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gianmarco

U.S. Health Care Ranked Worst in the Developed World

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On 5/14/2019 at 2:59 AM, Just Win Baby said:

A couple of things to consider:

  1. The US public sector spending is comparable to other OECD countries. The significant gap is in private sector spending. See How does health spending in the U.S. compare to other countries?
  2. The US has the highest gross adjusted household disposable income among OECD countries.

How do these facts support the notion that US healthcare spending is a huge problem?

Also, here is an economic point of view, from The Value of Life and the Rise in Health Spending:

 

This is also very interesting. If all that private spending resulted in better outcomes, the economists might have a point. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, it doesn't. 

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On 5/14/2019 at 9:07 AM, Henry Ford said:

If you and your employer pay a total of $500 per month for 30 years for your insurance you’re talking about $180,000 in premiums. Can you afford to pay $75,000 out of pocket for a procedure?

That would put a bit of a dent into the hooker and blow budget...

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On 5/14/2019 at 9:07 AM, Henry Ford said:

If you and your employer pay a total of $500 per month for 30 years for your insurance you’re talking about $180,000 in premiums. Can you afford to pay $75,000 out of pocket for a procedure?

tim is just saying you end up with a giant bill you couldn’t pay out of pocket, not that you aren’t profitable ultimately.  

I guess I'm missing your point here, but wouldn't the answer be "yes"?  As you didn't pay 180k into the system, you could pay that large bill out of pocket, and still have $100k left over.  You'd have a whole lot more, in fact, if you attach any "time value of money" into it, say even 3% over that 30 years. 

Or you you saying that you just blew that $180k that you and your employer didn't spend on insurance?

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5 minutes ago, matttyl said:

I guess I'm missing your point here, but wouldn't the answer be "yes"?  As you didn't pay 180k into the system, you could pay that large bill out of pocket, and still have $100k left over.  You'd have a whole lot more, in fact, if you attach any "time value of money" into it, say even 3% over that 30 years. 

Or you you saying that you just blew that $180k that you and your employer didn't spend on insurance?

Do you believe that people who don’t buy insurance put $500 aside every month?

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1 hour ago, Henry Ford said:

Do you believe that people who don’t buy insurance put $500 aside every month?

No, but in your example they wouldn't need to.  $129 a month in an account growing at 3% compounded for your 30 year example would be the $75k needed.  I understand that these are all just made up numbers - but all the time I end up not selling a health insurance policy to someone due to cost, and they're doing something with the money they aren't spending on the coverage.  Mainly they are putting it into their retirement, or education savings for kids.  Sure, some are blowing it on any number of things.  I get it much more in life insurance sales, honestly.  Why put $10k a year away into a whole life policy for a $500k death benefit (made up numbers) when I can put $1k into a term policy and invest the other $9k?  In some cases, sure they would be better off (especially with a longer timeline) and other times they are not.  Just like with your example, if that large claims comes in the early years, you don't yet have enough put away.   

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5 hours ago, matttyl said:

No, but in your example they wouldn't need to.  $129 a month in an account growing at 3% compounded for your 30 year example would be the $75k needed.  I understand that these are all just made up numbers - but all the time I end up not selling a health insurance policy to someone due to cost, and they're doing something with the money they aren't spending on the coverage.  Mainly they are putting it into their retirement, or education savings for kids.  Sure, some are blowing it on any number of things.  I get it much more in life insurance sales, honestly.  Why put $10k a year away into a whole life policy for a $500k death benefit (made up numbers) when I can put $1k into a term policy and invest the other $9k?  In some cases, sure they would be better off (especially with a longer timeline) and other times they are not.  Just like with your example, if that large claims comes in the early years, you don't yet have enough put away.   

Most people use it for rent. Or food.  Or kids. 

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10 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

Most people use it for rent. Or food.  Or kids. 

You mean most would use it for those things.  In your example, I think, people are having their health insurance taken away - but then also given ~$500 a month "instead".  I have to assume that right now, they already have monies allocated to rent or food or kids - you're talking about giving them an extra ~$500 a month.  You might actually be talking about giving them an extra $1.66k or more a month if we're talking kids (average premiums for family employer coverage was just a shade under $20k last year).  I guess I'm just hoping more people would be responsible with that money, if put in the situation of having their health insurance taken from them, but given $1.66k in place of it each month.  In the end, you're likely correct that many if not most would find something else to spend that money on.  Which is why I think it's crazy for people to suggest unlinking health insurance from employment.  If we did that, the uninsured rate would spike immediately. 

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6 minutes ago, matttyl said:

You mean most would use it for those things.  In your example, I think, people are having their health insurance taken away - but then also given ~$500 a month "instead".  I have to assume that right now, they already have monies allocated to rent or food or kids - you're talking about giving them an extra ~$500 a month.  You might actually be talking about giving them an extra $1.66k or more a month if we're talking kids (average premiums for family employer coverage was just a shade under $20k last year).  I guess I'm just hoping more people would be responsible with that money, if put in the situation of having their health insurance taken from them, but given $1.66k in place of it each month.  In the end, you're likely correct that many if not most would find something else to spend that money on.  Which is why I think it's crazy for people to suggest unlinking health insurance from employment.  If we did that, the uninsured rate would spike immediately. 

Well that kind of depends on the plan, doesn’t it?

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15 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Well that kind of depends on the plan, doesn’t it?

Which part?  The part about unlinking health insurance and employment?  Certainly.  But that part never gets talked about - they just want to unlink employment and coverage.  When brought up then ask if they are for universal coverage or single payer (not necessarily the same thing) - and generally they answer "no", they just want to pick their own coverage that has no connection to their employment and be able to keep it.

Now I've always found that odd for a few reasons.  First, as mentioned, it would cause the uninsured rate to spike immediately.  Secondly - for most people, they've always had that option

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