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Dr. Dan

Mecole Hardman WR KC

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1 hour ago, ChiefD said:

Some random thoughts from a Chiefs fan on their WR situation (they are really thin actually):

1. Watkins will maybe play 10 games if the Chiefs are lucky

2. Robinson is the sleeper pick this year in my opinion. He and Mahomes had great rapport in preseason games in Mahomes first year when he sat on the bench.

3. Keep your eye on Byron Pringle. Sat on the practice squad all last year. There have been some rumblings about him.

4. Hardman gets maybe 3-4 touches a game this year. Expect screens and shallow crosses or slants. Maybe a deep ball here or there.

6. Reid knows offense. If they wanted this kid, he will produce. But his offense is predicated on receivers knowing a large route tree. Hard to pick up in year one.

 

I’ll add one on top of those. If Hardman becomes a thing, it will be later in the season just like Hill was as a rookie. Rookie WRs take time anyway but if the intention is to use Hardman similarly to how Hill was used, we may not even see that creativity until mid season and maybe won’t see it produce until towards the end. Patience

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Came here to flip flop on Hardman.  I think I've been overthinking this.

So what if he's not Tyreek Hill, who is? At the end of the day, with Hill out of the picture Hardman is the best deep threat on the team.

 

Literally, Hardman's strength feeds right into Patrick Mahomes strength. Gotta think he'll get a deep bomb thrown to him at least 1-2 times a game.

He's accelerate past double coverage fast. With a little Andy Reid seasoning, why not?

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3 minutes ago, Raptors409 said:

Came here to flip flop on Hardman.  I think I've been overthinking this.

So what if he's not Tyreek Hill, who is? At the end of the day, with Hill out of the picture Hardman is the best deep threat on the team.

 

Literally, Hardman's strength feeds right into Patrick Mahomes strength. Gotta think he'll get a deep bomb thrown to him at least 1-2 times a game.

He's accelerate past double coverage fast. With a little Andy Reid seasoning, why not?

I think people misread the hype as he will a tyreek hill clone, but that's not the case. I am seeing this as how you described it. He is my WR6 right now and it seems just about right. However a lot of people would disagree with my list in general

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Chiefs Rookie Minicamp: Five Observations From Day 1

Excerpt:

Quote

Finally, receiver Mecole Hardman—the Chiefs’ first pick in this past draft (No. 56 overall), who was considered “fast” by all draft analysts and anyone who ever watched him play, showed that he is, in fact, very fast. He took a couple of quick throws on the outside and showed a gear that looks to be at an NFL level already. It stood out.

 

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I think he's close to Tyreek but a lot like Djax. No one knows how his game will mature. It's purely a faith based guess at this point.

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So he received for 550 yards in his 3rd full year at Georgia, fewer yards and TDs (5 to 7) than teammate Riley Ridley with both well under 20% of the team receiving total. And he was just as fast there as he will be here. No indication of dominance. Not a background that makes me expect him to quickly dominate in the NFL, great QB or no. I won't say he can't get there, but I'll sure bet against him doing it this year.  

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Wearing Superman pajamas doesn't make you Superman and wearing a Chiefs uniform won't make this guy Tyreek. 

I like the draft slot and situation, but he goes 5-10 spots higher in my rookie drafts than where I'd be willing to take him. 

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4 hours ago, EBF said:

Wearing Superman pajamas doesn't make you Superman

:sadbanana:

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On 5/6/2019 at 12:09 AM, Catbird said:

So he received for 550 yards in his 3rd full year at Georgia, fewer yards and TDs (5 to 7) than teammate Riley Ridley with both well under 20% of the team receiving total. And he was just as fast there as he will be here. No indication of dominance. Not a background that makes me expect him to quickly dominate in the NFL, great QB or no. I won't say he can't get there, but I'll sure bet against him doing it this year.  

I hate to bring up Tyreek once again because he won't be Tyreek, but Hill was 6th on his own team in receiving in college and he was just as fast there as he was in the NFL as well.

There is a big difference between giving a speedy guy to Fromm/Smart than giving him to Mahomes/Reid.  That is far from any guarantee that Hardman will ever develop into anything but he will get a lot more opportunity to do so in KC than he did in college.

 

On 5/6/2019 at 12:31 AM, EBF said:

Wearing Superman pajamas doesn't make you Superman and wearing a Chiefs uniform won't make this guy Tyreek. 

I like the draft slot and situation, but he goes 5-10 spots higher in my rookie drafts than where I'd be willing to take him. 

I think people are overthinking this.  Hardman is a fast guy that KC just traded up in the 2nd round to pair with the best deep ball throwing QB in recent history and he's available in the late 1st/early 2nd rounds of a really weak draft class.  If the dude was literally some guy pulled off the track team who had never played a down of football in his life he'd be worth that kind of pick in this class.

Edited by FreeBaGeL
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On 5/6/2019 at 1:31 AM, EBF said:

 

 he goes 5-10 spots higher in my rookie drafts than where I'd be willing to take him. 

His value seems to ride the same roller coaster as Tyreek.  Noticed when drafts first started he was going in high to middle round one. Then the letter Tyreek's attorney put out along with some new information picked Reek's value back up and knocked Hardman back down. He went 15th in two FFPC style drafts of mine from this past week and 11th in a straight PPR league. That's adjustment is about right to me, but would agree at one point he was going about 5-10 spots higher then he should.

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29 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I think people are overthinking this.  Hardman is a fast guy that KC just traded up in the 2nd round to pair with the best deep ball throwing QB in recent history and he's available in the late 1st/early 2nd rounds of a really weak draft class.  If the dude was literally some guy pulled off the track team who had never played a down of football in his life he'd be worth that kind of pick in this class.

You still have to believe he's a good player, otherwise he'll just be another Sammie Coates/Phillip Dorsett/Aaron Dobson.

Chris Conley is fast, was a 3rd round pick in 2015, and didn't have any FF value last year on that team.

Even with an elite QB, a WR needs a certain amount of talent to capitalize.

If you think Hardman is a good player then by all means take him, but a great opportunity on its own doesn't have any value. It only has value in conjunction with a player who is good enough to take advantage of the opportunity.

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On 5/6/2019 at 2:09 AM, Catbird said:

So he received for 550 yards in his 3rd full year at Georgia, fewer yards and TDs (5 to 7) than teammate Riley Ridley with both well under 20% of the team receiving total. And he was just as fast there as he will be here. No indication of dominance. Not a background that makes me expect him to quickly dominate in the NFL, great QB or no. I won't say he can't get there, but I'll sure bet against him doing it this year.  

Hardman was a QB in high school and was a DB his freshman year at Georgia.  In just his 2nd year ever playing WR he put up those numbers while competing for targets with NFL level targets in Ridley, Nauta, Godwin and Holloman against an SEC schedule.   He will likely need some seasoning in the NFL but his entire profile scream massive upside.  

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He did not improve noticeably from his sophomore to junior year. To me, his whole profile screams speed and not a lot of receiving skills. Great speed gives him a chance to be great and chance to be worthless. Assuming he falls somewhere between, I wish him the best and think Reid will maximize his chances. I am clear that the NFL teams have a lot more information on rookies and are a lot better at making use of it than I am.. I'll still take a player who has shown something more about playing the position and game with my first round pick.

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Not a fan of Hardman or his profile. Outside of athleticism and draft capital, not much to suggest an NFL WR but I’ll give the Chiefs this at least they understand that NFL route running is a learned trait. Many in the film community can not come to grips with it. 

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article229995924.html

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1 hour ago, Bojang0301 said:

Not a fan of Hardman or his profile. Outside of athleticism and draft capital, not much to suggest an NFL WR but I’ll give the Chiefs this at least they understand that NFL route running is a learned trait. Many in the film community can not come to grips with it. 

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article229995924.html

I think you're generalizing and missing an important point. While I fully realize route trees are learned, and can be learned in the NFL, I find having a prospect with good route running means a potential sooner return on my investment, so I'll rank that player a little higher. 

Fantasy players dont want to wait 3 or 4 years for their players to pay off. We are spoiled from immediate impact rookies such as OBJ and JuJu. The standard always was 3rd year breakout or bust. 

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7 hours ago, EBF said:

You still have to believe he's a good player, otherwise he'll just be another Sammie Coates/Phillip Dorsett/Aaron Dobson.

Chris Conley is fast, was a 3rd round pick in 2015, and didn't have any FF value last year on that team.

Even with an elite QB, a WR needs a certain amount of talent to capitalize.

If you think Hardman is a good player then by all means take him, but a great opportunity on its own doesn't have any value. It only has value in conjunction with a player who is good enough to take advantage of the opportunity.

I think these opportunity situations are the cases where you just try to take the cheapest potential player who could get that opportunity.  Hardman is a pretty expensive long shot right now. 

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2 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

I think you're generalizing and missing an important point. While I fully realize route trees are learned, and can be learned in the NFL, I find having a prospect with good route running means a potential sooner return on my investment, so I'll rank that player a little higher. 

Fantasy players dont want to wait 3 or 4 years for their players to pay off. We are spoiled from immediate impact rookies such as OBJ and JuJu. The standard always was 3rd year breakout or bust. 

It means little. Rookie WR years are capped. You can point to outliers like OBJ and JuJu all you want. DJ Moore had more yards than JuJu as a rookie and no one talks about it because he’s part RB and runs all sorts of sloppy crap right now.

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Just to show his drastic difference in dynasty value.  He went undrafted in a startup I did about 2 months ago (before the NFL draft).  And now he goes late 1st in most rookie drafts.  That's insane.  

Now the question is how much do I bid on him as a free agent pickup in 3 months ha.  

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15 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

Just to show his drastic difference in dynasty value.  He went undrafted in a startup I did about 2 months ago (before the NFL draft).  And now he goes late 1st in most rookie drafts.  That's insane.  

Now the question is how much do I bid on him as a free agent pickup in 3 months ha.  

How much would you bid on a 2020 1st round pick? That's probably the amount you will have to bid because right or wrong, that is what people will see his worth as in the free agent pool

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More useful to the Chiefs than fantasy. Someone they can use on kick returns and ease into the offense at his own pace. If he becomes a quick study it will be interesting to see the creativity coming out of this offense. Robinson replaces a boring Conley and has big play ability. This offense has a chance to be special once again this year. 

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Just now, Aznflyer14 said:

One has to feel bad for those who took Hardman in late 1st round pick, expecting him to take over some of Hill's role.  

I wanted him but he went a pick before me. Good buy low time if you like him.

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Just now, King of the Jungle said:

I wanted him but he went a pick before me. Good buy low time if you like him.

Agreed on long term potential...  And now I'm hearing that Chiefs may trade Hill after this season if cannot reach a contract extension.  I'm not sure if they should do that since they will have to sign Mahomes a record-breaking contract extension within a year or two. 

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I can't imagine they let go of Hill.  He's one of the most dynamic receivers in the league.

Keeping he and Mahommes together for as long as they can will go a long way for their success.

 

That said, if he has any more off the field incidents, they won't care.

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2 hours ago, Aznflyer14 said:

Agreed on long term potential...  And now I'm hearing that Chiefs may trade Hill after this season if cannot reach a contract extension.  I'm not sure if they should do that since they will have to sign Mahomes a record-breaking contract extension within a year or two. 

I think if Hardman hits...him and Hill will co-exist just fine. Doubt Watkins will be around for another contract unless he stays healthy and shows he can be a consistent difference maker. Even then it would be tough to pay him unless you let Hill go....which won’t happen unless there is another incident IMO.

Edited by King of the Jungle
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Quote

Terez A. Paylor @terezpaylor

Mecole Hardman is consistently running away from cats today

Quote

Terez A. Paylor @terezpaylor

Whew. Nice ball from Chad Henne to Mecole Hardman for a long TD in 11 on 11. Hardman can really run

 

Quote

Brandon Kiley @BKSportsTalk

I’ve been pleasantly surprised by Mecole Hardman today. He’s creating consistent separation. Had one drop but otherwise has been relatively sure-handed. Been a good day for him. #Chiefs

 

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Brandon Kiley @BKSportsTalk

Mecole Hardman is having his best day of camp. No drops thus far. Has multiple deep catches including a really nice adjustment on one & broken tackle on another. #Chiefs

 

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Rookie receiver Mecole Hardman shows speed on field ... and in learning the playbook

Quote

Mecole Hardman doesn’t have time to be starstruck. 

Sure, he’s catching passes from the reigning NFL MVP, but he’s not thinking about that when he takes the field at Missouri Western for the Chiefs’ training camp practices. 

The rookie wide receiver knows that to be ready for the season, he can’t afford to waste any time practicing with stars in his eyes. 

“You can’t be out here and having surreal moments,” Hardman said after Monday’s practice. “We out here, we’re all professionals who’ve got to play. I’ve got to catch the ball. He’s got to throw me the ball. We’ve got guys around us that’s been in the league a long time; if you’re out here going to live in a ‘wow’ mode, trying to catch balls from Pat, you’re never going to catch balls from Pat.

“There’s no time for surreal. We all out here, we all know what we’ve got to do. We know our job. We’ve got to work.”

If any of this has been surreal for the second-round draft pick out of Georgia, he hasn’t shown it in the first two weeks of Chiefs camp. 

Since rookie minicamp a couple months ago, Hardman has steadily improved, finishing the last four-day stretch of training camp practices with his best and most consistent days yet. On Sunday, he went through the entire practice without a drop, and he showed off his sub-4.35 40-yard dash speed by flat out running away from defenders. 

Though Hardman excelled in college with jet sweeps, bubble screens and deep routes, the Chiefs are continuing to work on making him a well-rounded receiver by getting him even more involved in short and intermediate routes. 

Andy Reid’s demands of his receivers and complex playbook can be overwhelming, but Hardman is taking it all in stride. 

“He’s a smart kid,” Reid said. “I think it was just him getting used to the speed of the game. And then every route here, there’s no route that’s off. Not with a quarterback like we have. You have to run hard on everything. It might look like a clearing route, but you can’t take it that way. That’s not how it works.”

Developing chemistry with Mahomes is key to adapting to the offense, and that connection has strengthened quickly throughout camp. 

In his first week of camp, Hardman ran a route incorrectly, zigging when he should’ve zagged. As a result, a dime from Mahomes fell incomplete. But two practices later, Hardman streaked up the field and curled to his right across the goal line, catching the 60-yard pass just before he went out of bounds.

On Sunday, Mahomes and Hardman just missed connecting on a would-be deep touchdown pass early in practice. Afterward, the pair talked it over and looked to be on the same page for the rest of the day. 

“I think our chemistry is growing,” Hardman said. “I think I’m starting to figure out where he wants me to be at on the field. I think he’s starting to figure me out as a player, my speed, things I like to do with my routes.”

Not only has Hardman shown a knack for learning quickly, he’s also shown an impressive resiliency. When he got demolished on a jet sweep in the first play of an 11-on-11 set in Sunday’s practice, he stayed on his back for a few minutes before being helped off. Despite the scary scene, Hardman never went to the injury tent. He got evaluated on the sideline and was back in the drill a couple plays later. 

“You’ve got about 600 pounds laying on his ankles,” Reid said. “But he was able to bounce back. He’s a tough kid. Played at a good school against good teams. It’s not the first time that he’s been hit, but I think it was that initial, ‘Wow, I just had a whole load land on me.’

“But he got right back in, so you give him credit for that.”

As a member of a deep position group, Hardman has plenty of help adjusting to the NFL expectations and pace from his fellow wide receivers. Sammy Watkins, in particular, has helped him transition. Not only does Watkins help him on the field and in the film room, but the pair also do things together away from the field, like carpool to the team dining room after practice. 

“I think that’s what you’re supposed to do as a rookie,” Hardman said. “You’ve got to take to somebody, or Sammy’s taking well to me, and that’s just not Sammy. D Rob, Tyreek, Dieter, Kemp, all those guys that’s in the room. We all bond with each other. It just makes us a better receiving unit.” 

When the Chiefs play Cincinnati in the first preseason game on Saturday, Hardman will get his first taste of true NFL competition. It’s not a regular-season game, but it will give him a chance to measure his progress against another team. Not only will his receiving skills be tested, but he’ll also be evaluated as a punt returner. In the long run, he could end up taking over punt-return duties from Tyreek Hill to allow the Pro Bowl wide receiver to focus more on his offensive role.

“Mecole, he’s a work in progress,” special teams coach Dave Toub said. “We have four preseason games that we have to see him in. We don’t know how he is going to react when the live bullets are coming down there. … He’s still getting better and better every day with his catching. 

“He’s got to build confidence in himself, and we have to build confidence in him.”

 

 

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Nice run for a td on a little quick shovel pass. 

While it’s just the pre-season—it does lead me to believe they’ll look for ways to put the ball in his hands.

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2 hours ago, jm192 said:

Nice run for a td on a little quick shovel pass. 

While it’s just the pre-season—it does lead me to believe they’ll look for ways to put the ball in his hands.

And take it out of Tyreeks? I don't think so.

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2 hours ago, Milkman said:

And take it out of Tyreeks? I don't think so.

You got to set up plans for the future. If I were Chiefs management, I would be doing everything I could to find an alternative to resigning Tyreek with his obvious off-field garbage.

Speaking simply for this year and next though, if they can develop Hardman into a similar weapon as Hill, they would both benefit from the other’s presence on the field

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2 hours ago, Milkman said:

And take it out of Tyreeks? I don't think so.

Mahomes had 383 completions. Reek is great, but they'll get the ball to him. He's special. The speed he plays with reminds of Jamaal Charles back when he first showed up and he'd just run away from guys. If Hardman gets the ball in space it's over. 

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50 minutes ago, gabes1919 said:

You got to set up plans for the future. If I were Chiefs management, I would be doing everything I could to find an alternative to resigning Tyreek with his obvious off-field garbage.

Speaking simply for this year and next though, if they can develop Hardman into a similar weapon as Hill, they would both benefit from the other’s presence on the field

It's scary to think of what the KC offense could do if Hardman makes an immediate impact. 

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4 hours ago, Milkman said:

And take it out of Tyreeks? I don't think so.

I get what you’re saying, but there’s enough to go around.  

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2 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

It's scary to think of what the KC offense could do if Hardman makes an immediate impact. 

So what you’re saying is that Hill, Watkins, Hardman and Kelce will just run go, 9, and deep fades all day and Mahomes will have an average depth of target of 35 yards?

Edited by gabes1919

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Who else thinks KC over drafted this guy?  He may end up being good, I don't know, but it has the feel of a desperation pick by the Chiefs to find a Hill clone.

ETA:  I also think he's being over drafted in fantasy leagues.

Edited by JohnnyU
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2 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Who else thinks KC over drafted this guy?  He may end up being good, I don't know, but it has the feel of a desperation pick by the Chiefs to find a Hill clone.

ETA:  I also think he's being over drafted in fantasy leagues.

Possibly....but they were in a tough spot not knowing if Tyreek was going to be available or not. Hardman has some similar characteristics and also fit well in the return game. Can’t blame them for stretching for the pick as their offense has a lot of misdirection that requires a speed guy. Now that Hill is back I think it benefits Hardman as they can bring him along slowly like they did with Hill. I like Hardman in dynasty leagues but not interested enough in redraft. If Hardman does grow up fast this offense could turn into something we have never seen before from a scoring perspective.

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2 minutes ago, King of the Jungle said:

Possibly....but they were in a tough spot not knowing if Tyreek was going to be available or not. Hardman has some similar characteristics and also fit well in the return game. Can’t blame them for stretching for the pick as their offense has a lot of misdirection that requires a speed guy. Now that Hill is back I think it benefits Hardman as they can bring him along slowly like they did with Hill. I like Hardman in dynasty leagues but not interested enough in redraft. If Hardman does grow up fast this offense could turn into something we have never seen before from a scoring perspective.

It sounds like you're right at the top of the list of people thinking like the Chiefs on draft day.  

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13 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Who else thinks KC over drafted this guy?  He may end up being good, I don't know, but it has the feel of a desperation pick by the Chiefs to find a Hill clone.

ETA:  I also think he's being over drafted in fantasy leagues.

Johnny,

 

I thought the same thing, then I saw the speed on that shovel pass last night. This kid has a future in this league somewhere...........

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