold. I really don’t see that happening but I still think it would be better with a dozen or fewer.supermike80 said:
timschochet
Footballguy
I’m beginning to think Biden might have waited too long. Around here, @Sinn Fein and @NCCommish have argued that his 40% number was weak and would dissipate as soon as he entered. I was skeptical about that but now I’m beginning to think they might be right.
My other assumption was that if Biden faltered, Harris would be the one to beat, but so far she hasn’t grabbed the attention I expected her to. Neither has Beto, the other obvious choice. Strangely enough, this mayor from Indiana has come out of nowhere and stolen their thunder. I’m beginning to think that against all odds he might be the guy that eventually emerges. I can’t even believe I’m writing this.
timschochet
Footballguy
This didn’t happen. Fox, like the other networks, paid more attention to Trump because he was by far the most newsworthy and interesting candidate. But they didn’t push for him to win. If anything it was the opposite.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Mayor Pete made this exact point while running for DNC chair in 2017. He said the platform can't be about Trump.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I haven't been too focused because it's still a ways away but I don't recall hearing much at all about Trump when I see them on TV.
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squistion
Footballguy
It has been a stunning development. If someone had told me even 10 years ago that an openly gay man, married to a same sex partner would be considered a viable Presidential candidate by the Democrats, I would have asked them what they were smoking.
timschochet
Footballguy
If she said that Fox pushed for Trump, I can’t agree with her. It’s simply not accurate.
True, though if he were an openly gay man married to an opposite sex partner it would be even more stunning.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
There is other demonstrative data, like coverage minutes that spiked very quickly not long after he got in. - I’m not sure if motive - ideology vs entertainment- matters, the air time was definitely there early and heavy.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Interesting survey was done regarding Biden's support. When voters were given a straight up choice between Biden and Trump or someone else(unnamed) or not vote, Biden had a roughly 2% lead amongst those who choose between the two parties. But once the same survey subjects were given negative info about both such as Bidens support for the bankruptcy bill and Trump's regressive tax reforms that hurt the middle class Trump's support was more solid. He opened up a 7 point lead on Biden despite the survey group finding his positions more of a problem. By the way they mentioned several negative policies from both. The reason I went with the bankruptcy bill is this is the one that really seemed to turn off voters for Biden. What do you think happens when he announces and people start making hay of that? Because they will. And if they don't Trump certainly will in the general. Biden is coasting on electability as Obama's VP. But as I've said as soon as he enters the race he's Joe Biden again and his record is going to get hung around his neck. His numbers will come down.
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The Commish
Footballguy
We should probably tell the candidates this. Based on their campaigning thus far, they haven't gotten this memo.
timschochet
Footballguy
That’s true of all 3 channels. But if you use the phrase “pushed for” then motive is implied.
Mile High
Footballguy
I'm trying to remember exactly what she talked about in the article. It is certainly true that they gave him a lot of airtime in the early aughts even before he ran. There was the whole Megan Kelly dust-up at the debate, which ended with her out of a job. But my recollection is that they didn't really go in the tank for him until after he won the election.
I agree his record will probably hurt him, but I think his biggest hurdle is simply that he's Joe Biden. He hasn't faced a truly competitive race since 1972, and the other times he ran for president he flamed out very quickly. Maybe the goodwill and overall inertia of him being Obama's VP is enough to carry him over the finish line, but a) I see no evidence that he's become a better campaigner, b) he's in a much weaker position than others who have successfully executed the "air of inevitability" strategy (Hillary, Romney, W, Dole), and c) this is a far different Democratic Party than the one he came up in, and it's not at all clear that he recognizes that shift.
squistion
Footballguy
That is just one state and has been trending more progressive in recent years. Being gay is still an automatic disqualifier in the minds of many Americans. I would speculate that an openly gay candidate would cost minimally about 2-3% of potential voters (probably more like about 5%) and with the Presidential election being as close as it has been in recent years, that will be the margin between winning and losing.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
By the way, what does it even mean to say that the Democrats have "too many" candidates? Despite what you may hear in certain corners of Bernieville, the DNC is a mostly feckless organization that couldn't engineer a ham sandwich, much less a power play to force candidates from the race. And even if they could, I doubt anyone here would want them to.
I agree with the sentiments expressed by @That one guy and @NCCommish above: the early debates might be a little bit of a ####-show, but the field will winnow soon enough, first with the fringe candidates dropping out and then the mainstream ones who fail to catch on (looking at you, Gillibrand). My guess is that by the time the Iowa caucuses are done, we have a far more manageable and "normal" number.
I agree with the sentiments expressed by @That one guy and @NCCommish above: the early debates might be a little bit of a ####-show, but the field will winnow soon enough, first with the fringe candidates dropping out and then the mainstream ones who fail to catch on (looking at you, Gillibrand). My guess is that by the time the Iowa caucuses are done, we have a far more manageable and "normal" number.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Yeah I think we get down to 4-6 at the start of the primaries then very early we get down to 2-3. That is based on Biden not flaming out early.
supermike80
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
You're right. I mean whats "too many" heck I don't know. I guess I was hoping for a more honed strategy from the democrats---and of course it is early and they may get there.
Mayor Pete also openly kissed his partner on the cheek yesterday, which may take some people getting used to, even if they agree with his policies.
The General
Footballguy
If he were to get the nom that meant he built on this momentum and beat out a huge field. Those voters you talk about were probably not voting for any Dem and would be more than cancelled out by him picking up past non-voters IMO.
Kansas just elected a lesbian MMA fighter to Congress.
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NCCommish
Footballguy
The most Democratic friendly district in Kansas elected her not the whole state. It's also a pretty young fairly urban district. These things make a difference.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
It will be the one who best shows Trump the fool in an intelligent way with facts and does so with a smile on their face. Red faced hate works with the base but doesn't draw the middle. I'm starting to feel like Pete has the best chance of pulling off the right tone. Beat Trump by showing oneself to be mentally superior, (and he the mental midget) not by playing his game.
Make people feel like a fool or even dirty for thinking of voting for Trump. Making it a hate contest gives people a justification to vote against the opponent and not "for" Trump, but the result is the same.
In other words, just be likable and you're a shoo-in.
But as I say just how simple this can be, I can't shake the notion of Dems being unable to get out of their own way. I see how much over the top rhetoric gets spouted here and it seems what many Dems want is a hate fest. That plays right into Trump's hands. I get it, the temptation is to say things that quench the thirst for hate of Trump. But you've already got those votes. Go get the ones who pulled a lever in 2016 for Trump while holding their noses and walked out of the booth feeling justified because they voted against Hilary. Grabbing those votes is as simple as not getting pulled into the "hate game" and if grabbed you've got yourself a landslide.
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I think people forget this stuff a lot. I don't happen to believe Pete can win the nomination (though not because of his sexuality), but a world where he does looks very different from the one we're living in right now. At this point 12 years ago, lots of people thought an African American could never get elected president. But by the time Obama won the nomination, he was already the heavy favorite to win in November.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
That's true. Just think they are more votes to be picked up by young voters than they would lose by older voters that this is an issue.
NCCommish
Footballguy
The thing is those youth votes are likely to happen anyway. As are the urban votes. Bernie beats Pete with the youth vote for example and he does well with the African American vote. Which may be a problem for Pete given the whole police chief fiasco.
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