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2019 College football thread - It's 2020, yo. Go to the new thread. (5 Viewers)

You know ... everyone says that only certain schools can ever achieve greatness in college football. The top of the SEC, Clemson, maybe the tops of the Big 10 and Big 12 ... but that seems to be as far as most people will take it.

My question is this: Clemson has not been in this club for very long -- how did they get a seat at this table, and is it something more schools can emulate?

Throughout much of the 1990s and 2000s, Clemson was typically a 4- or 5-loss squad who occasionally broke through to a low-teens ranking at season's end. They went 20 consecutive seasons (1991-2010) without winning 10 games, even including bowls. Dabo Swinney's squad lost the 2011 Meineke Car Care Bowl (!) to finish the season 6-7**.

So what happened?

And say Swinney suddenly leaves his post and goes off to live in a Tibetan monastery or something or is otherwise indisposed. Does the Clemson program just fall apart like a house of cards? Are these high-level programs cults of personality, dependent on single men like Saban and Swinney? Or does a program like Ohio State indicate that you can rotate through coaches and still stay elite***?

** It was Swinney's second full season as HC. I presume most of the players were still Tommy Bowden's recruits, but still -- Bowden's record as HC at the time was 19-15.

*** Man, what level of terrible coach would you have to have at Ohio State to run THAT program into the ground?

 
Doug B said:
And say Swinney suddenly leaves his post and goes off to live in a Tibetan monastery or something or is otherwise indisposed. Does the Clemson program just fall apart like a house of cards? Are these high-level programs cults of personality, dependent on single men like Saban and Swinney? Or does a program like Ohio State indicate that you can rotate through coaches and still stay elite***?

*** Man, what level of terrible coach would you have to have at Ohio State to run THAT program into the ground?
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To answer the last sentence...John Cooper.  I thought he was the best coach they've ever had, but others may disagree.

 
Tom Servo said:
To answer the last sentence...John Cooper.  I thought he was the best coach they've ever had, but others may disagree.
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:lol:   Cooper, at least from a bird's-eye view, wasn't that bad. Several 10-win seasons, Ohio State consistently making it into the Top-5 most regular seasons. I do notice that several times, his Buckeye teams reached the Top 5 but finished outside of the Top 10. Seems indicate a lot of unsatisfactory finishes -- losses to Michigan and/or losses in bowl games. And of course, going 14-10 over his last two seasons wasn't going to fly in Columbus.

...

Check out Luke Fickell's 2011 disaster. That's not so long ago ... do Ohio State fans even remember that name?

 
culdeus said:
So Clemson recruited more 5* players than the Big10, 12, and PAC10.  combined?  Jesus.
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Guess it depends on what recruiting rankings you look at.  On 247 I show 6 5* to Clemson.  3 5* to Big 10 (2 OSU, 1 Maryland).  3 PAC 12 ( 2 Oregon, 1 Washington), 1 BIG 12 (Texas).  Oregon could very well get 1 more announcing at All American game.

 
Tom Servo said:
I lived there for six years; I can understand the sentiment.  It sucks to live there. :coffee:
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Took a visit to Denison college in the spring of 1991.  Had to fly into Columbus and drive to the school.  Not the prettiest area of the world.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
What do you think would be on top of their pros/cons list that would put Columbus so far below a place like Clemson, SC, Baton Rouge or Tuscaloosa Alabama?  I've never been to any of these places, so can't really say, but its not an obvious answer to me.  Where would you expect them to want to live - someplace like LA or NYC?  These are for the most part extremely needy, coddled 17 year olds who are not accustomed to doing anything for themselves or finding their own way in life. At Ohio St., they're superstars among 60,000 undergrads and are guaranteed to get an opportunity to play in the NFL if they have what it takes.  
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Weather would be a factor for me.  Maybe I'm alone in that thought.  Also the women in south are way hotter than they are in the midwest so that would b e a factor.  Food is better too if you're into that kind of thing. I can name 5 creole dishes that are hallmarks of Baton Rouge.  What's the signature dish of Columbus?  

 
General Malaise said:
Weather would be a factor for me.  Maybe I'm alone in that thought.  Also the women in south are way hotter than they are in the midwest so that would b e a factor.  Food is better too if you're into that kind of thing. I can name 5 creole dishes that are hallmarks of Baton Rouge.  What's the signature dish of Columbus?  
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For years I tried to convince my boys to go to college somewhere in the south.  I could never figure out how to convey the hotness of the women being the reason while still maintaining appropriate fatherly appearances.

 
Bull Dozier said:
For years I tried to convince my boys to go to college somewhere in the south.  I could never figure out how to convey the hotness of the women being the reason while still maintaining appropriate fatherly appearances.
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Taking the family to San Diego over the holidays.  I told my 17 and 15 year old boys to just walk around and keep their eyes open.  The women there are otherworldly.  I believe the correct fatherly thing to do is give them this head's up advice.  :thumbup:

 
General Malaise said:
Taking the family to San Diego over the holidays.  I told my 17 and 15 year old boys to just walk around and keep their eyes open.  The women there are otherworldly.  I believe the correct fatherly thing to do is give them this head's up advice.  :thumbup:
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I'm not disagreeing with you.  Probably my own issues, but I always felt weirded out oggling co-eds that my kids should be oggling instead.

 
Bull Dozier said:
I'm not disagreeing with you.  Probably my own issues, but I always felt weirded out oggling co-eds that my kids should be oggling instead.
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Your stance is the proper one, no doubt.  My old man instilled a good ogling mentality in me early so for me, it's just natural to pass that admiration down.  The old guy is 75 and was pointing out hot lasses at the Kentucky Derby left and right.  Had to tell him to stop pointing.  :lmao:

 
General Malaise said:
Weather would be a factor for me.  Maybe I'm alone in that thought.  Also the women in south are way hotter than they are in the midwest so that would b e a factor.  Food is better too if you're into that kind of thing. I can name 5 creole dishes that are hallmarks of Baton Rouge.  What's the signature dish of Columbus?  
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My experience is different as to weather and women, but what does that matter really?  For a 17 year old 5 star kid with an opportunity to play football at Ohio State?  I really doubt weather and women are going to be major factors in the decision.  He's probably much more focused on the football experience and opportunity.  I'm not saying women aren't important to these  players, but there are 60,000 undergrads at Ohio State, so I expect most scholarship football players probably aren't too concerned about meeting pretty girls.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
My experience is different as to weather and women, but what does that matter really?  For a 17 year old 5 star kid with an opportunity to play football at Ohio State?  I really doubt weather and women are going to be major factors in the decision.  He's probably much more focused on the football experience and opportunity.  I'm not saying women aren't important to these  players, but there are 60,000 undergrads at Ohio State, so I expect most scholarship football players probably aren't too concerned about meeting pretty girls.
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Probably depends on where the recruit is from.  For a kid coming from the south?  Getting used to a midwest winter is no small thing.  From Minnesota, there have been more than one stories of professional athletes drafted to MN teams that had a hard time aclimating to the climate.  And these are guys making hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, to play here.  

For a kid from the midwest?  The enticement of nice year round weather might move the needle a little, but wouldn't be a deciding factor.

 
It's already been said, but tOSU sends guys to the NFL.  I think that is the goal of most 4-5 star kids.  If that would slow down for some reason, the great recruiting would slow down. :shrug:  Just like I'm sure OU having the last 2 Heisman winning QBs (and #1 draft picks) was a factor when Hurts was looking to transfer.  It's a hell of a marketing tool

 
WDIK2 said:
It's already been said, but tOSU sends guys to the NFL.  I think that is the goal of most 4-5 star kids.  If that would slow down for some reason, the great recruiting would slow down. :shrug:  Just like I'm sure OU having the last 2 Heisman winning QBs (and #1 draft picks) was a factor when Hurts was looking to transfer.  It's a hell of a marketing tool
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Best post in here,  it all starts and ends with the money.

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
If you had a 5 star kid who would you trust coaching them at the college level?  
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My opinion (for what its worth) is that these kids all come from such different backgrounds with different goals and experiences that its really impossible for anyone else to say what is best for them.  I know fans love to criticize a kid's decision to go to one school or another, but no fan has any rightful basis to judge a kid's decision. It seems obvious that many of these kids are looking at their position group and trying to gauge when they'll get a shot to play, whether they'll be asked to redshirt or maybe change positions.  I've read about kids not expecting to like a school, then being blown away by the training facilities, the assistant coaches in his position group or other factors we don't consider.  I also think we underestimate how much some of these kids want to stay close to home.

We had a kid in our community who committed to play basketball at Wisconsin. A year later, very late in the recruiting game, he decommitted and went to Kentucky.  People here howled in protest and expressed vile criticisms on social media, saying he was stupid and making a terrible mistake.  He played one year at Kentucky and is now getting regular minutes as a rookie in the NBA.  There is absolutely no doubt he made the right call.  It was obvious at the time, and incredible to me how many people thought they knew better than he and his family what was best for him.

 
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It’s Coaching...game and recruiting.
But the Program gets the Coach. 

The Coach can overcome the Program limits and vice versa, but the schools with both inevitably win. And either can be built.

 
General Malaise said:
Your stance is the proper one, no doubt.  My old man instilled a good ogling mentality in me early so for me, it's just natural to pass that admiration down.  The old guy is 75 and was pointing out hot lasses at the Kentucky Derby left and right.  Had to tell him to stop pointing.  :lmao:
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At his age, he long ago ceased giving a crap what anyone thinks.  Props to him.

 
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WDIK2 said:
But then the players have to live in Eugene.  :mellow:   Tom Herman kisses his players.  Does Cristobal do that?
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Have you been to Eugene?  There are far worse places in the world than Eugene.  Trees, rivers, hills, great breweries.  Close to ski slopes, close to the ocean, lots and lots of outdoor options at your disposal.  It would be a great place to get kissed from Cristobal, imo.

 

 
Tom Servo said:
Doug B said:
*** Man, what level of terrible coach would you have to have at Ohio State to run THAT program into the ground?
Click to expand...
To answer the last sentence...John Cooper.  I thought he was the best coach they've ever had, but others may disagree.
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No one can defend Coopers record against Michigan or in bowl games.... but even as bad as that was, the top players kept coming to OSU even during the later years of his tenure. 

Why?

Because his program sent over 25% of the players he recruited to the NFL. In his 11th season, and 2 years before he left OSU, he sent 69% of his class to the NFL (1998). 

I have lots of reasons to despise him, but he didn't come close to running the program to the ground. He just couldn't take it to an elite level.

He reminds me a lot of James Franklin. 

 
General Malaise said:
Have you been to Eugene?  There are far worse places in the world than Eugene.  Trees, rivers, hills, great breweries.  Close to ski slopes, close to the ocean, lots and lots of outdoor options at your disposal.  It would be a great place to get kissed from Cristobal, imo.

 
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Yes, several times.  But most of my time there has been spent in the dirtier parts.  Just the nature of my job.  And I'm just throwing shade.  I do like Oregon in general.  Just flew back from Portland this afternoon.

 
WDIK2 said:
Yes, several times.  But most of my time there has been spent in the dirtier parts.  Just the nature of my job.  And I'm just throwing shade.  I do like Oregon in general.  Just flew back from Portland this afternoon.
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Yeah, there are some real dumpy parts too.  And Springfield flat out sucks.  

But having lived and traveled around this country, I can think of a lot worse places to park yourself.  

Also, there is a lot regret for having spend 4 of my years in stupid Jackson, MS.  What a dumb idea that was. 

 
JaxBill said:
Yuuge news. Please tell me this means no more Gary Danielson.

@Ourand_SBJ: Shocker: CBS walks away from SEC negotiations. All signs point to ESPN/ABC picking up the package. SBJ has the details: https://sbjsbd.biz/2sPZjRQ
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Also read Disney may buy out the deal before it expires in ‘23. I personally love the 3:30 production outside the announcers...the intro especially.

 
Boise State vs Washington tomorrow?  Any chance they both can lose?  0-0 tie in regulation would be nice.

 
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Don't Noonan said:
Boise State vs Washington tomorrow?  Any chance they both can lose?  0-0 tie in regulation would be nice.
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I'm on Washington.   Their record is misleading and they have superior players at the majority of positions and a coach that has superior bowl game experience.

 
General Malaise said:
Yeah, there are some real dumpy parts too.  And Springfield flat out sucks.  

But having lived and traveled around this country, I can think of a lot worse places to park yourself.  

Also, there is a lot regret for having spend 4 of my years in stupid Jackson, MS.  What a dumb idea that was. 
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You wouldn't be who you are today without those 4 years in MS.   That being said,  Jackson?   Wtf?  Jackson? 

 
TripItUp said:
I'm on Washington.   Their record is misleading and they have superior players at the majority of positions and a coach that has superior bowl game experience.
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I get it, but Washington is disappointed to be playing in Vegas Bowl and Boise St will be ramped up.  I like Boise St outright.

 
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