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Dr. Octopus

In this thread I rank my favorite Rolling Stones songs: 204-1 (The great debate, Beatles v. Stones, rages on)

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4 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:
4 hours ago, zamboni said:

That's the main issue I have with the Stones - the time frame of their legendary material (IMO 1965-1972) is a fraction of the time frame of their crappy material (post Tattoo You). The hanging on has brought them exponential wealth, but IMO diminishes them well beneath the Beatles, who left at the top of their games.

That's fair but you can't blame them for continuing to do what they love and getting extremely wealthy from it.

I don't think any band or artists should stop creating just because their creative peak has come and gone.  The Stones even lasting past the 70s as a band is amazing. Tattoo You was their last good album all the way through in my opinion, and that came out in '81.  After that they released 7 more albums up until now. That isn't many albums over the last few decades. Elton John has never stopped creating music, and his and Bernie's stuff isn't what it was in the 70s.  Like the Stones play their classics live, Elton mainly plays his 70s and early 80s stuff live. Willie Nelson is 86, and still puts out an album almost every year, and still tours all the time. He loves what he does.

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I guess i can understand not liking Jagger's voice if you didn't grow up with it but can't see how it matters. That's like not liking Satchmo's voice. Both of em changed how words enter your head as much as Dylan changed why they should. If you can't hear that and grok it on that basis, we dont need you.

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Just now, wikkidpissah said:

I guess i can understand not liking Jagger's voice if you didn't grow up with it but can't see how it matters. That's like not liking Satchmo's voice. Both of em changed how words enter your head as much as Dylan changed why they should. If you can't hear that and grok it on that basis, we dont need you.

I am curious if those that are turned off by Mick's voice, are they also turned off by Bob Dylan's and Neil Youngs' voices, because their voices are not sweet to the ears either.

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Some songs I think Jagger sounds good on (many early songs), and some songs I hate his vocals, mainly when he tries to sound country or otherwise changes up his voice.  But his basic register was fine on both rock/blues and ballads.  We are way too early in the thread to give out examples, but I think you know which songs I am talking about.

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On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 2:03 PM, wikkidpissah said:

To be totally racist about it, Jagger chops his songs - and later wrote syllables tailored for doing so - with a black man's id and a white man's ego.

By the way I love this description of his singing style.

I'm actually surprised so many people are that turned off by his voice. Like I said he's not technically a great singer but we're not talking about Geddy Lee levels of irritation here. He does well with what he has, and is pretty versatile as we will see as this list progresses.

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

By the way I love this description of his singing style.

I'm actually surprised so many people are that turned off by his voice. Like I said he's not technically a great singer but we're not talking about Geddy Lee levels of irritation here. He does well with what he has, and is pretty versatile as we will see as this list progresses.

We've been a bit overdue for a Rush love/hate match. Someone else can tackle a top 200 Rush song list next.

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3 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

Some songs I think Jagger sounds good on (many early songs), and some songs I hate his vocals, mainly when he tries to sound country or otherwise changes up his voice.  But his basic register was fine on both rock/blues and ballads.  We are way too early in the thread to give out examples, but I think you know which songs I am talking about.

yeah, the country thing is pathetic, in virtually every aspect. i figured to deal with that down the line...

 

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13 hours ago, krista4 said:

Are the Stones able to be cut up into eras the way people think (rightly or wrongly) the Beatles were?  I understand of course that they've had many more years.  I'm just wondering, as an education to me, how Stones fans would divide the various time periods.  And within those recognized divisions, what are the distinctions?

Interesting question. I'm a big fan of both bands, and I would say the Beatles get two eras that break at Rubber Soul (the first weed album, right?) But the Stones... we can talk about the three different guitarists, and yea, "Get Off My Cloud" is different than "Sympathy for the Devil", but I have a hard time with any break and defining point. The sound matured (as did the Beatles), but the Beatles maturation feels very different to me. It's clearer. 

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1 minute ago, zamboni said:

We've been a bit overdue for a Rush love/hate match. Someone else can tackle a top 200 Rush song list next.

and i'll list my 204 favorite porcine grooming habits after that!

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

By the way I love this description of his singing style.

I'm actually surprised so many people are that turned off by his voice. Like I said he's not technically a great singer but we're not talking about Geddy Lee levels of irritation here. He does well with what he has, and is pretty versatile as we will see as this list progresses.

Ok, since you brought Rush into it, I will say that's one band that released excellent studio stuff right up to the end. Assuming one is a fan, of course. 

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11 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

Some songs I think Jagger sounds good on (many early songs), and some songs I hate his vocals, mainly when he tries to sound country or otherwise changes up his voice.  But his basic register was fine on both rock/blues and ballads.  We are way too early in the thread to give out examples, but I think you know which songs I am talking about.

Oh help me, please doctor, I'm damaged.

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5 minutes ago, zamboni said:

We've been a bit overdue for a Rush love/hate match. Someone else can tackle a top 200 Rush song list next.

Just to be safe there, maybe list their 2 most popular instrumentals on top. Just to give Geddy a break. 

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7 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

yeah, the country thing is pathetic, in virtually every aspect. i figured to deal with that on down the line...

FYP

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12 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

and i'll list my 204 favorite porcine grooming habits after that!

"Red Pancetta"

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The Stones were a blues band that had to play what made $$$$$$$.  Which meant rock and roll, they would have been happy just playing blues.

Brian Jones a HUGE Elmore James fan,  James a legendary slide guitar blues icon.  When Jones and Jagger first met it was about blues records.

The Beatles not really blues trenched like The Stones, not so hard edged,  more mellow, more about lyrics.

I like both about the same, it's more my mood at the time.

I do doubt we can find any two rock bands combined with more great songs than those two.

Stones more beer drinking, Beatles more hitting a joint.

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17 minutes ago, zamboni said:

We've been a bit overdue for a Rush love/hate match. Someone else can tackle a top 200 Rush song list next.

I am not a huge fan but do not hate Rush, but I can see why Lee's voice would turn people off. I would like them a lot more if their songs were not sung by the Wicked Witch of the West.

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1 minute ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I am not a huge fan but do not hate Rush, but I can see why Lee's voice would turn people off. I would like them a lot more if their songs were not sung by the Wicked Witch of the West.

with lyrics like a Munchkinland proclamation....

Edited by wikkidpissah
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19 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

yeah, the country thing is pathetic, in virtually every aspect. i figured to deal with that down the line...

 

It will surely come up. I'll have to defend Michael Phillip a bit on his "country" voice it seems. I do get why that would irritate people at least though.

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I am not a huge fan but do not hate Rush, but I can see why Lee's voice would turn people off. I would like them a lot more if their songs were not sung by the Wicked Witch of the West.

Sounds like a witch hunt.

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17 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Oh help me, please doctor, I'm damaged.

that song cracks me up - and is forthcoming.

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21 minutes ago, jwb said:

Ok, since you brought Rush into it, I will say that's one band that released excellent studio stuff right up to the end. Assuming one is a fan, of course. 

I wouldn't say I'm a fan but I do like a lot of their early stuff - for me there is clearly a definitive break for when they started going downhill.

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2 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

I call for a Special Persecutor!

Before Geddy turns you into a newt.

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197.  Hand of Fate

Year: 1975

US Album: Black and Blue

Songwriter: Jagger/Richards

 

“The wind blew hard, it was stormy night. He shot me once, but I shot him twice.”

The Black and Blue album was an eclectic collection which featured reggae, funk and jazz tracks (we’ll be talking about them down the line) but also some straightout rockers like this one.

Long time session musician Wayne Perkins takes the lead guitar duties on this song (and two others) after Eric Clapton pushed for him to get an audition to replace Mick Taylor in the band. He shows some nice tone here and Keith weaves in splendidly. Of course, the gig would end up going to Ronnie Wood who played on three other songs on this record – two of which will appear in these rankings – and was the one who got his picture on the cover.

Edited by Dr. Octopus
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in for the ride!  good on ya dr octopus!  i'm a casual fan.  always liked most of what they put out.

 

my uncle is a HUGE stones fan.  he even looks like mick.  my uncle played guitar and sang.  he always, always had hot wimmens at his house.  one time at a pretty big party, his 50th?, my mom and i were standing together.  she looked around the room and proclaimed, 'i think your uncle has slept with every woman in this room"  :lmao:  most were now married or divorced, or remarried. growing up, the stones were always on at his house.  fond memories for sure.

 

eta:  @krista4  this is the uncle that has the boat in seattle.  

Edited by DA RAIDERS
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4 hours ago, wikkidpissah said:

it is to swoon. the bands i worked with did not rate the pro groupies - except the SUNY poetry professor who'd glam up to troll bands each summer i've previously chronicled in these pages - but Miss Buell hung out at Bearsville a li'l bit and i don't think i've ever been so instantly & permanently smitten. it was something higher than lust - angels sang and grapes were heavily exchanged as we wore out the clouds with our forbidden love

 

WHAT?  nfw ...

The Beebs - as Jack Nicholson called her.

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of course nfw. just met her. my instant dream, upon thought or witness of her, is so fervent & tactile that, even 45 yrs later, i failed to qualify the fantasy as such

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196. Down the Road A Piece

Year: 1965

US Album: The Rolling Stones, Now!

Songwriter: Don Raye

 

This song was first recorded in 1940 by the Will Bradley Trio. The shout out to “8 Beat Mack” in the lyrics, a reference to their drummer Ray McKinley, was changed to “Kicking McCoy” in Chuck Berry’s version and then to “Charlie McCoy” by the Stones, likely for drummer Charlie Watts.

This give us an opportunity to throw a little praise towards Mr. Watts, the backbone of the Stones. The guy can do it all and never sought the spot-light, just wanted to do his job. We’ll give him some more love down the road (no pun intended) but this rollicking number gives him a pretty nice showcase.

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28 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

196. Down the Road A Piece

Year: 1965

US Album: The Rolling Stones, Now!

Songwriter: Don Raye

 

This song was first recorded in 1940 by the Will Bradley Trio. The shout out to “8 Beat Mack” in the lyrics, a reference to their drummer Ray McKinley, was changed to “Kicking McCoy” in Chuck Berry’s version and then to “Charlie McCoy” by the Stones, likely for drummer Charlie Watts.

This give us an opportunity to throw a little praise towards Mr. Watts, the backbone of the Stones. The guy can do it all and never sought the spot-light, just wanted to do his job. We’ll give him some more love down the road (no pun intended) but this rollicking number gives him a pretty nice showcase.

Couldn't find better proof where the root of all Richards' riffmeistering lives - in the back pocket of Chuck Berry. To ring & drive & lend instant identity to songs, change the shape of Chuck's chords and achieve a heroin nod for strumming purposes. Otherwise, don't change a thing.

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195. Sittin' on a Fence

Year: 1966

US Album: Flowers

Songwriter: Jagger/Richards

 

“One thing’s not said too much but I think it’s true. They just get married cause there’s nothing else to do.”

This Jagger/Richards composition was first given to a British duo known as Twice as Much who released it in May of 1966. It was a Top 40 hit on the UK Charts and a Top 100 US single.

The Stones version was recorded during the Aftermath sessions but was not included on that record but made its way onto Flowers which was more a collection of songs taken from other sessions, rather than an album.

It’s a pretty simple acoustic guitar driven song with Brian once again showing his versatility by playing the harpsichord. A few of the early Stones records really expressed some chauvinistic views towards woman, including this one. Although at least these lyrics are not quite as biting as some others, that will appear later, and express more of a sense of bewilderment and innocence than the anger in some of the others.

 

Edited by Dr. Octopus

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194. What a Shame

Year: 1965

US Album: The Rolling Stones, Now!

Songwriter: Jagger/Richards

 

“You might wake up in the morning and find your poor self dead”

 

This is an early attempt for the Stones to write their own Blues song instead of covering one and they pull it off wonderfully.

It showcases what each member did best; Brian playing slide; Charlie and Bill keeping the backbeat masterfully, Keith weaving in and out of the lead; and Mick singing the blues and blowing the harp.

The song also features “the sixth Stone” Ian Stewart on piano. Stewart was a member of the band in their early years playing the clubs, but management and record company execs thought he was too much older and not good looking enough to fit their image. He became their roadie and and a contract session man once they signed with Decca records. The Stones had a wide array of talented piano/keyboard players sit in throughout the years including Jack Nitzsche, Chuck Leavell, Nicky Hopkins, Ian McLagen and Billy Preston, but Ian Stewart always hung around until his death 1985.

 

Edited by Dr. Octopus
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24 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

194. What a Shame

Year: 1965

US Album: The Rolling Stones, Now!

Songwriter: Jagger/Richards

 

“You might wake up in the morning and find your poor self dead”

 

This is an early attempt for the Stones to write their own Blues song instead of covering one and they pull it off wonderfully.

It showcases what each member did best; Brian playing slide; Charlie and Bill keeping the backbeat masterfully, Keith weaving in and out of the lead; and Mick singing the blues and blowing the harp.

The song also features “the sixth Stone” Ian Stewart on piano. Stewart was a member of the band in their early years playing the clubs, but management and record company execs thought he was too much older and not good looking enough to fit their image. He became their roadie and and a contract session man once they signed with Decca records. The Stones had a wide array of talented piano/keyboard players sit in throughout the years including Jack Nitzsche, Chuck Leavell, Nicky Hopkins, Ian McLagen and Billy Preston, but Ian Stewart always hung around until his death 1985.

 

Stew is pretty much the reason there is a Rolling Stones. IIRC, he used to hold forth on the blues at a club or coffeehouse and young blues purists (the hip alternative to skiffle) Mick & Keith sat at his feet for hour after hour. When Ian auditioned for a band somewhere and they liked him, he recommended his two young acolytes as well. Auditioner Brian Jones said awright and the rest is stonestory. In Richards' very entertaining & informative autobiography,  it's clear to see that he considered Stew his musical dad and really seethed at leaving him behind in the name of glory. What a shame...

Edited by wikkidpissah
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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

 a wide array of talented piano/keyboard players sit in throughout the years including Jack Nitzsche, Chuck Leavell, Nicky Hopkins, Ian McLagen and Billy Preston, 

 

Billy was both the 6th Stone & the 5th Beatle!

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8 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Coming soon - and I agree.

oh, yeah - and love it. it's just that the Beatles early songwriting tropes - i'm guessing because they went modal rather than just minor-y - arent as tiresome as the Stones' "courtly" shtick

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7 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

Billy was both the 6th Stone & the 5th Beatle!

and, oddly enough, the 7th Pointer Sister

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21 hours ago, simey said:

I am curious if those that are turned off by Mick's voice, are they also turned off by Bob Dylan's and Neil Youngs' voices, because their voices are not sweet to the ears either.

I cant listen to Dylan.  I like the Stones, but not even 10 percent as much as I like the Beatles.  I easily can skip a stones song on my playlist. 

Pretty big Neil fan.  

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 193. Family

Year: 1975

US Album: Metamorphosis

Songwriter: Jagger/Richards

 

192. Down Town Suzie

Year: 1975

US Album: Metamorphosis

Songwriter: Bill Wyman

 

These two songs were both released on the Metamorphosis album, which wasn’t really a Rolling Stones album. It was compilation album of their outtakes released by their former manager Allen Klein after the Stones left his label, ABKCO Records to form their own label.

Family was originally recorded for the Beggars Banquet album but was not included on it. Keith Richards was the sole guitarist and this was Nicky Hopkins on piano. If some one would have told me this was a Kinks song if I heard it without knowing anything about it, I would believe it. Mick’s vocals even sound like Ray Davies.

Downtown Suzie was originally recorded for the Let It Bleed album and is one of two songs in this countdown written by Bill Wyman. Unlike the one that will come later, Bill did not sing lead vocals on this one. This song features famous session guitarist Ry Cooder on lead (who will make another appearance later on). It’s a very different sounding song for the Stones, and another song that could pass for the Kinks. Strangely enough the original title was Lisle Street Lucie during the Let It Bleed sessions and the name was changed when it was put on Metamorphosis despite the name Lucie and not Suzie being featured prominently in the lyrics.

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mainly due to this thread, I just dropped about $50 on ITunes filling out my Stones collection with whatever I was missing of the '64-'68 stuff :thumbup:

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1 hour ago, jomar said:

mainly due to this thread, I just dropped about $50 on ITunes filling out my Stones collection with whatever I was missing of the '64-'68 stuff :thumbup:

This could be the last time, this could be the last time, may be the last time, i don't know, oh no!

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3 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

 193. Family

Year: 1975

US Album: Metamorphosis

Songwriter: Jagger/Richards

 

192. Down Town Suzie

Year: 1975

US Album: Metamorphosis

Songwriter: Bill Wyman

 

These two songs were both released on the Metamorphosis album, which wasn’t really a Rolling Stones album. It was compilation album of their outtakes released by their former manager Allen Klein after the Stones left his label, ABKCO Records to form their own label.

Family was originally recorded for the Beggars Banquet album but was not included on it. Keith Richards was the sole guitarist and this was Nicky Hopkins on piano. If some one would have told me this was a Kinks song if I heard it without knowing anything about it, I would believe it. Mick’s vocals even sound like Ray Davies.

Downtown Suzie was originally recorded for the Let It Bleed album and is one of two songs in this countdown written by Bill Wyman. Unlike the one that will come later, Bill did not sing lead vocals on this one. This song features famous session guitarist Ry Cooder on lead (who will make another appearance later on). It’s a very different sounding song for the Stones, and another song that could pass for the Kinks. Strangely enough the original title was Lisle Street Lucie during the Let It Bleed sessions and the name was changed when it was put on Metamorphosis despite the name Lucie and not Suzie being featured prominently in the lyrics.

Didn't think there was any pre-80s Stones i didn't know about (tho '75 woulda been a good year to sneak sumn past me). Can't say I'm happy to have that void filled and, after those sessions, i don't think there's enough smack left to make me forget.

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On 5/8/2019 at 5:30 AM, Dr. Octopus said:

200. Down Home Girl

Year: 1965

US Album: Rolling Stones, Now!

Songwriter: Jerry Leiber/Artie Butler

 

“Every time I kiss you girl it tastes like Pork and Beans”

 

The early part of this countdown list will be littered with cover songs as that is what dominated their early recordings. I’ll admit to downgrading covers a bit, just because…but they did have a knack for choosing great covers.

This song was written by Jerry Leiber (one half of the famous Lieber/Stoller combo) and Artie Butler and was originally recorded by New Olreans' musician Alvin Robinson. A year later the Stones recorded it and added a harmonica to make it more bluesy and replaced the horn riff with guitar. The lyrics are a tad racist and would likely not fly under today’s standards but times change and mostly for the better.

This is the Stones at their down and dirtiest.

 

I like their downest and dirtiest.  This was great.  As you know (if you read my write-ups), I tended to downgrade most of the covers a bit, too.  

On 5/8/2019 at 8:01 AM, wikkidpissah said:

 

Jagger & Richards wrote the music, but Brian Jones created the original Stones vibe of Dickens kids who took over the palace. That went as far as Jonesy - an intentionally disagreeable bloke - did, into Let It Bleed. That, their greatest album, gave Mick the freedom to write what he wanted (Jonesy, not a songwriter but a professional naysayer, but was serendipitously too loaded to interfere much here) and some real anthems came from it, which Richards just barely kept up with. When the 2nd Mick came along, it gave the 1st Mick a chance for some real "what about this, what about that" and the Stones best era of songwriting began with, instead of Mick chopping melodies out of Keith's riffs or his own simplistic piano structures, there were Mick songs & Keith songs like the John & Paul syndrome with the Beatles. That ended w Goat's Head Soup, they drifted thru It's Only, and Ronnie - who'd been Rod Stewart's Keith Richards - came aboard to give Keith a mate like Mick had with Mick. That held water thru their great revenge with Some Girls (beating disco @ it's own game w "Miss You" and punk at its w "Shattered") in '78 and the fade began, the Stones imitating themselves with occasional brilliance breaking through. The Glimmer Twins struggled a lot more than John/Paul/George to become writers but held their peak for a dozen years as such instead of five for the 'Pudlians.

I could use a diagram or flowchart of this.

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On 5/8/2019 at 11:17 AM, simey said:

I am curious if those that are turned off by Mick's voice, are they also turned off by Bob Dylan's and Neil Youngs' voices, because their voices are not sweet to the ears either.

Nope, I am not turned off by either of their voices.  I don't care if someone has a "good" voice - plenty of artists I enjoy don't.  There is a special mugging quality to Jagger's that makes me slightly stabby.  That said, some of the earlier stuff that Doc Oc has been posting doesn't seem to have that, and I'm enjoying those songs.

Edited by krista4
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On 5/8/2019 at 2:17 PM, simey said:

I am curious if those that are turned off by Mick's voice, are they also turned off by Bob Dylan's and Neil Youngs' voices, because their voices are not sweet to the ears either.

I am, yes.  I readily admit I have no musical talent or an ear for it.  I just like what I like.  And I do like some Stones songs.

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On 5/8/2019 at 1:39 PM, Dr. Octopus said:

196. Down the Road A Piece

Year: 1965

US Album: The Rolling Stones, Now!

Songwriter: Don Raye

 

This song was first recorded in 1940 by the Will Bradley Trio. The shout out to “8 Beat Mack” in the lyrics, a reference to their drummer Ray McKinley, was changed to “Kicking McCoy” in Chuck Berry’s version and then to “Charlie McCoy” by the Stones, likely for drummer Charlie Watts.

This give us an opportunity to throw a little praise towards Mr. Watts, the backbone of the Stones. The guy can do it all and never sought the spot-light, just wanted to do his job. We’ll give him some more love down the road (no pun intended) but this rollicking number gives him a pretty nice showcase.

IT'S A CHARLIE SHOWCASE!

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10 minutes ago, krista4 said:

Nope, I am not turned off by either of their voices.  I don't care if someone has a "good" voice - plenty of artists I enjoy don't.  There is a special mugging quality to Jagger's that makes me slightly stabby.  That said, some of the earlier stuff that Doc Oc has been posting doesn't seem to have that, and I'm enjoying those songs.

:lol: 

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