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kittenmittens

Alexander Mattison Vikings RB

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Can't find a thread.  I really like this guy.  He's a Waldman favorite too. I see him as an excellent late 2nd or early 3rd round target in rookie drafts. 

He's younger than Sanders, and might have a better opportunity, especially if Cook has problems staying healthy. 

I think we know that both Sanders and Montgomery are in a RBBC for now.  Mattison could take over that Murray workload right away with room for more.  

Edited by kittenmittens
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Ooof Evan Silva called him the worst pick in the draft. FWIW, I liked Mattison well enough. Expected him to go in the 5th. Not really anything special but rosterable and probably a nice fill in backup RB.

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7 minutes ago, Bojang0301 said:

Ooof Evan Silva called him the worst pick in the draft. FWIW, I liked Mattison well enough. Expected him to go in the 5th. Not really anything special but rosterable and probably a nice fill in backup RB.

Seems like hyperbole to me.

His stats are pretty gross. Very few long runs and a low YPC.

However, he has a little bit of agility for a bigger back and can get north-south quickly. Add in his hands you can understand the selection.

It's hard to find 220+ pound RBs who can also catch the ball and while he isn't anything special as a pure runner, he could plug in as a low end starter immediately if needed.

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18 minutes ago, EBF said:

Seems like hyperbole to me.

His stats are pretty gross. Very few long runs and a low YPC.

However, he has a little bit of agility for a bigger back and can get north-south quickly. Add in his hands you can understand the selection.

It's hard to find 220+ pound RBs who can also catch the ball and while he isn't anything special as a pure runner, he could plug in as a low end starter immediately if needed.

My biggest worry is that he played in a Boise system that seems to always produce RBs with big numbers and by every measure Mattison is the worst of the  4 BSU RBs draftee since 2012. Martin and Ajayi had good seasons but McNichols was a flop. It just worries me that he is lining off of inflated inefficient production at a college that almost any RB will produce in.

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I like him as a dart potential fill in.

If/when Cook gets injured Mattison can handle 15-20 touches.  Great cuff for Cook and you don't have to invest much in him.

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I've seen some narrative that the Vikings didn't like Mattison that much because they kept trading down before selecting him.  Spielman actually made some comments that they trade down that way when they like a player at a position about as much as others.  Looking on the flip side of the trading down narrative, I'd say that it could easily mean that the Vikings had some combination of Sanders, Montgomery, Henderson, Mattison, Singletary and Harris rated about the same. 

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poor man's marshawn lynch.  busting, bruiser, that gets low and has great leg drive.  waldman did an awesome breakdown of him.  if you're looking for sexy turn away, unless your sexy is a back that will grind hard on a defense and then grind some more.  

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20 minutes ago, beef said:

poor man's marshawn lynch.  busting, bruiser, that gets low and has great leg drive.  waldman did an awesome breakdown of him.  if you're looking for sexy turn away, unless your sexy is a back that will grind hard on a defense and then grind some more.  

so much innuendo in that post

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On board. Will take an injury to make him relevant, but worth a dart throw late in drafts of larger leagues. 

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4 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

My biggest worry is that he played in a Boise system that seems to always produce RBs with big numbers and by every measure Mattison is the worst of the  4 BSU RBs draftee since 2012. Martin and Ajayi had good seasons but McNichols was a flop. It just worries me that he is lining off of inflated inefficient production at a college that almost any RB will produce in.

I try to focus on the player, not the system. With his size and versatility, he would be a prospect on any college team.

I can't say I'm an expert on his game, but in some of the clips I watched (vs. Troy), he was often hit in the backfield early in the play. Not really his fault.

This is going back quite a bit, but Steven Jackson had a pretty poor YPC in his final college season and that was a red flag for me. However, it was really down to his system and supporting cast more than his lack of talent, as he ended up having a brilliant pro career. You can watch Adrian Peterson get demolished by USC in the NCAA title game for another example of this. If the system around you is constantly failing then you're not going to look as good as you really are. Even though Boise has a good recent history of yielding NFL RB prospects, that doesn't mean the team and run game are equivalent in every year.

Mattison is no Steven Jackson or Adrian Peterson (not even close), but I would try to isolate his qualities independent of the stats and uniform he wears. What I see is a big back who, while not overly explosive, has a nice north-south stride, good hands, and just enough quickness/agility to be effective. On run talent alone he may only be a day three guy and strictly a backup caliber talent (in fact, in many years his overall draft position would equate to the early 4th round rather than the late 3rd where he was taken). However, as I said, he has better receiving ability than the typical day three bruiser and that's likely why he got the slight bump in the draft, as the league values versatility in backs.

I took him with the #23 pick in a rookie draft today and it was less because I love his game and more because the alternatives on the board were grim. I'm realistic about his outlook. He's most likely a backup talent who lacks the dynamism to command a starting role, but who can step up and produce useful stats when needed. You could compare him to someone like Joique Bell or LeGarrette Blount. Neither is an ideal NFL starter, but both had periods of utility and FF relevance. I own Dalvin Cook in one league and think he's a decent back, but he is not big, not powerful, and has thus far has not been durable. As long as you don't go crazy overdrafting Mattison, he makes sense as a cheap dart throw who can potentially pop up and fill a RB2 slot in your lineup in spurts. If you have Cook already, the price to roster Mattison is probably going to be reasonable enough to make it worthwhile.

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2 minutes ago, EBF said:

I try to focus on the player, not the system. With his size and versatility, he would be a prospect on any college team.

I can't say I'm an expert on his game, but in some of the clips I watched (vs. Troy), he was often hit in the backfield early in the play. Not really his fault.

This is going back quite a bit, but Steven Jackson had a pretty poor YPC in his final college season and that was a red flag for me. However, it was really down to his system and supporting cast more than his lack of talent, as he ended up having a brilliant pro career. You can watch Adrian Peterson get demolished by USC in the NCAA title game for another example of this. If the system around you is constantly failing then you're not going to look as good as you really are. Even though Boise has a good recent history of yielding NFL RB prospects, that doesn't mean the team and run game are equivalent in every year.

Mattison is no Steven Jackson or Adrian Peterson (not even close), but I would try to isolate his qualities independent of the stats and uniform he wears. What I see is a big back who, while not overly explosive, has a nice north-south stride, good hands, and just enough quickness/agility to be effective. On run talent alone he may only be a day three guy and strictly a backup caliber talent (in fact, in many years his overall draft position would equate to the early 4th round rather than the late 3rd where he was taken). However, as I said, he has better receiving ability than the typical day three bruiser and that's likely why he got the slight bump in the draft, as the league values versatility in backs.

I took him with the #23 pick in a rookie draft today and it was less because I love his game and more because the alternatives on the board were grim. I'm realistic about his outlook. He's most likely a backup talent who lacks the dynamism to command a starting role, but who can step up and produce useful stats when needed. You could compare him to someone like Joique Bell or LeGarrette Blount. Neither is an ideal NFL starter, but both had periods of utility and FF relevance. I own Dalvin Cook in one league and think he's a decent back, but he is not big, not powerful, and has thus far has not been durable. As long as you don't go crazy overdrafting Mattison, he makes sense as a cheap dart throw who can potentially pop up and fill a RB2 slot in your lineup in spurts. If you have Cook already, the price to roster Mattison is probably going to be reasonable enough to make it worthwhile.

That’s fair but my point is really the opposite. Boise normally produces RBs with massive rushing and receiving numbers. Mattison has been the least productive and efficient RB Boise has had in awhile. Jay Ajayi’s receiving at Boise dwarfed Mattison but Ajayi was never able to be a pass catcher in the NFL. That said, anyone is worth a late enough dart throw. 

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12 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

That’s fair but my point is really the opposite. Boise normally produces RBs with massive rushing and receiving numbers. Mattison has been the least productive and efficient RB Boise has had in awhile. Jay Ajayi’s receiving at Boise dwarfed Mattison but Ajayi was never able to be a pass catcher in the NFL. That said, anyone is worth a late enough dart throw. 

Right, and Trent Richardson had better college stats than Eddie Lacy, Mark Ingram, and Derrick Henry.

It's not irrelevant, but it's a different game. That's why I talked about trying to isolate the player's qualities instead of looking at his uniform.

I mean, you could compare JuJu to Marqise Lee, Robert Woods, and Nelson Agholor just because they all went to the same school, but really his play style and skill set are so different that I'm not sure you'd learn anything by weighing their stats against one another.

Edited by EBF

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I have a feeling by July/August rookie drafts he’ll be creeping way up the boards. 

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17 minutes ago, EBF said:

Right, and Trent Richardson had better college stats than Eddie Lacy, Mark Ingram, and Derrick Henry.

It's not irrelevant, but it's a different game. That's why I talked about trying to isolate the player's qualities instead of looking at his uniform.

I mean, you could compare JuJu to Marqise Lee, Robert Woods, and Nelson Agholor just because they all went to the same school, but really his play style and skill set are so different that I'm not sure you'd learn anything by weighing their stats against one another.

I agree that’s not the whole picture but it’s part of the puzzle in college where schemes can vary widely. As for the Bama RBs, Trent was not definitely better than the 3 guys you mentioned. I could make a pretty easy case all three had better seasons than Richardson ever did at Alabama. 

USC has changed coaches several times so it’s not really the same offense year to year but you are right there are lots of variables involved. 

I still don’t think he’s much of a prospect. I watch a lot of Boise since I’m an alumni and he looked like the least impressive RB I’ve seem there in awhile. Just my 2 cents and lord knows I’m wrong as much anyone.

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On 5/1/2019 at 8:52 PM, Ilov80s said:

I still don’t think he’s much of a prospect. I watch a lot of Boise since I’m an alumni and he looked like the least impressive RB I’ve seem there in awhile. Just my 2 cents and lord knows I’m wrong as much anyone.

I appreciate the insight. 

I definitely don't think he is as good as Ajayi.

I never thought much of McNichols but he did have better stats and combine metrics than Mattison. 

Again my biggest hope for him is that Kubiak does seem to have a strong influence on who the Vikings drafted this year and Mattison is a good fit for that. There have been lesser known prospects who have thrived in that system.

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Here is an article from an interview with slick Rick who said this about the Mattison pick.

Quote

The 3rd round was "interesting", from the fact that they had 5 or 6 names up there that they were willing to take. He said they look at the draft board horizontally, with players being in different categories (talent) and that the players in each category are of similar talent. The philosophy in the 3rd round was that continuing to trade back allows you to gain draft capital while still having the possibility of grabbing one of the guys in that 3rd round category - "all of those players could have filled a need."

But Mattison was their pick at 102 because of his position on their board relative to the other running backs, in addition to him being a complementary back to Cook. Rick also noted that Mattison is always going to move forward on contact, and that is a good trait. So they were able to land a player to fill a need, in addition to accumulating later round picks. Noted that Mattison was very competitive, passionate, intelligent during interview.

Wobby: When drafting a player (RB) are you trying get someone who has similar skills to your main back so you can plug them in if they need a break or get injured?

Rick: As long as they're a schematic fit, they want to get different styles of players so the defense can't hone in on one game plan. Also noted the difference in defending Rudolph (H-back) and Irv Smith ("true wide" TE) - if they're both out there you can't defend them both. It's all about gaining a competitive advantage.

 

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Gotten him in 2/2 rookie drafts so far and it might be 3/3 after tonight. I don't love the talent, but he's a day two back falling to the third round of rookie drafts.

His short-term opportunity might be better than we think. Is Cook one of the most overrated dynasty RBs right now? I have him in one league and I think it's possible. Brittle, lacks power, and didn't flash much explosiveness last season. Maybe with another year removed from his injury he'll be great this next season, but if you own him then I think Mattison is cheap enough that you'll probably want to go ahead and get the insurance policy. I'm not usually a fan of handcuffing, but the risk/reward seems to make sense here.

Edited by EBF
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5 hours ago, EBF said:

Gotten him in 2/2 rookie drafts so far and it might be 3/3 after tonight. I don't love the talent, but he's a day two back falling to the third round of rookie drafts.

Just went early 2nd. You like him there?

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2 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

Just went early 2nd. You like him there?

Early 2nd in two of my drafts. Both Cook owners. 

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4 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

Just went early 2nd. You like him there?

No, I have him as an option around the 18th-20th pick, and anywhere after that.

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20 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Well he went at 2.06 and 2.04 in my leagues....people seem to love him...thought it was way early...fine ny me

When he went 2.03 I was like, "whaaat!?" Wasn't even the Cook owner.

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2 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

That's nutty.  What other RB were on the board?

Henderson was there...  I thought it was a major reach and I am high on Mattison. 

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I’m confused by the rise. I liked him early on. Figured he was a nice between the tackles guy with some catching prowess. He didn’t do great in athletic measurables but serviceable. I honestly don’t think he’s a better back than Mike Boone but I guess he would play a different role if Cook went down.

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2 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

Henderson was there...  I thought it was a major reach and I am high on Mattison. 

Just goes to show that people in the community will always and forever fall in love with the back who breaks tackles by contact vs the one who is elusive. 

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Not sure his "rise" is that real. I got him at 3.06 last night in a 12 team 2RB league with a few FAs mixed in. RBs usually go very high in that league. I got him 31st overall in a different league, also yesterday. He fell to the exact same spot in the opposite conference. He doesn't seem to have a huge fan base. Like I said, I'm not necessarily a huge fan either, but cost is a big factor in who I end up with in my rookie drafts and this guy is cheap. Low risk. Decent upside.

Henderson has generally gone about a round higher in my drafts, so I don't necessarily see that debate as worthwhile. One guy is a lot cheaper.

As for "winning with contact", one thing I do like about Mattison if you pay close attention to his game is that he's not just bulling people over. He's pretty good at weaving and sliding to make small adjustments to destroy angles and minimize contact. Great example on this run here:

https://youtu.be/lKiJr2r44RQ?t=54

That's two broken tackles on that play, but if you really look it's his subtle hip movement/footwork/cuts that allow him to slip free. He's not just charging into people and running them over. He's making moves to minimize hits and that's what most of the great ones do. People like Barkley and Mixon are hard to tackle because it's hard to get a CLEAN hit on them. Everything is deflected and minimized.

Nobody's going to confuse this guy with Adrian Peterson in terms of footwork and cuts, but for a 220+ pounder he does run a little bit looser than the typical day three JAG. I've said this already, but he's an interesting guy to stash because he has three down potential if Cook falters and you're not giving up much to roster him. If you are a Cook owner, I think you need to strongly consider getting him.

Also could be a sneaky redraft pick in best ball formats as the last RB on your roster.

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27 minutes ago, Bojang0301 said:

I’m confused by the rise. I liked him early on. Figured he was a nice between the tackles guy with some catching prowess. He didn’t do great in athletic measurables but serviceable. I honestly don’t think he’s a better back than Mike Boone but I guess he would play a different role if Cook went down.

Just because Mike Boone is some sort of sparq score phenom from jumping 42" supposedly at his pro day doesn't make him a good RB.

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48 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Just because Mike Boone is some sort of sparq score phenom from jumping 42" supposedly at his pro day doesn't make him a good RB.

Just because Mattison can square up on a guy half his size doesn’t make him a good RB either.

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4 minutes ago, Bojang0301 said:

Just because Mattison can square up on a guy half his size doesn’t make him a good RB either.

He does more than that well. I do like his pad level as a runner though.

Mike Boone in his very limited action was not at all impressive to me. He missed a cut back lane that could have led to 8 or more yards on one play that stands out to me. So infrequent for the offensive line to open a nice crease like that for a guy to then not hit it.

He wasnt very productive in college either and was undrafted for a reason.

I dont see Boone as a threat to Mattison. He likely won't beat out Ameer and is fighting for a roster spot.

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1 minute ago, Biabreakable said:

He does more than that well. I do like his pad level as a runner though.

Mike Boone in his very limited action was not at all impressive to me. He missed a cut back lane that could have led to 8 or more yards on one play that stands out to me. So infrequent for the offensive line to open a nice crease like that for a guy to then not hit it.

He wasnt very productive in college either and was undrafted for a reason.

I dont see Boone as a threat to Mattison. He likely won't beat out Ameer and is fighting for a roster spot.

I don’t hate Mattison. If you go back I had him in my top 15 at the start of the process. Maybe “better” is a bad term. What I like about Boone is what I look for in high value sleepers. You’re right that I am after the athleticism but I’m also about the pass catching. Mattison is actually a decent pass catcher so I don’t want you to think that is a critique of his ability based off of what I think Boone’s ability is. Judging him off of one bad read is pretty silly. He was pretty solid in his preseason work last year. I know that’s not the best indication for success but it was the reason he made and stayed on the roster. So when I look at Mattison as a replacement level athlete who is less athletic than Jeremy McNicols who has failed in the NFL... I don’t really see spending a 2nd round rookie pick on him as a resource as more valuable than a free shot at Boone (or Abdullah for that matter).

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He's gone 29-33 in 3 leagues.  I got him at 33 in one, liked the value there.   Not even the Cook owner, and I own him in the other two.  Go figure.  I didn't have picks in that range of those drafts though or I probably would have. 

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1 hour ago, hispeedthinmint said:

So AMeer is junk?

Loved him coming out of school but he never put anything together in Detroit. There is a chance he improves but I think Mattison will be given the chance to backup as he has the more well rounded skill set that Minny is looking for.

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