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Abortion thread: (1 Viewer)

Yes.  The body will continue with changes after the death of the fetus if it remains implanted or connected because the pregnancy is fairly far along.  It’s one of the medical reasons for D&C abortion after 15-16 weeks or so.  It’s very dangerous for the woman and can lead to sepsis and death.  

Same with ectopic pregnancies. That’s where the pregnancy develops outside of the uterus. 
The pregnancy ended when the unborn died - there is no longer a pregnancy. The woman will not continue onward pregnant. you understand that, right ? and the reason is ... the unborn died

Yes, the woman's body has to readjust - like after miscarriages and abortions where women suffer greatly. 

Ectopic is the one thing everyone can agree on has to be addressed medically I think. 

 
The Handmaid’s Tale describes a Christian theocracy based on idiotic laws based on the religious precepts of Christianity. In such a world I wouldn’t think we would blame all Christians for that.
I've never read it, but sounds very muslim to me to be honest but its fiction, call it what you want

 
The pregnancy ended when the unborn died - there is no longer a pregnancy. The woman will not continue onward pregnant. you understand that, right ? and the reason is ... the unborn died

Yes, the woman's body has to readjust - like after miscarriages and abortions where women suffer greatly. 

Ectopic is the one thing everyone can agree on has to be addressed medically I think. 
What would you call the physical state of the woman with a fetus inside her after its death? I understand you object to “pregnant” so I’m trying to figure out what the heck you would call it. 

 
What would you call the physical state of the woman with a fetus inside her after its death? I understand you object to “pregnant” so I’m trying to figure out what the heck you would call it. 
the physical state of a woman that had a baby die in her - my wife had that Henry Ford, do not sit on your high horse and think you know people when you don't

 
the physical state of a woman that had a baby die in her - my wife had that Henry Ford, do not sit on your high horse and think you know people when you don't
I haven’t said I do and I’m not saying anything insulting.  I’m sorry for your loss.

 I’m saying that when it happens and the fetus remains the woman’s body is still pregnant. 

 
“We’re not trying to take away women’s rights or control women. This isn’t the Handmaid’s Tale.”

Counterpoint: Bill in the Kentucky legislature filed by a woman who is fed up with the current bills  

https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/recorddocuments/bill/19RS/HB148/HFA1.pdf
This would be a real boon to the notary industry. Would also expand government jobs substantially.  I wonder if "child bearing age" would be set at a specific age or if after say 8 years of age all girls would have to undergo a menstruation check of some kind.  I suppose in the future the whole process could get streamlined by some sort of app.

 
Felt this editorial in the LA Times (NRO's Jonah Goldberg) was a very fair take and captured things pretty well.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-goldberg-abortion-roe-alabama-law-20190521-story.html

Few excerpts the most relevant, IMO

There's a middle ground on abortion. Really

....

Polling on abortion is notoriously fraught. Wording matters enormously because many Americans themselves are conflicted on the issue. But generally, most Americans support early-stage abortions and opposition grows along with the fetus. According to Gallup, 60% of Americans support abortion rights in the first trimester, but only 13% do in the third.

...

The underlying political reality is that most Americans want a compromise, but the parties are more responsive to the activists and donors. As a result, Democrats have abandoned their “safe, legal and rare” rhetoric while Republicans are downplaying a “culture of life.” Instead each seeks to cast the other party as extreme. Republicans highlight rare late-term abortions and Democrats focus on the also rare cases of 12-year-olds impregnated by their rapist fathers.

Roe created this polarized — and polarizing — dynamic, in which the debate is dominated by the extremes. Overturning it and allowing states to pass laws that reflect majority opinion might not defuse the political passion. But at some point we are likely to find out.

 
This would be a real boon to the notary industry. Would also expand government jobs substantially.  I wonder if "child bearing age" would be set at a specific age or if after say 8 years of age all girls would have to undergo a menstruation check of some kind.  I suppose in the future the whole process could get streamlined by some sort of app.
"Want to oppress women?  There's an app for that."

 
Yesterday: "You used the wrong term to refer to the thing growing in the womb.  You're arguing in bad faith and there's no point in continuing this conversation."

Today:" "This parody amendment written by a state legislator TOTALLY DESTROYS the pro-life position."

 
Yesterday: "You used the wrong term to refer to the thing growing in the womb.  You're arguing in bad faith and there's no point in continuing this conversation."

Today:" "This parody amendment written by a state legislator TOTALLY DESTROYS the pro-life position."
You should quote where I said it totally destroys anything.  And also maybe buy one of these to help with the reach between those two statements.

Edit: also, that post was last night, not today.

 
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Breaking news: lawyer has serious conversations requiring logic and linguistic consideration during the day and makes fun of stuff at night when he drinks!

 
Now let's do the one where you quote somebody who supports the legislation that you brought to the thread.  And the reach from the parody to positions that actual people hold.
No one does.  It was specifically filed in order to demonstrate that pro-choice legislators view the path we're on as draconian and ridiculous.  Why would anyone support that?

 
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That's because it's a public copy on the Kentucky website.  It was filed as an amendment to HB 148 in February.
No way!  That is awesome.

Maybe we can just declare them all witches, or potential witches, not entitled to constitutional rights.  One did turn me into a newt. Several tied me in knots and took away my ability to reason.  A couple put me under a spell which compelled me to give them all of my wealth.

 
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I haven’t said I do and I’m not saying anything insulting.  I’m sorry for your loss.

 I’m saying that when it happens and the fetus remains the woman’s body is still pregnant. 
I lived it - no the pregnancy died when the baby died Henry Ford, Yes, a woman's body processes the death ..... but at the moment the baby dies, the pregnancy ends

to suggest it continues is pure nonesense

 
I think the point here is that women cannot be trusted with this reproductive power they have horded unto themselves.  We men ought to regulate it, monitor it, and when needs be prevent it from happening but for our permission and keep it happening absent our consent. Where do they get off wanting to act autonomously?

 
I think the point here is that women cannot be trusted with this reproductive power they have horded unto themselves.  We men ought to regulate it, monitor it, and when needs be prevent it from happening but for our permission and keep it happening absent our consent. Where do they get off wanting to act autonomously?
Seriously.  Whom do they think their bodies belong to, anyway?

 
I think the point here is that women cannot be trusted with this reproductive power they have horded unto themselves.  We men ought to regulate it, monitor it, and when needs be prevent it from happening but for our permission and keep it happening absent our consent. Where do they get off wanting to act autonomously?
Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system! Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed! Ooh, what a giveaway! Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about! Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn't you?

 
Hint:  It’s the birthplace of the Bible.
Zoroastrians?

or maybe The Epic of Gilgamesh?

or how about the Egyptian Instruction of Amenemope?

The Egyptian Book of the Dead?

Could be the Canaanites.

Hmmm... if I had to pick one, the OT stole from the Zoroastrians more than they stole from everywhere else, but the Zoroastrians are hardly a majority of the thieving.... gee.... this is hard.

Sorry, if the bible wasn't stolen from so many damn sources this would be so much easier to answer. 

 
again ... I'm not using Bible to say what abortion is

biology says what it is - its ending the life of the unborn to stop a pregnancy

 
It will be outlawed next if these men have their way. 
Again, it isn't "men" as if it is some unilateral action by evil men to usurp the will and autonomy of women.  The populace of Alabama is numerically pro-life in roughly equal proportion between men and women.  

(That said there's no way the populace wants restrictions on birth control.)

 
Again, it isn't "men" as if it is some unilateral action by evil men to usurp the will and autonomy of women.  The populace of Alabama is numerically pro-life in roughly equal proportion between men and women.  

(That said there's no way the populace wants restrictions on birth control.)
Polling from 2012 and again in 2018 showed that just 31 percent of voters in Alabama support banning abortion in all cases. Such as in this latest bill that was passed.

Alabama is 33% white male.

Care to see who actually passed the bill?  Every Senate Vote For Alabama’s Abortion Ban Was From A White Man

quack. quack. quack.

 
Again, it isn't "men" as if it is some unilateral action by evil men to usurp the will and autonomy of women.  The populace of Alabama is numerically pro-life in roughly equal proportion between men and women.  

(That said there's no way the populace wants restrictions on birth control.)
I agree it's roughly even women and men.  Probably about 1/3 support for this bill is about right.  If I had to guess from having lived here most of my life the state is 2/3 or greater pro life.  Maybe half of those people support this bill and half are uncomfortable with the lack of exceptions.  The fact that it's white men who passed it in the legislature is only because the legislature is mostly white men.  There are 4 women in the Alabama Senate out of 35 members.  All 4 of those women are Democrats.  The 27 Republican controlled seats are all white men.  So statistically anything the Republicans vote for in Alabama, and they have complete legislative control, if you use the lens of gender you could say is a male dominated issue.  But that simply isn't true as women in Alabama vote heavily Republican.

Alabama isn't anything if not a men's club politically and I'll admit to that.  But don't mistake the political figureheads with it being a male only movement.  Some of the most ardent and hard right pro life people I know are women.  This coming from someone who is against this bill.  

 
Again, it isn't "men" as if it is some unilateral action by evil men to usurp the will and autonomy of women.  The populace of Alabama is numerically pro-life in roughly equal proportion between men and women.  

(That said there's no way the populace wants restrictions on birth control.)
Polling from 2012 and again in 2018 showed that just 31 percent of voters in Alabama support banning abortion in all cases. Such as in this latest bill that was passed.

Alabama is 33% white male.

Care to see who actually passed the bill?  Every Senate Vote For Alabama’s Abortion Ban Was From A White Man

quack. quack. quack
:thanks: :brush:

 
I agree it's roughly even women and men.
I agree.  This is absolutely an American white + Christian thing. And yet "they" deny their christian-religious aspect (and thus the Lord imo) as the foundation in their argumentation all the time. Because they know how wildly unpopular it is with the USA as a whole.

And its even worse, again in imho, that they bastardize the Bible to fit their political agenda.
 
Polling from 2012 and again in 2018 showed that just 31 percent of voters in Alabama support banning abortion in all cases. Such as in this latest bill that was passed.

Alabama is 33% white male.

Care to see who actually passed the bill?  Every Senate Vote For Alabama’s Abortion Ban Was From A White Man

quack. quack. quack.
I'm sure you're right about the "all cases" (which I've noted I would have liked to see the exceptions in there).

But, make no mistake that a pro-life bill would pass readily in a general election (with the exceptions).  The whole idea of blaming 33 white guys (who were put into officer by the 50% women in the state) for a unilateral action is fake news and intellectually dishonest.  It makes for a good hysterical talking point to promulgate, I guess.  Congrats for that.

I agree it's roughly even women and men.  Probably about 1/3 support for this bill is about right.  If I had to guess from having lived here most of my life the state is 2/3 or greater pro life.  Maybe half of those people support this bill and half are uncomfortable with the lack of exceptions.  The fact that it's white men who passed it in the legislature is only because the legislature is mostly white men.  There are 4 women in the Alabama Senate out of 35 members.  All 4 of those women are Democrats.  The 27 Republican controlled seats are all white men.  So statistically anything the Republicans vote for in Alabama, and they have complete legislative control, if you use the lens of gender you could say is a male dominated issue.  But that simply isn't true as women in Alabama vote heavily Republican.

Alabama isn't anything if not a men's club politically and I'll admit to that.  But don't mistake the political figureheads with it being a male only movement.  Some of the most ardent and hard right pro life people I know are women.  This coming from someone who is against this bill.  
Pretty much yes to all of this in agreement.  The state is heavily pro-life.  The legislature is a men's club (though prior to the last 8 years it was a 130 year Democratic men's club, so very consistent there).  I am also generally against this bill, though I understand the logic.  While I'd like to see it outlawed with the exceptions I believe this bill, if affirmed, would make it very hard to unring part of that bell and put the exceptions back in.  That's a mistake.

That said I doubt SCOTUS takes up any of these cases and will let the lower courts' repudiations stand.

The most ardent pro-life folks I know are women.  

 

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