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Abortion vs Suicide (1 Viewer)

Assisted Suicide.

  • There should be assistance for anyone wishing to commit suicide.

    Votes: 45 88.2%

  • There should NOT be assistance for anyone wishing to commit suicide.

    Votes: 6 11.8%
  • Total voters
    51
KCitons

KCitons

Footballguy
Curious the opinion on suicide by those that either support, or don't support abortion. 

My thought is, if a woman has a right to do whatever she wants with her body, should we also allow the same rights to anyone wanting to commit suicide? I also wonder, if there are programs to assist with abortion, should there be programs to assist with suicide?

 
Absolutely yes & yes. I hope when I'm near the check out line, assisted suicide will be legal across the US. Just give me that Michael Jackson drug and I'll be fine.

 
I don't think minors should have a right to commit suicide. 

But I'm okay with a mature rational decision to commit suicide.

That said, I don't think all adults who commit suicide did it with a mature rational decision, but I don't know how to draw that line. I would have to leave that the shrinks. 

 
I don't think "anyone' should be allowed commit suicide.  Minors not suffering from a terminal illness are an obvious no.  

 
I don't see the parallel between abortion and suicide.

But as somebody who has attempted suicide, didn't really care if it was legal or not.

Didn't vote in the poll

 
Politician Spock said:
I don't think minors should have a right to commit suicide. 

But I'm okay with a mature rational decision to commit suicide.

That said, I don't think all adults who commit suicide did it with a mature rational decision, but I don't know how to draw that line. I would have to leave that the shrinks. 
Click to expand...
Does this apply to abortion as well? The idea was floated that a woman wanting to have an abortion should speak to a professional first. 

 
Not enough options - I’m pro-choice in some instances but not all.  I’m pro-assisted suicide in some instances but not all.

 
Juxtatarot said:
I don't think "anyone' should be allowed commit suicide.  Minors not suffering from a terminal illness are an obvious no.  
Click to expand...
This is an interesting point, most would say that being a minor would be a reason for an abortion. 

Should age really matter with either? 

 
AAABatteries said:
Not enough options - I’m pro-choice in some instances but not all.  I’m pro-assisted suicide in some instances but not all.
Click to expand...
I think this is where a lot of people fall. Pro choice in the case of rape or incest. Pro suicide in the case of terminal illness.

But, when you take into account the comments like, "it's the woman's body, she has the right to do as she wishes". This could be applied to both abortion and suicide.

 
KCitons said:
This is an interesting point, most would say that being a minor would be a reason for an abortion. 

Should age really matter with either? 
Click to expand...
If you're asking me, yes.  I don't believe a healthy 15-year old child should be legally be allowed to commit suicide.  However, I think she should be permitted to have an abortion.

 
in my best William Barr voice:

"I'm 'grappling' with the phrase 'allowed to commit suicide'".  You think someone should be punished for a failed attempt?

 
  • Smile
Reactions: Ned
Juxtatarot said:
If you're asking me, yes.  I don't believe a healthy 15-year old child should be legally be allowed to commit suicide.  However, I think she should be permitted to have an abortion.
Click to expand...
Why?

It's been argued that she should be able to make the decisions about her body and the fetus.

 
I didn't quite answer because of the word anyone.  No...I don't think anyone should be allowed to commit suicide.  

Mainly...mentally ill who aren't making the decision with a sound mind...or others incapable of making the deicision.

Beyond that...terminally ill...if that is the person's wish...go for it.

And Im pro-choice from the standpoint of F the government telling a woman what to do.  I don't support all abortion...I loathe that abortion is even a thing that is needed in this world.  But there are legitimate reasons for it to exist and banning it makes things worse in most cases.

 
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sho nuff said:
I didn't quite answer because of the word anyone.  No...I don't think anyone should be allowed to commit suicide.  

Mainly...mentally ill who aren't making the decision with a sound mind...or others incapable of making the deicision.

Beyond that...terminally ill...if that is the person's wish...go for it.
Click to expand...
Who gets to make that decision? Either in regards to abortion or suicide?

 
sho nuff said:
I didn't quite answer because of the word anyone.  No...I don't think anyone should be allowed to commit suicide.  

Mainly...mentally ill who aren't making the decision with a sound mind...or others incapable of making the deicision.

Beyond that...terminally ill...if that is the person's wish...go for it.

And Im pro-choice from the standpoint of F the government telling a woman what to do.  I don't support all abortion...I loathe that abortion is even a thing that is needed in this world.  But there are legitimate reasons for it to exist and banning it makes things worse in most cases.
Click to expand...
again, what does this mean?  criminal liability for a failed attempt?

 
lod001 said:
Absolutely yes & yes. I hope when I'm near the check out line, assisted suicide will be legal across the US. Just give me that Michael Jackson drug and I'll be fine.
Click to expand...
I'd prefer a long drawn out morphine overdose than an instant kill shot from fentanyl.   

ETA: I'm generally for both so I won't be one that falls into the trap set out.  Most suicide people need mental health before the lethal injection tho.

 
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Neat.  Tell all the families that lost someone to suicide that we are discussing whether or not people should be allowed to commit suicide or not.  Ridiculous

 
KCitons said:
You said she should be allowed to have an abortion, but not commit suicide? If she has total control of her body, both should be acceptable.
Click to expand...
For suicide, I would like her to be forced into counselling.  She is likely making a mistake.  I don't believe she should have total control of her body in this way.

For abortion, the easiest way to explain it to you is I don't share your belief in the concept of a soul and don't view the life of a fetus the same way that you do.

 
joffer said:
again, what does this mean?  criminal liability for a failed attempt?
Click to expand...
Yeah...I guess that needs explanation.  Not sure what people are using for that.  I was more talking about just saying assisted suicide for anyone.  I think state of mind and mental capacity needs to be determined that they are making that decision on their own.

 
urbanhack said:
Neat.  Tell all the families that lost someone to suicide that we are discussing whether or not people should be allowed to commit suicide or not.  Ridiculous
Click to expand...
So a woman can do what she wants with her body (including the baby inside of her) but an adult cannot do what they want?  Seems a weird line to draw especially for this kind of passive aggressive rant.

 
urbanhack said:
Neat.  Tell all the families that lost someone to suicide that we are discussing whether or not people should be allowed to commit suicide or not.  Ridiculous
Click to expand...
Sorry you can't handle grown up conversations. 

For the record, I lost my brother in law and one of my wife's best friends to suicide. My sister also attempted suicide when she was 17. 

Thank you for your concern about me. But, okay with the discussion. 

 
KCitons said:
Should the state do anything to prevent abortions or suicides from happening? 
Click to expand...
Define "anything." I support Suicide Help Lines and would encourage anyone with suicidal thoughts to call one. I support government funded mental health care for the indigent. Buy beyond that, my answer would be no.

 
The whole premise of this thread is based on conflation of two separate and unrelated things.

In Canada, there is assisted suicide for terminally ill patients.  This is also true of some european countries.  I do not think the state should participate in suicide in any other context, except to help treat what is obviously a mental illness.

 
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KCitons said:
Should the state do anything to prevent abortions or suicides from happening? 
Click to expand...
There probably should be parameters just like most states have for abortion:

Over a certain age. Having certain terminal diseases.  Not being a use to society, say what about state mandated suicides?  You forgot death penalty in your poll.

 
tonydead said:
There probably should be parameters just like most states have for abortion:

Over a certain age. Having certain terminal diseases.  Not being a use to society, say what about state mandated suicides?  You forgot death penalty in your poll.
Click to expand...
I've heard the excuses for abortion being too young, not financially ready, etc. 

Can those be applied to suicide as viable excuses?

 
Juxtatarot said:
For suicide, I would like her to be forced into counselling.  She is likely making a mistake.  I don't believe she should have total control of her body in this way.

For abortion, the easiest way to explain it to you is I don't share your belief in the concept of a soul and don't view the life of a fetus the same way that you do.
Click to expand...
I'm on your side the of argument.  But, he's probably trying to point out that you could replace suicide with abortion in your first two sentences and a lot of people would see them as equal.

 
KCitons said:
I've heard the excuses for abortion being too young, not financially ready, etc. 

Can those be applied to suicide as viable excuses?
Click to expand...
I think the big difference with abortion is the determination of whether it is a living self aware conscious (however you want to describe it ) human being. If someone believes at X weeks, it is not truly a human being than these two conversations don't really work for comparison.

 
KCitons said:
I've heard the excuses for abortion being too young, not financially ready, etc. 

Can those be applied to suicide as viable excuses?
Click to expand...
"excuses" for what, exactly?  Accepting someone's decision that they want to kill themself?  

"I am too young.  I want to kill myself".  Doesn't make any sense because, again, you are trying to draw analogies between two things that are not analogous.

 
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Ilov80s said:
I think the big difference with abortion is the determination of whether it is a living self aware conscious (however you want to describe it ) human being. If someone believes at X weeks, it is not truly a human being than these two conversations don't really work for comparison.
Click to expand...
Right. Which is why I posted this a few minutes ago

KCitons said:
Maybe. But only if you see one of them as a loss of life. 
Click to expand...

 
KCitons said:
I've heard the excuses for abortion being too young, not financially ready, etc. 

Can those be applied to suicide as viable excuses?
Click to expand...
Individual choice, of sound mind, why not.  If it's abortion sound mind is probably works the other direction.

 
zoonation said:
"excuses" for what, exactly?  Accepting someone's decision that they want to kill themselves?  

"I am too young.  I want to kill myself".  Doesn't make any sense because, again, you are trying to draw analogies between two things that are not analogous.
Click to expand...
How about, "I can't find a job", "I can't get into a good school", "I got fired". 

All of these things are temporary issues that can be overcome. Whether it's suicide or abortion. Most things can be overcome. The exceptions for me are rape, incest or severe health risks to mother/child.

 
KCitons said:
How about, "I can't find a job", "I can't get into a good school", "I got fired". 

All of these things are temporary issues that can be overcome. Whether it's suicide or abortion. Most things can be overcome. The exceptions for me are rape, incest or severe health risks to mother/child.
Click to expand...
I get that you think they are analogous.  I don't.  

 
KCitons said:
Sorry you can't handle grown up conversations. 

For the record, I lost my brother in law and one of my wife's best friends to suicide. My sister also attempted suicide when she was 17. 

Thank you for your concern about me. But, okay with the discussion. 
Click to expand...
Sorry for your loss.  My condolences.

 
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