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Dynasty & Redraft: WR Diontae Johnson, Steelers

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27 minutes ago, KingPrawn said:

That's only 250 yds per game and 2.5 TDs - 4 of which went to Claypool yesterday. Between 3 WRs, TE and the RBs that pie is sliced pretty thin

Equally confusing is saying they didn’t open it up against the bad teams but will be pass happy against Baltimore and Cleveland who they both have to still play twice. Baltimore has rarely been anything other than smash mouth football and the last time they played Cleveland Myles Garrett tried to turn into Jason Vorhees. Doubt that’s going to be a pass happy escapade either. 

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6 minutes ago, Iceman03 said:

Equally confusing is saying they didn’t open it up against the bad teams but will be pass happy against Baltimore and Cleveland who they both have to still play twice. Baltimore has rarely been anything other than smash mouth football and the last time they played Cleveland Myles Garrett tried to turn into Jason Vorhees. Doubt that’s going to be a pass happy escapade either. 

Maybe it was confusing to you - but my point of who they played so far was to show that their defense has faced four terrible offenses this season and when they play better opposing offenses, their offense may need to carry them more.

Baltimore was the highest scoring offense in 2019 by the way and while Garrett has been a force teams have thrown all over Cleveland this season - they are ranked 30th in pass defense.

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Yeah, I’m going to hold onto Johnson for now.  At least I have Connor.  Still feels like DJ is headed from WR 2/1 to WR 2/3, both with the emergence of Claypool and DJs inability to stay on field so far. But we’ll see.   I do get and agree with @Dr. Octopus points however. 

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I think this  "down on Diontae" over Claypools emergence or he is made of glass talk is a terrible overreaction and this coming from someone who I''d be willing to bet if I stacked up the leagues I've been impacted by his early losses I'll have suffered more then anyone in here.

He played the entire year last year with a groin injury he suffered in training camp that needed surgery when the season was over. He's playing through a toe injury right now. I don't see anyone questioning his toughness but that should put an end to that talk.

He's not a big guy but the anyone of any size can get concussed on a solid hit to the head. And as for the back injury again that stuff can happen to anyone. Is he starting to cook up a high list of ailments on his resume? Yes but that happens to players sometimes and we see a lot of them get over it as they get more used to the NFL.

As for his role on the team it's secure and I see Claypool not impacting that in the least, if anything should help open things up.

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People think 4000 and 40 is a small pie to split? 40 would have led the league last year and 4000 was close to 10th.

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😂 Johnson might lead the team in receptions.  From the over reactions here, my take is buy low especially in PPR.

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1 hour ago, Grid71 said:

😂 Johnson might lead the team in receptions.  From the over reactions here, my take is buy low especially in PPR.

If he can stay on the field.   I’m not starting him until he plays a full game again.  

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1 hour ago, Grid71 said:

😂 Johnson might lead the team in receptions.  From the over reactions here, my take is buy low especially in PPR.

At this point there are significant questions about his ability to stay healthy. It’s hard to lead a team in anything from the sidelines. 

Dynasty he’s a great buy. Not “low” in my league unfortunately because the guy who drafted him is as staunch a believer as anyone in this topic.

For Redraft it’s fair to start wondering if he can be trusted. This is the 2nd or 3rd game he’s faded with injury? Hard to put that in your lineup in an important game until he’s strung together 2-3 healthy appearances. 

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Good points all.

Was just thinking say he practices full all this week.  Put him in vs Cle or bench for the likes of a Viska Shenault or similar?

I think Diontae's upside remains but man those injury floor games are tough.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

At this point there are significant questions about his ability to stay healthy. It’s hard to lead a team in anything from the sidelines. 

Dynasty he’s a great buy. Not “low” in my league unfortunately because the guy who drafted him is as staunch a believer as anyone in this topic.

For Redraft it’s fair to start wondering if he can be trusted. This is the 2nd or 3rd game he’s faded with injury? Hard to put that in your lineup in an important game until he’s strung together 2-3 healthy appearances. 

I've honesty never approached my lineup that way. If it were one injury he kept aggravating then maybe I could see it, but right now I don't even view Johnson as injury prone. Just had some fluky bad luck.

If I were ranking in redraft today, I'd still have Johnson as a top-20 WR, and wouldn't be benching him for inferior players, just because he happened to get hurt early in games. 

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1 minute ago, travdogg said:

I've honesty never approached my lineup that way. If it were one injury he kept aggravating then maybe I could see it, but right now I don't even view Johnson as injury prone. Just had some fluky bad luck.

yeah, but when “flukey bad luck” becomes a trend rather than an exception it makes me a little gun-shy about running that player out again next week. If it happens once it feels like bad luck. Twice and it’s really bad luck. The 3rd time I start kicking myself for continuing to run out a guy who can’t finish a game.  

1 minute ago, travdogg said:

If I were ranking in redraft today, I'd still have Johnson as a top-20 WR, and wouldn't be benching him for inferior players, just because he happened to get hurt early in games. 

Never said to bench inferior players,  but at some point the reality is that a player who can finish a game isn’t inferior to a player who can’t. 

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The over-reactions on this board are hysterical at times. 

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4 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

yeah, but when “flukey bad luck” becomes a trend rather than an exception it makes me a little gun-shy about running that player out again next week. If it happens once it feels like bad luck. Twice and it’s really bad luck. The 3rd time I start kicking myself for continuing to run out a guy who can’t finish a game.  

Never said to bench inferior players,  but at some point the reality is that a player who can finish a game isn’t inferior to a player who can’t. 

Wait, are we finding “trends” in four games samples sizes now? What about when he played 16 games last season?

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Wait, are we finding “trends” in four games samples sizes now? What about when he played 16 games last season?

No. I’m simply saying for this year, he’s becoming hard to trust.

He’s now played 1 full game & has left parts of 3 others. One after a 2-week layoff because of last week’s BYE.

If I had a comparable or even slightly lesser option, I might start them over DiJo next week as a “show me” game. 

not saying he’ll never stay healthy again or making a sweeping generalization. Just observing the reality that these first 4 games have been. He’s hard to trust right now, with injuries piling up. 

Contrary to another poster I would be more, not less concerned about having multiple different injuries. One injury might get better. Several different ones means several different ones that could recur. 

And back injuries scare me in general. They don’t heal as well or as fast & they tend to be susceptible to recurrence. I don’t know the specifics of DiJo’s, but if it was bad enough for him to miss most of the game I’d be a little worried if I were an owner. 

 

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Just now, Hot Sauce Guy said:

No. I’m simply saying for this year, he’s becoming hard to trust.

He’s now played 1 full game & has left parts of 3 others. One after a 2-week layoff because of last week’s BYE.

If I had a comparable or even slightly lesser option, I might start them over DiJo next week as a “show me” game. 

not saying he’ll never stay healthy again or making a sweeping generalization. Just observing the reality that these first 4 games have been. He’s hard to trust right now, with injuries piling up. 

Contrary to another poster I would be more, not less concerned about having multiple different injuries. One injury might get better. Several different ones means several different ones that could recur. 

And back injuries scare me in general. They don’t heal as well or as fast & they tend to be susceptible to recurrence. I don’t know the specifics of DiJo’s, but if it was bad enough for him to miss most of the game I’d be a little worried if I were an owner. 

 

He’s left two games one with a concussion and one with a back injury - drawing any conclusion based on that is poor logic.

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8 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

He’s left two games one with a concussion and one with a back injury - drawing any conclusion based on that is poor logic.

The only conclusion I’m drawing is that he hasn’t finished 75% of his games this year.

Seems less like logic and more like math. 

And if as a DiJo owner you’re not concerned about 

1. 1 concussions in a 3 game span 

or 

2. a back injury 

you’re not taking the nature of these injuries seriously.

how many concussions can a player have in today’s NFL before they shut him down for the year? 

And that doesn’t even include the foot/toe or whatever the lower leg injury he’s been dealing with for weeks was. 

 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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3 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

The only conclusion I’m drawing is that he hasn’t finished 75% of his games this year.

 

 2 concussions in a 3 game span 

 

 

?????

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Just now, Hot Sauce Guy said:

The only conclusion I’m drawing is that he hasn’t finished 75% of his games this year.

Seems less like logic and more like math. 

And if as a DiJo owner you’re not concerned about 

1. 2 concussions in a 3 game span 

or 

2. a back injury 

you’re not taking the nature of these injuries seriously.

how many concussions can a player have in today’s NFL before they shut him down for the year? 

 

It’s been two out of four. That’s 50% and you are drawing a conclusion based on that. You literally called it a trend and said you couldn’t start him until he strings 2-3 games together. 
 
Please provide a link to him suffering two concussions this season.

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1 minute ago, menobrown said:

?????

Oops - misread as 2 concussions. He has had 1. I corrected my post: my bad. 

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Quote


Please provide a link to him suffering two concussions this season.

Just corrected my post. No need to link. I’d misread as 2.  He has had 1. 

And he left 2 games and didn’t return. The 3rd game he spent portions on the sideline due to injury. It is indeed 3/4.

 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

You literally called it a trend

it literally has been one this season. Since week 1 he hasn’t had a full week of practice due to injuries.

if it happened one week that’s an outlier. When it happens every week it’s a _________.

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

Just corrected my post. No need to link. I’d misread as 3. He has had 1. 

And he left 2 games and didn’t return. The 3rd game he spent portions on the sideline due to injury. It is indeed 3/4.

 

Stop. You’re counting a game where he left for a series but still led his team in targets during that game as one of the games he “missed”. 

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Just now, Dr. Octopus said:

Stop. You’re counting a game where he left for a series but still led his team in targets during that game as one of the games he “missed”. 

It supports my contention that he’s hard to trust. 

When he left the game I doubt owners were brimming with confidence. More likely holding their breath.

Look, I want him to stay healthy as much as anyone - when he’s out there JJSS performs much better.

But he’s hard to trust. It’s a fact. 

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2 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

It supports my contention that he’s hard to trust.

It's a contention based on garbage data.  Feel free to keep sticking to your guns here, but it's laughable at this point.

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Hey, if this is my impression then maybe some owners are thinking the same. Run out and buy low. 

Not the owner in my dynasty league - I tried. But that dude is also a Steelers fan, so...yeah. 

But I can’t be the only one seeing his injury status every week & his trouble staying on the field. Maybe it’s an opportunity. Sometimes owners get sick of worrying about a dude, losing games or seeing a Red Cross next to their name. Opportunity knocks? :shrug: 

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Just now, tangfoot said:

It's a contention based on garbage data.  Feel free to keep sticking to your guns here, but it's laughable at this point.

It’s just an opinion.

The data is solid. He has basically missed half his games and now has a foot and a back injury. 

Those are facts.

what you do with those facts is on you. 

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Just now, Dr. Octopus said:

We have very different definitions of “fact” I guess.

Nah - the fact is that he has a back injury bad enough to knock him out of a game. 

That’s a “fact”, right?

And he hasn’t had a full week of practice all year. 

Also a “fact;” right?

Seems like it’s a matter if you wanting the facts to not be true that’s at issue here.  More like an opinion problem. 

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I will cross my fingers that DiJo can break the pattern of injury this year & get right/stay healthy.. It’s become clear to me that the entire Steelers offense functions better with him on the field. 

He’s also fun to watch. 

Good luck, DiJo owners. 

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5 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Hey, if this is my impression then maybe some owners are thinking the same. Run out and buy low. 

Not the owner in my dynasty league - I tried. But that dude is also a Steelers fan, so...yeah.

Ah, I see what's happening here.

The old #### On A Player You're Trying To Trade For ploy.  Keep on keeping on, my brother.

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8 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

Ah, I see what's happening here.

The old #### On A Player You're Trying To Trade For ploy.  Keep on keeping on, my brother.

Not in the slightest.  I tried to deal for him last week, and discovered that I had none chance of buying low. So no, I am not trying to trade for him. 

I am not #### on him at all. I am pointing out the reality of his injuries.

this is a ridiculous take, and one not based remotely in reality. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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was 1 of my favorite WR targets heading into the season - drafted him in 2 leagues, dealt him prior to this week in 1 league with deep rosters (and I was decimated with RB injuries) for TY Hilton & Philip Lindsey after unsuccessfully trying to package him as a centerpiece in a deal for Delvin Singletary 

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Let's all be honest, DJ being banged up already this season has opened a huge door for Claypool. All of those targets that Ben seemed to be forcing upon DJ just might not be there (in the same capacity) as a couple of weeks ago.

I think expectations have to be lowered based on that.

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

You have claimed that he did not finish 3 out of 4 games and suffered two concussions this season. Neither were true. You obviously had to give in on the concussions because you made it up. But you still stuck to your guns on the 3/4 despite the fact he was “out” for one series and still lead his team in targets that game.

I made a mistake on the 2 concussions.

he left two games and didn’t return. He left one game a few times and did. In the context of “trust” I didn’t see much of a difference there.  

Quote

You claiming “he’s hard to trust” is called an opinion, but you claim it’s fact.

no, it is my opinion that he’s hard to trust. I never claimed that as fact. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

:shrug:

Yes. The fact is that Is my opinion. 

youre playing games with semantics here. 

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3 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

You sure?

Positive. You can’t bottle “trust” - it is not a tangible commodity that can be proved or disproved. Trust is, by nature, opinion-based.

Obviously. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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Just now, tricky92 said:

Let's all be honest, DJ being banged up already this season has opened a huge door for Claypool. All of those targets that Ben seemed to be forcing upon DJ just might not be there (in the same capacity) as a couple of weeks ago.

I think expectations have to be lowered based on that.

I did not get a feeling Ben was forcing things to DJ and do not feel  as if he's going to cut into Diontae's target load much. DJ is just a much more developed route runner and what little Claypool cuts into his targets I think you'll see benefit of Claypool helping open things up.

I'm not saying this as wishful thinking but I have a strong degree of confidence  that if Diontae can remain on the field  everyone that invested in him will be happy.

In terms dynasty purposes they are going to let JuJu walk and these are you two starting WR's for next few years  and on that note my main dynasty concern for both of them is QB and it's really my only concern.

 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Yes. The fact is that Is my opinion. 

youre playing games with semantics here. 

I’m playing games with semantics? That’s hysterical. Sorry I won’t derail the thread anymore and I think it’s clear what happened here.

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1 minute ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I’m playing games with semantics? That’s hysterical. Sorry I won’t derail the thread anymore and I think it’s clear what happened here.

Yes - i don’t trust DiJo and you want to make a federal case out of it because he’s your mancrush. Completely clear. 

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3 minutes ago, menobrown said:

In terms dynasty purposes they are going to let JuJu walk and these are you two starting WR's for next few years  and on that note my main dynasty concern for both of them is QB and it's really my only concern.

 

agree with this. 

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9 minutes ago, tricky92 said:

Let's all be honest, DJ being banged up already this season has opened a huge door for Claypool. All of those targets that Ben seemed to be forcing upon DJ just might not be there (in the same capacity) as a couple of weeks ago.

I think expectations have to be lowered based on that.

Johnson was getting those targets because he's the best route runner, and probably best RAC WR they have. If anything Johnson's week 1-2 numbers should have been better but Ben just missed a couple big plays.

Using Claypool for those targets would be a misuse of resources, of both Johnson and Claypool. 

While Claypool broke out replacing Johnson, I think the guy in real trouble(assuming Claypool is here to stay, which I think he is, though not to this extent) is JuJu. JuJu isn't doing anthing after the catch, or getting much separation. He's under 10 YPC, and hasn't been a target hog, despite Johnson(still the target leader) essentially missing 2 games. JuJu has been TD or bust, and is probably the 3rd best WR on the team. 

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3 minutes ago, travdogg said:

Johnson was getting those targets because he's the best route runner, and probably best RAC WR they have. If anything Johnson's week 1-2 numbers should have been better but Ben just missed a couple big plays.

Using Claypool for those targets would be a misuse of resources, of both Johnson and Claypool. 

While Claypool broke out replacing Johnson, I think the guy in real trouble(assuming Claypool is here to stay, which I think he is, though not to this extent) is JuJu. JuJu isn't doing anthing after the catch, or getting much separation. He's under 10 YPC, and hasn't been a target hog, despite Johnson(still the target leader) essentially missing 2 games. JuJu has been TD or bust, and is probably the 3rd best WR on the team. 

Worth pointing out that Juju’s best 2 games were the full and partial game with DiJo on the field. JJSS accounted for 3 TDs in those 2 games. 

I believe Johnson’s presence helps JJSS production, just as JJSS getting defensive attention helped Claypool. 

If they can get all 3 healthy it’s gonna be fireworks for this offense. 

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2 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Worth pointing out that Juju’s best 2 games were the full and partial game with DiJo on the field. JJSS accounted for 3 TDs in those 2 games. 

I believe Johnson’s presence helps JJSS production, just as JJSS getting defensive attention helped Claypool. 

If they can get all 3 healthy it’s gonna be fireworks for this offense. 

We've found the common ground.

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Yeah, I don't see how what transpired yesterday could be seen as a positive for DJ... and it just about buries Washington.

I started to view DJ as a possible WR1 going forward this season, but not really seeing it now.

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3 minutes ago, travdogg said:

We've found the common ground.

This is true, and Big Ben is the real beneficiary.

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13 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Yes - i don’t trust DiJo and you want to make a federal case out of it because he’s your mancrush. Completely clear. 

For the record, I also have a mancrush on DJ. I very reluctantly traded him last week.

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2 minutes ago, tricky92 said:

For the record, I also have a mancrush on DJ. I very reluctantly traded him last week.

As everyone knows, I don’t get judgey over mancrushes. It’s part of FF.

this year it’s Calvin Ridley for me. :wub: 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

As everyone knows, I don’t get judgey over mancrushes. It’s part of FF.

this year it’s Calvin Ridley for me. :wub: 

I traded both of my mancrushes last week (DJ and Robinson) in a package deal to get Kamara from the Chubb owner (also sent Hunt and received Edmonds and Slayton).

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Guys this isn't a 4 game sample. This is close to a 20 game sample. Diontae was banged up all year last year too. I'm not saying he can't get healthy and learn how to protect himself better I'm just saying it's not totally ridiculous to start thinking he might be injury prone. The evidence is building towards that. 

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51 minutes ago, menobrown said:

 

In terms dynasty purposes they are going to let JuJu walk and these are you two starting WR's for next few years  and on that note my main dynasty concern for both of them is QB and it's really my only concern.

 

I've never been a JuJu fan and felt like this was likely after seeing Diontae start to flash last year. I have however heard JuJu might be willing to take a lot less to stay. Depending on how little he's willing to take he might stay with Pittsburgh but it'll still be the Claypool/Diontae show.

I thought it would be Diontae taking over as the WR1 in Pittsburgh but I'm not as confident with that given Diontae's ever growing list of injuries. Claypool might end up being the #1 with Diontae being the #2. Their games don't seem to overlap though so they should fit well together. 

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34 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Guys this isn't a 4 game sample. This is close to a 20 game sample. Diontae was banged up all year last year too. I'm not saying he can't get healthy and learn how to protect himself better I'm just saying it's not totally ridiculous to start thinking he might be injury prone. The evidence is building towards that. 

He did not miss a game last season. Every player is banged up over the course of a season. 

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