Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Sign in to follow this  
timschochet

Shouldn’t we credit President Trump for a strong, booming economy?

Recommended Posts

Trump has hit it out of the ballpark when it comes to the economy.  Lots of people vote with their pocketbooks.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Ack88 said:

Obama has 8 years, Trump has has less than 2 and Trump's GDP is demonstrably superior. 

just like Barry Switzer was demonstrably a better coach than Jimmy Johnson.

  • Laughing 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the OP.

President Powell deserves a ton of credit for not screwing up a stimulated mortgage-the-future economy that President Yellen kept going after President Bernanke helped jump start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ack88 said:

That's a false comparison. Regular season records in the NFL are less important than playoff records. 

You're missing the point here.

The point is that if you are inclined to measure presidents by the performance of the economy (which, again, I think is silly), you can look at different numbers to reach different conclusions. If you want to look at raw numbers, Trump is generally going to look better. If you want to look at improvement in those numbers, Obama is generally going to look better.

Each perspective, in isolation, paints an incomplete picture. Obama is obviously going to have the better improvement numbers because the numbers were terrible when he took office so he had lots of room to improve them that Trump didn't have. Trump is obviously going to have the better raw numbers for the same reason - he was handed an already healthy economy and has managed to keep it growing.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

What do you think the economy would be like now if Hillary had won?

imaginary, existing only in the minds of conservatives who can't seem to let go of their favorite boogeyman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, moleculo said:

just like Barry Switzer was demonstrably a better coach than Jimmy Johnson.

I needed this, almost fell off my chair. Obama was Dolphins Jimmy Johnson on his best day. Oh my. 

  • Like 2
  • Laughing 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

You know, you can just admit that you confused increases and decreases in growth rates with increases and decreases in the GDP itself.  That's what you did. 

And it's OK. We all make silly mistakes or type things that aren't exactly what we mean sometimes.  So why can't you just admit that? I get the feeling you're sharp enough to know that's exactly what happened here.  So just say it.  Here, I'll even type it for you so you can cut and paste:
 

You're right, my bad. I meant the GDP growth rate declined during various quarters in 2015 and 2016, not that the GDP itself declined. I obviously understand the difference, just didn't type it out accurately.

 

See? It's not that hard.

Now I see your confusion.  You didn't understand what I was saying.  Apology accepted.

  • Laughing 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I just gave you two facts. Obama shrunk unemployment from over 10% to under 5%.    And Obama increased the stock market by 150%.

That's two humungous and very important economic indicators where Obama blows Trump out of the water.  Of course, I'm sure you want to stick to GDP because that one favors Trump. :popcorn:

 

Hmm, after rapid-firing about 20 posts, Ack88 suddenly disappeared after telling me I couldn't name one area where Obama outperformed Trump. Suddenly not interested in the topic, I guess.  :bye:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Hmm, after rapid-firing about 20 posts, Ack88 suddenly disappeared after telling me I couldn't name one area where Obama outperformed Trump. Suddenly not interested in the topic, I guess.  :bye:

:lmao:. What exactly did Obama do to help the stock market?  

Was it raising taxes with Obamacare?

Edited by Don't Noonan
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

- This isn't a Biden thing but it is the right question and the right chord to strike. I am sure Sanders or any of the other candidates if nominated will say this as they should, but hopefully they are that concise about it.

Because let's face it - unless the economy is absolutely disastrous - Carter, Hoover - or unless there is a major third party bid - Bush Sr. - as long as the economy is reasonably all right presidents typically get reelected. And this economy is pretty good.

People are not generally like left/right alike on this board into politics, quibbles about inflation, tariffs, deficits, participation rate, tax marginal rates, debt usually don't hold much sway. I do think a conservative Republican running against a Dem holding such policies would have some good pull but again obviously fiscal conservatism is either muted or dead under Trump.

At any rate the headwinds are very favorable, which again makes DJT's approval rating all the worse.

Excellent and very thoughtful post. 

Unfortunately a lot of the posts in this thread from Trump critics have consisted of either “Trump doesn’t deserve the credit, Obama does” or “things aren’t as good as they appear”. These aren’t winning arguments! And I believe that Trump DOES deserve credit, and I wanted to give it to him in this thread. 

But Biden’s point, which is actually an echo of an argument Bernie has been making for well over a decade now, that the economic growth is not spreading to everyone, may be a winning argument for Democrats, especially since it was the exact same argument that Trump made in 2016! And in the OP I also listed the other concerns I had, which I think Democrats could use: tariffs. Harm to the environment. Reliance on old fuels like coal and oil. Ignoring the deficit. Etc etc. We’ll see if the Dems are smart enough to make some of these points. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

:lmao:. What exactly did Obama do to help the stock market?  

Was it raising taxes with Obamacare?

I would argue that TARP (which Obama had a lot of responsibility for despite not being elected yet), the stimulus package and the General Motors bailout all had a significant very positive impact on the stock market. Later on, Obama’s trade deals had more positive impact 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Now I see your confusion.  You didn't understand what I was saying.  Apology accepted.

I appreciate the reminder of why I've always had you on ignore and everyone else should too.  A man who is too arrogant to acknowledge that he confused growth rates with raw numbers isn't worth anyone's time, no matter how much false and misleading garbage he peddles. 

Have a good weekend.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Hmm, after rapid-firing about 20 posts, Ack88 suddenly disappeared after telling me I couldn't name one area where Obama outperformed Trump. Suddenly not interested in the topic, I guess.  :bye:

Right. And unemployment is under 4% under Trump and the stock market under Trump is higher than at any point than Obama.

 

Ballgame, folks.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, moleculo said:

just like Barry Switzer was demonstrably a better coach than Jimmy Johnson.

Nope.

False.

Nobody ever says "Let's look at regular season record to determine who the best coach of all time is."

People do say, when it comes to the economy- do I have a job? Are my taxes lower? In society at large, what do those metrics look like for most people? Unemployment lower under Trump. Economic Growth- stronger under Trump. Taxation rates- lower for most under Trump.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Hmm, after rapid-firing about 20 posts, Ack88 suddenly disappeared after telling me I couldn't name one area where Obama outperformed Trump. Suddenly not interested in the topic, I guess.  :bye:

Simple questions- was unemployment under Obama EVER as low as it is under Trump?

Is the stock market higher under Trump or Obama?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kicking the can down the road does not merit praise

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, timschochet said:

And I believe that Trump DOES deserve credit, and I wanted to give it to him in this thread. 

Just one other thought here - Trump personally doesn’t enunciate what policies are effective. It’s impossible to assign any level of economic sophistication to a guy who just fecklessly nominated Stephen Moore and Herman Cain to the Fed. It’s an old story now but even good stuff for Trump falls apart when he opens his mouth to explain it.

Now can he wildly point at the stats? Yes, that’s a winning point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

I appreciate the reminder of why I've always had you on ignore and everyone else should too.  A man who is too arrogant to acknowledge that he confused growth rates with raw numbers isn't worth anyone's time, no matter how much false and misleading garbage he peddles. 

Have a good weekend.

Oh the irony.  :lmao:. I too hope you have a great weekend!  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Osaurus said:

Kicking the can down the road does not merit praise

Um you probably don't want to do that.....these guys are comparing Trump to Obama right now.

  • Thinking 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Ack88 said:

 

People do say, when it comes to the economy- do I have a job? Are my taxes lower? 

Actually the fundamental question is even simpler: “is my situation better?” 

And here I believe the Democrats have an argument to make that it really isn’t. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And for what it's worth...I'm really having a hard time understanding how a guy who has had FOUR bankruptcies in like 30 years somehow, singlehandedly, figured out how to run the US economy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, moleculo said:

imaginary, existing only in the minds of conservatives who can't seem to let go of their favorite boogeymanperson.

She is like the female John Wick.  Baba yaga!

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now the political question becomes: should the Democratic candidates talk about the economy, knowing that, even though they have a decent argument to make it’s a nuanced one, and that the truth is most voters are not great with nuance? 

Or should they concentrate on healthcare? Or on Trump’s divisive rhetoric and actions? Forget about just and unjust, right and wrong: how best to win? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Actually the fundamental question is even simpler: “is my situation better?” 

And here I believe the Democrats have an argument to make that it really isn’t. 

Good point. It is the proverbial am I better off now than I was four years ago?

IMO, I am better off and generally approve of Trump's economic policies. IMO, on the economy, while the Democrats could make that argument, I think Trump could make a stronger one. Of course, that is my personal opinion and I can't speak for everyone, but generally, I like GOP economic policies better.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

:lmao:. What exactly did Obama do to help the stock market?  

Was it raising taxes with Obamacare?

A nearly 0% interest rate and quantitative easing were the only things that kept things alive during the Obama years.

It certainly wasn't the jobs creation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ack88 said:

Good point. It is the proverbial am I better off now than I was four years ago?

IMO, I am better off and generally approve of Trump's economic policies. IMO, on the economy, while the Democrats could make that argument, I think Trump could make a stronger one. Of course, that is my personal opinion and I can't speak for everyone, but generally, I like GOP economic policies better.

Right. And I disapprove for the reasons I stated in the OP. But unless you’re from Michigan, Wisconsin or Pennsylvania, it doesn’t matter what you or I think- those are the people who will be deciding whether or not Trump is to be re-elected. 

Now in 2016 Trump made the argument to those people that the economy wasn’t good for them; even though the stock market was going up, they weren’t seeing manufacturing jobs. That is still the case. So for Trump to win this time around he either has to reverse his argument, or fool these people into thinking they’re better off when statistics show they are not. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unemployment Rate for Women Falls to Lowest Since 1953

 

Thank you Mr President 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, HellToupee said:

Hispanic Unemployment Rate Sets New Record Low in April

https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-bannister/hispanic-unemployment-rate-sets-new-record-low-april

Thanks Donald 👍

 Black unemployment, Hispanic unemployment- these are the strongest arguments that Trump can make against charges of bigotry. Absolutely true. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Ack88 said:

Right. And unemployment is under 4% under Trump and the stock market under Trump is higher than at any point than Obama.

 

Ballgame, folks.

Wait, what?  Obama takes unemployment from over 10% to under 5%, and in two and a half years, Trump gets it down another point and THAT'S the major accomplishment?  Umm, wow.  Just wow. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, JuniorNB said:

Wait, what?  Obama takes unemployment from over 10% to under 5%, and in two and a half years, Trump gets it down another point and THAT'S the major accomplishment?  Umm, wow.  Just wow. 

I asked you to name a metric where Obama outperformed Trump.

You said Obama brought unemployment to 5%.

I countered, as Trump's unemployment is under 4%.

How is an unemployment rate of 5% greater than that of an unemployment rate of 4%?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Unemployment Rate for Women Falls to Lowest Since 1953

 

Thank you Mr President 

At least Blutarksky had the guts to link the source for that one (Breitbart). Why were you afraid to do so? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, timschochet said:

At least Blutarksky had the guts to link the source for that one (Breitbart). Why were you afraid to do so? 

Huh? Was there something not truthful in the link?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ack88 said:

How is an unemployment rate of 5% greater than that of an unemployment rate of 4%?

What was the unemployment rate prior to them taking office?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

 Black unemployment, Hispanic unemployment- these are the strongest arguments that Trump can make against charges of bigotry. Absolutely true. 

How? Those rates have been dropping for years.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Now the political question becomes: should the Democratic candidates talk about the economy, knowing that, even though they have a decent argument to make it’s a nuanced one, and that the truth is most voters are not great with nuance? 

Or should they concentrate on healthcare? Or on Trump’s divisive rhetoric and actions? Forget about just and unjust, right and wrong: how best to win? 

Never run from a political issue.

Trump’s policies on debt, deficit, tariffs, regulation and social security are risky. Just say and talk intelligently about it.

However there have been some hokey plans floated - Yang’s dividend plan is one, I think I just saw some candidate (Warren?) proposed just giving out x hundred or thousand $$ to every citizen, etc. Don’t be gimmicky, act like you know how to run things.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Actually the fundamental question is even simpler: “is my situation better?” 

And here I believe the Democrats have an argument to make that it really isn’t. 

I cannot say that my wife and I are doing a whole lot better.

Of course we have more money to put into savings and stuff like that but that's probably because we have an "empty nest" and when the kids left...the income stayed here.  But we aren't shopping for a yacht or anything like that.

I am thrilled to see how good my daughters are doing though.
They're making much more money than my wife & I did at their age.
They've already purchased homes.....I didn't buy my first home until I was 35.

Although I am on the back nine...I am very optimistic for my kids and their families.....   (as long as someone doesn't get elected to screw it all up)

Edited by Opie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, sho nuff said:

How? Those rates have been dropping for years.  

They have. Make no mistake- Obama does deserve some credit for that.

The larger point, one that many in this thread are denying based on personal and political animus, is that Trump does, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Short term plans to provide short term gains to short term thinkers. Not something I celebrate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

At least Blutarksky had the guts to link the source for that one (Breitbart). Why were you afraid to do so? 

When you can’t attack the message , attack the messenger 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And Dems should listen to some Trump voters (yes). The point has been made that Trump acts like he cares and is trying to do something to help the rust belt. Let’s avoid real policies for the moment, that is rhetoric that people appreciate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TobiasFunke said:

The problem is when he does stuff like this where he appears reasonable to people who don't know any better because he's using numbers and charts and links and stuff.  This stuff probably should get a response in case some reasonable person reads it and gets the wrong information.  It's different than his usual trolling, which is generally harmless and easy to ignore.

The only reason I posted the reminder was because he stated that in the tax thread, so I thought there was a chance that people hadn't seen his own words.  He made that comment under very similar topic circumstances in that thread after revealing he's financial planner or investment counselor of some sort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Ack88 said:

They have. Make no mistake- Obama does deserve some credit for that.

The larger point, one that many in this thread are denying based on personal and political animus, is that Trump does, too.

Most have said he gets some credit...

Edited by sho nuff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

Booming economy and Federal deficit to rise to $900 billion for 2019, highest since 2012: CBO. Tax cuts still gonna be paid for by aging baby boomers and their children and grand children.

Yup. Like I said, economy is built on a house of cards right now. Artificially boosted to make Trump look great in the moment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html

 

 

This is from February 2019:

 

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/13/694199256/u-s-national-debt-hits-22-trillion-a-new-record-thats-predicted-to-fall

The U.S. government's public debt is now more than $22 trillion — the highest it has ever been. The Treasury Department data comes as tax revenue has fallen and federal spending continues to rise. The new debt level reflects a rise of more than $2 trillion from the day President Trump took office in 2017.

Despite being in the second-longest economic expansion since the post–World War II boom, the U.S. is projected to rack up annual deficits and incur national debt at rates not seen since the 1940s, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Over the next 10 years, annual federal deficits — when Congress spends more than it takes in through tax revenues — are expected to average $1.2 trillion, which would be 4.4 percent of gross domestic product. That's far higher than the 2.9 percent of GDP that has been the average for the past 50 years.

"Other than the period immediately after World War II, the only other time the average deficit has been so large over so many years was after the 2007–2009 recession," the CBO said last month.

Annual deficits and the national debt rose to new heights under the Obama administration, and the trend has continued under President Trump.

As a share of the U.S. economy, the national debt stood at 78 percent of GDP in 2018. But the CBO says it will rise to 93 percent by the end of 2029. Again, those numbers put the ratio at levels not seen since just after World War II.

"By 2029, debt is estimated to reach $28.7 trillion," the CBO said in January, referring to federal debt held by the public — a figure that doesn't include the billions of dollars that the government owes to itself. In recent years, those intragovernmental holdingshave hovered well above $5.5 trillion.

"This milestone is another sad reminder of the inexcusable tab our nation's leaders continue to run up and will leave for the next generation," reads a joint statement from former GOP Sen. Judd Gregg and former Democratic Gov. Ed Rendell, the co-chairmen of the nonpartisan group Campaign to Fix the Debt.

Calling on Congress to cut into the national debt, Gregg and Rendell said, "The fiscal recklessness over past years has been shocking, with few willing to step up with a real plan. We need responsible leadership to fix the debt, not a worsening of partisanship."

The U.S. hit the new height despite Trump's promises on the campaign trail that he would reduce America's debt load. Almost exactly four years ago, he said that if the national debt topped $21 trillion by the end of President Obama's term in office, "Obama will have effectively bankrupted our country."

The national debt nearly doubled under Obama: It was $10.6 trillion when he took office and was nearly $20 trillion when he left. The rise has been blamed on factors from the Great Recession to wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and rising costs of Social Security and Medicare. Many of those pressures still exist.

Trump has long said that he knows how to solve America's debt problem. As he said in 2015, "When you have $18-$19 trillion in debt, they need someone like me to straighten it out."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, timschochet said:

At least Blutarksky had the guts to link the source for that one (Breitbart). Why were you afraid to do so? 

LOL at guts.  It takes guts to post here?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.