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jmo87usc

Voluntary Mini Camp No Shows

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Posted (edited)

Ok so it's voluntary.  I get it.  But come on Le' Veon Bell and OBJ, can you please at least pretend that the job that supports your livelihood is important to you?   

I know these guys have crazy schedules and other interests, but are you telling me that you really couldn't shift things around to make it to a 3 day camp and show your new team that you really care?  It's so frustrating to see this trend with younger people in the workforce.  I see it all the time in my industry with young kids who would rather be anywhere but at work.  They put in the bare minimum at best.  I guess it doesn't matter if you make $10 an hour or $20 million a year, you can't teach people to care. 

Does this frustrate anyone else, or am I just being a crabby old guy?

Edited by jmo87usc
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Doesn't frustrate me. Anyone mad about this should be mad that the CBA makes them voluntary, not be mad at the players. Pretty dumb imo

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28 minutes ago, jmo87usc said:

Ok so it's voluntary.  I get it.  But come on Le' Veon Bell and OBJ, can you please at least pretend that the job that supports your livelihood is important to you?   

I know these guys have crazy schedules and other interests, but are you telling me that you really couldn't shift things around to make it to a 3 day camp and show your new team that you really care?  It's so frustrating to see this trend with younger people in the workforce.  I see it all the time in my industry with young kids who would rather be anywhere but at work.  They put in the bare minimum at best.  I guess it doesn't matter if you make $10 an hour or $20 million a year, you can't teach people to care. 

Does this frustrate anyone else, or am I just being a crabby old guy?

What is your industry, if you don’t mind me asking?  Do you regularly do work that you aren’t required to do, and don’t get compensated for?

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25 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

What is your industry, if you don’t mind me asking?  Do you regularly do work that you aren’t required to do, and don’t get compensated for?

If I was getting paid $15M/year, I would absolutely show up for workouts  (especially if it was with a new team/teammates) that are designed to help me be better at the craft that is earning me ungodly sums of money and fame.  I dont make $15M/year selling new homes, but I still attend training classes that are not required but will help me become better at my job.  I really dont think its a lot to ask that if you are going to get paid in the top 1% tier in America, you be willing to do a little extra to acclimate to your teammates and get yourself in better condition to perform and hopefully remain healthy for a full, vigorous season. Voluntary or not.  They should want to be there and if they dont they should do it anyway.

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15 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

What is your industry, if you don’t mind me asking?  Do you regularly do work that you aren’t required to do, and don’t get compensated for?

I work in the gas pipeline industry.  As a matter of fact there are times that we end up being asked to things that don't give direct compensation, like attend meetings and training to further our education and increase our qualifications.  These aren't always "required attendance", but your response to it certainly reflects your dedication.  And many of us know that receiving this education affords us more opportunities.  Compensation isn't always monetary.  

Would you attend an unpaid orientation at a new job, even if they said it was optional?  I certainly would.  I think most people would want their new employer to see how much they care.  Especially if you were brought on as one the highest paid employees and someone who will be looked to as a leader to others.

I think how you stated your question is the exact issue with these guys.  They only look at the immediate cost and reward rather than viewing the overall picture.  Guys want to be compensated for every little thing they do, but there has to be some give and take.  

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3 minutes ago, jmo87usc said:

I work in the gas pipeline industry.  As a matter of fact there are times that we end up being asked to things that don't give direct compensation, like attend meetings and training to further our education and increase our qualifications.  These aren't always "required attendance", but your response to it certainly reflects your dedication.  And many of us know that receiving this education affords us more opportunities.  Compensation isn't always monetary.  

Would you attend an unpaid orientation at a new job, even if they said it was optional?  I certainly would.  I think most people would want their new employer to see how much they care.  Especially if you were brought on as one the highest paid employees and someone who will be looked to as a leader to others.

I think how you stated your question is the exact issue with these guys.  They only look at the immediate cost and reward rather than viewing the overall picture.  Guys want to be compensated for every little thing they do, but there has to be some give and take.  

Right on.  $15M  is not enough to take 3 days out of your life - where you have no other job - to show up and be a part of the team?  Totally unacceptable in OBJ and Bell's cases with a new team and teammates on top of the enormous contracts that they received.  Think Walter Payton or Jerry Rice would have pulled this crap?  Kids today, I tell you...

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If I'm making millions of dollars per season, I'm going to HEAVILY weigh the risk of a career- or season-ending injury against the fact that this is 100% a voluntary event.

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10 minutes ago, jmo87usc said:

I work in the gas pipeline industry.  As a matter of fact there are times that we end up being asked to things that don't give direct compensation, like attend meetings and training to further our education and increase our qualifications.  These aren't always "required attendance", but your response to it certainly reflects your dedication.  And many of us know that receiving this education affords us more opportunities.  Compensation isn't always monetary.  

Would you attend an unpaid orientation at a new job, even if they said it was optional?  I certainly would.  I think most people would want their new employer to see how much they care.  Especially if you were brought on as one the highest paid employees and someone who will be looked to as a leader to others.

I think how you stated your question is the exact issue with these guys.  They only look at the immediate cost and reward rather than viewing the overall picture.  Guys want to be compensated for every little thing they do, but there has to be some give and take.  

But attending the voluntary camps for NFL players (establishes ones like OBJ, anyway) aren’t the same as your meetings & trainings that, in your own words, “affords you more opportunities.”  OBJ isn’t going to get less PT because he didn’t attend & he wouldn’t have gotten more PT if he had.

Your next question is more relevant.  Yes, I’d attend an unpaid orientation at a new job.  Just as many rookie or fringe players fighting for jobs attend these voluntary camps.  Because they can benefit from their attendance.  

You say there has to be some give and take.  Let’s assume that OBJ gives and attends.  The team/owners take that.  What are they giving to OBJ?

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12 minutes ago, ChuckLiddell said:

Right on.  $15M  is not enough to take 3 days out of your life - where you have no other job - to show up and be a part of the team?  Totally unacceptable in OBJ and Bell's cases with a new team and teammates on top of the enormous contracts that they received.  Think Walter Payton or Jerry Rice would have pulled this crap?  Kids today, I tell you...

Since voluntary camps didn’t exist when Payton and Rice played, I’ll guess no.  I’ll get off your lawn now, grandpa.😉

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3 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

If I'm making millions of dollars per season, I'm going to HEAVILY weigh the risk of a career- or season-ending injury against the fact that this is 100% a voluntary event.

So should they skip practices too?  Skip all preseason activity and just play on Sundays when if you get hurt at least you got hurt in a meaningful moment?  I get that those are not voluntary, but if they were would you avoid risking injury on the practice field?  Isnt this kind of like a practice with a different name due to a CBA?

Their salary is still guaranteed even if they get hurt in an offseason voluntary camp.  They are risking missing time, just like every player who does show up is risking missing time.  They are not risking money, so your statement that "if I am making millions of dollars..." is irrelevant.  Theyre making that money regardless.

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This has nothing to do with Millennial's being lazy.  It's true, but this is voluntary and it's an unnecessary risk for Bell or OBJ to take.  

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1 minute ago, ChuckLiddell said:

So should they skip practices too?  Skip all preseason activity and just play on Sundays when if you get hurt at least you got hurt in a meaningful moment?  I get that those are not voluntary, but if they were would you avoid risking injury on the practice field?  Isnt this kind of like a practice with a different name due to a CBA?

Their salary is still guaranteed even if they get hurt in an offseason voluntary camp.  They are risking missing time, just like every player who does show up is risking missing time.  They are not risking money, so your statement that "if I am making millions of dollars..." is irrelevant.  Theyre making that money regardless.

I would add...the players who do NOT have huge guaranteed salaries are the ones actually risking something by showing up.  OBJ and Bell are risking nothing more than anyone else - arguably a lot less.

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Just now, beef said:

This has nothing to do with Millennial's being lazy.  It's true, but this is voluntary and it's an unnecessary risk for Bell or OBJ to take.  

LOL but not for everyone else who does show up?  They should just cancel all practices for everyone.  Holy smokes this is a ridiculous conversation.

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1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Doesn't frustrate me. Anyone mad about this should be mad that the CBA makes them voluntary, not be mad at the players. Pretty dumb imo

I agree with you 100% that it is dumb to make it voluntary to begin with.   Like Chuck said as well, why not just skip the whole thing altogether.  

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15 minutes ago, ChuckLiddell said:

So should they skip practices too?  Skip all preseason activity and just play on Sundays when if you get hurt at least you got hurt in a meaningful moment?  I get that those are not voluntary, but if they were would you avoid risking injury on the practice field?  Isnt this kind of like a practice with a different name due to a CBA?

Their salary is still guaranteed even if they get hurt in an offseason voluntary camp.  They are risking missing time, just like every player who does show up is risking missing time.  They are not risking money, so your statement that "if I am making millions of dollars..." is irrelevant.  Theyre making that money regardless.

I agree that this conversation is a giant ####### waste of time, but these guys have literally zero reason to be there.  They aren't fighting for their jobs and they have months to establish report with their new teams, especially when they are obligated to attend.

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25 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

If I'm making millions of dollars per season, I'm going to HEAVILY weigh the risk of a career- or season-ending injury against the fact that this is 100% a voluntary event.

 

16 minutes ago, beef said:

This has nothing to do with Millennial's being lazy.  It's true, but this is voluntary and it's an unnecessary risk for Bell or OBJ to take.  

This is a very popular argument and i get it.   But these guys aren’t wrapping themselves in bubble wrap and laying in bed until the season starts.  They are out creating their own risks by doing their own workouts, playing pickup basketball at local gyms, shooting rap videos whatever their choice.   

I just feel it creates a very poor me first attitude when you have a chance to bond with your team.  OBJ claims he wants to win so bad, but  seems to make the news for being absent from team activities quite a bit.  

I just think these guys are squandering good opportunities here.   No one says they have to go crazy at these things.   Just show up and let your new teammates know that you are one of them.  

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Bell missing the first camp after having no football activities in, what, 18 months is hilarious.

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Posted (edited)

Hate to burst the bubble here but Brady isn’t attending the voluntary workouts. He didn’t last year either.

Edited by Ilov80s

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Also nobody should be surprised Bell isn’t attending. When was the last time he did? Plus he’s made it very clear he feels he’s not paid what he’s worth.

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7 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Hate to burst the bubble here but Brady isn’t attending the voluntary workouts. He didn’t last year either.

I knew someone would bring him up and rightly so.  I hate to say there are exceptions but there are.  I personally would show up just because it’s who I am but I can not judge a man with 6 rings who 100% has the trust of his coach to be prepared when it’s time.   Plus he’s not new to the team.  But still good call

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36 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Also nobody should be surprised Bell isn’t attending. When was the last time he did? Plus he’s made it very clear he feels he’s not paid what he’s worth.

Bell has made it very clear he’s a mercenary. If (big if), the Jets were to make the playoffs, i’d be concerned about his effort level when he goes from making ~1M per regular game to ~20K for the first playoff game. 

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9 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Bell has made it very clear he’s a mercenary. If (big if), the Jets were to make the playoffs, i’d be concerned about his effort level when he goes from making ~1M per regular game to ~20K for the first playoff game. 

Do we know if he has playoff incentives? It’s like $200k if they win a SB so that and the glory is probably enough to get high effort from Bell. Although it’s the Jets so this conversation probably isn’t relevant.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

Hate to burst the bubble here but Brady isn’t attending the voluntary workouts. He didn’t last year either.

Whos bubble are you bursting? He should be there too imo

Edited by Cowboysfan8

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Good chance these “voluntary” workouts become mandatory in the next CBA in exchange for smoking weed. That and/or the players get less money, but are allowed to smoke weed.

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2 hours ago, Edgar said:

Bell has made it very clear he’s a mercenary. If (big if), the Jets were to make the playoffs, i’d be concerned about his effort level when he goes from making ~1M per regular game to ~20K for the first playoff game. 

I think he'll give all knowing that performance impacts him seeing his contract the next year.

I traded for Bell last week and afterward had a negative thought. If say after 2-3 years the Jets are done making him one of the highest paid RB's in the league, which I think is likely,  what then? If he is say entering his age 29 season in 2021 and the Jets have moved on and best he can get is in line with $4-5M in today's market it might be an issue.

As for not showing up I think it's especially important for new players, especially big time new additions to show up. If this was Bell or Odell's second camp with their new teams this is nothing. As is I think this is a bad look, makes them look selfish and not interested in the team and all that entails.

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57 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Whos bubble are you bursting? He should be there too imo

The guy saying it’s a millennial issue and harping on kids these days 

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

The guy saying it’s a millennial issue and harping on kids these days 

Ah...sorry

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I see voluntary workouts as an opportunity for guys who are on the bubble to make the team to show the coaches what they got, and for those who aren't the stars to get in some extra practice to start getting into game shape. I don't see it necessary for OBJ and Bell to be out on the field with everyone else and risk injury, but showing up and doing some light workouts on the side would show they were dedicated to winning.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Tom Brady and Matt Stafford didn't attend either

 

Well Stafford's wife is battling a very serious illness.  He gets a pass.  Brady gets a pass too because he has played in the same offense with the same coach for almost 2 decades and he is 41 years old. 

Bell and OBJ are both in brand new offenses with brand new teammates and both just got paid massive, ridiculous amounts of money and yet not only do they feel it is fine to do the bare required minimum, but there are actually people out there that think thats perfectly ok (not referencing you, just responding to your post with some extra thoughts).  To each his own.  it just surprises me that people think this is OK.  I find it selfish, immature, lazy, and arrogant.  Maybe I am an old man at 48, but in this case I will take my values over those of some people from the next generation that see no issue with this.

Disclaimer:  I dont know what the reasons for their absences are.  If it is for health or family reasons, then none of what I said applies.  

Edited by ChuckLiddell
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There’s a chance Bell isn’t in shape yet and doesn’t want the media riding his tail the next three months...

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9 hours ago, Edgar said:

There’s a chance Bell isn’t in shape yet and doesn’t want the media riding his tail the next three months...

You might be on to something

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On 4/23/2019 at 1:19 PM, Bayhawks said:

But attending the voluntary camps for NFL players (establishes ones like OBJ, anyway) aren’t the same as your meetings & trainings that, in your own words, “affords you more opportunities.”  

I actually disagree. 

I don't have a real dog in this fight, I think vets have the absolute right to miss out on voluntary workouts, and it's not going to affect them in terms of making them rustier or not getting their looks. I don't get bent out of shape if they are voluntary to begin with.

However, the point @jmo87usc makes in that Bell and OBJ are brand new to their team is one that I think can make a difference for these kinds of players.

The preseason is short and has only gotten shorter over time, with less games, less practice, less chance to be at the facility with a complement of coaching staff and supporting players, less chance to familiarize playbooks -- and most importantly, less time to find a groove with your new QB or your blocking linemen.

In addition to being a class move, it's also a chance for a vet to set a tone with a brand new team -- come in with the rooks and bubble guys and set a work ethic example. Cement yourself as a leader.

It's not the end of the world if a vet doesn't show up for voluntary camp. But it certainly doesn't hurt, and I think only helps - the player and the team around him.

 

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Posted (edited)

I'd be out there every minute of everything having to do with my football job. It would be.....you really do have to go now Zeno, we are locking things up.

Way too many wimps out there anymore.  Especially.....only 12 million?....how am I gonna make it?

Just one time I;d love to hear about some rookie.

vet....ok rookie, how about that fight song, hit it.

rookie....you talking to me tubby, I;m not singing a damn thing and none of you old geezars can make me, now do we have an understanding?

Instant leader (if the kid works his butt off on the field)

Edited by ZenoRazon

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As a Brady fan, I don't think that he needs to attend to get better at football. However, it would be a leadership thing to do and wish he would.

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9 minutes ago, brun said:

As a Brady fan, I don't think that he needs to attend to get better at football. However, it would be a leadership thing to do and wish he would.

I would say the same about Bell and OBJ and Jalen Ramsey. They aren’t getting better by being at these. Half the guys they are just jogging and doing some stretches.

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8 hours ago, brun said:

As a Brady fan, I don't think that he needs to attend to get better at football. However, it would be a leadership thing to do and wish he would.

I don't think HE needs to get any better at football but if NE had signed some new obvious starting receivers I absolutely do think he should be at voluntary workouts. That wasn't really the case this year(I don't think Thomas is a full go) but I can't help but wonder if he would have been there if they had signed.... Tyrell Williams and Cook and Tate for instance.

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12 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

The preseason is short and has only gotten shorter over time, with less games, less practice, less chance to be at the facility with a complement of coaching staff and supporting players, less chance to familiarize playbooks -- and most importantly, less time to find a groove with your new QB or your blocking linemen.

In addition to being a class move, it's also a chance for a vet to set a tone with a brand new team -- come in with the rooks and bubble guys and set a work ethic example. Cement yourself as a leader.

It's not the end of the world if a vet doesn't show up for voluntary camp. But it certainly doesn't hurt, and I think only helps - the player and the team around him.

This is where I am, too.

If you think of yourself as a franchise player, and expect to be paid like a franchise player, I don't think it's unreasonable if people expect to you put in extra work. As Stompin' Tom Connors said there is less actual work on the field than there used to be. Aren't most of these guys working out on their own during the offseason anyway?

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On 4/23/2019 at 10:52 PM, jmo87usc said:

This is a very popular argument and i get it.   But these guys aren’t wrapping themselves in bubble wrap and laying in bed until the season starts.  They are out creating their own risks by doing their own workouts, playing pickup basketball at local gyms, shooting rap videos whatever their choice.   

Yeah, the injury argument seems pretty weak to me. If a star showed up and had a "tight hammy", just attended and did his normal weight room and running that he normally does in the off-season.... is anyone going to complain? It's showing up that counts.

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On 4/23/2019 at 5:01 PM, Bojang0301 said:

Bell missing the first camp after having no football activities in, what, 18 months is hilarious.

And totally predictable.   

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I hear ya but there are times where I'll work some extra hours to get projects done on time, meet deadlines, etc.   I don't have to do it and don't get paid extra when I do but I do it because I care about my job and the company I work for.    

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As a Jets fan, I'm none too happy about Bell not showing up. I don't care to look at it as a labor issue. I look at it as a fan of the team, and it's better for the team if he's there, acclimating himself with his teammates and coaches and being a leader -- especially for the amount of quid he's getting against the cap. 

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Like Reggie Wayne once said "I am not that smart but I do know what voluntary means"

 

 

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1 hour ago, Da Guru said:

Like Reggie Wayne once said "I am not that smart but I do know what voluntary means"

 

 

Sure.  But in the Bell and OBJ cases they could voluntarily show up to show support for their new team/teammates.

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42 minutes ago, Steeler said:

Sure.  But in the Bell and OBJ cases they could voluntarily show up to show support for their new team/teammates.

Or even just get to have a cursory conversation with them.

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1 hour ago, Steeler said:

Sure.  But in the Bell and OBJ cases they could voluntarily show up to show support for their new team/teammates.

Anyone surprised?  Remember we are talking about Bell and Beckham here.

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Posted (edited)

I’m guessing Crowell wishes he skipped minicamp with his new team. How does an injury during non mandatory minicamp work? Can the team cut him and not have to pay him the $700k salary?

Edited by Ilov80s

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30 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I’m guessing Crowell wishes he skipped minicamp with his new team. How does an injury during non mandatory minicamp work? Can the team cut him and not have to pay him the $700k salary?

But he did the "right" thing and showed his new team that his job is important to him and showed his new team that he really cares.  He did that little extra to acclimate himself to his new teammates, showed that he doesn't have a very poor me first attitude, he bonded with his new team, and let his new teammates know that he is one of them.

Surely the Raiders will reward him for this by giving him another contract, right?  Even though they don't have to, they would reward him for showing up for this voluntary workout by voluntarily giving him another contract, right?

Because it works both ways, right?

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Crowell's foot problems likely go back to last season when he missed time with the Jets. If not camp, then probably a time bomb. I still don't see how this needs to be viewed as a labor issue where one incident leads to an "I told you so" attitude. People that are siding with the players' union constantly can just be pointed to Le'Veon Bell's last year as the biggest "I told you so" there was.

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