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Wealth inequality, you okay with it? (1 Viewer)

IC FBGCav

IC FBGCav

Footballguy
http://fortune.com/2019/02/08/growing-wealth-inequality-us-study/

So is this on par with how our republic should work?

Republicans pander to common people through tax cuts, abortion, and gun rights.  While they pander to the base on these issues, it doesn't help their base financially.  They give all the money when in office to corporations, rich tax cuts and the corporate military.  Look at what our service people make compared to the military budget.  It's disgusting IMO.  

Democrats pander to their base with identity politics, working with the right (total bs) and being civil.  They promise hope and change but it takes time and they never deliver.  While they pander to the base on these issues, it doesn't help their base financially.  They give all the money when in office to corporations, rich tax cuts and the corporate military.

Maybe I'm wrong, when was the last time our government did something financially for our people, especially the poor and working class on par with what they do for corporations and the wealthly?

We spend so much on military to protect us yet tens of thousands die every year due to lack of healthcare.   Seems messed up.  

We can't help inner city Chicago, Flint and many other domestic problems.  Why?  

Or are profits and our own personal well being is all that matter and greed is good?

The USA is well behind in healthcare, education, quality of life, press freedom, infant mortality, overall freedom, the ability to move classes and many more.  When is enough, enough?

Rant over.  I just think it's time to change to do better.

 
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95% of American have access to the education that I received.  

I made something out of nothing...now I'm being taxed more than 95% of Americans, to pay for programs and institutions that I don't support.  As a matter of fact I'm taxed more than 99.5% of americans.  (California/no children/no tax havens etc. etc.)

The vast majority of Americans don't take advantage of their opportunities and/or they are not hard workers.

I have very little empathy for those that didn't take advantage of their opportunity.(95% of Americans).  I do have empathy for those 5% that never had a shot.

I used to be a Democrat for social reasons, but now I realize that economic opportunity is the fundamental process that makes this country go.  Democrats like AOC and Bernie throwing around the word Socialism scares the bejeezus out of me...it will be the end of our greatness if it comes to fruition.

 
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How are you being taxed more now?

@TripItUp

I do taxes for a million dollar and 400k  corporations that have to pay fed income taxes yet 20 of the biggest companies in the world pay none.  Cheat better?  Lobby congress?

 
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Also, if you can't see reality beyond your own personal success story, I get it.  Par for the course.

@TripItUp

Also layout how you became self made.  It will help others, all details will be appreciated.

 
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IC FBGCav said:
How are you being taxed more now?
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They put a cap on mortgage interest deductions...for those of us with large mortgages...we got rocked.  Not to mention, CA state taxes and property taxes have risen.

Every upper class homeowner in California is getting taxed more.  Common knowledge.

 
TripItUp said:
They put a cap on mortgage interest deductions...for those of us with large mortgages...we got rocked.  Not to mention, CA state taxes and property taxes have risen.

Every upper class homeowner in California is getting taxed more.  Common knowledge.
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Trump did.  I got screwed too.

 
IC FBGCav said:
Also, if you can't see reality beyond your own personal success story, I get it.  Par for the course.

@TripItUp

Also layout how you became self made.  It will help others, all details will be appreciated.
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Grew up in a very modest single parent household.  School district considered bottom 10% in the country etc. etc.

I worked my ### off.  

And you want me to care about wealth inequality...yeah, I don't think so.

 
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IC FBGCav said:
Yes it is to me if you study how we got here from the economics.
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We got here from American voters not caring about the wrong issues and not understanding the issues.  

If voters cared about and understood the issues, they could be addressed in short order.

 
TripItUp said:
We got here from American voters not caring about the wrong issues and not understanding the issues.  

If voters cared about and understood the issues, they could be addressed in short order.
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I agree 100%  But I think government and corporations act to enourage non participation.  But I get it.

 
IC FBGCav said:
This is what you get when corporations make public policy.
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Corporations are the lifeblood of our economy and account for 9% of our country's tax revenue.

But I agree, their influence on politics is something that should be monitored.

 
IC FBGCav said:
One simple question.  If all people in poverty did exactly what you did, would they get the same result?
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If they had access to my same level/quality of education AND  If they had my work ethic and discipline, they would no longer be in poverty.

95% of my high school did not have my work ethic...that's on them, not me.

 
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IC FBGCav said:
Answer the question.  It is yes or no.
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using the word "All" is not the correct way to go about this analysis.  So I'm not answering a question that is leading to an answer that serves your arguments purpose, because it is misleading at best.

Ask a better question.

 
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TripItUp said:
Corporations are the lifeblood of our economy and account for 9% of our country's tax revenue.

But I agree, their influence on politics is something that should be monitored.
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Everyone wants corporate influence monitor but no one ever recognizes the influence.  How much corporate welfare have walmart and mcdonald sucked out of our programs?

 
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TripItUp said:
using the word "All" is not the correct way to go about this analysis.  So I'm not answering a question that is leading to an answer that serves your arguments purpose, because it is misleading at best.

Ask a better question.
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I will answer it.  There is no Avenue for that many people to succeed.  Even your way.  Part of our system.

 
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IC FBGCav said:
Everyone wants corporate influence monitor but no one ever recognizes there influence.  How much corporate welfare have walmart and mcdonald sucked out of our programs?
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How much tax revenue and wealth has Mcdonalds and Walmart created for the country?

 
IC FBGCav said:
I will answer it.  There is no Avenue for that many people to succeed.  Even your way.  Part of our system.
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Correct, about 5% of our country doesn't have a realistic shot to succeed.  Blaming McDonalds and Walmart is a lazy argument at best.

Currently 13.5% of the country is in poverty.

 
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TripItUp said:
Correct, about 5% of our country doesn't have a realistic shot to succeed.  Blaming McDonalds and Walmart is a lazy argument at best.

Currently 13.5% of the country is in poverty.
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Not not lazy it's true.  Their workers are on Medicade and SNAP programs while they rake in profits.

 
IC FBGCav said:
Not not lazy it's true.  Their workers are on Medicade and SNAP programs while they rake in profits.
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that's called capitalism...the market determines your value.  If you don't like your value, do something to improve it.  About 95% of Americans have this opportunity.   Not only do they have the same opportunity that I had, they have safety nets that I have to pay for like Social Security, Medicare and Unemployment among many others.

I do feel bad for the 5% that don't have the same opportunity I did and I am supportive of programs that give them the same opportunities I had.

 
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TripItUp said:
that's called capitalism...the market determines your value.  If you don't like your value, do something to improve it.  About 95% of Americans have this opportunity. 

I do feel bad for the 5% that don't and am supportive of programs that give them the same opportunities I had.
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Where to people that get public aid spend that government money?

 
TripItUp said:
that's called capitalism...the market determines your value.  If you don't like your value, do something to improve it.  About 95% of Americans have this opportunity. 

I do feel bad for the 5% that don't and am supportive of programs that give them the same opportunities I had.
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If you think we have capitalism, you are wrong.

 
Good debate.  No question there is a wealth disparity in America but I wonder who will decide what is too much wealth?

What will be the line when someone will be forced to give his wealth to someone with less. 

Is 100k in a 401k too much wealth? 50?  Who decides this? 

 
There’s always going to be wealth inequality but as PS says, we’ve gone much too far.  We allow (some) corporations to pay no taxes and the top 1% have more wealth than the bottom 90%.  This has #### all to do with hard work and we also aren’t taking about most of us in this conversation.  In the upcoming years it will only get worse as we automate more and more jobs and put people out of work.  

 
AAABatteries said:
There’s always going to be wealth inequality but as PS says, we’ve gone much too far.  We allow (some) corporations to pay no taxes and the top 1% have more wealth than the bottom 90%.  This has #### all to do with hard work and we also aren’t taking about most of us in this conversation.  In the upcoming years it will only get worse as we automate more and more jobs and put people out of work.  
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And yet we allow unchecked immigration of even more unskilled workers when we don’t take care of our own American unskilled workers. Heck LA has an estimated 50k homeless living in tents and we don’t take care of them.   

Im a R but am concerned that neither side seems to care that our middle class is disappearing in America and neither side seems to care for different reasons. 

 
Excellent topic. 

I’m OK with very very rich people. But I’m not OK with poverty. I’m not OK with homelessness, I’m not OK with hungry children, or people who lack the basic necessities of life. I believe in the safety net. 

Furthermore, while I believe in TripItUp’s story and I am a huge  believer in the value of capitalism  , I know that not everyone living here has the same opportunity of hard work equals success. Some people are limited by bigotry, racism, sexism. Others by factors beyond their control. I want everyone here to have the same opportunities for success that TripItUp has. I don’t mind the government stepping in and aiding those with less opportunities; to me that’s a good thing. 

But that’s where I draw the line. I want everyone to have a basic level of living, and the same opportunity for success, but I don’t believe in the redistribution of wealth.I don’t believe in demonizing the rich, and I don’t care what percentage of wealth they possess. Our economic system is an excellent one. It has flaws, and those flaws can and need to be fixed and adjusted from time to time. But the system does not need to be replaced.  

 
boots11234 said:
And yet we allow unchecked immigration of even more unskilled workers when we don’t take care of our own American unskilled workers. Heck LA has an estimated 50k homeless living in tents and we don’t take care of them.   

Im a R but am concerned that neither side seems to care that our middle class is disappearing in America and neither side seems to care for different reasons. 
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We don’t allow unchecked immigration, sadly. 

 
TripItUp said:
Grew up in a very modest single parent household.  School district considered bottom 10% in the country etc. etc.

I worked my ### off.  

And you want me to care about wealth inequality...yeah, I don't think so.
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Class mo mobility is actually lower than many of those evil socialist euro countries. Statistically speaking, you are far more likely to stay poor if you are born poor than in the past. And far more likely to stay rich if you are born rich. Not impossible to change class, but the bootstraps view is as much myth as reality right now. A huge percentage of the country can’t afford an unexpected $400 expense right now and it’s not because they are all lazy or bad people. It shouldn’t have to take the labors of Hercules to improve your lot in life. 

 
I don’t agree with every implication of this essay, but the whole thing is very much worth reading:

http://paulgraham.com/ineq.html

A very brief summary:

First, there are both good and bad sources of inequality. Let’s work to eliminate the bad sources.

(Bad sources include gaining wealth at others’ expense, for example in zero-sum games like high-frequency trading or in negative-sum games like lobbying for protectionism. Good sources include creating wealth from scratch, for example by employing one’s expertise in woodworking to fashion a chair out of the raw materials one has purchased.)

Second, poverty is more of a problem than inequality is, and it’s sloppy and ultimately harmful to conflate the two. While greater equality may be good in itself, the fact that some people are too poor is a much larger problem than the fact that some people are too rich. Poverty and inequality are two separate problems, not flip sides of same problem (since accumulating wealth is usually non-zero-sum), and prioritizing the wrong one will lead to suboptimal results.

“[L]et’s attack poverty, and if necessary damage wealth in the process. That's much more likely to work than attacking wealth in the hope that you will thereby fix poverty.”

My summary is woefully inadequate. It’s much better to read the whole thing.

 
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