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Beer News - Sam Adams and Dogfish Head Merging (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
Wow, those 90 min dogfish IPAs are nice.
It's interesting. I know they're not really but I think of Sam Adams as nearly Macro now.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Never been a big fan of dogfish head. Never understood how people got so excited to be able to buy one 12 oz beer when 120 minute would come out.
I also think the intentional words of "merger" vs "acquired" is interesting. And cool for both.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Now that I think about it Sam is technically a macro brewery and I assume DFH is as well. I guess I meant more on par with what Bud, Miller, etc where they have the distro range and marketing.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I also consider them a "macro" acknowledging of course they are no where near the level of Bud/Miller. These terms ("macro brewery" "craft brewery") might not have much meaning anymore. There was a time they kept changing the definition of "craft" to allow Sam Adams to keep calling itself that. I think they sell something like 5 million barrels of beer a year now and are publicly traded.
The beer geeks will probably hate this, but if it means better access or better pricing on Dogfish products, I'm all for it. I love most all of their beers I've had, but they are for the most part priced well out of my wheel-house.
Punxsutawney Phil
Footballguy
Many of the larger micro breweries have started joining up, if they haven't been bought. Maybe they were finally feeling the pressure, but didn't want to completely sell out.
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
Yeah I thought they found a way to stay under the limit. Maybe they’ll just move the goalpost again
i wonder if we’ll start seeing more of this, especially east and west coast mergers or things like that to improve distro
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Don't really love this, but I'm just a beer fan who doesn't know much about the industry.
I love Dogfish Head. I consider Sam Adams to be a decent alternative to a better beer, above the likes of Miller, Coors, and Bud etc. but below the endless numbers of smaller brewery IPA's I enjoy.
Oh well. DFH was a good, easy "go to" beer for me but ever since I moved to a city with tons of access to a constantly growing number of IPA's, I've needed that "go to" less and less. I prefer to try new stuff everywhere I go or if I'm grabbing a 4/6-pack anyways, now.
I'm sure they're using the word "merger" rather than "acquisition" to try to keep whatever street cred DFH has as a higher quality beer among beer snobs (compared to Sam Adams).
I love Dogfish Head. I consider Sam Adams to be a decent alternative to a better beer, above the likes of Miller, Coors, and Bud etc. but below the endless numbers of smaller brewery IPA's I enjoy.
Oh well. DFH was a good, easy "go to" beer for me but ever since I moved to a city with tons of access to a constantly growing number of IPA's, I've needed that "go to" less and less. I prefer to try new stuff everywhere I go or if I'm grabbing a 4/6-pack anyways, now.
I'm sure they're using the word "merger" rather than "acquisition" to try to keep whatever street cred DFH has as a higher quality beer among beer snobs (compared to Sam Adams).
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Yeah I thought Sam Adams production level was in a weird spot where they were not big enough to be a macro but too big to be a micro. Or something like that. At least their production level was way below the macros and way above all the micros
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
DFH's brewery was the single best thing about living (briefly) in Delaware. Better than tax-free shopping, even.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
Sadly they are now my third favorite in Delaware. I like the breweries proper but I can’t drink the distributed stuff. And I prefer the Revelation brewery when I end up in Delaware. Much like Sam Adams, I’m happy to drink it when I have no options but i prefer to choose the rarer beer when given a choice
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I'd hope that's what it means. I spend about $350/month on beer, but haven't had DFH in a long-time because of the price. $10-12 6-packs aren't too far out of line, but every beer purchase I make is measured against a $15-18 12-pack of Sierra Nevada Torpedo. That's a very difficult value to beat. Sam is there on price, but I've liked any of their beers that much. Plus, as much beer as I go through, I'm not buying 6 packs of anything. I spend enough time lugging beer into the house as it is.
Hopefully, this means some competitively priced 12-packs of DFH will be widely available. Or not. I don't really care that much as long as Sierra Nevada has my back.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
oh, i see 16 Mile has actually closed now.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
greedygoat
Footballguy
Yeah, I like beer.
rockaction
Footballguy
Worst beer I've ever had was a Dogfish Head Chicory Stout. I can still remember how skunked it was, and this is twenty years later.
Wow, was it ever bad. It took me a long time before I could drink their beer again, and I would drink their IPAs, which were actually pretty good for IPAs. I'm not a Dogfish aficianado, though. Sam had a good pale ale a while back, and a pretty good kolsch.
Wow, was it ever bad. It took me a long time before I could drink their beer again, and I would drink their IPAs, which were actually pretty good for IPAs. I'm not a Dogfish aficianado, though. Sam had a good pale ale a while back, and a pretty good kolsch.
JaxBill
Footballguy
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
The valuation on this makes you wonder if the bubble is bursting a little bit.
Constellation acquired Ballast Point for $1 billion in 2015. This deal reportedly values DFH at $300 million. Obviously I don't know what assets were part of these deals, but DFH is as big of a name, if not bigger, than Ballast Point was in 2015, and continues to be today. Constellation reportedly wrote-down its Ballast Point investment something like $200 million not that long ago. Maybe Calagione knew that the writing was on the wall and the valuations aren't likely to get much better than this. Gotta make the hay while the sun shines.
Still, I like that he took most of the proceeds in Boston Beer Co stock and will sit on the board. Leads me to believe that they're still very much in it for the quality of the beer, not just some sort of exit strategy.
Constellation acquired Ballast Point for $1 billion in 2015. This deal reportedly values DFH at $300 million. Obviously I don't know what assets were part of these deals, but DFH is as big of a name, if not bigger, than Ballast Point was in 2015, and continues to be today. Constellation reportedly wrote-down its Ballast Point investment something like $200 million not that long ago. Maybe Calagione knew that the writing was on the wall and the valuations aren't likely to get much better than this. Gotta make the hay while the sun shines.
Still, I like that he took most of the proceeds in Boston Beer Co stock and will sit on the board. Leads me to believe that they're still very much in it for the quality of the beer, not just some sort of exit strategy.
jwb
Footballguy
Both are excellent beer companies. Sam has always had a bit of backlash because they got fairly big, and most other craft brewers have passed Sam's signature Boston Lager. But Sam really pioneered craft brewing (you younger folks have no idea how bad beer offerings were until around 1992 or so), and they routinely release lots of really good, really interesting limited edition beers. Plus, their Octoberfest and Winter Lager are always really good.
I like Dogfish Head too, especially the 90-minute IPA. But some of their beers get really weird.
I like Dogfish Head too, especially the 90-minute IPA. But some of their beers get really weird.
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Don Quixote
Footballguy
I think the advantage that most have found in these types of deals is added capacity. With other breweries that have been bought by larger breweries, I have not seen a change in quality, as the same people have been running things.
I had a friend who lived in the southwest ask me to send him some Dogfish Head about five years ago because it was not available by him. I'm sure DFH has grown a bit since then, but extra resources to expand capacity (like using some of their tanks), probably will help DFH expand its reach even more.
I had a friend who lived in the southwest ask me to send him some Dogfish Head about five years ago because it was not available by him. I'm sure DFH has grown a bit since then, but extra resources to expand capacity (like using some of their tanks), probably will help DFH expand its reach even more.
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Ned
Footballguy
They're the pride of DE. Most are upset that they sold out to the big dogs and concerned the quality is going to go down. Others are concerned the office staff will be cut. All the usual merger/buyout complaints.How so? In a good way or bad way?Folks here in DE are freaking out about it.
Whichever way, what are their thoughts/concerns?
Ned
Footballguy
https://www.dogfish.com/blog/merging-our-longtime-friends-beer…
They're also donating a bunch to charity.
Gawain
Footballguy
I hope that's not all for you. You're talking about 8 beers a night, every night at $17.50 a 12-pack.
HellToupee
Footballguy
I very rarely reach for a SA brew but their New England IPA is pretty tasty for a readily available beer
Moe.
Footballguy
I think the threshold for a craft brewery is 6 million barrels/year, but agree that it's an increasingly meaningless distinction. I think this move makes a lot of sense for all parties involved.
I am positively obsessed with DFH SeaQuench Ale right now, pretty much the only thing I can drink.
I am positively obsessed with DFH SeaQuench Ale right now, pretty much the only thing I can drink.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I don't think there's any doubt the valuations in the industry have come back to earth. But I think the Ballast Point deal is somewhat of a unicorn. They were owned by private equity and knew exactly what to do in the 18 months or so leading up to that deal, and then had extremely fortuitous timing with the buying frenzy in the market at that time. That valuation was something like 18X EBITDA. Where I live (Wisconsin), Sculpin went from a white whale beer to being readily available in my grocery store over the course of about a year prior to that sale. DFH first became available in Wisconsin about 10 years ago, but I still have to go to a crafty sort of bottle shop to find it.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I remember when the local ultra-beer-nerd bar got Sculpin for the first time in like 2011-ish. I remember it was February and snowy. It was a huge deal at the time. Now you can find it pretty much anywhere.
I can get the standard DFH line pretty much anywhere, grocery store, gas station etc. 120 and other more rare ones, usually at a bottle shop. I live a lot closer to Delaware than you do, though. I don't really buy DFH a ton though, I find them a little overpriced if we're being honest.
Brony
Footballguy
There was a similar backlash sentiment in Chicago when Goose Island sold to InBev. It actually hasn't worked out too bad in reality. 312 now has better distribution in the country and no beer snobs were drinking that anyway. The local part of Goose Island is still putting out new varieties of barrel aged stuff which are still very good and still popular. As long as the beer quality remains good and they support the local scene, very few people will stop buying because they 'sold out'.
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
Yeah, this was ... *calculates, double-checks, weeps silently* 15 years ago. The brewery was almost literally a hole in the wall back then. My wife and I went back once since, maybe 6-7 years ago, and I genuinely didn't recognize the place - it looked like an airport hangar compared to what I remembered.
The beer was still fantastic, though.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
The stuff they serve at the brewery is still terrific. I'm there every summer, just less than I'm at Revelation.Yeah, this was ... *calculates, double-checks, weeps silently* 15 years ago. The brewery was almost literally a hole in the wall back then. My wife and I went back once since, maybe 6-7 years ago, and I genuinely didn't recognize the place - it looked like an airport hangar compared to what I remembered.
The beer was still fantastic, though.
But this is radically different than cashing out to Inbev isn't it? I totally get the angst over selling to Inbev.
Sure, Sam Adams is big but nothing like Inbev. And they seem to have gone out of their way to stress a "merger" not an "acquisition". That may be just words but that's what they're trying to promote.
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Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I met Jim Koch in the late 80s. Ford Motor had their annual event for the auto show at Cobo Hall in Detroit. During the black tie party Koch supplied Sam Adams beer and gave a short seminar to anyone who interested. It was "free" beer so I was in. Probably 100 people showed up and Koch spoke for about 30-40 minutes on the brewing process and how get got into the beer business. At the time he was trying to get distribution in the Metro-Detroit area.
At the time nobody had ever heard of Sam Adams beer..or really any type of craft beer. Koch was wiry, very talkative and high energy..the whole time he talked he was drinking a Sam Adams.
I talked to him for a couple of minutes after and he would have talked for an hour if I wanted. So much respect for as he was by himself, wheeling in his own beer and icing it down for everyone. Said he was hitting 5-6 beer distributors in the next week doing the same thing everyday trying to get distribution. You have to realize Koch was doing this 7 days a week...I know he had to be a borderline alcoholic as he said he drank every day as part of the job...I mean he said he had to because everywhere he went he was promoting the product.
Since I was in sales at Ford at the time I was interested in talking to him .I talked to him for a couple of minutes after and he would have talked for an hour if I wanted. When I am talking distribution I mean he was hoping each distributor that picked Sam Adams up would hopefully sell 100 cases a month to start. Every truck that went our with Bud or Miller was selling 3-400 cases a day per truck. He was hoping for 100 a month total.
Never saw him again but was happy to see when Sam Adams starting gaining attention and now becoming what it is today. Starting from one guy pounding the pavement.
At the time nobody had ever heard of Sam Adams beer..or really any type of craft beer. Koch was wiry, very talkative and high energy..the whole time he talked he was drinking a Sam Adams.
I talked to him for a couple of minutes after and he would have talked for an hour if I wanted. So much respect for as he was by himself, wheeling in his own beer and icing it down for everyone. Said he was hitting 5-6 beer distributors in the next week doing the same thing everyday trying to get distribution. You have to realize Koch was doing this 7 days a week...I know he had to be a borderline alcoholic as he said he drank every day as part of the job...I mean he said he had to because everywhere he went he was promoting the product.
Since I was in sales at Ford at the time I was interested in talking to him .I talked to him for a couple of minutes after and he would have talked for an hour if I wanted. When I am talking distribution I mean he was hoping each distributor that picked Sam Adams up would hopefully sell 100 cases a month to start. Every truck that went our with Bud or Miller was selling 3-400 cases a day per truck. He was hoping for 100 a month total.
Never saw him again but was happy to see when Sam Adams starting gaining attention and now becoming what it is today. Starting from one guy pounding the pavement.
If you haven't listened to it, I'd guess you'll like the How I Built This podcast where Koch was featured. It's really good and talks about some of the same stuff.Da Guru said:
And no idea if he was doing this then, but he talks about how to drink a lot without getting drunk. https://www.esquire.com/food-drink/drinks/how-to/a26328/how-not-to-get-drunk/ . I have not tried this.
The video that goes on the page is worth watching too. It tested the theory with a guy drinking 6 beers in one sitting and it was not successful. Another guy drank more responsibly with better results.
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ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
First thing i thought as wellGawain said:
Arizona Ron
Footballguy
So are they keeping the DFH branding and just operating at a subsidiary of Sam Adams? Is calling this acquisition a "merger" just a ploy to keep the DFH customer base?
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
GoBirds
Footballguy
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