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What is the least American State? (1 Viewer)

I don't think there is a good answer, no state is "least American."  But both Hawaii and California are terrible choices. Hawaii, is quintessential American in terms of its acceptance of immigrants and its ethnic mix. Hawaii has produced the most decorated soldiers in the history of our Army (the Nisei 442nd during World War II.)

Both California and Hawaii have shameful histories, including racism as bad as anywhere in the USA, extermination of their native populations, corruption, and all sorts of terrible crimes and events. But they are both wonderful places to be.

 
timschochet said:
I don't think there is a good answer, no state is "least American."  But both Hawaii and California are terrible choices. Hawaii, is quintessential American in terms of its acceptance of immigrants and its ethnic mix. Hawaii has produced the most decorated soldiers in the history of our Army (the Nisei 442nd during World War II.)

Both California and Hawaii have shameful histories, including racism as bad as anywhere in the USA, extermination of their native populations, corruption, and all sorts of terrible crimes and events. But they are both wonderful places to be.
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It's a dumb question to begin with. The "most American" question was based on the hypothetical of where you could send a foreign visitor to get the broadest "American" experience- cities and rural areas, different cuisines and cultures, etc. Flipping the question around doesn't really work.

I guess if you tried it from that perspective (which state would give a visitor the least "American" experience if they traveled its expanse) it would obviously be Alaska IMO, but that doesn't make Alaska less "American." It's a pejorative characterization for most people, which IMO is the reason the OP did it in the first place.

 
TobiasFunke said:
I know you won't answer me but I explained it already.  You weren't asking the question in good faith, you just wanted to crap on California. 

This was already obvious in the OP because at least three and arguably as many as five of the things you listed are actually fairly common for America, so it made no sense to list them. But you let the already paper-thin veil of integrity slip later in the thread when you declared that you see overpopulation as a "negative, not a positive" which of course is irrelevant to whether it's American or not.
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Apparently the one and only purpose of this thread.

 
timschochet said:
I don't think there is a good answer, no state is "least American."  But both Hawaii and California are terrible choices. Hawaii, is quintessential American in terms of its acceptance of immigrants and its ethnic mix. Hawaii has produced the most decorated soldiers in the history of our Army (the Nisei 442nd during World War II.)

Both California and Hawaii have shameful histories, including racism as bad as anywhere in the USA, extermination of their native populations, corruption, and all sorts of terrible crimes and events. But they are both wonderful places to be.
Click to expand...
Having military bases doesn't make Hawaii quintessentially American.   Neither does its "ethnic mix"  or "acceptance."   Ever lived there, haole?    Hawaii is a long way from mainstream American, and the natives who are constantly battling the government to preserve their land and traditions would heavily disagree with being characterized as an example of traditional American values, unless you're talking about government land grabs and marginalizing natives.

 
If the idea is the state that a foreign visitor could visit and get a true picture of America the least, Hawaii is probably right.  For continental 48, I'd say Delaware.  See their predatory toll practices!  See the du Pont mansions!  See the best tax shelter this side of the Cayman Islands!  Bunch of parasitic leeches.

 
-fish- said:
Having military bases doesn't make Hawaii quintessentially American.   Neither does its "ethnic mix"  or "acceptance."   Ever lived there, haole?    Hawaii is a long way from mainstream American, and the natives who are constantly battling the government to preserve their land and traditions would heavily disagree with being characterized as an example of traditional American values, unless you're talking about government land grabs and marginalizing natives.
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I haven't lived there, but I've spent a lot of time there, spent a lot of time talking to non-haoles, and studying the history.  A couple of points:

1. I wasn't talking about the military bases. I brought up the 442nd divsion because the Japanese Americans who comprised it were among the most heroic soldiers who have ever lived. Facing tremendous discrimination including the forced internment of their families, they sacrified everything to fight for freedom and equality, and if I had to choose one single example of a group of people who exemplified the best of the American spirit, this would be it for sure.

2. There are very few full blooded Hawaiians remaining. Most of them died over 150 years ago due to measles, ill treatment, and the blatant stealing of their land by haoles. What has replaced this proud culture today is a polyglot of races- a man or woman who calls himself "native" is typically part Hawaiian, part Chinese, part Filipino, perhaps with some European and hispanic cultures thrown in.  This is what I meant by "ethnic mix". Yet they take the best of their cultural memories and as you point out, attempt to preserve their land and traditions. In both this struggle and their ethnic makeup they are quintessentially American.

 
timschochet said:
I haven't lived there, but I've spent a lot of time there, spent a lot of time talking to non-haoles, and studying the history.  A couple of points:

1. I wasn't talking about the military bases. I brought up the 442nd divsion because the Japanese Americans who comprised it were among the most heroic soldiers who have ever lived. Facing tremendous discrimination including the forced internment of their families, they sacrified everything to fight for freedom and equality, and if I had to choose one single example of a group of people who exemplified the best of the American spirit, this would be it for sure.

2. There are very few full blooded Hawaiians remaining. Most of them died over 150 years ago due to measles, ill treatment, and the blatant stealing of their land by haoles. What has replaced this proud culture today is a polyglot of races- a man or woman who calls himself "native" is typically part Hawaiian, part Chinese, part Filipino, perhaps with some European and hispanic cultures thrown in.  This is what I meant by "ethnic mix". Yet they take the best of their cultural memories and as you point out, attempt to preserve their land and traditions. In both this struggle and their ethnic makeup they are quintessentially American.
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is the US typically 70% non-white?  are state senates typically comprised of 0% GOP representation?  

get outside of tourist areas sometime.   under your argument, native reservations on the mainland are quintessentially American, when nothing could be further from the truth.  

 
supermike80 said:
Since we are discussing the most American...

I say California.

Overcrowded in many places, poisonous air, ungodly traffic, earthquakes, and taxes that make everything ridiculously expensive.

Oh and that "american dream" of owning a home?  Good luck with that in California.
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Dang. I need to move.  What a poophole.

 
I haven’t seen enough states to know if California is the least American.  I expect it’s not, but I think it’s a lot closer than many believe.

The deck is heavily stacked against the middle class in CA.  Environmentalism has largely put a halt to major infrastructure investments and adequate housing.  Obviously, environmentalism is not a bad thing, but in CA a handful of people can shut down development for years, even decades, skyrocketing costs for the few projects that can make it through the timeline.

Not a lot of people outside CA realize that Prop 13 applies to commercial and residential properties.  It essentially locks in family property tax rates indefinitely from the point of sale.  If someone’s parents bought a property decades ago that tax rate largely stays the same from generation to generation regardless of the rise in value.  Anyone in CA knows how much of CA’s wealth lies in RE.  That is a massive amount of generational tax gifting.  Add that to the housing shortage and you end up with a middle class that is priced out of the housing market unless they have a degree of generational wealth.  It also jacks up rent putting families that may have previously been able to afford housing out into the street and/or under tremendous pressure.

It’s a state where the poor can survive, but struggle to succeed; the middle class struggles to live within commuting range of the big job centers; and the wealthy camp on RE building giant nest eggs.  It’s nothing like what I would consider the American dream.  

My family has lived in CA since the 19th century so the system is rigged for me to a degree.  I struggle seeing the disparities and hypocrisy though.  It’s not a just system by any stretch of the imagination.

 
jonessed said:
I haven’t seen enough states to know if California is the least American.  I expect it’s not, but I think it’s a lot closer than many believe.

The deck is heavily stacked against the middle class in CA.  Environmentalism has largely put a halt to major infrastructure investments and adequate housing.  Obviously, environmentalism is not a bad thing, but in CA a handful of people can shut down development for years, even decades, skyrocketing costs for the few projects that can make it through the timeline.

Not a lot of people outside CA realize that Prop 13 applies to commercial and residential properties.  It essentially locks in family property tax rates indefinitely from the point of sale.  If someone’s parents bought a property decades ago that tax rate largely stays the same from generation to generation regardless of the rise in value.  Anyone in CA knows how much of CA’s wealth lies in RE.  That is a massive amount of generational tax gifting.  Add that to the housing shortage and you end up with a middle class that is priced out of the housing market unless they have a degree of generational wealth.  It also jacks up rent putting families that may have previously been able to afford housing out into the street and/or under tremendous pressure.

It’s a state where the poor can survive, but struggle to succeed; the middle class struggles to live within commuting range of the big job centers; and the wealthy camp on RE building giant nest eggs.  It’s nothing like what I would consider the American dream.  

My family has lived in CA since the 19th century so the system is rigged for me to a degree.  I struggle seeing the disparities and hypocrisy though.  It’s not a just system by any stretch of the imagination.
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Scary but a lot that sounds very 2019 America 

 
timschochet said:
It seems like every thread that supermike80 has started is in the pretense of an open-minded question, yet designed to attack some aspect of liberalism.
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There was a thread asking what state was most American.  I felt the counter was a good question.  And I stand by my contention that California is way up there.  Yeah i concede Hawaii is a better choice but California is not a good place to live in my opinion and doesnt really represent America the way I think it should.  Now the fact that California is largely liberal means absolutely nothing to me.  I dont put that much effort into political leanings.

If you can tell me how saying this is some sort of attack on liberalism I'll listen.  

 
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