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IC FBGCav

Are for the death penalty and pro life?

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28 minutes ago, IC FBGCav said:

I just don't understand this, please enlightened me.

While I don’t fall into this category, the logic seems simple. Fetus=innocent human, murderer=not innocent person 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

While I don’t fall into this category, the logic seems simple. Fetus=innocent human, murderer=not innocent person 

Not until baptism or you go to hell.  Logic rocks.

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8 minutes ago, IC FBGCav said:

Not until baptism or you go to hell.  Logic rocks.

Whatever sect of whatever religion aside, the positions can exist together logically.

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

Whatever sect of whatever religion aside, the positions can exist together logically.

How so?

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Posted (edited)

Pro life and opposed to capital punishment. Always worries some innocent people are convicted. I am sure over the years many innocent people have been executed, especially before DNA evidence came on the scene.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-freed-inmate-white-sox-20180321-story.html

Edited by lazyike
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1 hour ago, IC FBGCav said:

How so?

I explained that in post 2

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8 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I explained that in post 2

Well you are not pro life then.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, IC FBGCav said:

Well you are not pro life then.

I clearly said I don’t fall into the category so it’s not me anything. There is still a very clear moral difference that is easy to understand between abortion and the death penalty, 

Edited by Ilov80s

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

Whatever sect of whatever religion aside, the positions can exist together logically.

Logically, sure, someone can twist themselves in knots to find a way to defend it. 

Morally? Not so much. 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

I clearly said I don’t fall into the category so it’s not me anything. There is still a very clear moral difference that is easy to understand between abortion and the death penalty, 

Okay lay out the difference.

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Fetus innocent. Person on death row guilty of horrible crimes. 

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3 minutes ago, The Narrator said:

Logically, sure, someone can twist themselves in knots to find a way to defend it. 

Morally? Not so much. 

It doesn’t take any bending to see a difference between killing something innocent and killing something has committed terrible crimes. 

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1 hour ago, IC FBGCav said:

Rectify:  thou shall not kill.

Christians have interpreted this to mean "Thou shall not commit first degree murder".

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2 hours ago, IC FBGCav said:

I just don't understand this, please enlightened me.

It seems that you just want to catch pro life people in a “gotcha!”. The same way another poster tried to argue the other day that pro-choice people need to be in favor of suicide. 

I don’t know about anyone else, but personally I’m sick to death of these sorts of “arguments”, which are designed not to convince or educate, but solely to antagonize.

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4 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Christians have interpreted this to mean "Thou shall not commit first degree murder".

It's all bs, doesn't matter.

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

It seems that you just want to catch pro life people in a “gotcha!”. The same way another poster tried to argue the other day that pro-choice people need to be in favor of suicide. 

I don’t know about anyone else, but personally I’m sick to death of these sorts of “arguments”, which are designed not to convince or educate, but solely to antagonize.

Yep, I'm pro life you know it all.  Go away.

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It seems like all the confusion could be cleared up if the two positions were called "Pro Innocent Life" and "Pro Death Penalty For The Guilty".

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11 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

It doesn’t take any bending to see a difference between killing something innocent and killing something we mostly believe has committed terrible crimes. 

Fixed that for you 

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11 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Christians have interpreted this to mean "Thou shall not commit first degree murder".

Christians (mostly) believe that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all deserve death for their sins. They worship a God, however, who showed mercy to them in their sin and gave them life when they deserved death. 

So, naturally, if someone does something bad they want to kill them. You can see how it's a natural outflow of their theology.

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so Cav, here's the thing. "Pro-life" has come to mean something very specific. It doesn't mean in our context that people choose life in every instance they have the chance. It means they believe that abortion should be illegal. So though I'm very anti-death penalty and I think abortion should be legal, the premise of the thread is a bit silly. 

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Cav, may I suggest a “Cav’s Political Ramblings While Intoxicated” or PRWI if you like, as a catch all for these threads?  Would help all of us I think.

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9 hours ago, [scooter] said:

It seems like all the confusion could be cleared up if the two positions were called "Pro Innocent Life" and "Pro Death Penalty For The Guilty".

Or anti-choice and pro-choice. Which is far more accurate.  Prolife is a marketing scheme.

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3 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

Or anti-choice and pro-choice. Which is far more accurate.  Prolife is a marketing scheme.

I don’t agree. I’ve never met anyone who opposed abortion who thought that it was anti choice; they oppose it because they believe, sincerely, that it’s the taking of an innocent life. It’s no “marketing scheme”. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I don’t agree. I’ve never met anyone who opposed abortion who thought that it was anti choice; they oppose it because they believe, sincerely, that it’s the taking of an innocent life. It’s no “marketing scheme”. 

Yeah it is. At the same time many of them cry for a fetus they sneer at the poor child who they have no interest in helping if it costs them one penny in taxes. That isn't prolife its antichoice.

In fact Tim the term prolife was acknowledged by the early founders of the movement as a way to market their cause. And they stole it from the antiwar movement and other liberal causes such as those against the death penalty. 

Edited by NCCommish

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Just now, NCCommish said:

Yeah it is. At the same time many of them cry for a fetus they sneer at the poor child who they have no interest in helping if it costs them one penny in taxes. That isn't prolife its antichoice.

As you well know, most conservatives believe that big government aid to poor people is not beneficial to poor people. They prefer smaller government and private charities. When you write that they “sneer at the poor child who they have no interest in helping” you’re affirming a stereotype that has very little resemblance to the truth. Do you truly think conservatives are as evil and uncaring as you’re making them out to be? 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

As you well know, most conservatives believe that big government aid to poor people is not beneficial to poor people. They prefer smaller government and private charities. When you write that they “sneer at the poor child who they have no interest in helping” you’re affirming a stereotype that has very little resemblance to the truth. Do you truly think conservatives are as evil and uncaring as you’re making them out to be? 

When I see children in Alabama living in 3rd world squalor and disease you're damn right I do. When I see the policies they champion that leave children hungry with no healthcare, inadequate  housing and deficient educations you're damn right I do. I dont care what they say I look at what they do. And what they do is heartbreaking , its immoral and yes it reeks of evil disregard for the human lives they claim to care so much about. So spare me the they aren't so bad shtick. Their actions are disgusting. They better hope the atheists are right or they got a real nasty surprise coming. 

If they are oh so caring and loving they need to find better representation of those feelings. 

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27 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

When I see children in Alabama living in 3rd world squalor and disease you're damn right I do. When I see the policies they champion that leave children hungry with no healthcare, inadequate  housing and deficient educations you're damn right I do. I dont care what they say I look at what they do. And what they do is heartbreaking , its immoral and yes it reeks of evil disregard for the human lives they claim to care so much about. So spare me the they aren't so bad shtick. Their actions are disgusting. They better hope the atheists are right or they got a real nasty surprise coming. 

If they are oh so caring and loving they need to find better representation of those feelings. 

IMO, the current divisiveness we have in this country starts with attitudes like yours, sorry to say. It’s not enough to disagree with the other side; you have to demonize them, make them evil. Don’t be surprised when they return the favor. 

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45 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

When I see children in Alabama living in 3rd world squalor and disease you're damn right I do. When I see the policies they champion that leave children hungry with no healthcare, inadequate  housing and deficient educations you're damn right I do. I dont care what they say I look at what they do. And what they do is heartbreaking , its immoral and yes it reeks of evil disregard for the human lives they claim to care so much about. So spare me the they aren't so bad shtick. Their actions are disgusting. They better hope the atheists are right or they got a real nasty surprise coming. 

If they are oh so caring and loving they need to find better representation of those feelings. 

So if you're okay with the mother terminating the child pre-birth, then shouldn't you be okay with terminating the child post-birth?   You know if the mother determines they no longer want the child and they live in a 3rd world area.  If you're pro-choice then you're pro-choice......

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8 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

So if you're okay with the mother terminating the child pre-birth, then shouldn't you be okay with terminating the child post-birth?   You know if the mother determines they no longer want the child and they live in a 3rd world area.  If you're pro-choice then you're pro-choice......

It isn't a child until it is viable outside the mother. Hope that helps you understand the difference. 

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26 minutes ago, timschochet said:

IMO, the current divisiveness we have in this country starts with attitudes like yours, sorry to say. It’s not enough to disagree with the other side; you have to demonize them, make them evil. Don’t be surprised when they return the favor. 

Sure as soon as I support those kinds of policies I would fully expect to be demonized. But I don't. And I won't support people that support them. So false accusations dont really mean much to me.

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See what you don't seem to get Tim, and I keep trying to explain it to you, is your vote comes with accepting responsibility for what the people you vote for do.

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Just now, NCCommish said:

See what you don't seem to get Tim, and I keep trying to explain it to you, is your vote comes with accepting responsibility for what the people you vote for do.

Not sure what that has to do with the current topic. Of course I get that. But I believe that life is nuanced and you have to look at the totality of one’s actions, measure the good vs the bad, and reach a sum evaluation which considers everything, as much as I can. And try to avoid demonization and simplistic conclusions. I don’t always achieve these goals, but it’s not for lack of effort. 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Not sure what that has to do with the current topic. Of course I get that. But I believe that life is nuanced and you have to look at the totality of one’s actions, measure the good vs the bad, and reach a sum evaluation which considers everything, as much as I can. And try to avoid demonization and simplistic conclusions. I don’t always achieve these goals, but it’s not for lack of effort. 

And I believe the proof is in the actions not the words.

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12 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

And I believe the proof is in the actions not the words.

I agree. But that doesn’t contradict anything I wrote does it? 

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40 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

It isn't a child until it is viable outside the mother. Hope that helps you understand the difference. 

Everyone does not agree with that.

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7 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Everyone does not agree with that.

Yeah I know. 

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3 hours ago, NCCommish said:
13 hours ago, [scooter] said:

It seems like all the confusion could be cleared up if the two positions were called "Pro Innocent Life" and "Pro Death Penalty For The Guilty".

Or anti-choice and pro-choice. Which is far more accurate.  Prolife is a marketing scheme.

Every Pro-Life person is also Anti-Choice, but not every Anti-Choice person is Pro-Life.

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17 hours ago, IC FBGCav said:

Rectify:  thou shall not kill.

Doesn’t say that.  Translates to thou shall not murder.  

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5 hours ago, NCCommish said:

When I see children in Alabama living in 3rd world squalor and disease you're damn right I do. When I see the policies they champion that leave children hungry with no healthcare, inadequate  housing and deficient educations you're damn right I do. I dont care what they say I look at what they do. And what they do is heartbreaking , its immoral and yes it reeks of evil disregard for the human lives they claim to care so much about. So spare me the they aren't so bad shtick. Their actions are disgusting. They better hope the atheists are right or they got a real nasty surprise coming. 

If they are oh so caring and loving they need to find better representation of those feelings. 

I read this tripe and I wonder...were democrats EVER in charge of anything?   Sure seems like the horrible republicans have been in charge of so much for so long to get to this point.

 

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2 minutes ago, boots11234 said:
17 hours ago, IC FBGCav said:

Rectify:  thou shall not kill.

Doesn’t say that.  Translates to thou shall not murder.  

Not really. The modern-day concept of "murder" -- the unlawful and malicious killing of another human being -- did not exist 2000 years ago.

The Bible permitted several types of killings which today would be considered "murder"; on the other hand, the Bible condemned many types of non-deliberate killings which today would be described as a lesser crime (e.g., involuntary manslaughter).

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