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timschochet

Terrible optics for Boston Red Sox visit to White House: every white player is going; every black and Hispanic player (except for Cuban JD Martinez) is staying home.

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The Warriors did make it explicitly political. When your leader won't go because of Trump's perceived racism, then yes, there's a statement being made.

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1 hour ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Times have changed, everybody and their brother has a Twitter account etc.

Everyone has the need to let everybody in the world know their thoughts now.

There will be no more Ali's

I really don't care what any of the Boston Red Sox think about anyting or any other athlete for that matter

 

Wow that's pretty cynical. 

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

Two corrections: 

1. I don’t want Trump to be racist. I’d prefer it if he wasn’t. 

2. People who agree with me, whether they are celebrities of not, don’t help to validate my viewpoint. My viewpoint on whether or not Trump is a racist can only be validated one way or the other by evidence. Unfortunately there is a lot of evidence to validate that viewpoint, so much so that any informed person who thinks he is NOT a racist, or at the very least a bigot, is IMO being disingenuous to themselves or others. 

Horrible take as usual Tim

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46 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Horrible take as usual Tim

What can I say? You’re a smart dude, you’ve seen the evidence. There’s nothing new I can tell you that you haven’t heard. If you still honestly don’t think he’s a bigot then I believe you’re fooling yourself. Probably you don’t want to believe it so you don’t. 

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

Fair enough. I accept your distinction. I didn’t mean to misrepresent anyone. 

That's exactly what you did and repeated it multiple times.  

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1 hour ago, Jackstraw said:

Wow that's pretty cynical. 

Do you give Jackie Bradley's opinion on anything any more weight than Opie's? Or Noonan's?

Why? Because he can hit a baseball?

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18 minutes ago, timschochet said:

What can I say? You’re a smart dude, you’ve seen the evidence. There’s nothing new I can tell you that you haven’t heard. If you still honestly don’t think he’s a bigot then I believe you’re fooling yourself. Probably you don’t want to believe it so you don’t. 

You mentioned today you are a half glass full type of guy.  Well, so am I.  You are correct that I don't want Trump to be a bigot or a racist.  I have looked at every article and argument you guys have posted and I am confident that Trump is not a racist.  Perhaps you and others are seeing what you want to see since he has an R next to his name.  I choose not to label someone as a racist or murderer unless it is proven and there is no way you can prove Trump is a racist.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

You mentioned today you are a half glass full type of guy.  Well, so am I.  You are correct that I don't want Trump to be a bigot or a racist.  I have looked at every article and argument you guys have posted and I am confident that Trump is not a racist.  Perhaps you and others are seeing what you want to see since he has an R next to his name.  I choose not to label someone as a racist or murderer unless it is proven and there is no way you can prove Trump is a racist.

They will never comprehend that a vast majority of the time someone uses the term racist, they are being subjective.  Not everyone has the same threshold for what is racist and what isn’t.  

Edited by knowledge dropper
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7 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

You mentioned today you are a half glass full type of guy.  Well, so am I.  You are correct that I don't want Trump to be a bigot or a racist.  I have looked at every article and argument you guys have posted and I am confident that Trump is not a racist.  Perhaps you and others are seeing what you want to see since he has an R next to his name.  I choose not to label someone as a racist or murderer unless it is proven and there is no way you can prove Trump is a racist.

OK. I think you’re being honest but I have no idea how any reasonable, informed person can reach that conclusion. Let me add a couple of points: 

1. Your comment about “because he has an R next to his name” is uncalled for. It’s rude and offensive and it certainly doesn’t represent my thoughts or most people here who oppose Donald Trump. I hope you take it back; if you truly believe it then I will have little reason to engage in discussion with you in the future. 

2. A murderer is a person who commits a specific act. A racist is a person who holds a set of beliefs. There is no way to prove someone is a racist in the same way that we can (theoretically) prove someone is a murderer, so this is a very flawed argument on your part. All I can do in the case of Trump is offer the evidence of his statements and actions over the years. The rest is up to you. 

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18 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

You mentioned today you are a half glass full type of guy.  Well, so am I.  You are correct that I don't want Trump to be a bigot or a racist.  I have looked at every article and argument you guys have posted and I am confident that Trump is not a racist.  Perhaps you and others are seeing what you want to see since he has an R next to his name.  I choose not to label someone as a racist or murderer unless it is proven and there is no way you can prove Trump is a racist.

It’s not enough that they hate Trump, you have to hate him too

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8 minutes ago, timschochet said:

OK. I think you’re being honest but I have no idea how any reasonable, informed person can reach that conclusion. Let me add a couple of points: 

1. Your comment about “because he has an R next to his name” is uncalled for. It’s rude and offensive and it certainly doesn’t represent my thoughts or most people here who oppose Donald Trump. I hope you take it back; if you truly believe it then I will have little reason to engage in discussion with you in the future

2. A murderer is a person who commits a specific act. A racist is a person who holds a set of beliefs. There is no way to prove someone is a racist in the same way that we can (theoretically) prove someone is a murderer, so this is a very flawed argument on your part. All I can do in the case of Trump is offer the evidence of his statements and actions over the years. The rest is up to you. 

LOL.  Yeah, that's the rude and offensive part of this thread.  

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6 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

It’s not enough that they hate Trump, you have to hate him too

I don’t hate Donald Trump. 

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4 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

LOL.  Yeah, that's the rude and offensive part of this thread.  

Yes it was. 

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You should always respect the office 

policy wise, we have record low unemployment for POC...rising wages

Trump has supported prison reform, a policy which has had widespread support in the minority community. 

He is also pushing to spend a lot of money rebuilding our cities

Even being tougher on illegal immigration is helpful to the working poor in terms of jobs and wages - an argument that even Bernie Sanders has made.  

So you have all of that versus the typical media slander campaign against any Republican 

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6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Yes it was. 

I'm typing this trying to be serious from a discussion standpoint and not look at things from a personal perspective.  I do want to point out that you just got offended that someone stated you had your beliefs because that person happened to be a Republican.  Let's compare that feeling to how someone would feel who was told that they either support someone who is a racist or that if they can't see it then they are misinformed or fooling themselves.  So either they support a racist or are by inference either willfully supporting a racist or too ignorant to know better.  To me, one is way worse of an accusation than the other.  That's probably why the reactions are what they are.

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15 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I don’t hate Donald Trump. 

You sure make it appear you do.

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11 minutes ago, John Blutarsky said:

You sure make it appear you do.

Some posters here aren't very honest.  I found that out pretty quickly

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39 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

It’s not enough that they hate Trump, you have to hate him too

In all fairness there is a reason he’s the most divisive President in history (at least recent history as I’m no historian).  It’s not like we’re talking about some milk toast personality.  Policies aside he doesn’t exactly represent the best in us, truthfully he represents the worst in us.  

Again policies aside, it’s not hard to understand why those of us who despise him struggle to see how others don’t (especially those who seem intelligent and rational like many of you here are).   

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43 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I don’t hate Donald Trump. 

Hide this post before the boys turn on you

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1 hour ago, Don't Noonan said:

You mentioned today you are a half glass full type of guy.  Well, so am I.  You are correct that I don't want Trump to be a bigot or a racist.  I have looked at every article and argument you guys have posted and I am confident that Trump is not a racist.  Perhaps you and others are seeing what you want to see since he has an R next to his name.  I choose not to label someone as a racist or murderer unless it is proven and there is no way you can prove Trump is a racist.

How would you prove anyone is a racist unless they come right out and tell you "Hey I am a racist." 

Can you prove David Duke is a racist? 

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15 minutes ago, supermike80 said:
26 minutes ago, John Blutarsky said:

You sure make it appear you do.

 Some posters here aren't very honest.  I found that out pretty quickly

Hate to me is a very personal feeling.  Meaning I couldn’t hate someone I don’t personally know and even then that person would have needed to do something pretty extreme to invoke that feeling.  I truly view it as the opposite of love which the above criteria holds true for me for the most part as well. 

I certainly don’t hate Trump but I despise him and am embarrassed he is the representation of who we are as a nation.  

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2 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Hate to me is a very personal feeling.  Meaning I couldn’t hate someone I don’t personally know and even then that person would have needed to do something pretty extreme to invoke that feeling.  I truly view it as the opposite of love which the above criteria holds true for me for the most part as well. 

I certainly don’t hate Trump but I despise him and am embarrassed he is the representation of who we are as a nation.  

Many people and the dictionary say despise is  similar to hate.

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36 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

I'm typing this trying to be serious from a discussion standpoint and not look at things from a personal perspective.  I do want to point out that you just got offended that someone stated you had your beliefs because that person happened to be a Republican.  Let's compare that feeling to how someone would feel who was told that they either support someone who is a racist or that if they can't see it then they are misinformed or fooling themselves.  So either they support a racist or are by inference either willfully supporting a racist or too ignorant to know better.  To me, one is way worse of an accusation than the other.  That's probably why the reactions are what they are.

I don’t believe most people that support Donald Trump are racist or bigots. I certainly don’t believe most Republicans are racist or bigots. I certainly DO believe that Donald Trump is a bigot and racist. 

You tell me where to go with those beliefs. What I wrote is my honest conclusion: that most well-informed people who are fans of Donald Trump are either willing to look the other way or are fooling themselves about his racism. That is, I must admit, a criticism of those people. It is not an insult or slander. It’s a flaw in their thinking; it doesn’t make them bad people and it certainly doesn’t make them racist or bigots themselves. I can’t see how what I just wrote is offensive at all, but I’m sorry if you or others find it that way. 

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3 minutes ago, John Blutarsky said:

Many people and the dictionary say despise is  similar to hate.

It’s similar but not the same. 

For me it’s not a personal thing. It’s just that I reserve my hatred for truly evil people: murderers, rapists, dictators. Trump is IMO a bad guy, a jerk, a bigot, and I dislike him intensely. But he doesn’t fall into the hatred category. 

Also for better or worse he’s my President. He’s the leader of the greatest country that has ever existed, and so ultimately I support him and want him to succeed in making this nation safe and prosperous. This morning I praised President Trump for his new healthcare proposals. I wish there were more instances in which I could praise him. I really don’t like being critical all the time. 

As usual, what I wrote here is the honest truth. I don’t enjoy being called a liar, as Supermike has just done. 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

It’s similar but not the same. 

For me it’s not a personal thing. It’s just that I reserve my hatred for truly evil people: murderers, rapists, dictators. Trump is IMO a bad guy, a jerk, a bigot, and I dislike him intensely. But he doesn’t fall into the hatred category. 

Also for better or worse he’s my President. He’s the leader of the greatest country that has ever existed, and so ultimately I support him and want him to succeed in making this nation safe and prosperous. This morning I praised President Trump for his new healthcare proposals. I wish there were more instances in which I could praise him. I really don’t like being critical all the time. 

As usual, what I wrote here is the honest truth. I don’t enjoy being called a liar, as Supermike has just done. 

Oh Tim, if I could pull from your bag of splitting hairs.

I didn't call you a liar, I said some people on this board are dishonest.   That's not the same thing.  

 

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

Oh Tim, if I could pull from your bag of splitting hairs.

I didn't call you a liar, I said some people on this board are dishonest.   That's not the same thing.  

 

Whatever. I don’t like being called dishonest. But you’re free to think what you like. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

Whatever. I don’t like being called dishonest. But you’re free to think what you like. 

Tim's bag of splitting hairs part Deux:

I didn't say YOU were dishonest, I said some people are dishonest.

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17 minutes ago, John Blutarsky said:

Many people and the dictionary say despise is  similar to hate.

Lots of things are similar that doesn’t make them the same.  As I said hate has a personal connotation to me, like love.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I don’t believe most people that support Donald Trump are racist or bigots. I certainly don’t believe most Republicans are racist or bigots. I certainly DO believe that Donald Trump is a bigot and racist. 

You tell me where to go with those beliefs. What I wrote is my honest conclusion: that most well-informed people who are fans of Donald Trump are either willing to look the other way or are fooling themselves about his racism. That is, I must admit, a criticism of those people. It is not an insult or slander. It’s a flaw in their thinking; it doesn’t make them bad people and it certainly doesn’t make them racist or bigots themselves. I can’t see how what I just wrote is offensive at all, but I’m sorry if you or others find it that way. 

I would think of it as that someone just doesn’t agree with my conclusion. We all have personal bias but when you disagree with someone on such a topic of whether or not someone is a racist it’s better in my eyes to accept the possibility someone else simply doesn’t agree. That doesn’t mean they condone racism or are looking the other way or even misinformed. They may just look at the same circumstances and reach a different conclusion. In their mind they are as sure they are right as you are. So in their eyes they aren’t condoning a racist or anything of the sort and most people I think would and do take offense at being labeled as such. It comes off as arrogant that your view is the only one. 

That said I’m not offended but can see how people would be. I tend to operate in a pretty blunt business so I really lost the ability to get my feelings hurt or offended long ago. 

Edited by Shula-holic

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16 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Whatever. I don’t like being called dishonest. But you’re free to think what you like. 

Then don't be dishonest

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18 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

I would think of it as that someone just doesn’t agree with my conclusion. We all have personal bias but when you disagree with someone on such a topic of whether or not someone is a racist it’s better in my eyes to accept the possibility someone else simply doesn’t agree. That doesn’t mean they condone racism or are looking the other way or even misinformed. They may just look at the same circumstances and reach a different conclusion. In their mind they are as sure they are right as you are. So in their eyes they aren’t condoning a racist or anything of the sort and most people I think would and do take offense at being labeled as such. It comes off as arrogant that your view is the only one. 

That said I’m not offended but can see how people would be. I tend to operate in a pretty blunt business so I really lost the ability to get my feelings hurt or offended long ago. 

Why is that?  Why would people take offense to being called a racist? 

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So ridiculous to think we think he’s racist because he has an R next to his name. Anyone who knew of him knew he was a racist when he was a proud democrat. He is a man of principle, and would always choose race over party

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30 minutes ago, randall146 said:

So ridiculous to think we think he’s racist because he has an R next to his name. Anyone who knew of him knew he was a racist when he was a proud democrat. He is a man of principle, and would always choose race over party

Well to be fair I believe it is a combination of both him being a "Republican" now and justifying questionable evidence to make come to that conclusion.  It is by no means a slam dunk as Tim suggests.

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49 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Well to be fair I believe it is a combination of both him being a "Republican" now and justifying questionable evidence to make come to that conclusion.  It is by no means a slam dunk as Tim suggests.

As always with optics it’s the angle you’re looking at it that often supports the view.  There is no question this applies to Trump here.  

Depending on ones starting point you can get where you want to go with him.   

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