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Abortion thread: (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Not for me It isn’t. It’s a very important distinction. How many times have I written something to the effect of “just because you make a bigoted comment, that doesn’t mean you’re a bigot”?
Deliberate intent is the most important way to judge people in this world which is filled with screwups and accidents. Behavior can be wrong, but you’re only a bad person if you meant to do it. In this instance I can pretty much guarantee you that no abortion doctor shares shader’s morality about this issue, and therefore they are not the bad people he thinks they are; at worst, assuming we accept shader’s belief that abortion is wrong, they committed a bad act without knowing it was a bad act. To smile at the idea that they would go to jail for 99 years, not for evil but for ignorance, is despicable.
timschochet
Footballguy
This is a question of morals and neither I nor the doctors involve share your morality.
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I guess what I’m saying is: we are never going to agree on this issue. Those of you that are pro-life look at things very differently than I or other pro-choice people do. That will never ever change.
But we don’t need to demonize each other. We can treat each other with respect, and try to remember that almost all of us come to this situation with good will and a desire to do what’s right.
But we don’t need to demonize each other. We can treat each other with respect, and try to remember that almost all of us come to this situation with good will and a desire to do what’s right.
badmojo1006
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Except one side will win and the other will lose. And one side when they lose are anything but respectful with this issue. The entire issue is based around what's right and that's where the disagreement is.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Roe created a situation where one side won and the other side lost. That's part of the problem.
If Roe is overturned, some states will ban abortion outright, some states will restrict it, and some states will legalize it in nearly all cases. That will take a huge amount of vitriol out of the picture, because both sides will get some wins.
timschochet
Footballguy
You can only control your own behavior. Just because somebody else behaves like an ####### doesn’t mean that you have to imitate them. Personally I am outraged by what Alabama’s Republican legislators have done here. But have I called them names? Insulted them? No. Not only would that be rude, but also I try to understand their motives. They truly believe they’re helping to save lives.
timschochet
Footballguy
No I can’t agree with this. Abortion is an individual right. The idea that there could be parts of this country where it is illegal, even though I don’t live there, is abhorrent to me.
Its the same reason the abolitionists were not content to let the Missouri Compromise stand. They mostly lived in Boston and you couldn’t own slaves in Boston, but that wasn’t enough. They couldn’t tolerate slavery anywhere. I view making abortion illegal as forcing women to suffer servitude, and I can’t tolerate it anywhere.
(And Im sure most pro-life people feel the same way, conversely.)
Henry Ford
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I find this perspective baffling. I don't agree with the pro-choice position, and I will vote against it whenever I get the chance, but I get it. It doesn't unduly bother me that people in some other state might vote differently than I would.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
“We’re telling people what to do because we are right though”
timschochet
Footballguy
It doesn’t bother me how you vote. It bothers me that women might not have access to an abortion.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
tuffnutt
Footballguy
Because fanaticism and ignorance is forever busy, and needs feeding. And soon, your Honor, with banners flying and with drums beating we'll be marching backward, BACKWARD, through the glorious ages of that Sixteenth Century when bigots burned the man who dared bring enlightenment and intelligence to the human mind.
-Henry Drummond, a character in Inherit The Wind”
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
What about the potential lives you waste when you master-bate? How is that act less despicable than doctors ending potential lives? And yes, each sperm you ejaculate is a potential human life, just like a fertilized egg at 6 weeks is a potential human life.
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HellToupee
Footballguy
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HellToupee
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
I’m pro life but think this is absolutely nuts turning the clock back
gianmarco
Footballguy
When abortions become illegal, the number of unsafe abortions rise.
Unsafe abortions
And this is why @shader's stance that doctors who perform them belong in jail for 99 years is absurd. The consequence is that women will find other ways and we fall into a health crisis.
These new laws are some of the harshest in the world. That's not a good thing.
Unsafe abortions
And this is why @shader's stance that doctors who perform them belong in jail for 99 years is absurd. The consequence is that women will find other ways and we fall into a health crisis.
These new laws are some of the harshest in the world. That's not a good thing.
joffer
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
Yeah it’s a shame that people will do whatever it takes to abort a baby. Doesn’t absolve the doctor from blame.gianmarco said:
Not gonna sugarcoat my feelings on this one. But for me this isn’t a political issue or concern. I know they aren’t going to succeed with this and I know no abortion doctors will see jail time. But it still made me smile.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
tommyGunZ said:
pollardsvision
Footballguy
As a federal tax payer, I surely hope these states have a plan to pay for this. I'm not hopeful, though, as the states most likely to do this also happen to be the same ones already disproportionately sucking on the federal gubments teet.IvanKaramazov said:
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
You know they are trying to force their sensibilities onto others and not protect a human life because they are messing with established abortion laws and not trying to pass/institute a PERSONHOOD law for the unborn. They didn't even try to give it any rights, they just tried to stop something they personally have a problem with. Heck, they don't even have any public discourse about it.
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shader
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I normally agree with most of Ivan’s takes but I think he’s way off here. Overturning Roe wouldn’t remove the vitriol; it would enhance it because the nation would be consumed by this issue.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Maybe. But at least the fights would be at the state level. I see that as preferable to one side imposing its views nationally when public opinion is strongly divided and varies by state.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Following this course, many things will be attempted to be overturned and many civil rights would be lost in this battle... as belief in civil rights varies by state. The health of our nation is that we treat people throughout equally and not giving "states rights" carte blanche to pick and choose.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
If you were given a choice between states deciding the issue for themselves vs. a nationwide abortion ban, which would you rather have?
Sand
Footballguy
There is no doubt that what they drew up was not terribly well thought out. It is designed to be a stake in the ground to force SCOTUS to take it up, without much regard to practicalities.
The biggest issue with this law is that, it upheld, would not be able politically to be modified here. I don't like the lack of exceptions, nor some of the poor construction of the bill.
Your point on personhood is valid and I do see 14th amendment issues being brought up down the road.
This kind of thinking sure makes the death panel debate easier.Sammy3469 said:
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Alabama is showing progressive movements - this will catch fire and spread.
the killing of unborn babies is ending I hope - and 'Bama is the one to lead. People are sickened by killing unborn babies for convenience. They're now doing something about it. Thank God
the killing of unborn babies is ending I hope - and 'Bama is the one to lead. People are sickened by killing unborn babies for convenience. They're now doing something about it. Thank God
Jackstraw
Footballguy
Nowhere in the country does support for banning abortion reach 25%.
https://twitter.com/DataProgress/status/1128481533273178112
How about we exercise those small government/personal freedom values we all love so much and we can all each mind our own business. Why does the entire populace have to bend to the beliefs of a minority?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
toshiba
Footballguy
Jackstraw
Footballguy
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx
Don't know what to tell you. This is Gallup should abortion be illegal in all circumstances. No one reaches 25%.
Pew says all/most. Leaves people quite a bit of wiggle.
BUT STILL. Not even close to the type of overwhleming change in values of the country that would merit overturning precedent. If they overturn Roe it would simply be because the five thought thier opinions were better than the previous justices. That has NEVER been considered legitimate to overturn precedent.
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