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Voluntary Mini Camp No Shows (1 Viewer)

rockaction said:
Crowell's foot problems likely go back to last season when he missed time with the Jets. If not camp, then probably a time bomb. I still don't see how this needs to be viewed as a labor issue where one incident leads to an "I told you so" attitude. People that are siding with the players' union constantly can just be pointed to Le'Veon Bell's last year as the biggest "I told you so" there was.
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This post doesn't make a lot of sense.

1--Crowell went on IR last year b/c of a toe injury; I'm not a doctor, but I'm pretty sure the toe and achilles are two different body parts.

2-This isn't one incident.  Same thing happened to Crabtree a few years ago.  

3-It's not an "i told you so" thing, it's a "common sense" thing.  If a player sustains a serious injury, he is not going to command as much money on his next contract (barring a few, minor exceptions like a young QB), so it doesn't make sense to expose oneself to the possibility for serious injury where one's future earnings could be detrimentally impacted, when there is no postiive benefit to one's future earnings.  It's why the "I go to un-paid training sessions because they will help my career" argument is invalid.  Going to voluntary workouts doesn't boost these player's future earning potential and they can hurt them.  It's all risk, no reward.

 
Ilov80s said:
I’m guessing Crowell wishes he skipped minicamp with his new team. How does an injury during non mandatory minicamp work? Can the team cut him and not have to pay him the $700k salary?
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Not sure if a workout bonus can be tied to OTA's but he has a $95K workout bonus in his contract. I also believe he gets paid his full salary, might have just got cut if he no showed. So not sure he'd have done a thing differently even if he knew the outcome.

 
Bayhawks said:
But he did the "right" thing and showed his new team that his job is important to him and showed his new team that he really cares.  He did that little extra to acclimate himself to his new teammates, showed that he doesn't have a very poor me first attitude, he bonded with his new team, and let his new teammates know that he is one of them.

Surely the Raiders will reward him for this by giving him another contract, right?  Even though they don't have to, they would reward him for showing up for this voluntary workout by voluntarily giving him another contract, right?

Because it works both ways, right?
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An older RB with an injury nobody has ever really come back from? I highly doubt he gets another contract with the Raiders and odds are he won’t ever play another NFL down. 

ETA: I’m dumb and missed the sarcasm here 

 
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menobrown said:
Not sure if a workout bonus can be tied to OTA's but he has a $95K workout bonus in his contract. I also believe he gets paid his full salary, might have just got cut if he no showed. So not sure he'd have done a thing differently even if he knew the outcome.
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I know he had the chance to earn 2.5 million this year if he hit his bonuses. It would have been pretty surprising imo if he didn’t make the team. Everything I read had him as a lock. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure they can and will just cut him and he will only get the $300k guaranteed signing bonus and lose his whole salary.

 
Ilov80s said:
I know he had the chance to earn 2.5 million this year if he hit his bonuses. It would have been pretty surprising imo if he didn’t make the team. Everything I read had him as a lock. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure they can and will just cut him and he will only get the $300k guaranteed signing bonus and lose his whole salary.
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I think if he did not show up for OTA's after they just used a first round pick on a RB he'd have been cut. That's what I meant. Fringe roster players can't go around skipping OTA's. So if he did not show up for OTA's he might have a healthy achilles but would probably be a FA hoping to find a job and possibly not able. Instead he just made over $800K because I'm fairly certain he gets his full base pay.

 
menobrown said:
I think if he did not show up for OTA's after they just used a first round pick on a RB he'd have been cut. That's what I meant. Fringe roster players can't go around skipping OTA's. So if he did not show up for OTA's he might have a healthy achilles but would probably be a FA hoping to find a job and possibly not able. Instead he just made over $800K because I'm fairly certain he gets his full base pay.
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Maybe that was part of a secret agreement. The Raiders don’t exactly have a great backfield though and they signed Crowell right away so it seems like they wanted him. It seems like Jacobs will replace Lynch and Crow was to replace Martin. Richard would be the pass catching back and then Washington and Warren would Battle for the last spot. But who knows. As far as I can tell, getting hurt and getting cut before the season starts doesn’t give a player his base salary. Maybe I’m wrong but I think that’s what is meant when say non-guaranteed.

 
rockaction said:
Crowell's foot problems likely go back to last season when he missed time with the Jets. If not camp, then probably a time bomb. I still don't see how this needs to be viewed as a labor issue where one incident leads to an "I told you so" attitude. People that are siding with the players' union constantly can just be pointed to Le'Veon Bell's last year as the biggest "I told you so" there was.
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His achilles injury being a ticking time bomb vs a freak accident is total speculation. It is a labor issue and what does Lev Bell last year have to do with non-voluntary workouts? He took a gamble and it didn’t pay off.

 
Ilov80s said:
As far as I can tell, getting hurt and getting cut before the season starts doesn’t give a player his base salary.
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He will get his full base salary.  As a vested vet he's not eligible to sign a split contract and any player put on IR who does not have a split contract gets paid their full base pay and he will be put on IR.

 
menobrown said:
He will get his full base salary.  As a vested vet he's not eligible to sign a split contract and any player put on IR who does not have a split contract gets paid their full base pay and he will be put on IR.
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That’s good then and changes things, thanks. Why isn’t it considered guaranteed money tho?

 
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Ilov80s said:
That’s good then and changes things, thanks. Why isn’t it considered guaranteed money tho?
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Had he not hurt himself and they decided they did not want him they could have cut him and only had to pay his bonus. He can't be cut now. He can be waived/injured if he reached a settlement but he'd have no reason to do that unless he actually thought he'd be able to play later in the year and someone else would sign him.

 
menobrown said:
Had he not hurt himself and they decided they did not want him they could have cut him and only had to pay his bonus. He can't be cut now. He can be waived/injured if he reached a settlement but he'd have no reason to do that unless he actually thought he'd be able to play later in the year and someone else would sign him.
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Thanks. It’s not quite as bad for him. At least he will get his $1 million but it does likely means his football career is over. 

 
You can second guess every move you make in hindsight.   These guys get paid to be in shape, learn playbooks, practice plays, build rapport with team, then execute during games.  It’s all part of their job, not just playing on sundays from September to February.  

They know they risk injury every day.  It’s no worse getting injured in a light voluntary workout, than in a game that counted.   The risk is always there and it’s all part of their “job”.  

I respect Crowell for being there and as much as it sucks, he’d probably be there again if you asked him.  You can’t live scared.  

 
jmo87usc said:
I respect Crowell for being there and as much as it sucks, he’d probably be there again if you asked him.  
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I’m sure your respect outweighs the $1+ million he might have made if he hadn’t hurt himself & got another year or 2 out of his career.

jmo87usc: ”Hey, Isaiah, if you knew you were going to blow your Achilles out & probably end your NFL career by attending a voluntary workout, would you do it again?”

IC: “Are you serious?”

 
jmo87usc said:
You can second guess every move you make in hindsight.   These guys get paid to be in shape, learn playbooks, practice plays, build rapport with team, then execute during games.  It’s all part of their job, not just playing on sundays from September to February.  

They know they risk injury every day.  It’s no worse getting injured in a light voluntary workout, than in a game that counted.   The risk is always there and it’s all part of their “job”.  

I respect Crowell for being there and as much as it sucks, he’d probably be there again if you asked him.  You can’t live scared.  
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I’m sure these guys have access to the playbooks when they are away from the practice facility. I’m sure they can workout away from the practice facility. They can even build rapport with their teammates away from the practice facility.

 
Bayhawks said:
I’m sure your respect outweighs the $1+ million he might have made if he hadn’t hurt himself & got another year or 2 out of his career.

jmo87usc: ”Hey, Isaiah, if you knew you were going to blow your Achilles out & probably end your NFL career by attending a voluntary workout, would you do it again?”

IC: “Are you serious?”
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If I knew I was DEFINITELY going to blow my Achilles, I wouldn’t go either.   But if you told me “there is a CHANCE you blow your Achilles again”, I would have to man up and take the chance.  Because it’s my job and I would feel awful knowing that most, if not all of my coworkers were present taking the same risk.  

Yenrub said:
I’m sure these guys have access to the playbooks when they are away from the practice facility. I’m sure they can workout away from the practice facility. They can even build rapport with their teammates away from the practice facility.
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Sure they can.  And they can get just as injured doing these things.  They can also show up when there is a voluntary mini camp being held and show their teammates that they don’t consider themselves more important than the rest of the team.  

 My point is the very large salary that these guys make is not just for what they do from September to February.  I can understand avoiding highly dangerous activities in order to protect your livelihood.  But avoiding your livelihood to protect your livelihood just seems silly to me.  

 
jmo87usc said:
If I knew I was DEFINITELY going to blow my Achilles, I wouldn’t go either.   But if you told me “there is a CHANCE you blow your Achilles again”, I would have to man up and take the chance.  Because it’s my job and I would feel awful knowing that most, if not all of my coworkers were present taking the same risk. 
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What are lies I tell on a FF message board because if I was ever actually in the position where my future livelihood could be endangered for a voluntary activity, I wouldn’t actually risk that to “man up,” Alex?

 
jmo87usc said:
If I knew I was DEFINITELY going to blow my Achilles, I wouldn’t go either.   But if you told me “there is a CHANCE you blow your Achilles again”, I would have to man up and take the chance.  Because it’s my job and I would feel awful knowing that most, if not all of my coworkers were present taking the same risk.  

Sure they can.  And they can get just as injured doing these things.  They can also show up when there is a voluntary mini camp being held and show their teammates that they don’t consider themselves more important than the rest of the team.  

 My point is the very large salary that these guys make is not just for what they do from September to February.  I can understand avoiding highly dangerous activities in order to protect your livelihood.  But avoiding your livelihood to protect your livelihood just seems silly to me.  
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I believe that time is called mandatory mini camps

 
Bayhawks said:
I’m sure your respect outweighs the $1+ million he might have made if he hadn’t hurt himself & got another year or 2 out of his career.

jmo87usc: ”Hey, Isaiah, if you knew you were going to blow your Achilles out & probably end your NFL career by attending a voluntary workout, would you do it again?”

IC: “Are you serious?”
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Do you really need be this arrogant?

 
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